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Unread 20 Feb 2016, 23:24   #201
Raven
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Yesterday ult were being escorted by random out of tag planets, hr, heroes, ast. If you can't break us alone and need to rely on hr and heroes to escort you then this is a sad day for Ultores. Faceless stand alone, we don't need support tags. Like you using ast as a spill over for ult. Planets with only xan fi that you use to crash on your enemies and defend with oot. It's just a bit sad.
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Unread 20 Feb 2016, 23:25   #202
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buly View Post
eksero noted, my bad with the VGN part. I read from somewhere here that they are, assuming ppl were seeing them as part of inc every day. Sorry for mixing in 10 more planets on your side.



After 64 rounds of PA, ND have seen quite much inc. We have actually seen inc on a whole different scale than Ult ever has, as we played prior to PAX. And we have gotten our fair slammings later on too, but not managed as well as you guys. All hats off for that.

There's alot more behind this than "Ult not winning". But yes, it's a part for sure. We've seen other tags set similar goals vs. others in rounds, maybe even Ultores have done this? Not as a block, but as ally. From ND part, we can't win due to our activity, so our aims are different. Ultores have noted this inactivity and like pecking on us.....alot more than p3n, FL, CT etc. You guys did it the most, even mixing in while we were warring bows. That's why it's very logic where we stand.

And as stated earlier, you have never been alone. You have had your support tags and out of tag planets right from the start, and bows for most part of the round. In a sense, this can be even viewed as a counterblock.

EDIT: Apparently left out the o there in counterblock, not bad typo I'd say
You are obviously having a hard time to see our alliance from the view point of other alliances.
The last two rounds, according to stats(if i didnt calc it wrong), ND has sent out 5100ish fleets.
Now, how many fleets have ND sent at at CT/p3ng(around 20% of the targets avaible out there)?
175 fleets, in total, combined, in two(!) rounds.
175 fleets out of 5000+ is not a lot.

If the goal of ND is not to support CT/p3ng or stop Ult from winning, then please, tell me what it is.
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Unread 20 Feb 2016, 23:25   #203
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Deny it all you want, but I see the patterns when I dc. Ult is more like tag of 90.
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Unread 20 Feb 2016, 23:26   #204
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven
Yesterday ult were being escorted by random out of tag planets, hr, heroes, ast. If you can't break us alone and need to rely on hr and heroes to escort you then this is a sad day for Ultores. Faceless stand alone, we don't need support tags. Like you using ast as a spill over for ult. Planets with only xan fi that you use to crash on your enemies and defend with oot. It's just a bit sad.
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Unread 20 Feb 2016, 23:34   #205
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
"support tags"
Clearly you have not paid much attention. Getting 1 fleet from a tag not in your block does not mean they are supporting Ult.

If I remember correctly you used to be a planet that only built defships and no pods to help ND. Yet ND HC(Rap) claims when Ult does it, it is cheating.

Having allies does not mean you coordinate attacks, a block does joint attacks against another alliance to beat it. Otherwise most of the alliances on your side of the block, went into the round blocked up. Also when Ult hit nd for the first time Rap was involved in creating an active block against Ult already.

P3nguins stated 8 out of tag planets for Ult, you claim out of tag planets for Ult too. Please share the coords with me instead of making up excuses.
Astatores is not an Ult supporttag? Common....I can list coords of oot but cba, we see them every day. This is as common knowledge in PA as that 1+1 = 2 in the world. No need to deny it. And tbh, I see nothing wrong in it. Point is, you're not that 60 man tag alone. I think I've also seen admittance in earlier threads of Ult coming allied or naped into round. Nothing wrong with that either. PA so small these days that it comes natural that allies stick to same relations. PA used to be like this before allianceranks were introduced.

Defplanets are defplanets, it's not cheating. And no, I've never played like that, it might be bull you're referring too but I dunno if he did that either. That's all fair imo. Ppl play and support their ally in their way, I think it's a very good thing when allies coordinate like that. Hats off to Ultores again for having a great structured setup.

I have nfi when you talk about Rap forming early block vs. you....I heard no mention of even hitting Ult before you guys came at us. I've been back two rounds now, seeing you guys come at us early on both rounds. Same thing most rounds I've played, you have some (prolly many) players there in tag that always like hitting ND. And I understand that too, that's common sense bottomfeeding for easy roids which ND unfortionately are with this inactivity. ND being your choice as you have good relations with HR and Bows. But this is why we stand where we are, hopefully it doesn't always have to be this way. Maybe you guys should stick to hitting your competitors right from the start?

