|
|
8 Mar 2003, 02:20
|
#1
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
|
American government admits to fatal use of torture, millions not shocked
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 02:23
|
#2
|
Twisted
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Beyond the Pale
Posts: 368
|
If i had been 'hooked up' to an ECG it would have shown 'no change'.
__________________
'I think my mask of sanity is about to slip'
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 02:24
|
#3
|
Has Soup On His Head
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,095
|
After 9/11 . everything change.
Theyre still stupid , but now theyre not as surprised when something nasty happens.
__________________
And the Banker, inspired with a courage so new
It was matter for general remark,
Rushed madly ahead and was lost to their view
In his zeal to discover the Snark
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 02:26
|
#4
|
fascinated by bridges!
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Norwegiensis
Posts: 919
|
It's amazing, I read the article and then something black swept over my vision and now I can't recall anything that would connect the words 'American Military' to words such as 'abuse, torture or evil'.
Matrim
__________________
Holy smoke.
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 02:27
|
#5
|
Twisted
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Beyond the Pale
Posts: 368
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Andrew Gumbel
Jonathan Turley, a prominent law professor at George Washington University, countered that embracing torture would be "suicide for a nation once viewed as the very embodiment of human rights".
|
OK, so this 'embodiment of human rights' is the same country which hasn't signed the Geneva Convention yeah?!
__________________
'I think my mask of sanity is about to slip'
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 02:27
|
#6
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
|
someone will defend it, hurry up.
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 02:30
|
#7
|
Has Soup On His Head
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,095
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
someone will defend it, hurry up.
|
Youd be as well calling this thread "Sandsnake and Texan. Please defend your Torturing Murderous Governments" , and wait for one of them to say "After 9/11 , we had the rights to fight the terrorists on their own terms".
__________________
And the Banker, inspired with a courage so new
It was matter for general remark,
Rushed madly ahead and was lost to their view
In his zeal to discover the Snark
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 02:34
|
#8
|
Twisted
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Beyond the Pale
Posts: 368
|
OK isn't the whole "embodiment of human rights" rankling with anybody else?
__________________
'I think my mask of sanity is about to slip'
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 02:35
|
#9
|
Born Sinful
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Loughborough, UK
Posts: 4,059
|
No.
[edit]
Bad Dace, I was no-ing to Gordon.
__________________
Worth dying for. Worth killing for. Worth going to hell for. Amen.
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 02:36
|
#10
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Amoril
OK isn't the whole "embodiment of human rights" rankling with anybody else?
|
bt thay wrnt amerikin sitizens so the constitushin dusnt aply!!
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 02:39
|
#11
|
Twisted
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Beyond the Pale
Posts: 368
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
bt thay wrnt amerikin sitizens so the constitushin dusnt aply!!
|
*cough* segregation *cough*
__________________
'I think my mask of sanity is about to slip'
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 02:42
|
#12
|
Has Soup On His Head
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,095
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Amoril
*cough* segregation *cough*
|
Dace sets up the Racist Reply Option.
Does Nod Bite and see himself censored for portraying racist views on the board?
WE CAN ONLY WAIT AND SEE!
__________________
And the Banker, inspired with a courage so new
It was matter for general remark,
Rushed madly ahead and was lost to their view
In his zeal to discover the Snark
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 02:49
|
#13
|
Twisted
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Beyond the Pale
Posts: 368
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Kurashima
Dace sets up the Racist Reply Option.
Does Nod Bite and see himself censored for portraying racist views on the board?
WE CAN ONLY WAIT AND SEE!
|
Blind people can't.
__________________
'I think my mask of sanity is about to slip'
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 03:38
|
#14
|
Heh, Leeds !
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: In The Redfern
Posts: 3,790
|
I am sure these suspected Al Qaida members would have treated any american prisoners far worse. They dont deserve to have any rights.
Vaio
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 04:26
|
#15
|
Look over there!
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 704
|
US officials previously admitted using ... sleep deprivation, denial of medication for battle injuries, forcing them to stand or kneel for hours on end with hoods on, subjecting them to loud noises and sudden flashes of light and engaging in culturally humiliating practices such as having them kicked by female officers.
While the US claims this still constitutes "humane" treatment <snip>
heh.
Quote:
Originally posted by Vaio
I am sure these suspected Al Qaida members would have treated any american prisoners far worse. They dont deserve to have any rights.
Vaio
|
Worst
argument
ever.
(troll?)
__________________
Do not argue with me! I control your arms!
