[Discuss] The Removal of the Prelaunch option

[Jackal2112]

For the last couple of days whenever I had a moment to think about Planetarion, I have been wondering why Playing Planetarion has become such a majorly exhausting and overly time consuming and frustrating game. I think I found the answer for me. Because I don't know however if people would agree with my 'answer' I would like to discuss it in here;

"removing prelaunch, or limiting it severerly making prelaunch only available for lets say +2 ticks, will give people more sleep, a healthier real life and will mean better night activity for alliances and thus more defense, as people are bound to have to come online to launch anyways. Also, it will reward those who do bother to come online (and not just launch when they go to sleep and set it +2), because they have better chances to actually land attacks, as most defense will be launched early evenings as well"

I admit a rather lengthy statement to discuss, but I wanted to give it a shot anyways.

I say 'fk prelaunch'. Whose with me?

[Kal]

hows does limitng prelaunch result in more sleep? - it means i would have to get up to attack as well as getting up when smsed to defend.

[Appocomaster]

The point is that people would either be forced to get up to attack, and then could defend at the same time (no one apart from 2-3 alliances generally SMSs people to wake them up alliance wise, it's generally gal mates), OR launch times are earlier in the evening, so those that can stay up later (lo Americans ) would benefit more, but the majority of incoming would start nearer the end of "prime time" in the evening

[Jackal2112]

Kal, seriously, when I read your message my mouth dropped open from shock. You sure you are a PA player?

[SilverSmoke]

I haven't played any round that included pre-launching but to me it sounds like disabling one of the most charming things that I remember this game for.

Getting up at some insane time with your buddies in war, fighting the sleep, people coming online just before the time of launch, it's a feeling you have to experience to understand what I mean. I am sure lots of people do recognize this.

Edit: loads of people pressing the launch button at the same time in the damn middle of the night, people getting out of their bed secretly while they promised their partner to not play this game anymore, the feeling of unity at the second of launch, the idiots who just can't go to bed and stay awake untill the launch lands...man, right now, I am missing planetarion as it once was.

[Gate]

I disagree, I think prelaunching is fine, as it does allow newer and less active players to get in with the more accepted launch times and means people can sleep plenty and be up in time for a jgp to see if a recall is needed.

It gives newer players a chance, whilst more active players will still have the advantage from, for instance, getting up in order to recall/relaunch if there is def; thus a greater chance of landing attacks. I think the gaps we've seen between the likes of 1up/eXilition/ToT and the other alliances proves that activity still pays off and doesn't somehow devalue how 'hardcore' said alliances are.

[Kargool]

I think the prelaunch button is okay. But launching when online is still a much better thing to do.

[wakey]

if you had asked this question in the first week I would have agreed with you, in fact I raised the issue with kal at the start of the round. However by the end of the round I had changed my mind on it and alot of that has to be due to embracing the more attacking nature of the round. I dont know about other alliances but at F-Crew we have always promoted the Defence First Attack Second pov and that conflicted with the current rounds attacking priority. However once you adapted to the differnt style pre launched added to the the enjoyment of the round for most of the smaller alliances, yes they were getting a shed load of incoming, more than they could generally cover (but that would have been the same even without prelaunch tbh) but it allowed the smaller alliances to hit larger targets than they would have otherwise which allowed any losses to be covered and made the game more enjoyable for all. Its not something I'd ever have thought I'd say as I'm as defensive as they come but this games its most fun when its attack attack attack and pre launch promotes this.

Also Prelaunch has one fantastic undocumented features for the less hardcore players. One of the most demoralising aspects of the game is coming back from being afk to find you have had a kill fleet sent at you and youve not only lost roids but your ability to get roids back as you have lost your ships. Prelaunch allows you to set your ships to head away any time you may be gone for more than 7 hours as you can set it to a +11 launch and even if an attack lands these ships wont then take part in the battle

Also connected to this is the fact that you can send ships away without leaving yourself shipless for future ticks because it takes no ticks to get them back home. Its also a safeguard when scanning because even if its close to the tick you arent going to end up miss recalling