As for allies supporting Ultores, one difference between our block and your block is we launch equal. On your side, first bows, then Ult. Clear defsuck. Nothing wrong from Ultores side in this, I more wonder why other tags are agreeing to play like this.
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Unread 20 Feb 2016, 23:36   #206
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Should we just ask appocomaster to confirm the fleet movements. I'm sure that will clear matters. I take it all here are game?
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Unread 20 Feb 2016, 23:43   #207
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buly
I have nfi when you talk about Rap forming early block vs. you....I heard no mention of even hitting Ult before you guys came at us. I've been back two rounds now, seeing you guys come at us early on both rounds. Same thing most rounds I've played, you have some (prolly many) players there in tag that always like hitting ND. And I understand that too, that's common sense bottomfeeding for easy roids which ND unfortionately are with this inactivity. ND being your choice as you have good relations with HR and Bows. But this is why we stand where we are, hopefully it doesn't always have to be this way. Maybe you guys should stick to hitting your competitors right from the start?
We can count on one hand the amount of red days ND had this round before the block vs ult started, surely if we were 'coming' at you, it would be a lot worse?
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Unread 20 Feb 2016, 23:46   #208
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Surely this must be one of the most insightfull post on quite sometine. Lets hope Krypton and everyone else who cried for a change to the tag sizes read this and take note.
This statement makes no sense in coordination to the game. For example, If all alliance tags were reduced to 40 then each ultores crash would count for more...

Ergo you are once again being a moron.

That said, i do agree with you on the point a lower tag limit could...i repeat COULD have an adverse effect...if a tag like ult continues to have additional planets fight for them once they are losing.
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Unread 20 Feb 2016, 23:46   #209
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Re: R65. Who wins?

I have screenshots of said inc if anyone is interested. Come find me on irc.
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Unread 20 Feb 2016, 23:50   #210
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
Wait wait wait. Was it not you that was pathetic enough to add my phonenumber to the P3nguins callbot? Or which P3nguin was that again.
I called you every time i came on tg just to give your life meaning
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Unread 20 Feb 2016, 23:51   #211
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven View Post
Yesterday ult were being escorted by random out of tag planets, hr, heroes, ast. If you can't break us alone and need to rely on hr and heroes to escort you then this is a sad day for Ultores. Faceless stand alone, we don't need support tags. Like you using ast as a spill over for ult. Planets with only xan fi that you use to crash on your enemies and defend with oot. It's just a bit sad.
How are you alone in this? Do you actually think Faceless was the only alliance hitting Ult or that Ult should hit Faceless on their own?

PS: Its only an escort if people pull to let the Ults land, which hasnt happened.

your nick on irc ?
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Unread 20 Feb 2016, 23:52   #212
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Krypton View Post
I called you every time i came on tg just to give your life meaning
Yes cause it was so hard to block the calls.
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Unread 20 Feb 2016, 23:56   #213
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
How are you alone in this? Do you actually think Faceless was the only alliance hitting Ult or that Ult should hit Faceless on their own?

PS: Its only an escort if people pull to let the Ults land, which hasnt happened.

your nick on irc ?
I didn't say we were alone, I said we don't use support tags and oot random def. You also have HR and Bows in your block, so you can't say you don't have help there (enough not to warrant the use of ast and heroes escorts).

P.S Those are escorts and you know it. It's sementics to argue over the definition of an escort.
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Unread 20 Feb 2016, 23:56   #214
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
Yes cause it was so hard to block the calls.
It takes 2 seconds of my time...just like all those ult planets i put in anarchy
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 00:03   #215
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven View Post
I didn't say we were alone, I said we don't use support tags and oot random def. You also have HR and Bows in your block, so you can't say you don't have help there (enough not to warrant the use of ast and heroes escorts).

P.S Those are escorts and you know it. It's sementics to argue over the definition of an escort.
I still have no heard your nickname on irc and no people when people teamup out of tag, it still makes it a team. If they recall their attacks to let Ult land. Yes that is an escort.

You get incoming from 59+59+44, Ult had incoming from 50+59+58+59. I d say 10-15 extra fleets from anything outside those 3 main tags dont change much. You are getting alot less hostile fleets than Ult has seen this round.

