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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 18:51   #1
DJet
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Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willzzz
(from Jenova recruitment thread)
(ie the rumours of us having 98 + planets, the block war on us, the wars with VGN and TGV by our side) It was an interesting round.

rumours? the coord list you gave us when we were NAPed for a brief period had 98 planets listed. If you didnt have 98 members / planets who were the others you decided to tell us were Jenova then?
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 19:01   #2
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Maybe he gave you a list of Jenova planets + thier NAPs, Wilzzz might have pulled the wool over your eyes :/
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 19:15   #3
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

We did consider that however a quick look on munin also showed 70+ planets, while i maybe wrong i some how doubt Jen shared their coords with Asc too...
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 19:58   #4
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

The jenova co-ords on munin were taken from jenova's own database which I had access to since July 2nd until I gave it to everyone in #transcendancy one day and they took down that address at some point. I believe there were 96 planets that jenova had marked down as jenova. Of these planets 93 had def points marked down for them. I did consider this to be unfair, and as I wasn't in a charitable mood at the time over the closing of achi and rob for scanning I reported this to remy. I sent on screenshots of the members list and the points list. The conversation ran something like this.

Jul 08 22:54:53 <remy|afk> ah ok
Jul 08 22:55:01 <remy|afk> that might be confusing a bit
Jul 08 22:55:11 <remy|afk> LCH used to grant defpoints too to non-LCH

Yes, I found it pretty funny as well. I have no idea who, if any of the planets were closed.
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 20:18   #5
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Last planetlist of VGN that TGV got had 87 planets marked as VGN
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 20:18   #6
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJet
rumours? the coord list you gave us when we were NAPed for a brief period had 98 planets listed. If you didnt have 98 members / planets who were the others you decided to tell us were Jenova then?

It was an amusing situation this one. And well played by Willzzz i have to say although it totally backfired on us. Becuase everyone thought we were a major threat and we had nearly 4 alliances hitting us from protection ending. We never had more then 75 planets at max.

Willzzz entered a lot of people before the round started into the tools and our database, (these were members that were possible recuits for the alliance a week BEFORE the first tick took place) so therefore when the ranking of defence/attack points were given it would say 'Your ranked 8th out of 95' and of course people beleived it. Same with the situation JBG mentioned above. he had access to our arbi. He saw planets marked as Jenova, but JBG ill ask. Did you ever see that many planets attacking?

It amused me the convos myself and remy had. I even brought remy into our private channels and gave him the access list of our private channel. But guys, what i couldnt understand was how blind you all were. If we had 90+ planets where were the fleets for defence/attacks? Why didnt you see us using this against our enemies? Thats becuase they didnt exist! They were all created in our database before the round started to make it look like we had a lot of players. Unfortunatly as i said it backfired as we had a lot of alliances target us for this very reason. I would also like to mention we only had 3 accounts closed i beleive all round unless i am mistaken? I was open with the MHs and gave them all the information they could ask for. And of course as i know how easy it is to spot support planets (it can be blatently obvious tbh) Surely they would of noticed over 20+ planets? Reason why they didnt simple.. we never had that many planets.

Also i would like to add if we did have that many planets, not only would our military have been hard to stop, we would of also had backup to keep swopping members in and out of tag, which as you can see from our final ranking after people left tag wasnt the case.

So yes we gave rock a list of planets, but fact is were they actually ours? (we had also 80+ planets marked as VGN and 83 for Conspiracy.. just how intel works) if so why didnt anyone notice this in the military power? (ie like when exi had 'scan planets' helping them against 1up you could see it, couldnt see it here) And of course we had the famous incident with JBG seeing our database with all these coords listed.. Same points apply which i mentioned above. Was quite amusing all round really by Willzzz but again stuffed up our round.


So the answer to your question is no. We never had that many planets.