Finally its probally only going to help the larger alliances, smaller alliance members often wont be around in much larger numbers than they are now and the larger alliances generally disallow prelaunch anyway so they wont get that much advantage either

[Kal]

Originally Posted by wakey

lots of stuff

[Makhil]

Originally Posted by wakey

Also Prelaunch has one fantastic undocumented features for the less hardcore players. One of the most demoralising aspects of the game is coming back from being afk to find you have had a kill fleet sent at you and youve not only lost roids but your ability to get roids back as you have lost your ships. Prelaunch allows you to set your ships to head away any time you may be gone for more than 7 hours as you can set it to a +11 launch and even if an attack lands these ships wont then take part in the battle

This is indeed the best feature of the prelaunch. Rather than keeping the prelaunch system just for that purpose, why not implement it as a real option :
on the mission page in the 'base section' put a button (maybe radio button) DOCK FLEET: the ships in base can't fight and can't be attacked - UNDOCK FLEET : the ships can fight and die.
When you choose DOCK or UNDOCK it would be effective the following tick.

As much as prelaunch attack looks useless to me, prelaunch defense looks essential : when you're online and see your gal mate with incs eta7 but you have to go out. I don't see it as a prelaunch though, rather as a way to set the speed of your fleet. The difference would be if you send your fleet eta 5 + 2, it is sent instantly but will slow down on arrival It means the following tick your fleet is at ETA 4 + 2, then 3 +2... 0+2 << that's when your fleet slows down to match the ETA of the attacker (ofc it can fight only at 0+0)

[Ultimate Newbie]

I find myself agreeing with Wakey (!!!). Also, as a DC having people who can send prelaunched defence is wonderful, such as Corsairs at ETA 7+2 to wtfpwn some Poor Cath ('lo furball ), or even if tis just one tick with Arrowheads on FR etc. Having prelaunched fleets makes it so much easier for people to send def, then go to sleep for a bit and then come back to recall at ETA 4 etc.

Prelaunched attacks (of which i have considerable experience being a Visionary ) have the inherrant disadvantage of showing up in a JGP. Most active planets JGP themselves with their returning fleets (provided they didnt got all out for Jammers ofc), and would thus get heads up on potentially large incoming. Whilst it makes it frustrating for them, as they dont know when it will actually come inbound, there is always the potential for a retal fleet (or six) to be sent as that planet would soon have its fleet out - and thus un/under protected.

I think prelaunch is a good thing.

[furball]

Hello Lord Dain. I'd like to say long time no hear, but

Welcome to PaX. Our loving players will guide you to your planet. Please pay attention to the changes that occured when we moved to this 'new' game, and remember their benefits whenever you think back to the old days.

We shall now depart for a new round, cruising at 4500 players.

We apologise for the turbulence we had between Rounds 5 and 9, we accept that the Captain was at fault. With the flight crew/PA Team now running your journey, we hope that you will find things far more smoother than before.



(time passes)



The rose-tinted glasses light has come on: please remove your rose-tinted glasses during this time between rounds, as they may present a hazard to this flight's safety.


Lord Dain, please don't crash our plane

[I am Idler]

How about simply removing the prelaunch or limiting the +eta and instead give free planets the option of a full prelaunch.

Makes newbies more competetive, might help in reducing the current prime time LT, and everybody wins

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally Posted by I am Idler

might help in reducing the current prime time LT, and everybody wins

Well tbh, the current Prime Time LT is in essense a good thing for me - as it means that i only need to be around for 4 hours at most, and still make it look like i am active, dedicated player .

Furthermore, if you remove the prime time, it means people will have to be on for like 10 hours per day to cover all the waves of incoming - which only means that the strain and emphasis on activity is much higher. presently, the emphasis is on activity during this Prime Time. Are you suggesting that to do well players must be on all day/night?

[noah02]

Only time I use Pre-launch is during times of dire incoming instead of sending them away then recalling them and waiting a tick or 2 till there back is a much appreciated thing.
As for attacks I just get up to launch but I must admit to pre launching once or twice when I have had a hard days work and late night planetarion and I can't keep my eyes open
Its an excellent feature that should never be removed or shortened to much.

