Question for 1up

[kilroy]

Just a short 1 can some 1 from 1up tell me why almost all 1up planets lets say (95%) are xan?


Only 3 simple answers pick 1:

A: Sid have helped to make the stats and there for did know exactly what rase was best.
B: Its was just a random pick and every 1 picked XAN.
C non above

best regards kilroy

[Forest]

well its certainly not that high, but, it is a high amount.

My thinking:

41% of uni is currently terran and 26% xan.

The majority of new players are terran, (as it sugegst it on sign up page).
That evens things up a bit.

Now, a lot of ppl in 1up are 'top players', therfir delieberetly dont go terran, as its the 'newbie race', and there is not too much killing in cath/zik. That is how i would explain it.

And i can assure u, being a high percentage of 1 race isnt a good idea, and Sid certainly would never of allowed it had he any say on what races ppl were doing.

[I am Idler]

the beta was public once, so most had a chance to see for themselves which race was the best.. go figure

[Gunn3r]

it's a conspiracy!

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally Posted by I am Idler

the beta was public once, so most had a chance to see for themselves which race was the best.. go figure

So there is not a difference betweeen making the stats (to even see the numbers behind it all), and a public beta?

[Kal]

i'm going to be controversial here and say something i probably shouldn't

Pa Team and jolt have heard various complaints about alliance hcs producing stats, beucase although the stats are public, creating them has to give u an advantage in that you coudl design them so that there were some very goos strategies which are not immeidatly obvious, however I once had a conversation with forest about an amazing strategy for combined zik/cath attacks - it was going to be pretty unstoppable - so why then would all of 1up suppposedly be xan when u can do some pretty awesome things with zik/cath. The simple answer is that there is no way of really knowing whether 1up gained an advantage or not, but it would probably be a good idea in the future to have a neutral party designing the stats, or to even have some involvement of the community as a whole - after all round 12 stats will just be tweaks, not all new so there is less of a game security issue etc.

anyway i'll shut up now and go back to pretending to do work

[Treveler]

Well I guess many in 1up thought like me. I picked Xan simply be course so many in the oposing alliances had chosen Terran and if you couldnt see, by looking at the stats, that xan would own Terrans then you can hardly blaim that on anyone but yourself.

If there were more xans, I would probably chose Cath.

[Forest]

Arent these arguably the best set of stats ever in pa?

[Synthetic_Sid]

Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov

So there is not a difference betweeen making the stats (to even see the numbers behind it all), and a public beta?

What "numbers behind it all"? All the numbers were made public before the public beta. I had no input into, or advance knowledge of, the final set of changes made after the public beta.

[Forest]

Also, to talk about Kal's point, although sid made most of the original stat, it was looked at in a closed party beta by hc of several alliance hc (RealJames of Mistu will confirm).

In addition, sid was completely open in which races are weak against which (they were designed so every race was strong against another), and he posted in beta/on these boards about it several times.

[Legator]

the lines of the threadstarter contain the most bullshit i ever read. atleast this threads reaches the top 10 - and its not even funny

[DrunkenViking]

Originally Posted by Forest

Arent these arguably the best set of stats ever in pa?

i feel r10 stats were better, but then again, less complicated.
i liked r10 style infact :\ this round was almost too retro

[lokken]

xan are the best race, it's not hard to work out if you take a look at the stats.

they chose it

no problem there

[Jackal2112]

hi Elroy, how is retirement?

dont be bitter and try to remember what happened last round. you're mistu right?

[DrunkenViking]

if we cant blame sid for exploiting "secret stats" etc etc, lets just blame him for making it unbalanced so that xan would pwn any other race? :P

[Zh|l]

Originally Posted by Kal

The simple answer is that there is no way of really knowing whether 1up gained an advantage or not, but it would probably be a good idea in the future to have a neutral party designing the stats, or to even have some involvement of the community as a whole - after all round 12 stats will just be tweaks, not all new so there is less of a game security issue etc.

How on earth can any claim be made about such a thing? It's not remotely possible for Sid to have made some stats secret. Considering there were representatives from most alliances in the beta AND the fact there was a PUBLIC beta really blows such conspiracy theories away.

If anyone is best to continue on with stats, then Sid would be a logical choice. He had aims with the stats he designed and after a full proper round has been able to pick up on the nuances that don't show in a beta.

Additionally, who counts as 'neutral' nowadays?

[Synthetic_Sid]

Originally Posted by DrunkenViking

if we cant blame sid for exploiting "secret stats" etc etc, lets just blame him for making it unbalanced so that xan would pwn any other race? :P

Xan only "pwns" Terran.

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by DrunkenViking

if we cant blame sid for exploiting "secret stats" etc etc, lets just blame him for making it unbalanced so that xan would pwn any other race? :P

They do?

Damn - I'll have to give all those roids back

My xan ships have been modified for stun capabilities.