Edit: Had to edit my own post as JBG pointed out my wording did look stupid :/ We didnt enter it on purpose was just they were not removed from the database once they were kicked as Willzzz explains below. Willzzz used to make cracks in which CT even came to me about how we had loads of planets and people beleived it. Thats what i meant about Willz using fake propoganda. The database was just a screw up.
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Last edited by Assassin; 12 Aug 2007 at 21:00.
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 20:33   #7
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assassin
Why didnt you see us using this against our enemies? Thats becuase they didnt exist! They were all created in our database before the round started to make it look like we had a lot of players.
This is hands down the most idiotic thing I've ever read. You added fake intel to your own database on the off chance someone would gain access to it? I mean this is either an appalling lie or you guys are complete idiots. How did those extra planets get def points? Are you seriously telling me someone wasted their time entering in fake def points into your database?

And maybe you were all just rubbish and that's why your military sucked? Somehow I doubt f-crew (no offence) with 100 planets would beat exi with 60.
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 20:41   #8
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

What an imaginitive way of trying to explain having supportplanets Assassin, your time in the PA Team have done you well
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 20:45   #9
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
This is hands down the most idiotic thing I've ever read. You added fake intel to your own database on the off chance someone would gain access to it? I mean this is either an appalling lie or you guys are complete idiots. How did those extra planets get def points? Are you seriously telling me someone wasted their time entering in fake def points into your database?

And maybe you were all just rubbish and that's why your military sucked? Somehow I doubt f-crew (no offence) with 100 planets would beat exi with 60.
Right shall we clear the air?

First of all no we didnt add fake intel into our own database. I added players to our bot incase they were going to play. The bot was setup a week before the ticks even took place. The bot is connected to the database and that is why you so the points listings so high. Did you ever bother to actually see anyone below the 70-75 members in the points system were on 0 points? Obviously not

Simple reason for that was they were not actually playing. Or they went to another alliance either way they were not ours. I then made a joke in a Members meeting in our private channels, which i knew spies would relay, which i stated i didnt give a dam about the rule and that we had a lot of planets. Seems a lot of you guys beleived it.

And JBG your an inteligent man. If fcrew did have 100 planets and exi had 60 you would still SEE the fleets, even if they didnt make an impact or not. Assman had a convo with remy about this whole situation. Fact was you got it wrong via seeing our database. You had no actual fact or evidence other then seeing we had them marked as Jenova.

Facts are:

1) No one on the database list over 75 had any attack/defence points. You fail to mention this i see.

2) We had no more then 5 accounts closed all round. And im sorry but you WOULD see 90+ planets you cant hide it especially during wars. So as i said before show me where these planets that were listed were playing for Jenova? You cant, other then screen shots of a database. In which i could of listed the whole of flipping fcrew as jenova and you would of beleived it? Show some inteligence JBG

3) Your selves were closed and you were bitter. Admitting that yourself in your own post. So therefore tried to spam shit to the MHs about us trying to get us closed. But the only evidence you had was a database which i hadnt cleared since tickstart. My own fault fot not clearing it with the members who chose not to play or we removed before the first tick even took place. Fact was you were dumb enough to beleive it just based on this.

4) As Assman mentioned above we gave all the MHs all possible info, and im glad to say they had brains and used them wisley. Shame about the rest of the PA community.
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 20:46   #10
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assassin
If we had 90+ planets where were the fleets for defence/attacks? Why didnt you see us using this against our enemies?
Because Jenova's military sucks balls...?
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 20:52   #11
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Because Jenova's military sucks balls...?
Thank you for that lovely little add-on but i can assure you we would of taken full advantage of having that many fleets.
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 20:53   #12
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willzzz

2) We had no more then 5 accounts closed all round. And im sorry but you WOULD see 90+ planets you cant hide it especially during wars. So as i said before show me where these planets that were listed were playing for Jenova? You cant, other then screen shots of a database. In which i could of listed the whole of flipping fcrew as jenova and you would of beleived it? Show some inteligence JBG
Yeah, ONLY 5 accounts closed is something to brag about.
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 20:56   #13
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
Yeah, ONLY 5 accounts closed is something to brag about.
I only said 5 to give a total round up. Assassin thinks it was only 3. Hence why i said NO MORE then 5. But they were scanners who were closed. Same as Asc's guys. Hence why Assassin publicaly came on the boards through the round to defend the closures of Achiles.
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 20:57   #14
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

We're still on about this?

