Do Spinner want/need the oldies??

[Jonas]

To me it seems lots of old players(not talking age here ) are leaving. Many cause they played since r1-3, and perhaps even more of them due to all the changes being done. I am curious. Can PA continue without the old players, or do Spinner actually want fresh blood to take over, in a new and different game? To me it seems the old players wont be heard anyway(nor the new ones, but they should stfu anyway )

What do you think??

I think that PA = going down, ecpecially if the old players keep leaving like we see now and have seen for a few rounds. Its sad. They are legends. They are PA...

hope to se some discussion here

Jonas

[The_Fish]

oh come on, wait until you've seen PA X 1st, you might even like the changes.

[Leshy]

Originally posted by Jonas
nor the new ones, but they should stfu anyway

Maybe this is a reason a good portion of the old players aren't particularly helpful in getting and keeping new members in.

[das_experiment]

I think its 'GOOD', that some old p.a players leave.

They dont help in keeping new blood in the game, and quite some of them take this much too highly, and are 'powerplayers.

I hope there will be loads of new blood in planetarion round 10, so we get a change in both gameplay and players.

Maybe there will be some new faces on AD too

[Structural Integrity]

Spinner doesn't need the "oldies" to make the game a success.
Oldies are an annoyance anyway (for the games development) for they will always try to block major changes in the game. Just see what whinage you get from experienced players when they add a new spray-weapon to counterstrike. A spray-weapon will make it easier for n00bs to get a frag, but experienced players will be angry cause they got fragged by a n00b. It's an everlasting dilemma.

When you make the game inaccessible for newbies the game will die. Oldies leave. If they don't leave next week, then they will leave next year. That's a fact.

And let's face it... the game IS inaccesible for newbies simply because of the politics factor. Not every newbie KNOWS he has to get on IRC and work his way through numerous alliance channels only to be rejected BECAUSE he is new.

So, "ditching" (or challenging) old players to play a new game is better business wise. If the concept fails, then the game dies quickly... No need to put any more effort in it. But if they create a good game and it becomes a success, then they get the big bucks.
If the game continues to exist as it is, then the game will die slowly. No matter what.
PA isn't profitable at this moment (I think), so this gamble called "PA-X" is a good decision.

[Jonas]

I honestly think it will be harder for a newbie next round. The game gets too advanced. I dont say the changes wont be good, but atm I think they are too heavy. Expecially the part with alliance.

We'll see. I'm here to find out. Hopefully will be my last round tho


-Jonas-

[Tactitus]

Personally, I think more players have left because of the changes that haven't been made. The game has some major problems that haven't been adequately addressed in years. It's also gotten stale. Maybe some of that will be fixed in R10--I dunno.

Of course, it's always tempting to cater to the hardcore players, as they are now a large chunk of the ever-dwindling player base. Unfortunately, many of the things they want will tend to cement their dominance even further and make it still harder for new players to get into the game.

To answer your question, does Spinner want/need the oldies? Yes; but he wants/needs new players as much, if not more.

[Zeus]

Originally posted by Structural Integrity
Spinner doesn't need the "oldies" to make the game a success.
Oldies are an annoyance anyway (for the games development) for they will always try to block major changes in the game. Just see what whinage you get from experienced players when they add a new spray-weapon to counterstrike. A spray-weapon will make it easier for n00bs to get a frag, but experienced players will be angry cause they got fragged by a n00b. It's an everlasting dilemma.

When you make the game inaccessible for newbies the game will die. Oldies leave. If they don't leave next week, then they will leave next year. That's a fact.

And let's face it... the game IS inaccesible for newbies simply because of the politics factor. Not every newbie KNOWS he has to get on IRC and work his way through numerous alliance channels only to be rejected BECAUSE he is new.

So, "ditching" (or challenging) old players to play a new game is better business wise. If the concept fails, then the game dies quickly... No need to put any more effort in it. But if they create a good game and it becomes a success, then they get the big bucks.
If the game continues to exist as it is, then the game will die slowly. No matter what.
PA isn't profitable at this moment (I think), so this gamble called "PA-X" is a good decision.