My guess is that P3nguins/Faceless will have max around 3500 incoming and Ultores will be around 6000 at the end of the round.
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 00:07   #216
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Who has the bigger dick or who is the bigger dick?

The one that negotiates with another alliance to help in a common goal or the one that controls the other alliance to help in their individual goal...
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 00:09   #217
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Now, how many fleets have ND sent at at CT/p3ng(around 20% of the targets avaible out there)?
175 fleets, in total, combined, in two(!) rounds.
175 fleets out of 5000+ is not a lot.

If the goal of ND is not to support CT/p3ng or stop Ult from winning, then please, tell me what it is.
I cant speak for ct but ND has been napped with p3n for most of both rounds so we could expect low incs. IIRC they were the were the first alliance to agree to naps with us last round when we were receiving a surprising amount of inc at the beginning of the round and needed to reduce it.

However I am not sure that portraying such a nap as making ND a p3n support tag is very accurate. ND has its own reasons for being napped or allied with us and I am sure they would end it if our interests began to diverge.

That said this does touch on the issue of how on we actually define a support tag. Previously everyone would have said HEROES is an Ult support tag but were they at the start of this round when they were apparently sometimes attacking ult? Presumably not. I would think the definition would be something like "a tag that works not in its own interests but those of another alliance". As such the crashing mentioned by Raven would be a fine example. Except of course that such things can never be proven so we are left to argue round and round in circles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
My guess is that P3nguins/Faceless will have max around 3500 incoming and Ultores will be around 6000 at the end of the round.
Of course you will have taken more incs. It is a pointless statistic when you grounded for a week defending against p3n while not sending anything back, you are therefore bound to have more incs so arguing about it, or using it as a point is silly. It is simply the result of the different tactics used.

n.b. I would be surprised if we have even that many incs
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 00:16   #218
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Krypton View Post
Who has the bigger dick or who is the bigger dick?

The one that negotiates with another alliance to help in a common goal or the one that controls the other alliance to help in their individual goal...
Thanks for the compliment. No no other alliance can be called up on as a goal like Ultores. Like you wouldnt be able to create the same block to hit any other alliance with as a goal "to stop them from running away with the round".

Also I am pretty sure it takes less time to block a number than to ring it 40 times O_o
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 00:18   #219
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by eksero View Post
We can count on one hand the amount of red days ND had this round before the block vs ult started, surely if we were 'coming' at you, it would be a lot worse?
There were few proper days yes. Then there was something almost every day, most annoyingly when we were fighting bows. At the same time, there was barely anything from many others.
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 00:18   #220
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by booji View Post
Of course you will have taken more incs. It is a pointless statistic when you grounded for a week defending against p3n while not sending anything back, you are therefore bound to have more incs so arguing about it, or using it as a point is silly. It is simply the result of the different tactics used.

n.b. I would be surprised if we have even that many incs
Yes cause Ult grounding for 10 days means P3nguins could launch 2-3k more attack fleets.

No, your assumption that incoming stats dont matter is wrong. Ult HC are fully aware of the amount of succes it would have to attack an alliance on their own while having 180-190 incoming fleets in a night.
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 00:21   #221
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Buly View Post
There were few proper days yes. Then there was something almost every day, most annoyingly when we were fighting bows. At the same time, there was barely anything from many others.
You do realise Rap had in game napped pretty much everyone else right.
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 00:22   #222
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Re: R65. Who wins?

I did not say they dont matter. I said they are in large part the result of tactics used rather than some other factor (like numbers). You grounded to protect your roid lead until it no longer existed. This is a fair enough strategy, and one that has worked for you in the past. I dont see why you need to make it out to be anything other than that in order to try to belittle the other alliances.