Come on.

This is so round 21. Or any other past round. I think the Remy quote was funny though.
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 21:05   #15
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willzzz
I only said 5 to give a total round up. Assassin thinks it was only 3. Hence why i said NO MORE then 5. But they were scanners who were closed. Same as Asc's guys. Hence why Assassin publicaly came on the boards through the round to defend the closures of Achiles.
When you're using it for a PR boost rather than to actually challenge one of the fundamental idiocies in how the game is run, you deserve to get panned. Essentially, I think you're talking a load of crap here.
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 21:20   #16
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willzzz
1) No one on the database list over 75 had any attack/defence points. You fail to mention this i see.
I'll address this at the end of my post.

Quote:
2) We had no more then 5 accounts closed all round. And im sorry but you WOULD see 90+ planets you cant hide it especially during wars. So as i said before show me where these planets that were listed were playing for Jenova? You cant, other then screen shots of a database. In which i could of listed the whole of flipping fcrew as jenova and you would of beleived it? Show some inteligence JBG
You guys are just full of shit. I talked to angryduck and through normal intelligence gathering methods they had jenova on 90+ planets as well.

Quote:
3) Your selves were closed and you were bitter. Admitting that yourself in your own post. So therefore tried to spam shit to the MHs about us trying to get us closed. But the only evidence you had was a database which i hadnt cleared since tickstart. My own fault fot not clearing it with the members who chose not to play or we removed before the first tick even took place. Fact was you were dumb enough to beleive it just based on this.
http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?i...icture2as0.png

http://img402.imageshack.us/my.php?i...icture3gg3.png

http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?i...icture4no8.png

http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?i...icture5yv2.png

94 planets, 91 with def points, they're sorted in order by def points, I posted the images from the top down. These were taken on the 8th of July.

These are from four days later.

http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?i...icture5yv2.png

Above is the image of the second page, notice how the def points which now get you onto this page are now 5, 2 higher than from four days ago.

http://img69.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture5lp2.png

From the bottom of the first page now, same date 12th July. I'm really not arsed trying to find the other images I saved but quite obviously those images continue up the top as well with the same number of planets and everyone was still accumulating def points.

Here are two other screenshots I took just for good measure, these are from an hour later on that same day.

http://img67.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture9hg0.png

http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?i...icture8ld4.png

Normally having owned someone so comprehensively I'd post some sort of snide one liner and end things in a sufficiently witty fashion to make me think the time I just spent was worth it. However this time I'm a bit tired so I'm just going to go with "**** you you lying ****".

Have a nice day.
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 21:53   #17
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

I have to say JBG you have got this well reaserched ill have to hold my hands upto to you and say well done on your fantastic reaserch. And ill agree on a few things with you:

1) We had more then the alliance limit which i have openly admitted.

2) I also hate the support planet rule now. I was all for it when it was first introduced but now i dont beleive its good becuase it seems to be impossible to police (meaning get a different MH and you get a different outcome)

3) I have to admit myself i am quite shocked seeing so many names with points. Especially as i didnt see many of those nicks in the irc channels. But if its there i guess its there.

But i still stand by what i claimed. We didnt have that many planets as listed there, and if we had i could of used them more efficiently then that. or of course our military was completly shit as you put further up. But, i will add somthing which i found amusing. I can see 3 of the people on those screen dumps (one of them funnily enough is Assassin) Hadnt launched a single attack fleet all round. But strangley they have attack points. Maybe be irelivent but i dont think the points in our alliance were ever given accuratly. That was a fault on the HC's behalf which even the members will admit was a failure (the points system)

But anyway as i said i take my hat off to you.
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 22:06   #18
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

the bigger the lie the harder the fall
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 22:10   #19
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willzzz
I can see 3 of the people on those screen dumps (one of them funnily enough is Assassin) Hadnt launched a single attack fleet all round. But strangley they have attack points. Maybe be irelivent but i dont think the points in our alliance were ever given accuratly. That was a fault on the HC's behalf which even the members will admit was a failure (the points system)
What I'm wondering about this statement is how an officer, however utterly incompetent, could ever be bothered to give a point for someone who didn't attack. Put simply, this is logistical nonsense and thus what you've said in any sense can't be true.
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 22:19   #20
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

you know we should have a similar system to the one in football , for rule infractions the alliance should be deducted points ,
would love to see jen and vgn starting next rd on minus points
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 22:23   #21
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Brilliant.