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 04:28
|
#16
|
Prince of Amber
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 1,313
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Kurashima
Youd be as well calling this thread "Sandsnake and Texan. Please defend your Torturing Murderous Governments" , and wait for one of them to say "After 9/11 , we had the rights to fight the terrorists on their own terms".
|
Nuke Mecca. Yeah, baby. Medina and Jerusalem, too. Can't you feel my nipples get hard?
__________________
"We sleep safe at night in our beds because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those who wish to do us harm." -- George Orwell.
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 07:20
|
#17
|
Doh!
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit
Posts: 1,720
|
It does not surprise me that the US have used Torture, or contracted it out to other countries where it is used as a matter of course.
What does surprise me is they got caught?
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 08:23
|
#18
|
Homesick
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 399
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Texan
Nuke Mecca.
|
I'd like to see that happen just to watch the world afterwards. And run.
__________________
Don't hate yourself in the morning. Sleep till noon.
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 08:29
|
#19
|
The Bad Guy
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: East, East, East London
Posts: 2,107
|
Without wishing to sound like a cold hearted maliscous bastard, fair play to them.
__________________
I wear my sunglasses at night.
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 08:58
|
#20
|
The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Rids
Without wishing to sound like a cold hearted maliscous bastard, fair play to them.
|
Aside from the fact that this is one of the things they're supposedly trying to stop.
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 09:00
|
#21
|
Snake of the Sand
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 1,500
|
Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
Aside from the fact that this is one of the things they're supposedly trying to stop.
|
one article hardly constitutes truth. I'm still looking for other references to such admissions, but haven't seen any yet.
__________________
I poke badgers with spoons.
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 09:03
|
#22
|
The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Sandsnake
one article hardly constitutes truth. I'm still looking for other references to such admissions, but haven't seen any yet.
|
Hey, I didn't assume it was true. I was responding to the 'fair play to them' comment.
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 09:08
|
#23
|
The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
|
However, it's also notable that the US has continued to deny them PoW status, which would give them rights under the Geneva Convention.
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 09:13
|
#24
|
Snake of the Sand
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 1,500
|
Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
However, it's also notable that the US has continued to deny them PoW status, which would give them rights under the Geneva Convention.
|
well yes, ofc. Don't agree with that with the taliban, agree with it with Al Queda. Bastard telling the two apart though.
__________________
I poke badgers with spoons.
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 09:16
|
#25
|
The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Sandsnake
well yes, ofc. Don't agree with that with the taliban, agree with it with Al Queda. Bastard telling the two apart though.
|
When in doubt, don't give them any rights.
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 09:50
|
#26
|
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Wearing Speedos
Posts: 1,021
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
someone will defend it, hurry up.
|
Where are War Falcon and Cuddly Battleship when you need 'em.
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 10:20
|
#27
|
Gubbish
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: #FoW
Posts: 2,323
|
Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
Aside from the fact that this is one of the things they're supposedly trying to stop.
|
You got something there... Now don't tell anyone.
__________________
Gubble gubble gubble gubble
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 12:47
|
#28
|
Mr. Blobby
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Belgium
Posts: 8,271
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Woof
Where are War Falcon and Cuddly Battleship when you need 'em.
|
Or DavinBrahm.
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 12:47
|
#29
|
Heh, Leeds !
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: In The Redfern
Posts: 3,790
|
Quote:
Originally posted by G_frog
[i]
Worst
argument
ever.
(troll?)
|
No and no
Vaio
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 12:49
|
#30
|
I am an idiot
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,145
|
Good on America. I expecially liked the bit about humiliation and getting females to give them a good kicking. Maybe they could get some pigs in there to sh*t on em or something.
I really have no sympathy for the prisoners.
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 12:51
|
#31
|
Mr. Blobby
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Belgium
Posts: 8,271
|
Quote:
"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster…When you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you…" - Friedrich Nietzsche
|
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 12:54
|
#32
|
I am an idiot
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,145
|
Quote:
Fight fire with fire - CrashTester
|
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 12:58
|
#33
|
Mr. Blobby
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Belgium
Posts: 8,271
|
Quote:
Originally posted by CrashTester
|
Welcome to the abyss.
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 13:31
|
#34
|
Good Son
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,991
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Leshy
Welcome to the abyss.
|
That was a mere shortcut. We're heading there already, I think the we've already been booked tickets for.
__________________
"Oh, wretched race of a day, children of chance and misery, why do ye compel me to say to you what it were most expedient for you not to hear? What is best of all is for ever beyond your reach: not to be born, not to be, to be nothing. The second best for you, however, is soon to die". Silenus, tutor to Dionysos, speaking to King Midas.