p.s. your claimed assumption that you could not have taken roids of p3n while under attack is almost certainly wrong and I dont understand why you made it. You could have picked a strategy of attacking p3n (or fl or whoever) but it would have been a very odd strategy to employ when you had the roid lead so would clearly likely take less than you lost. You very sensibly went over to the offensive when you lost it.
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 00:36   #223
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
You do realise Rap had in game napped pretty much everyone else right.
Norse and CT, would it also been FL? So yes, that's many already. p3n did not give us that hard of a time though. And you hit us while we were warring bows.
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 00:46   #224
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Buly View Post
Norse and CT, would it also been FL? So yes, that's many already. p3n did not give us that hard of a time though. And you hit us while we were warring bows.
Nope, we hit you after you launched 60+ fleets on us for no reason(in 1 night obviously). After that we retalled our incoming. I mean we literally had no raid in the evening and put up the planets attacking Ult instead.
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 00:56   #225
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
Alliances could try and improve their structure. If penguins/faceless/conspiracy could show the growth nd has shown this round they might be able to actually compete without needing to nap 75% of the universe.
You imply that this is the only kind of 'growth' that matters but this is clearly not the case or you would not be in the situation you are in. You could quite easily argue that in terms of structure, internal cohesion etc p3n has actually gone backwards between last round and this (see the loss of 5 members a couple of days ago). However there has been growth in one key area; diplomacy (or trust). P3n, fl and ct have clearly learned from their mistakes last round and agreed not to fight in relay which proved so disastrous for them last round.
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 01:26   #226
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
Nope, we hit you after you launched 60+ fleets on us for no reason(in 1 night obviously). After that we retalled our incoming. I mean we literally had no raid in the evening and put up the planets attacking Ult instead.
That's one day accounted for, retalling raids is fine.
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 01:28   #227
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buly
That's one day accounted for, retalling raids is fine.
And that is the one day where we did target you...
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 01:48   #228
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by booji View Post
I cant speak for ct but ND has been napped with p3n for most of both rounds so we could expect low incs. IIRC they were the were the first alliance to agree to naps with us last round when we were receiving a surprising amount of inc at the beginning of the round and needed to reduce it.

However I am not sure that portraying such a nap as making ND a p3n support tag is very accurate. ND has its own reasons for being napped or allied with us and I am sure they would end it if our interests began to diverge.

That said this does touch on the issue of how on we actually define a support tag. Previously everyone would have said HEROES is an Ult support tag but were they at the start of this round when they were apparently sometimes attacking ult? Presumably not. I would think the definition would be something like "a tag that works not in its own interests but those of another alliance". As such the crashing mentioned by Raven would be a fine example. Except of course that such things can never be proven so we are left to argue round and round in circles.



Of course you will have taken more incs. It is a pointless statistic when you grounded for a week defending against p3n while not sending anything back, you are therefore bound to have more incs so arguing about it, or using it as a point is silly. It is simply the result of the different tactics used.

n.b. I would be surprised if we have even that many incs
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...0&postcount=17
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...6&postcount=13

Im just basing my statements on the stats ive been looking at.
Based on this, recieving 0 incommings from ND the entire round, it seems kinda questionable if you claim that there was no preround agreement.
I know for sure that p3ng/ND was allied the round prior to this one, and the round before that while BowS was beating p3nguins, ND joined p3ngs to try help them salvage the fight.

Im ND myself, and i do enjoy my alliance this round, but ive always called it as i see it, and this is why some people dislike me.
People claim BowS/HR are Ultores friendly, or Ultores "support tags", but did it ever occure to you to ask why might this be the case?
I remeber one point last round where ND was allied/NAPed to all allies out there except BowS/Ult, and again this round ND was NAPed/allied to _EVERYONE_ beside HR and PATSA.

Previously this round FL was targetting HR because they hit a few "FL forts", but what gals is there out there who isnt a fort of one or someother alliance?
To me it sounds like a lot of people in here is trying to legitimate the anti Ult block this round by either saying "Ult had a block of 10000000 players themself" or "BowS/HR/PATSA was Ult friendly". Surely, that has nothing to do with it.
Cant we just agree that unless Ult is blocked against, or slowed in time, they will win simply because they are a tier above everyone else?
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 04:13   #229
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Explain why an astatores planet three fleet defends the same three ultools planets. The same planet hasn't attacked once or defended another astatores planet in the last 72 tics. You don't have to be a genius to work out what's going on.

Ultores is destroying this game it needs to cease for the game to survive. Woohoo ultores champions of a dead game that no one plays or will remember. Great claim to fame.
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 04:17   #230
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...0&postcount=17
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...6&postcount=13

Im just basing my statements on the stats ive been looking at.
Based on this, recieving 0 incommings from ND the entire round, it seems kinda questionable if you claim that there was no preround agreement.
I know for sure that p3ng/ND was allied the round prior to this one, and the round before that while BowS was beating p3nguins, ND joined p3ngs to try help them salvage the fight.
I don't know the details of p3n politics but I think it unlikely that p3n and ND had any kind of pre round agreement. If they did Munkee would have to have been keeping it secret from the p3n membership. In a mail on the 21st January our politics were put as "p3ng fort avoid fl, ult" while ND's was "ND napped fl,ct,norse" since the mail also mentions where known who is friendly with whom presumably at this time munkee did not consider us friendly with ND or at least not friendly enough to be worth telling anyone. Looking at the ally mail we did not nap until the 28th.