I won't be slagging off Jenova, as it's impossible for me to percieve having any number of planets as cheating. Although it was a wrong choice to try to defend this case and deny something that you should've known a lot of people are aware of, especially after round end. Your reputation isn't the best ever now, obviously.

However, I think this event pretty much finalizes the summary of MH's work this round (and possibly earlier rounds, but this one I paid closer attention to). Something has to change drastically there, as having a MH team which has lost literally all credibility can have serious consequences in the following rounds.
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 23:10   #22
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

1. Those screenshots are pretty hilarious and it's laughable how an HC of an alliance can "not notice" an extra 20+ planets on their database that aren't in tag.

2. This really demonstrates Remy's ineptitude. Chasing after people who aren't really breaking the rules (achilles) while ignoring shit like this, even though it's reported with evidence. Well done.
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Unread 12 Aug 2007, 23:55   #23
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
1. Those screenshots are pretty hilarious and it's laughable how an HC of an alliance can "not notice" an extra 20+ planets on their database that aren't in tag.

2. This really demonstrates Remy's ineptitude. Chasing after people who aren't really breaking the rules (achilles) while ignoring shit like this, even though it's reported with evidence. Well done.
1. Where did the HC say they "did not notice" the 20+ extra planets on the database? They probably did, but they did not clean up the database in case someone happened to get access to it.
The truth lies somewhere in between. There were over 70 planets, yes, but i wouldn't say there were much more. If i had to make a guess, i'd go for a count of 80 planets.
2. "Reported with evidence" is a bit too much. In any case, it's not evidence that can be used to close someone: "You are listed as Jenova in their database". Hence the multi hunter needs to find actual proof for closure. Which i am sure he could have done in some cases. He could even have closed me at the start of the round, since i was not in tag back then. :P
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Unread 13 Aug 2007, 04:58   #24
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Yo, Jonathan Brown, what's that "Ascendancy never sleeps" tab about?



Also, this is a silly subject. We know all alliances do this, and have done this for ages.
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Unread 13 Aug 2007, 07:07   #25
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Hmm willz and co why dont u just admit it u recruited around 70 or so pre round and then another 20 or so ex Legion turned up a few days or so before round and you didnt want to turn them away so instead of adding themto jenova tag at start u let them play becuase u didnt want to turn away peoiple whom youd played with previous. Infact u hoped to pick and choose who got added to tag but what u didnt realise is a lot had changed since you all last played and noone really managed to adaped to it.

The first month i was there, there was at least 70- 90 people in channels and they were always being used for outta tag defence. They would have been used for attack also if it wasnt run so crappy until Teddy and game and few others gained control midway (edit gained as in took over cos they felt so damn sorry for bunch noobs left with noone doing anything after assasin got knifed)

So in summation to willz and original Jenova Hc :

1) Dont recruit way past your means even if its for old friends
2) Dont ever attempt to run another ally please
3) Dont ever attempt to Bring more Legion people back to game, you just embarrased yourself and the good Legion name this round.
4) You need more than 1 hc to be active for more than 2 hours in a 24 hour period in a successfull alliance.
5) Coldfusion, Willz, Clouds, DarkAngel, all old Legion in Jenova -->

GOOD GAME YOU STUPIDLY READ PA MAIL ABOUT A FREE ROUND NOW PLEASE DISSAPEAR AND DONT BOTHER US AGAIN FOR A LONG TIME
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Unread 13 Aug 2007, 07:54   #26
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
There were over 70 planets, yes, but i wouldn't say there were much more. If i had to make a guess, i'd go for a count of 80 planets.
Thats still 10 too many.
The alliance limit is there for a reason - going over it with what are effectively support planets is unacceptable ( to me at least ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
2. This really demonstrates Remy's ineptitude. Chasing after people who aren't really breaking the rules (achilles) while ignoring shit like this, even though it's reported with evidence. Well done.
Evidence that cannot be directly used in a closure since its external in origin.
Also - the multihunters department is not a single person. There are others in there you know.