110% correct in every way

[hAl]

Many of those so called 'oldies' make leaving threads because they have been caught cheating. Hardly a loss.

hAl

[Eventh]

Originally posted by Zeus
110% correct in every way

[Scouse]

If it brings in more new players than it forces old ones out then it's a winning formula.

I've seen very little of next round features. Hopefully, it will do this.

[Fred of Bedrock]

Problem is that many of the "old players" have heard the changes coming forever and basically they get a rehashed version of spinners idea.

Now it seems that PA 10 is copying many Utopia features to make it a new game. Whilst other games have copied PA they havent been successful and so copying Utopia will probably bring similiar comparison.

PA was an unique concept and so attracted large numbers. Like the early Model T-Ford it did a great job but advance in technology and product awareness have meant other games appeal more now. Bringing out a new ashtray or rearview mirror didnt bring many people away from Ferrari back to the Ford so it will be the same with PA imo.

"Old players" need a challenge and quite frankly PA is more a political and recruitment challenge than a game challenge. The concept never changed and the way cheating was disregarded since the game started had led many players to become cynical and abuse the same things every-one else was. Despite crew saying otherwise there were biases obvious for a long time and if you had the ear of the right crew member you got some-one deleted or restored for the most lame excuse.

I know for a fact that many of the "new players" learn the opes quite quickly and if they are clever they get away with doing what they blast others for.

If people remember this great round 10 was suppsed to be ready for a meet months ago but ofc wasnt. There will be bugs galore and abuses aplenty if you go on past history of the games coding despite "beta-testing" or alpha testing etc


So why would an "old-player" spend countless hours playing a game that lost the fun. I cannot justify spending those hours again on a game that lost its edge and neither can the rest of the old player I know who have quit.

So let the new players play it.... I doubt they will enjoy it and they too will leave once some-one who gets closed then restored become apparent. The flaw lies in crew and they refuse to accept it as they like to keep their jobs

If they were my employees they would be looking for a new job by now

[Leshy]

Originally posted by Fred of Bedrock
So why would an "old-player" spend countless hours playing a game that lost the fun.

Because for some unfathomable reason he still likes to be bitter on the boards

[n4m3l355]

i think fresh blood might bring in some new idea's towards the games
right now the old crew is sofar evolved that they know pretty much everyone & know what to expect. result that they kill each other quite efficient
i think LDK proves that new can be refreshing as we never seen alliances pushing up as good as they do and will make us think for next round
yet by loosing the old stabil crew i'm not sure if your doing best as they know how this game is going to be runned & by ex's leaving you will loose players to

[ElAlan]

erk Jonas mate you have lower score than me and i havent played this round ...much

on topic..

i think some of the old blood is bad blood in this game, its clearly gotten very bitter rther than fun, it does need a huge injection of new to move it on, problem is and maybe this goes to the hoping the old blood do disappear part is that the old players will continue to lead/be part of l33t groups that rape the new never playrs without giving them chance to become something in the game, lets be realistic here what top alliance would admit brand new players into their ranks, seems since pa died (which it has really since r6) what little that held on now seems to be more than half hardened pure pa players that wiull stick together, you'll never get the challenge or equality back in the game, the same groups/people will always own this game now, which to me, cant really be a good thing!

Just my humble opinion ladies and gents..

[Monkehpimp]

Well I started round 3, and I'm not playing round 10.

[Lerxst]

There are some things that make the game "boring" or "no fun" for new players.
One is, that PA isn't playable in an enjoyable way without investing a hillarious amount of time in it. Staying away for the weekend most likely results in being bashed to pieces. This realized, most ppl I know who just tried this game, left with the words "such a silly waste of time". A big amount of potential customers were lost by that. (Besides the fact that a new player gets not into a decent alliance to be helped)
The other is that there are a lot of "godlike" old players (mostly young ppl) whos biggest fun is seemingly to bully them around, make fun of them and/or abuse them as flak. The usual "stfu u n00b" does the rest.
Since r5, most rounds were a hell for new/lesser players since the rounds were dominated by a overwhelming force (whichever ally it was) and bloodlusty BGs roiding the rest to hell. Not that this "per se" is a problem - but in combination with a massively shrinked universe in comparison to the former rounds this resulted in getting into the game, playing 2 weeks, then watch crumble down what was built up.