Edit: Incidentally it looks like you gave your 175 over two rounds specifically to muddy the waters. Just looking at this round p3n has had 113 incs from ND, hardly a lot but more than would be likely if we had any kind of pre round agreement.
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 04:53   #231
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zazael
Explain why an astatores planet three fleet defends the same three ultools planets. The same planet hasn't attacked once or defended another astatores planet in the last 72 tics. You don't have to be a genius to work out what's going on.

Ultores is destroying this game it needs to cease for the game to survive. Woohoo ultores champions of a dead game that no one plays or will remember. Great claim to fame.
What do you want explained? Can said planet not defend who he wants to defend?
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 07:15   #232
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Re: R65. Who wins?

You're right eksero, let's raise the tag limit to 600 and all join Ultores!
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 07:39   #233
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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You're right eksero, let's raise the tag limit to 600 and all join Ultores!
cardi would win that round hands down. He had alot of practise warring the mining page.
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 08:17   #234
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by booji View Post
I don't know the details of p3n politics but I think it unlikely that p3n and ND had any kind of pre round agreement. If they did Munkee would have to have been keeping it secret from the p3n membership. In a mail on the 21st January our politics were put as "p3ng fort avoid fl, ult" while ND's was "ND napped fl,ct,norse" since the mail also mentions where known who is friendly with whom presumably at this time munkee did not consider us friendly with ND or at least not friendly enough to be worth telling anyone. Looking at the ally mail we did not nap until the 28th.

Edit: Incidentally it looks like you gave your 175 over two rounds specifically to muddy the waters. Just looking at this round p3n has had 113 incs from ND, hardly a lot but more than would be likely if we had any kind of pre round agreement.
P3ng members are well known to be brainwashed.
How is it even statistical plausible for a alliance to NOT hit another alliance for an entire round? Its not.
FL/BowS/HR dont stand a.chance if CT/ND/p3ng enters every round preblocked, and thats whats been happening.
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 09:34   #235
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
P3ng members are well known to be brainwashed.
How is it even statistical plausible for a alliance to NOT hit another alliance for an entire round? Its not.
FL/BowS/HR dont stand a.chance if CT/ND/p3ng enters every round preblocked, and thats whats been happening.
/me prop kicks B-Butcher from forums for continued high levels of brain fail

CT were targetting p3n start of round for what they perceived to be "leaving them to die" last round. You really are a moron.

The reason for blocks being formed is ult having a tag 1 and a half times that of anyone else, coupled with the amount of time they dedicate of their exhuberant lives and the fanboy guzzling alliances that follow (hi HR and Bows!). So yes, other alliances must work together. FL dont stand a chance yet are winning...
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 10:12   #236
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Krypton View Post
/me prop kicks B-Butcher from forums for continued high levels of brain fail

CT were targetting p3n start of round for what they perceived to be "leaving them to die" last round. You really are a moron.

The reason for blocks being formed is ult having a tag 1 and a half times that of anyone else, coupled with the amount of time they dedicate of their exhuberant lives and the fanboy guzzling alliances that follow (hi HR and Bows!). So yes, other alliances must work together. FL dont stand a chance yet are winning...
I got no clue about this rounds inc stats.
I was pointing to last rounds.
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 10:14   #237
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Then go drag up the post from last round.

Your pre formed block argument doesn't exist in this round and you are so out of touch with what is going on you are just making up random ideas of how you think politics was done.
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 10:39   #238
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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You're right eksero, let's raise the tag limit to 600 and all join Ultores!
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 10:48   #239
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Munkee View Post
Then go drag up the post from last round.

Your pre formed block argument doesn't exist in this round and you are so out of touch with what is going on you are just making up random ideas of how you think politics was done.
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...0&postcount=17
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...6&postcount=13

ONLY 265 of p3ngs 6700+ outgoing fleets has been heading towards CT/ND the last two rounds.
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 10:56   #240
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Re: R65. Who wins?