Im surprised that this thread hasnt been cleaned, Surely it breaches some of the rules that are supposed to be upheld?
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Unread 13 Aug 2007, 08:52   #27
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
Evidence that cannot be directly used in a closure since its external in origin.
These people attacked with and defended Jenova planets, if MH were going to keep an eye on this for alliances other than eXilition or Ascendancy, they had plenty of evidence in-game.

The nicklist was enough to point to the fact that it was happening, and it could also be used to narrow down the search by connecting nicknames (at least some used their nick ingame as well). When the MH team recieved the evidence, they shouldn't have closed people directly based on it, but they should've checked peoples' launch history and act accordingly.

Surely for someone who invests enough effort into checking where every scan some scanner made went, and who was it for, tracking these plantes would be close to no effort at all.

Am I detecting signals of you trying to stand behind the MH team on this, despite the fact that for the first time ever breach of your beloved support rule is clearly displayed, and they did nothing? And oh the irony, in an alliance HCd by the author of the support planet rule himself.
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Unread 13 Aug 2007, 09:00   #28
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
Thats still 10 too many.
The alliance limit is there for a reason - going over it with what are effectively support planets is unacceptable ( to me at least )..

Evidence that cannot be directly used in a closure since its external in origin.
Also - the multihunters department is not a single person. There are others in there you know.
And I think that using external evidence when the hc of the alliance in question also acknowledges it for a fact that it is from their system is perfectly fine.

But the round has ended, and since the mh's were unable to do anything in the round, i doubt they'll punish an alliance ending 8th. If anything Jenova managed to implode on themselves this round, and I think that they will most likely have troubles keeping people in their ally the next round should be punishment enough.

What does it say about a member of said alliance that he willingly accepts that his hc and his fellow members are doing organized cheating though..
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Unread 13 Aug 2007, 09:09   #29
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Think i was on that list under a different nick.
Oh, and i defended jenova planets even though i wasn't jenova.
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Unread 13 Aug 2007, 09:19   #30
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Quote:
Edit: Had to edit my own post as JBG pointed out my wording did look stupid :/ We didnt enter it on purpose was just they were not removed from the database once they were kicked as Willzzz explains below. Willzzz used to make cracks in which CT even came to me about how we had loads of planets and people beleived it. Thats what i meant about Willz using fake propoganda. The database was just a screw up.
we keep quitters noted as alliance so we can keep track of them, so if u went into our arbiter you would have seen many more than 50 players, if jenova had a higher turnover than we did and do the same .. which is highly possible imo, then the discrepency in the db is explained for me.
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Unread 13 Aug 2007, 09:19   #31
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talin
The nicklist was enough to point to the fact that it was happening, and it could also be used to narrow down the search by connecting nicknames (at least some used their nick ingame as well). When the MH team recieved the evidence, they shouldn't have closed people directly based on it, but they should've checked peoples' launch history and act accordingly.
Indeed, that should have been the first step in the process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talin
Surely for someone who invests enough effort into checking where every scan some scanner made went, and who was it for, tracking these plantes would be close to no effort at all.
Chances are the scan thing is the result of an automated tool. Similarly the analysis tool i coded back in r12-13 is capable of detecting these fleet correlations between the planets once all the data is entered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talin
Am I detecting signals of you trying to stand behind the MH team on this, despite the fact that for the first time ever breach of your beloved support rule is clearly displayed, and they did nothing?
No, you're not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talin
And oh the irony, in an alliance HCd by the author of the support planet rule himself.
Its not ironic, its tragic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
And I think that using external evidence when the hc of the alliance in question also acknowledges it for a fact that it is from their system is perfectly fine.
I disagree. It can be used to focus an investigation but not be something upon which to base a closure on. For starters, external evidence is unreliable for its accuracy. it can be manipulated by anyone prior to the multihunters seeing it. Internal evidence - cannot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
What does it say about a member of said alliance that he willingly accepts that his hc and his fellow members are doing organized cheating though..
Either that they, and a large proportion of the players currently in the game - lack a strong moral fibre, or they are completely unaware and too trusting of what people say
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Unread 13 Aug 2007, 09:23   #32
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
Either that they, and a large proportion of the players currently in the game - lack a strong moral fibre, or they are completely unaware and too trusting of what people say
to quote homer simpson.. DOH!
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Unread 13 Aug 2007, 10:18   #33
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talin
The nicklist was enough to point to the fact that it was happening
Funny enough, the most people enter their real nickname to the field in the game. That said, the multihunters probably could with little trouble find these planets and check them out. Evidently, this is difficult, though. It's very possible, that the nicks appear under clogged idents [ID1] [ID2] et cetera, instead of real nicks (quite like alliances appear), and the multihunters aren't probably able to dig out planet history so they'd require someone external to do the scans for them and paste links. This sort of ridiculousness can make a move that seems obvious awfully difficult to execute in reality.