The things so far did not repell every new player. But a huge amount of them. Some stayed and kept "fighting" and made their way into the ranks of the alliances. But most I personally knew could not be bothered to invest this stupid amount of time the game demands - on a regular basis! Not just spend a weekend playing, but keep this up each and every day while having to work and other stuff. They realized that PA is a game for "no-lifers" or lets say ppl with "different priorities".

Many old players got fed up with the same crap around for each and every round. Bugs stayed and weren't fixed, "stagnation" is known since the start of PA and alliances (not every round in the same amount), cheating on a large scale also is present and sometimes (depening on some non-objective factors) known cheaters stay and "win". Last but not least, many ppl are bored and move on to other things or focus more on RL after missing out for some months/years, realizing how incredibly stupid it is to care more for PA than for their lifes.

I could write just some more, but I know that the usual PA-forum reader "cba" to read more than a 5-line flaming containing the usual acronyms or 1337age. But finally, what scares me the most, is that really young ppl (yes - most here are young ppl compared to me) are so afraid of new things to be implemented. Young ppl - afraid of changes... that's really really scary...

[Parthos]

Originally posted by Lerxst
All true stuff

I just wanted to comment about new players and alliances. Those of us "old-timers" who have been in nothing less than Legion/Fury/Xanadu etc. caliber alliances for ages tend to forget just how good the lesser-known alliances can be. I've joined UV/VGN for some rounds now, always posing as an ultimate newbie, and get in without vouches etc., only by showing a willingness to learn and a good attitude. These smaller alliances often are quite active and not only dedicated to covering members' incoming, but actually succeeding in running excellent defenses. (Though I have to say, VGN, you guys WAAAY overcover ) They support and nurture their more naive members and do a pretty good job taking care of them and giving them a PA "home".

But all in all, no one totally virgin to PA would ever in their right mind jump in and begin to play the way it is now. Here's hoping UtopiaPA™ is a success.

[Gayle29uk]

Originally posted by Parthos
I've joined UV/VGN for some rounds now, always posing as an ultimate newbie, and get in without vouches etc., only by showing a willingness to learn and a good attitude. These smaller alliances often are quite active and not only dedicated to covering members' incoming, but actually succeeding in running excellent defenses. (Though I have to say, VGN, you guys WAAAY overcover ) They support and nurture their more naive members and do a pretty good job taking care of them and giving them a PA "home".

But all in all, no one totally virgin to PA would ever in their right mind jump in and begin to play the way it is now. Here's hoping UtopiaPA™ is a success.

I don't know whether to smile at the compliments or cry :/

We know this happens (and I have no doubt you're not the only one) but faced with a choice between closing the door on newbies or having the odd person slip through the cracks I'll keep the newbies every time. We're one of the few alliances that gives them any chance at all and every person that abuses it means that much less defence available for them :/

As for overcovering, quite a few people are arrogant enough to assume some of our little planets won't get defence so don't bother checking before landing. Given that situation I'd rather overkill and wipe the attacking fleet out quickly than assume they'll see the defence and recall. Ask the guy who lost 15 million in fleet score at one of our 4 mill planets

[whoop]

Originally posted by Parthos
I've joined UV/VGN for some rounds now, always posing as an ultimate newbie, and get in without vouches etc., only by showing a willingness to learn and a good attitude.

You've done this ?

/me faints...

-whoop

[TeraHertz]

Well, I am technicaly an old returning player, though I returned in r9, and I'm sorry to say I won't be playing r10.

The reasons are:

1) Scheduled launches. Great, give inavtive n00bs the ability to launch on me at 3am in the morning. woohoo. When it was just the best who launched at unsociable hours, it was ok, but this is too much.

2) Random galaxies. I don't gamble, and I'm not wiling to wager £10 on getting into a decent galaxy with more than 3 active members who know what the hell they are doing.