[Forest]

Prelaunch is one of the best features to come about in PAX.

It allows the less hardcore player a chance to attack. It doesnt limit the more hardcore players (they ahve to be on for launch/recall etc to get a decet planet. No-one ever won a round using prelaunch).

And wakey, im not 100% sure, but didnt they fix the prelaunch bug for next round, so prelaunched ships DO fight?

[Appocomaster]

Originally Posted by Forest

And wakey, im not 100% sure, but didnt they fix the prelaunch bug for next round, so prelaunched ships DO fight?

It's not a bug :P.
It's not planned to be changed next round, as most people seemed to be happy with it this round. I once used the fact myself to prelaunch for 11 ticks and defend a random planet so I could keep my fleet while away for a day or two

[_Kila_]

can somebody please explain to me how prelaunching limits people's sleep?
waking up in the middle of the night to launch is ofc fun and lets you offer defence BUT some people who are playing less actively don't need to do that... tbh this kinda scares newer players away as it means they have to wake up in the middle of the night to attack or defend.

[wakey]

Originally Posted by _Kila_

can somebody please explain to me how prelaunching limits people's sleep?
waking up in the middle of the night to launch is ofc fun and lets you offer defence BUT some people who are playing less actively don't need to do that... tbh this kinda scares newer players away as it means they have to wake up in the middle of the night to attack or defend.

From the OP pov it probally does allow him more sleep as there would be more people around at night to cover defence, this would mean he could go and get some sleep knowing there were others handling it.

Ofc for most people it wouldnt allow more sleep as they would now have to get up at various points in the night to send attacks

[Jackal2112]

I am not playing this game for the amusement of noobs and inactives, but for my own. I think any active player agrees on removing prelaunch - just to bad there seem to be less active players then semi active ones who think the luxury of a 'lazy' prelaunch system should not be removed.

On the matter of 'saving' fleets using the prelaunch option; this is clearly a bug that should be removed and an option should be added for people to 'dock' their fleets; it is fkin funny to see the PA admin team post here that, since people like prelaunching to save their fleet, the feature will stay.

come on...

[themast]

jackal i totaly dissagree with everything you said. I myself have used the prelaunch system when i have had a rough day and cant be fu*ked getting up at night. What about people who cant get up at night becuase of there parents?????????

So removeing ther prelaunch would make PA worse

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Jackal2112

I am not playing this game for the amusement of noobs and inactives, but for my own. I think any active player agrees on removing prelaunch - just to bad there seem to be less active players then semi active ones who think the luxury of a 'lazy' prelaunch system should not be removed.

On the matter of 'saving' fleets using the prelaunch option; this is clearly a bug that should be removed and an option should be added for people to 'dock' their fleets; it is fkin funny to see the PA admin team post here that, since people like prelaunching to save their fleet, the feature will stay.

come on...

You say you dont play the game for "the amusement of noobs and inactives", well tbh from my own pov your the type of shortsighted, selfish idiot I wish wasnt playing this game. PA's future relies on playing numbers, something it struggles with due to the fact it is RL friendly anyway. Removing one of the few features that makes it more accessable for people with a RL would damage the games viabilty. How much fun do you think it would be if the game had 1k players and just 10 alliance, how long do you you think the players in alliance 8-10 would stick aroundif they went from being fairly successful to being bashed as the easiest targets

Your enjoyment is infact CONNECTED to the enjoyment of these players your looking down on. I'll use my trusted Africain Game Reserve analogy to highlight my point.

In a game reserve you have 3 main catogories of life in them, your preditors (lions ect), your prey (antalopes, zebras ect) and your Planets. For all these to thrieve theres needs to be a balance, a balance that sees their being fewer preditors than prey, and fewer prey than plants. If any of these get out of balance it throws those above them in the chain into turmoil. Too many preditors for the amount of prey means not enough food which results in the little food being wiped out and the preditors then not having any food, too much prey and too many plants are eaten and this means the prey has nothing to eat which in turn means the preditors dont ect ect

Now the principles of this analogy are the same in PA, the same balance needs struck between the top middle and bottom people. Without a lot of small players the middle players cant thrieve and the top players struggle. Hence the hardcore players need the new players.