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Unread 13 Aug 2007, 11:26   #34
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
Yo, Jonathan Brown, what's that "Ascendancy never sleeps" tab about?
This.
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Unread 13 Aug 2007, 13:28   #35
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

creds to Rinoa! for hitting this thread on spot.

That`s what i all cames down to what you write.
What i think is funny is that after the round, Jenova HC still acts like they had any control of their allie last round, tho the real fact was they had about 5% and the main problem was the 2hours interval at maximum for a HC online. (Il leave Ass and Sayian out, as they did a good job)
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Unread 13 Aug 2007, 16:05   #36
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
The truth lies somewhere in between. There were over 70 planets, yes, but i wouldn't say there were much more. If i had to make a guess, i'd go for a count of 80 planets.
Right... exactly. Even 80 is 10 more than is allowed by this ridiculous support planet rule. Those people WERE attacking and defending with Jenova, as they were racking up attack/defence points. So they were support planets.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Allfather
Think i was on that list under a different nick.
Oh, and i defended jenova planets even though i wasn't jenova.
OH NOES, THE H0rr0rs!
I think this is one of the main points JBG is trying to make with this thread. Admittedly, it's first and foremost publicising Jenova's abuse of support planets.

The underlying reason for this (I'm sure JBG didn't just want to make a thread with the sole purpose of ridiculing Jenova!) is that the support planet rule is ****ing ridiculous and needs to be quantified to a point where people know if they're a support planet or not, and so know if they're going to be deleted or not. The fact that 10-20 planets got away with this, while SCANNERS got deleted for "supporting", is a clear indication that something needs to be done for the next round.

Saying that; I'm sure PA Team have noticed this and will make some revisions to it


Quote:
Originally Posted by teqh
the main problem was the 2hours interval at maximum for a HC online. (Il leave Ass and Sayian out, as they did a good job)
Assassin was also busy being stabbed for half the round
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Unread 13 Aug 2007, 16:35   #37
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Quantified, abolished. It's all good from where I'm sitting. Also considering I didn't start this thread it'd be hard for me to have a purpose to do so.
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Unread 13 Aug 2007, 16:41   #38
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

I bet Willzzz wished he had listened now when I told him to be honest rather than outright lying.

I could of course add my knowledge and opinion to the thread, but it would basically back up everything that JBG has posted.

Willzzz be honest dude, its not like anyone other than Kargool and Wakey actually cares about the extra members.

Extra members ='s Extra planets. I for one don't see the problem in this formula :S
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Unread 13 Aug 2007, 20:13   #39
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allfather
Think i was on that list under a different nick.
Oh, and i defended jenova planets even though i wasn't jenova.
OH NOES, THE H0rr0rs!
me too! Shocks...i also defended CT and vision planets....and scanned for just about anyone...booo me!
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Unread 13 Aug 2007, 22:56   #40
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

This thread has now been moderated.

Apologies to those whose posts I edited, I only omitted the offtopic discussion, as you will see from your posts above. The posts I have deleted were entirely offtopic, thus removed. This discussion is extremely interesting and I plead with everyone to keep the discussion on topic.