3) Alliance fund. Abuse Ahoy!

[Jonas]

erk Jonas mate you have lower score than me and i havent played this round ...much

ElAlan, first of all how would you know? Sectond, wtf does score got to say now? I suicided my fleet on sliekas so that I could get to enjoy the good weather, and why do you think that score makes a player what he is? I know real sucky players whos been huge, and extremely good people who hardly beat the top 10. Something about the time they put into it, but mostly what they scarifice for their friends. I lost lots of score cause I deffed a guy, and he was scared and sent his own fleet away, leaving me and another defender to die...

Well, v off topic anyway.

ANd WTF?? Are you sure there will be Schedulded launches. How lame can it get?? The guys not active enough to wake up to attack can attack anyway, but the poor bastards who get attack gotta be up and get def, however noone will be on to send def, cause htye dont need to. They scheduled their attacks...FS. A multi with 10 accounts can work as a bot now ...

I dunno wether there will be or wont be scheduled launches,b ut if there are3...PLZ SPINNER!

-Jonas-

[Zapman]

Originally posted by Lerxst

...realizing how incredibly stupid it is to care more for PA than for their lifes...

Basically the only thing that counts.

[The Seal]

Old players leaving?

Some are and some aren't. Old players is a cathegory with several different people in it. We have the nice old players. Those who played the game hardcore and now idle about for the sake of the community. Teaching new players their way and introducing them to good morale on the playing. I think the game is better off with some old players but too much exploition of the weaknesses will eventually lead to a situation where the contest for the .1 spot isn't too real
I think we need old players, but I think the old players need to behave and care for the new ones

The game is at it's peak when you're playing it all the time. The fun of being online to watch your every fleet and to build ships every tick
That said, the game could perhaps have an option to save the ships of players not willing to be around 24/7.
Perhaps a safehaven, just a wish

The Seal

[cypher]

heh too many changes too fast after each other... (or too slow, depending on how you look at it)

and giving n00bs ability to launch whenever they want sucks yes.. as it's just too easy.. and other aspects are too hard again... pa used to be one of the best games online because of its simplicity.. login, pick target, launch and build some ships in between if needed...

now you have to check soooo many things it's not fun anymore.

old players leaving will probably kill this game. and yes maybe some new ones will come back instead of them. but let's face it.. they won't be nearly as active and they won't organise anything as alliances or attacks so you NEED the old players... newbies don't organise fights on top planets as they tend to stay away from them etc etc etc..

[BLACK_OPPS]

Originally posted by Jonas
To me it seems lots of old players(not talking age here ) are leaving. Many cause they played since r1-3, and perhaps even more of them due to all the changes being done. I am curious. Can PA continue without the old players, or do Spinner actually want fresh blood to take over, in a new and different game? To me it seems the old players wont be heard anyway(nor the new ones, but they should stfu anyway )

What do you think??

I think that PA = going down, ecpecially if the old players keep leaving like we see now and have seen for a few rounds. Its sad. They are legends. They are PA...

hope to se some discussion here

Jonas

no they dont listen to us anyway so we retire and idle around insulting the n00bs trying to do as was done before

LENIN DISGRUNTED RND 1 VET

[Maddix]

Originally posted by The_Fish
oh come on, wait until you've seen PA X 1st, you might even like the changes.

If people don't know how to play it they won't know how to cheat. Thus most of them leaving \o/

[ComradeRob]

Some old players will stick around whether Spinner needs or wants them anyway, so the entire question is moot. What is needed is new players, and I'm not really sure that a web-based space game, even one ten times better than PA as it is now, will necessarily draw such a huge audience these days. Broadband connections and a proliferation of other online games really do make PA look old-fashioned and out-dated.

[-CP-]

Originally posted by Lerxst
One is, that PA isn't playable in an enjoyable way without investing a hillarious amount of time in it. Staying away for the weekend most likely results in being bashed to pieces.