I'm unsure what you are trying to prove from using the numbers? p3nguins were napped ingame to newdawn last round. We were then locked into wars with ultores, faceless, asgard for the bulk of that round (hence why our inc is relatively low on everyone there considering the number of fleets).

Are you trying to state alliances do politics with alliances to reduce incoming and therefore their outgoing fleets on those alliances too? or was this the point of "pre round deals ruin the game"? I'm just not seeing what the argument is sorry.

Politics isn't purely interested in forming blocks you know. Chimpie often messages near the start of the round wanting to know if a deal can be done with p3nguins. If we were as narrow minded as you are suggesting then we should just say no and hit them from 1st tick out of protection. This round we didn't envisage being better than the other top 6 alliances and due to our member numbers wanted a round off so a deal with ult made sense, as did our deal with the next contender faceless. Both deals lasting till the same tick. We had no agreement with the other alliances until after tick 500.
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 11:33   #241
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
P3ng members are well known to be brainwashed.
Your evidence? If you dont have any this seems to be rather insulting. P3n HC is very open about it's political deals. Members are always told immediately and we get regular updates on the general state of politics among other alliances as far as Munkee knows it to be. Clearly many p3n's may have no interest in this but those who do are allowed to express their opinions clearly and are often consulted before a decision regarding alliance forming etc is made.

Munkee might well prefer that he could brainwash me, then he would not have me arguing against every other policy decision he makes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
How is it even statistical plausible for a alliance to NOT hit another alliance for an entire round? Its not.
You are aware that ingame naps mean you cant hit the other alliance at all aren't you? Last round in particular p3n made extensive use of ingame naps because of our distributed membership making these insidious fort agreements impossible.
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 13:05   #242
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkee View Post
I'm unsure what you are trying to prove from using the numbers? p3nguins were napped ingame to newdawn last round. We were then locked into wars with ultores, faceless, asgard for the bulk of that round (hence why our inc is relatively low on everyone there considering the number of fleets).

Are you trying to state alliances do politics with alliances to reduce incoming and therefore their outgoing fleets on those alliances too? or was this the point of "pre round deals ruin the game"? I'm just not seeing what the argument is sorry.

Politics isn't purely interested in forming blocks you know. Chimpie often messages near the start of the round wanting to know if a deal can be done with p3nguins. If we were as narrow minded as you are suggesting then we should just say no and hit them from 1st tick out of protection. This round we didn't envisage being better than the other top 6 alliances and due to our member numbers wanted a round off so a deal with ult made sense, as did our deal with the next contender faceless. Both deals lasting till the same tick. We had no agreement with the other alliances until after tick 500.
You aint seeing what im getting at?
What chances do normal alliances have in this game?
Meanwhile ND/CT/P3ng dont hit each other, they manged over the last two rounds to send close to 4000 fleets to BowS, even though we were allied/NAPed with CT for almost an entire round during this.
Its not like you gang up to take out Ultores, you gang up to take down 2nd/3rd tier allies aswell.
Sure the p3ng/ND/CT gang sent around 5500 fleets towards ult during this time,
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 13:32   #243
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Meanwhile ND/CT/P3ng dont hit each other, they manged over the last two rounds to send close to 4000 fleets to BowS, even though we were allied/NAPed with CT for almost an entire round during this.
You are mixing up cause and effect. P3n usually fights bows after bows has shown itself to be hostile towards p3n's objectives.

You are also dead wrong about p3n and ct not hitting each other. Indeed I would go so far as to suggest that ct and p3n are actively hostile for the first part of each round (this is amazingly consistent round after round) and it is not until it is clear that there needs to be a block to stop the top alliance that ct and p3n are brought together.
Last round looking at Bram's stats p3n and ct were pretty normal in terms of incs at each other; 153 ct incs on p3n and 187 from p3n to ct in first half of round, then down to 2 and 70 for second half.
Clearly we dont have the breakdown for this round yet but p3n has received 296 incs from ct - again all in the first half of the round. This is not some tiny number that implies we are friendly from the start of the round.
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Its not like you gang up to take out Ultores, you gang up to take down 2nd/3rd tier allies aswell.
This comes with the territory of fighting in blocks. It is simply more efficient for the entirety of a block to be on one of the other block's alliances. As such this is usually Ult as the most powerful member of the other block. However when our side's memberbase begins getting restless from lack of landing due to Ult awesome defending that respite comes from a day or two attacking the other weaker tags.
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 13:46   #244
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Re: R65. Who wins?