Some people at the upper end of the games food chain need to realise this and stop looking down on the new players as much as they hold the future of this game in their hands more than you actually do.

[MAdnRisKy]

Amen Wakey

[ChubbyChecker]

Prelaunch is a good feature. As has already been mentioned the good players don't use it anyway so removing it would only hinder the noobs among us. What's the point in that?

[noah02]

Jackal I can be online 24 hours a day and i still use pre launch at dire times of tiredness or spending time with my daughter and missus.
Not everyone is HARDCORE.
And the only reason I can think that you dont like ppl saving there fleets is coz u want to steal them or proper bash n00bs.
If you that desparate to kill an enemy then do the beautiful tactic of fleet catching.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by noah02

Jackal I can be online 24 hours a day and i still use pre launch at dire times of tiredness or spending time with my daughter and missus.
Not everyone is HARDCORE.
And the only reason I can think that you dont like ppl saving there fleets is coz u want to steal them or proper bash n00bs.
If you that desparate to kill an enemy then do the beautiful tactic of fleet catching.

If you want PA to only be for the HARDCORE wasting their nightsleep for a game, you wouldn't have 1k players left. I for one won't get up at 5:55 just to send an attack. I'm a semi-inactive player and tbh, if pre-launch would be removed, I doubt I'd attack at all

[Tietäjä]

I would appreciate if I saw the real ETA of the prelaunch on the jump probe. Have you ever staid a night awake waiting for those dozen fleets, all set on prelaunch before the genesis, to actually launch?

[themast]

if that happend then you would be taking a big weapon away from the attacker as the defender would probley have loads of def by that time

[noah02]

Originally Posted by Tietäjä

I would appreciate if I saw the real ETA of the prelaunch on the jump probe. Have you ever staid a night awake waiting for those dozen fleets, all set on prelaunch before the genesis, to actually launch?

I waited 6 hours once
Work didnt like me the next day

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by noah02

Work didnt like me the next day

You still seeing work or did you both break up?

[noah02]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

You still seeing work or did you both break up?

Am in the army I got no choice
Just nice to have internet in my office

[Proxi]

Originally Posted by Tietäjä

I would appreciate if I saw the real ETA of the prelaunch on the jump probe. Have you ever staid a night awake waiting for those dozen fleets, all set on prelaunch before the genesis, to actually launch?

I know the feeling well, and i really don't like it.

[barney]

Originally Posted by Tietäjä

I would appreciate if I saw the real ETA of the prelaunch on the jump probe. Have you ever staid a night awake waiting for those dozen fleets, all set on prelaunch before the genesis, to actually launch?

no, because this would remove some of the oppertunitys to scare ppl and annoy them by prelaunching at them over night just for the hell of it

more seriously tho, also removes the option of fake prelaunches on big planets that you know will be scanning themselves (or will have someone else doing it), 100-200k fi incomings expected tends to make ppl sit up and notice. possibly lessening defence for other planets in the ally.

[Appocomaster]

Originally Posted by barney

no, because this would remove some of the oppertunitys to scare ppl and annoy them by prelaunching at them over night just for the hell of it

more seriously tho, also removes the option of fake prelaunches on big planets that you know will be scanning themselves (or will have someone else doing it), 100-200k fi incomings expected tends to make ppl sit up and notice. possibly lessening defence for other planets in the ally.

Indeed. You get 2 alliances you don't like. You have a little mini-attack on one of their weaker gals, and all your inactive members prelaunch (+11) the big planets in one alliance and go to sleep. Then you happily hit the other one

[Tietäjä]

Originally Posted by Appocomaster

Indeed. You get 2 alliances you don't like. You have a little mini-attack on one of their weaker gals, and all your inactive members prelaunch (+11) the big planets in one alliance and go to sleep. Then you happily hit the other one

So, if the prelaunch button is made to give less active planets their ability to play the game less active, it simultaneously makes things harder for more active planets -- depending on their alliance, my current alliance, at that time, was not able to provide the luxury of jump probing me a few times after requested. Well, if that's the function of it.

