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Unread 15 Apr 2006, 10:58   #1
GundyRR
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Stupid Login Questions..

What is the point of this bs? Half the time you can't even read the god damn lettering or theres to much circle shit in the way. We have a username and a password why do we have to ****ing answer to the wheel of fortune each god damn time we have to sign in?
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Unread 15 Apr 2006, 11:05   #2
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Re: Stupid Login Questions..

we've all already had a moan about that mate, check here
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Unread 15 Apr 2006, 12:25   #3
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Re: Stupid Login Questions..

To answer his actuall question its to make it harder for people to use a 'bot' to run their account(s)
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Unread 15 Apr 2006, 14:24   #4
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Re: Stupid Login Questions..

Quote:
Originally Posted by GundyRR
What is the point of this bs? Half the time you can't even read the god damn lettering or theres to much circle shit in the way. We have a username and a password why do we have to ****ing answer to the wheel of fortune each god damn time we have to sign in?
Bot stopper. Pretty effective ain't it?

If a human has to actually think abit to get in, it kind of makes it rather hard for a bot :-)

It's not that hard, I usually get in first time, sometimes second. and before anyone says or suggests it: No, PATeam are not excempt from having to do them! We log in just the same way you do!
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Unread 15 Apr 2006, 16:04   #5
Ramihyn
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Re: Stupid Login Questions..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marv
If a human has to actually think abit to get in, it kind of makes it rather hard for a bot :-)
As "computers" and humans arent of the same "kind", this general assumption is wrong.
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Unread 15 Apr 2006, 19:11   #6
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Re: Stupid Login Questions..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramihyn
As "computers" and humans arent of the same "kind", this general assumption is wrong.

Erm... Not entirely true.

The imaging makes it very difficult for the bot to get a definite interpretation of what the question is asking, whereas it's still much easier for humans to just read diagonally(or use something other than logic) and figure out what the question is asking.

Yes, there are the occasional questions with little heart symbols instead of mathmatical signs, but the questions are for the most part alright to answer. As I said in the other thread, if a minor inconvenience keeps the game mostly bot free, then that's one little thing that I'm quite willing to deal with.
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Unread 16 Apr 2006, 21:28   #7
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Re: Stupid Login Questions..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidly
Erm... Not entirely true.
I object. It is "entirely" true.

Humans and computers+software are very different and to conclude that something has to be even harder for a computer because it is difficult for a human, is simply fundamentally flawed logic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidly
The imaging makes it very difficult for the bot to get a definite interpretation of what the question is asking, whereas it's still much easier for humans to just read diagonally(or use something other than logic) and figure out what the question is asking.
Thats something completely different and has to do with the common misconceptions about image recognition. Do a Hough-transformation and use the result in chain code representation and it doesnt matter if your rendered chars are in any way rotated.

Using little hearts as replacements for multiplication signs is even worse. I mean ... how do you think a software "knows" that a certain graphical description of an object means "multiply"? - It does so by a human telling it what it means (unless you use neuronal networks and let the software learn by itself but that wouldnt work well in this case). So for any trained computer software it doesnt matter if you use "*" or "<3" as multiplication sign - the "added" confusion is just at the part of the humans. Either the programmer or any single person trying to log in

Last edited by Ramihyn; 16 Apr 2006 at 21:35.
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Unread 16 Apr 2006, 21:47   #8
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Re: Stupid Login Questions..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramihyn
I object. It is "entirely" true.

Humans and computers+software are very different and to conclude that something has to be even harder for a computer because it is difficult for a human, is simply fundamentally flawed logic.
I don't think so. Computers cannot use emotion or 'common sense' without it being specifically coded into them {AI anyone?} Irrelevant to the point of the login questions at hand however.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramihyn
Thats something completely different and has to do with the common misconceptions about image recognition. Do a Hough-transformation and use the result in chain code representation and it doesnt matter if your rendered chars are in any way rotated.
The rotation was but one example. Combine it with a random square, line, circle or other such little bit on top of or merging with a letter, and all of a sudden it becomes that much more difficult. Code would have to be put in to a bot to accomodate for most letter flaws in order to 'recognize' the question, and thus give an answer to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramihyn
Using little hearts as replacements for multiplication signs is even worse. I mean ... how do you think a software "knows" that a certain graphical description of an object means "multiply"? - It does so by a human telling it what it means (unless you use neuronal networks and let the software learn by itself but that wouldnt work well in this case). So for any trained computer software it doesnt matter if you use "*" or "<3" as multiplication sign - the "added" confusion is just at the part of the humans. Either the programmer or any single person trying to log in
Sorry... I didn't realize my comment endorsed those little hearts. I didn't think it did. I don't like those little hearts. I really don't It's a minor but and that's why refresh is sometimes your new best friend with the occasional borked question {or, at least, it's my new best friend! }
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Unread 17 Apr 2006, 01:24   #9
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Re: Stupid Login Questions..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidly
I don't think so. Computers cannot use emotion or 'common sense' without it being specifically coded into them {AI anyone?} Irrelevant to the point of the login questions at hand however.
Also irrelevant to what i wrote and to what i commented on.

The methods i mentioned to counter artificial rotation of objects are the only additional thing needed to beat the current anti-bot login stuff. Everything else was already described in the sources and description nearly 4 years ago when i first broke the anti-bot login.
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Unread 17 Apr 2006, 18:47   #10
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Re: Stupid Login Questions..

I need to read my 10 year old goegraphy book. Capital of Bulgaria took some time to remember, Thailand was even harder :/ and imagine when im drunk and theese mathquestions appear. Its hard to see if its + or * etc

but ah well, guess im just stupid
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