RE: Butcher
I think you are missing a fundamental part to bows incoming, which I tired to point people towards earlier on in this thread.

Bows get smashed because they pick the wrong side, when infact they dont even need to be on a side to start with. Ask cr0 or green_cat how many times I've told them that they dont need to be involved in wars. Yet, without hesitation they end up jumping on the bandwagon when p3ng gets incoming and then wonder why we turn out attention to them later on once we have our main war sorted out.

I can remember at least 5 times I've had this conversation with them. I even had the EXACT conversation this round with green_cat. They were allied to ultores, I asked for a nap, they gave me till tick 800 and then started hitting our forts each night. Now we have the time to repay the inc and we have, so dont expect bows to receive any less incoming this round than others simply because as I keep saying they make silly mistakes and it comes back to bite them hard.
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 14:00   #245
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkee View Post
RE: Butcher
I think you are missing a fundamental part to bows incoming, which I tired to point people towards earlier on in this thread.

Bows get smashed because they pick the wrong side, when infact they dont even need to be on a side to start with. Ask cr0 or green_cat how many times I've told them that they dont need to be involved in wars. Yet, without hesitation they end up jumping on the bandwagon when p3ng gets incoming and then wonder why we turn out attention to them later on once we have our main war sorted out.

I can remember at least 5 times I've had this conversation with them. I even had the EXACT conversation this round with green_cat. They were allied to ultores, I asked for a nap, they gave me till tick 800 and then started hitting our forts each night. Now we have the time to repay the inc and we have, so dont expect bows to receive any less incoming this round than others simply because as I keep saying they make silly mistakes and it comes back to bite them hard.
"they pick the wrong side" ?
What does this mean?
BowS usualy never did any deals longer than 150 ticks.
Often the deals that i made while at bows was, with a expering date the next sunday 20:00.
How did BowS pick the wrong side this round? They didnt nap Ultores untill tick600 like i heard CT/P3ngs did
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 14:00   #246
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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BowS have been good defensively, but lacked political luck and offense.
Haha "political luck"
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 17:28   #247
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post

I know for sure that p3ng/ND was allied the round prior to this one, and the round before that while BowS was beating p3nguins, ND joined p3ngs to try help them salvage the fight.

Im ND myself, and i do enjoy my alliance this round, but ive always called it as i see it, and this is why some people dislike me.
Erm what? In what universe did Rainbows "beat" p3nguins? Or rather in your words "beating"? Is this another fantasy of yours? Believe me the alliance which is known for its attacking activity would never be beaten by Rainbows no matter how bad our defence is. So stop talking rubbish.

And no I'm afraid people don't dislike you for that, they dislike you because you talk utter rubbish. Even when stats are put in front of you proving all of your theories wrong (which I have done on many occasions) you still ignore us and carry on posting drivel. Anyway carry on.
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 17:34   #248
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 18:24   #249
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Erm what? In what universe did Rainbows "beat" p3nguins? Or rather in your words "beating"? Is this another fantasy of yours? Believe me the alliance which is known for its attacking activity would never be beaten by Rainbows no matter how bad our defence is. So stop talking rubbish.

And no I'm afraid people don't dislike you for that, they dislike you because you talk utter rubbish. Even when stats are put in front of you proving all of your theories wrong (which I have done on many occasions) you still ignore us and carry on posting drivel. Anyway carry on.
Im pretty sure everybody would agree to that p3ng were getting destroyed by bows that round? Except p3nguins ofc
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Unread 21 Feb 2016, 18:31   #250
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Im pretty sure everybody would agree to that p3ng were getting destroyed by bows that round? Except p3nguins ofc
Feel free to provide some type of evidence for this. If this was at a time p3nguins were at war with other allies and bows managed to land a few attacks on us and based on the fact we prioritised defence against others then I'm sorry you can't claim to have destroyed anything. As I'm quite confident without sounding arrogant if bows and p3ng had a one on one war bows would of been roided dry as you simply can't match our attacking activity. Hence p3ng is usually first (or second) in attack activity at the end of every round. And let's be frank our defence isn't fantastic but neither was bows.
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Played: Round 1-13. PA Team: Round 13-17. The Return: Round 18-19. PA Team: Round 20. Return.. Again: Round 21-37 Retired: Round 38 Returned: Round 39-45 Retired: Round 45 Returned: Round: 56

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