[ChubbyChecker]

I'd rather prelaunched ships were removed from the jpg, at least until the tick they launch (so eta 9 for FR/DE, etc...)

[furball]

Originally Posted by ChubbyChecker

I'd rather prelaunched ships were removed from the jpg, at least until the tick they launch (so eta 9 for FR/DE, etc...)

That's an interesting idea (making them show the tick they launch) but I like it the current way. That was, there is still more of a reward at least in launching the tick that you need to, rather than setting it at midnight to launch at 5am, etc.

Originally Posted by Tietäjä[/quote

I would appreciate if I saw the real ETA of the prelaunch on the jump probe. Have you ever staid a night awake waiting for those dozen fleets, all set on prelaunch before the genesis, to actually launch?

Yes, I stayed up until 6am once, just for my attackers to launch.

[Fungi]

Why remove a feature simply because you and a small number of people dislike it? If it annoys you that badly, just don't use it.

It's not that hard to just ignore the sexy dropdown menus.

As mentioned before quite eloquently by hamster PA needs new players to ensure that everyone gets more rounds in the future. If you put off the new players, whether from lack of user-friendly interface or whatever, PA will not survive. I've spoken to some of the pure newbies of PA in this round, and they have said that they will not come back, simply because the game is too 'hardcore-player' orientated, i.e. it does little to attract the CASUAL gamer.

In perspective, a single round of PA - typically 10 weeks - does not give the casual gamer the time to get accustomed to the game mechanics. More often than not, this casual gamer will most likely get hit by bashers close to the bash-limit. This is not fun. A casual gamer will want to pick up and play something which will be enjoyable. Oh, I log in after just a day offline, and find I lost roids, structures and oh, all my fleet. How fun. A casual gamer will NOT be inspired to say YEAH GREAT, LET'S PAY TO GET BASHED. Many of these players PA is trying to attract simply will not pay MMORPG prices for some figures and some text.

Prelaunch is one way of helping out the less hardcore players among us. If you don't like it, don't use it.

Baka.

[teknik]

without prelaunch Xan would suck too. you would only ever get 5-6 hours sleep before you had to get up and jgp. last round i needed to prelaunch an attack or 2 per week just to get a decent amount of sleep! and sometimes you have unavoidable commitments that mean you have to prelaunch or not attack at all.

[Ginga]

I have to say that pre-launch is a load of toss. Takes away part of the game. It takes dedication to wake at 4am to launch. I think removing it would make the game better by making it harder.

[furball]

Originally Posted by Ginga

I have to say that pre-launch is a load of toss. Takes away part of the game. It takes dedication to wake at 4am to launch. I think removing it would make the game better by making it harder.

Makes it harder, meaning that fewer people are able to succeed at it, driving away more and more players as only a 'hardcore' base is left. The people who don't leave on the spot, but try to stick it out while not getting up at nights, grow less and get fewer roids.

Originally Posted by wakey

You say you dont play the game for "the amusement of noobs and inactives", well tbh from my own pov your the type of shortsighted, selfish idiot I wish wasnt playing this game. PA's future relies on playing numbers, something it struggles with due to the fact it is RL friendly anyway. Removing one of the few features that makes it more accessable for people with a RL would damage the games viabilty. How much fun do you think it would be if the game had 1k players and just 10 alliance, how long do you you think the players in alliance 8-10 would stick aroundif they went from being fairly successful to being bashed as the easiest targets

Your enjoyment is infact CONNECTED to the enjoyment of these players your looking down on. I'll use my trusted Africain Game Reserve analogy to highlight my point.

In a game reserve you have 3 main catogories of life in them, your preditors (lions ect), your prey (antalopes, zebras ect) and your Planets. For all these to thrieve theres needs to be a balance, a balance that sees their being fewer preditors than prey, and fewer prey than plants. If any of these get out of balance it throws those above them in the chain into turmoil. Too many preditors for the amount of prey means not enough food which results in the little food being wiped out and the preditors then not having any food, too much prey and too many plants are eaten and this means the prey has nothing to eat which in turn means the preditors dont ect ect

Now the principles of this analogy are the same in PA, the same balance needs struck between the top middle and bottom people. Without a lot of small players the middle players cant thrieve and the top players struggle. Hence the hardcore players need the new players.