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 13:32
|
#35
|
dim like a fox
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Finland ffs
Posts: 866
|
How are we supposed to tell the good guys apart from the bad guys now?!
I mean, Americans are the good guys, right?
Right?
Anyone?
__________________
I'm nobody.
Nobody's perfect.
I'm perfect.
---------------
ph33r TPE plz. thxbye.
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 13:33
|
#36
|
Rawr rawr
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Upside down
Posts: 5,300
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Leshy
|
I definately agree. The western coutries always claimed that they were "civilised", but where is this civilisation going if we allow people to be treated in ways that are considered to be uncivilized.
It doesn't matter if the person you caught would have given you the same mercy, if you allow that people are treated different in other places or with a different affiliation, then what's the use of your constitution or any treaty ever signed?
I don't know if anything in that article is true, but if it is I'm worried about the people that are controlling the "mightiest" country in the world.
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 14:06
|
#37
|
Lord Denning
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,548
|
Its amazing how many people seem to think that denying someone human rights is okay. Thats the point of human rights - everyone has them, regardless of who they are, what country they come from or what they have done. If you start saying "they wouldn't give us those rights" or "what they have done takes away their rights" you really have jumped straight into that abyss that Leshy mentioned. Even the Nazi leaders had a fair trial after World War 2.
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 14:29
|
#38
|
Heh, Leeds !
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: In The Redfern
Posts: 3,790
|
Quote:
Originally posted by menth0l
How are we supposed to tell the good guys apart from the bad guys now?!
I mean, Americans are the good guys, right?
Right?
Anyone?
|
The good guys dont fly airliners into buildings
Vaio
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 14:33
|
#39
|
Lord Denning
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,548
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Vaio
The good guys dont fly airliners into buildings
Vaio
|
The good guys don't torture people.
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 15:12
|
#40
|
Guest
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus
The good guys don't torture people.
|
yes they do.
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 15:12
|
#41
|
The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Vaio
The good guys dont fly airliners into buildings
|
The good guys don't fund people to fly planes into other people's buildings.
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 15:15
|
#42
|
Lord Denning
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,548
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Insane Badger
yes they do.
|
I don't know what movies you've been watching...
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 15:19
|
#43
|
Guest
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus
I don't know what movies you've been watching...
|
I try not to base my morals off movies
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 15:20
|
#44
|
The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus
I don't know what movies you've been watching...
|
Reservoir Dogs! Mr Blonde's the hero, right?
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 15:27
|
#45
|
Lord Denning
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,548
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Insane Badger
I try not to base my morals off movies
|
The concept of "good guys" and "bad guys" only exists inside movies, where it is possible for some people to be completely good and other people to be unbelievably evil, with no-one at all in between. Hence, if you want to assign one of those labels to someone in the real world, you have to look at movies. Would the "good guy" in a movie torture someone, bomb his country killing innocent civilians or invade said country for little or no reason?
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 15:37
|
#46
|
7 Dimensional Puddleduck
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Not where I want to be :(
Posts: 1,556
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus
The good guys don't torture people.
|
Or drop bombs on weddings
Or slaughter their allies
Or drop nukes on thousands of innocent civilians
Comedy 'humans arent the good guys, dolphins are' option
__________________
<CmdrCyrax> I'm sure GDers are bastions of the civilized world.
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 15:57
|
#47
|
Guest
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus
The concept of "good guys" and "bad guys" only exists inside movies, where it is possible for some people to be completely good and other people to be unbelievably evil, with no-one at all in between. Hence, if you want to assign one of those labels to someone in the real world, you have to look at movies. Would the "good guy" in a movie torture someone, bomb his country killing innocent civilians or invade said country for little or no reason?
|
not necessarily
its possible for one side to be more good/less bad than the other side and thereby the 'good guys' without even going near to a movie.
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 15:59
|
#48
|
The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Insane Badger
not necessarily
its possible for one side to be more good/less bad than the other side and thereby the 'good guys' without even going near to a movie.
|
It's not a case of 'good guys' and 'bad guys' it's a case of 'bad guys' and '(slightly less) bad guys who are on our side'
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 16:21
|
#49
|
Guest
|
Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
It's not a case of 'good guys' and 'bad guys' it's a case of 'bad guys' and '(slightly less) bad guys who are on our side'
|
thats a matter of opinion
|
|
|
8 Mar 2003, 16:23
|
#50
|
The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Insane Badger
thats a matter of opinion
|
Good is an absolute that can't be reached.
|
|
|
|
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 23:38.
| |