As ever, any enquiries I am at your service via the pm function on the forum.
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Unread 14 Aug 2007, 00:19   #41
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

I am crying for my post that got edited, you run around acting like you're a moderator or something lokken!
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Unread 15 Aug 2007, 17:20   #42
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

As a 'for instance' there's a good chance I was marked down on various different intel databases as being from different alliances.

I was unallied for the entire round (except for 1 day and 14 hours when I joined Subh with Virall, as he wanted to help them turn into a real alliance but then gawped when he saw just how much work we'd have to do so left shortly after) but attacked with friends from a few different alliances. I wasn't a support planet - I was playing solo and piggying some mates from time to time. But I'm sure that by attacking with (by example) Bradleykins from Rock on a few occasions, I would have subsequently been labelled a Rock planet.

So yeah - don't take everything you see on an intel coords list as Gospel.
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Unread 15 Aug 2007, 18:01   #43
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

yeah except that they admitted to it...

go figure
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Unread 15 Aug 2007, 18:07   #44
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
The jenova co-ords on munin were taken from jenova's own database which I had access to since July 2nd until I gave it to everyone in #transcendancy one day and they took down that address at some point. I believe there were 96 planets that jenova had marked down as jenova. Of these planets 93 had def points marked down for them. I did consider this to be unfair, and as I wasn't in a charitable mood at the time over the closing of achi and rob for scanning I reported this to remy. I sent on screenshots of the members list and the points list. The conversation ran something like this.

Jul 08 22:54:53 <remy|afk> ah ok
Jul 08 22:55:01 <remy|afk> that might be confusing a bit
Jul 08 22:55:11 <remy|afk> LCH used to grant defpoints too to non-LCH

Yes, I found it pretty funny as well. I have no idea who, if any of the planets were closed.
----

Basically, I'm going to cut to the chase here, I mean no offense in what I am about to say, IT MAY offend, but its rather just straight comment not meant to offend anyone.

1. Alliances make all kinds of dirty deals. This includes NAPs, non aggression deals, mutual def deals, mutual attack deals.

2. The mess that is 'support planets' and 'alliance limits' is a complete crock of shit. You can add in all the hubris abd bullshit from people who start espousing morality (Yes, thats You Phil), and PA team members and long term players who start splitting bloody peas on the subject matter. This thread is a classic example, you're all wittering on about someone having 20 extra 'members' while in the whole round entire allies were basically doing the same thing on a much larger scale. But one is dirty, one is not. Apparently.

To JBG, You were in a bloody tripple alliance wrapped up in public attempts to circumvent basic game operation - and the alliance limit. *scendency is a nice idea, but seriously, just HOW in gods name do you have the temerity to start hauling others through the mud when your whole alliance tripple wing special premise is as much morally in contravention of the spirit of the rules of the game as any other alliance out there.

To PATEAM, the support planet rule and the alliance limit is one fat wallowing mess, you can't fully explain it, and I do understand you're going to rework the wording to try and fix that, but *sigh*.., the players and alliances don't understand it, don't accept it, fly aeroplanes through it, trucks over it, submarines under it, you name it.

Finally, I will end with, support planets and its ruling should be cleaned up. Planets outside of tag should be allowed, at the end of round only the 70 best get tagged up, AND am I wrong in saying that ally score needs to be tallied in longer term? A planet coming into tag brings a zero score? (Correct)?

To the larger alliance audience out there, Most of you cheat. Most of you bend the rules, run large scale naps, wings, things, mutual def, mutual strike, and all the rest of the cheating crap you get up to. You'll then come here talking about how 'politics' and diplomacy are keys to the game. I'll try to remember that while watching your combined 140 member, 210 member 280 member activity takes you to the top of the charts, and worse, combines to work together to keep you there. To the long term PA players and PA team who support that total garbage - shove it where the sun don't shine.

Still, I can look forward to the next time you go close some poor bastard to make an example while pretending gargantuan cheating on a scale far larger and with far more massive impact is acceptable. I guess its a lot easier to have the balls to close one player here and one player there, than close down two (OR MORE) leading alliances for circumventing a 70 player limit on vast scale.