Very good post . I agree.. PA takes far to much time, and will be a part of your life, and not just a game. A dedicated and active PA player will often be playing when he is at work, school or even sleeping (SMS: Incoming!), and that simply is too much for many after some rounds.. I wonder how many have lost their gf/bf or had problems with work/school because they have been playing PA..

[Structural Integrity]

Originally posted by ComradeRob
Some old players will stick around whether Spinner needs or wants them anyway, so the entire question is moot. What is needed is new players, and I'm not really sure that a web-based space game, even one ten times better than PA as it is now, will necessarily draw such a huge audience these days. Broadband connections and a proliferation of other online games really do make PA look old-fashioned and out-dated.

I'm not 100% sure about that. Ofcourse you can get prettier games on every corner of the interweb, but these usually require a client that has to be run on the players computer. PA's strength still is that it can be run in any office cubicle without the boss really knowing.
And DETO PA versions or other browser based tick-based strategy games usually don't have the coummunity, nor the game (as we know it at this moment) as PA has.
If PA polishes up the graphics, adds a few new eye-candy features, and does some pretty marketting it's technically and userfriendly-wise on top again.

From a business perspective I DO see problems on the horizon. As you said the target audience is becoming smaller, and the amount of games like PA are growing. I think PA can draw more players than it does now but it has to have some very good marketting.

[Radon]

I really don't think anyone with any amount of a real life, a job or school can play PA for more than 5 rounds.....

[Zapman]

I seriously doubt if you could play even one at the top level and have anything remotely like a life.

[lokken]

I doubt many old players who actually have something positive to add would want to betatest considering the 'success' of past betas.

In my view, keep it simple, stupid. With lots of players this game could be treated as a bit of fun and played for a laugh. I mean people still play snake nowadays fs.

[Veil05]

PA is being replaced with immature twats... like me

[Kal]

Well I think round 10 will bring new challenges. Personally I hope all the old good players leave... then I have a chance at doing well.... Will this be bad for the game? maybe maybe not - it all depends on the marketing and wether pa can grab a nice load of inactive players for me to kill and roid. Dos it count as farming if I but their accounts and then roid them without telling them?

I actually like the idea of being able to launch without being awake it gives us europeans a big advantage. It also gives thoose under attack a nice advanateg as well... as counters are more likely to be succesful as many attackers won'be online. And anyway in my opinoin what makes a good player/alliance ius not that he attaks late at night as anyone can stay up late to attack - its the people who are waitng online at night for the def calls who are the real heros.

I would rant more but apparently i'm at work and meant to be doing things

[Konsul]

Naturally we want as many as possible to play, experiences back to R3 and the early days says the more the merrier!

[clau777]

pa was a great game played by thousands of players....congratulations spinner & co. for ruining it

[Salomo]

Originally posted by Gayle29uk
I don't know whether to smile at the compliments or cry :/

We know this happens (and I have no doubt you're not the only one) but faced with a choice between closing the door on newbies or having the odd person slip through the cracks I'll keep the newbies every time. We're one of the few alliances that gives them any chance at all and every person that abuses it means that much less defence available for them :/

I know this is technically the wrong place for that, but i'd still like to pay my respect to alliances having such newbie-friendly policies. I know how frustrating it can be to work with newbies and less active players from my time as SL HC, and every HC somewhat competently running a newbie friendly alliance has my highest respect simply for the huge amount of work this requires (being Deus HC was almost a holliday in a 5 star hotel in the caribean compared to being SL HC)

(since i'm also one of those mainly paying attention to the large elite alliances i felt the need to use this chance to pay some respect to these other alliances)

[-o|DarkJedi|o-]

Originally posted by Zeus
110% correct in every way

heh, i seem to remember one of the oldies making a suggestion about alliances being an integral part of the game back in r5 and i think i remember you agreeing with it back then too...

5 rounds later it's finally being tried i hear so maybe it's a case of the oldies could make a better success out of PA without the creators

[/cheek]

[masochist]

there is still many legends, dont panic.

[Sigi]

Originally posted by Konsul
Naturally we want as many as possible to play, experiences back to R3 and the early days says the more the merrier!

--
Very true