Some people at the upper end of the games food chain need to realise this and stop looking down on the new players as much as they hold the future of this game in their hands more than you actually do.

[bwtmc]

If it was removed, i don't think anyone would particularly suffer. Individuals and alliances would adapt, every alliance has players that can't be on at four and five in the morning. Attacks would be run earlier too, defence would be committed a bit earlier..

I quite like the idea of removing it on a personal level. I recognise i'd gain more from playing actively and probably be more likely to get defence because the spread of incomings would be over a much longer time period.

Really though, this affects the game on a much wider level. For the community, the new players and (not just small, but every alliance has players who pre-launch on occasion) all alliances it has to stay.

Edit:

I'm quite wondering at this point, why on earth i just applied for a summer night-hours job with no access from 11:30-7:30.

[noah02]

Originally Posted by bwtmc

Edit:

I'm quite wondering at this point, why on earth i just applied for a summer night-hours job with no access from 11:30-7:30.

So you can pre-launch ?

[kamikaze69]

You guyz are missing the point, if you remove the pre-launch option out of the game then alliance attacks cannot be as co-ordinated as before therefore making the game more enjoyable to everyone else.

I don't know about you guyz, but I hate BST players because there are soooo many of them and being GMT+12 means that I am on for an entire day defending attacks that my alliance m8s suffer and never having back-up for it.

Removing pre-launch MIGHT open the possibility for one timezone alliances - which could offset the whole attack co-ordination issue however suffering majorly on defense- and giving the opportunity for those players that choose not to be in an alliance in small gals to still enjoy the game.

eg. Your Gal is a small one, you are the only one in your alliance online atm because you are on the other side of the world and you have 15 planets in your gal under attack and you have 10k Zik FR incs yourself. Your alliance can't help you, because no-one is online, and since your gal is small enough as it is you are stranded.

That is the point of this discussion, and I think it is a very good point, I say pre-launch at least needs to be reduced (maybe not necessarily taken away) for what I think will be a more enjoyable R14.

PS: Thank you for the time you have spent reading my book.

[Nadar]

I never liked prelaunch in the first place. It made people lazy, simple as that. People had no problem getting up at night to launch a fleet before prelaunch were introduced, but suddenly when it were introduced many couldn't get up at nights anymore.

[cypher]

Originally Posted by Nadar

I never liked prelaunch in the first place. It made people lazy, simple as that. People had no problem getting up at night to launch a fleet before prelaunch were introduced, but suddenly when it were introduced many couldn't get up at nights anymore.

that's so true actually. Besides that you get lots more incoming cuz any fool can set his fleet to +6 making it alot harder for active people trying to enjoy the game and alot easier for noobs who only play daytime anyways (not to mention it's easier for escortfleet users, as they can just login 2 hours apart from eachother... )

[furball]

Originally Posted by cypher

that's so true actually. Besides that you get lots more incoming cuz any fool can set his fleet to +6 making it alot harder for active people trying to enjoy the game and alot easier for noobs who only play daytime anyways (not to mention it's easier for escortfleet users, as they can just login 2 hours apart from eachother... )

So basically you want your life made easier?

[noah02]

Originally Posted by furball

So basically you want your life made easier?

Trust me hes lazy, was hard to get him out of bed at 4am to beg for some ships eta 6
I remember that ONE time you let me down cypher

[TheShadowMan]

Would like to make one suggestion that bugged the shit out of me last round.

When you jumpgate a target, can the jumpgate include the prelaunch etas on def fleets.

Same for when you jumpgate yourself to see if you have any incomings.

Oh btw I think pre launch is good! Although I can be nostaligic about the old 03.59:59 launches!

tsm

[wakey]

I'm not sure about that tbh

While it can be annoying waiting around for it to launch, showing the actual eta would give the defenders another bonus on top of actually knowing an attacks coming and by doing this you also remove the ability to use prelaunch tactically.