Either enforce your bloody 70 player limit globally, and properly or shut the **** up and eliminate it from the game rulings.
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Unread 15 Aug 2007, 18:13   #45
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Quote:
To JBG, You were in a bloody tripple alliance wrapped up in public attempts to circumvent basic game operation - and the alliance limit. *scendency is a nice idea, but seriously, just HOW in gods name do you have the temerity to start hauling others through the mud when your whole alliance tripple wing special premise is as much morally in contravention of the spirit of the rules of the game as any other alliance out there.
Oh, I believe the entire premise of the support planets rule is flawed as well, as I've stated numerous times (often in fact in threads you've been in so how you managed to misinterpret me yet again is beyond me). If anything the fact that an alliance run by a number of respectable community members with little history of cheating, among them the ex-multihunter who introduced the support planets rule, shows that people despise this rule for the limitations it puts on them and do everything possible to get around it, despite their public proclamations to the contrary.

Conversely I don't believe in alliance limits. I believe in tag limits. And those are impossible to break. I was merely pointing out the truth in this thread.
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Unread 15 Aug 2007, 18:21   #46
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

As I said. I mean't no offense, but straight talking causes it anyway.
And I misinterpret you all the time, you should have got used to it by now
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Unread 15 Aug 2007, 19:43   #47
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

On a sidenote, the entire *scendancy deal was public from the very beginning, and there was no lying or decieving involved, which is a slight difference.

But don't take it as an excuse. There is nothing to be excused for, as neither *scendancy nor Jenova did anything wrong, at least not by recruiting more than 70 people. Personally I'd love to see every relevant alliance turning out with 85-90 planets, just to further illustrate how shit the actual rule is.

What I do not like to see, however, is people backing up the support planet rule and MH team in the implementation of the support planet rule, and then actually not following the rule themselves.
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Unread 15 Aug 2007, 21:17   #48
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Being public about cheating changes what exactly?
'Oh we are doing this, in public, right here, right now, what ya gonna do PAteam..?'

Course, you can take a big ally, make a deal with another ally, and thats ok. Some poor guy does some scanning out of tag, he gets closed. I'm sure his impact on the game was so vast it pales into insignificance the actions of in real terms an 140 person ally, 210 person ally, or whatever.

Or perhaps its simple and I don't see it. Two large allies joined at the hip is in fact not 140 people, its just my imagination. A figment, a mirage..
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Unread 15 Aug 2007, 22:18   #49
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Being public about the issue and trying to turn things around and make the game function normally again is a clear and obvious goal.

Recruiting extra members in an attempt to win the round, while at the same time backing up the support planet rule publically, is something different.

If you fail to spot the difference, I'm afraid I can't put it more clearly.

The issue of wheter that's "cheating" or not is totally irrelevant here. The support planet rule has not yet been widely accepted, we have seen examples of how it's being enforced, and after everything we've seen so far related to this issue, I'd be careful with throwing "cheater" remarks around. At the moment, the support planet rule does not have such status that calling people "breaking" it cheaters would be justified, regardless of what the EULA says.
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Unread 16 Aug 2007, 00:25   #50
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Re: Jenova: As its over, how many planets?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmV0rl0n
Being public about cheating changes what exactly?
'Oh we are doing this, in public, right here, right now, what ya gonna do PAteam..?'
Are you just being deliberately difficult?

It's been stated countless times that Ascendancy wasn't trying to cheat. There were 3 alliances. Please READ the description and stop being so obtuse.

1. Ascendancy: For people playing seriously, in the "Ascendancy" way.
2. Descendancy: For people like me, who weren't prepared to play seriously but wanted to hang out in #ascendancy and use Munin. I think the maximum count was 18 people or so. 18 INACTIVE people.
3. Transcendancy: A gimmick of Achilles which actually turned out to be a fantastic idea. He decided to scan for the universe and just took the "*scendancy" name for a joke. If he'd called it "Scanners United" or whatever, there'd have been no fuss about it. He did scans for everyone; it's just most of his buddies were in Ascendancy so we were using them while the rest of the universe took a while to click (even though he'd made posts in AR and AD about it).

So please. Stop it. It's irritating.
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