[Linkie]

It was close to impossible with to try and hide any kind of strategy with the old style stats, with these new stats it is actually impossible.
If xan was so hiddenly superior why didn't all of 1up go xan?
If you couldn't see from the stats from the start off xan would be dominant in a 50%+ terran universe it's your own fault, not Sid's.
Also to my knowlegde Sid wasn't alone in making the stats, other HCs and PATeam was also involved.

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally Posted by Synthetic_Sid

What "numbers behind it all"? All the numbers were made public before the public beta. I had no input into, or advance knowledge of, the final set of changes made after the public beta.

My fault. Hadnt checked that the new stats was open (ie all the numbers were there instead of "good" etc).

[BoredOfThis]

Originally Posted by kilroy

all 1up planets lets say (95%) are xan?

wrong........

i know at least 5 members that aren't xan

[Lord_Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Forest

Arent these arguably the best set of stats ever in pa?

I don't think these stats are da bomb. I think we have seen better stats in earlier rounds. Could be just my view. On alliance boards there always pointers for people which race they should choose. Ofcourse it's a bit strange that the creator of the stats is the same man as the man who prolly gives pointers.. Fact remains, every alliance could have seen the advantage of Xan...

[ComradeRob]

Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov

My fault. Hadnt checked that the new stats was open (ie all the numbers were there instead of "good" etc).

Zhukov in not checking the facts before posting shocker!

btw, Xan has always been the best race in random rounds - r8 and r9.5 were both won by alliances with a high concentration of Xans. Low initiative + high firepower + low ETA are the perfect combination for random rounds.

[Tis]

Yes, its clearly Sids fault.

Especially when you note that two of the three changes to Terrans between the beta and real round (which, afaik, were made completely without Sids input) made Terrans slightly weaker against xans...

HARPY now arm 13 / dam 8 (was 14/9) <-- less useful defending vs fi attacks
MINOTOR (terpod2) now arm 90 (was 100) <- more losses attacking pulsars

[General Martok]

Everyone in the beta could see xan was a superb race, especially after people said they were too weak and were spiced up a bit during that beta. I must say I adviced a lot of our members who doubted to go xan too, so what? The stats are public, everyone could see them, whether you designed them or not.

And besides, you are about doubling the numbers of xan planets in 1up Kilroy.

[Kileman]

Someone please explain the Sentinel then????????????

I chose Xan on the basis that I enjoyed playing it in r8 - I didnt even know the stats by the time id made this decision... after making it, Sid actually told me it prolly would have been better to go Zik to start out (I started 3 weeks late into the round....).

Cath and Zik can both roid xans with much ease, as xan is very weak against cr (and fr to a lesser extent )
________
Silver surfer vaporizer

[AzureWrath]

Originally Posted by kilroy

Just a short 1 can some 1 from 1up tell me why almost all 1up planets lets say (95%) are xan?


Only 3 simple answers pick 1:

A: Sid have helped to make the stats and there for did know exactly what rase was best.
B: Its was just a random pick and every 1 picked XAN.
C non above

best regards kilroy

Sid ordered most of us to go xan or we would be kicked

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by AzureWrath

Sid ordered most of us to go xan or we would be kicked

Isn't that relieving? Finally being able to talk about it. It's not good when you crop up everything

[Nology]

I find it odd that someone is going to sit here and complain about being out played at a game in which they have to make up some crazy thing about a 'secret stat'. 1up planned better, attacked better and pretty much did everything better then any other alliance in the universe. Sure it doesn't hurt they have 100 members but in the end even that doesn't matter. They cover every defense needed and still own galaxies every night. They're better then you just accept it. I'm in a very good alliance that gets hit by 1up. It frustrates me to death but I look at their attacks and I have to applaud. I mean planning a waved attack for three to four ticks straight on a whole galaxy? That is so perfect that they take into account everything needed to be? Come on man you have to applaud them for that. 1up is better then you, better then the rest of us this round. Next round, try and beat'm. That's what I'll do.

As for the rest of it and Sid exploiting some secret stat, I think that has been covered already. It is an excuse to make you feel better about being out played. 1up is the better alliance this round and they might be next round as well but don't just sit there and complain and whine about it. Do something about it like actually trying to take them on. "They're too big!", that is what you want to say, right? Are they? So they average 3-4 mill per planet. You think they didn't work for that? They aren't any bigger in the long run then the next person they just knew how to do what they were doing and they did it better then the rest of us. You can beat them you just have to be willing to lose ships in the process. That is peoples problems. You have to be willing to give something to gain it. Sure you don't want to lose 10k in ship value for 2k in roid value but in the end if you lose 10k ship value, the guy your attacking looses over 100k in value and you walk away with 2-4k in roid value is it a loss? In a combined attack or by yourself? You just whupped the guy and that's that.

1up can be attacked, they can be beat. You just have to be willing to deal with the anvil that follows. I suppose that's all from me but I can tell you one thing, 1up ain't the bad guy in the end. They busted hump to get where they are, they deserve your praise not your whining.

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally Posted by ComradeRob

Zhukov in not checking the facts before posting shocker!

btw, Xan has always been the best race in random rounds - r8 and r9.5 were both won by alliances with a high concentration of Xans. Low initiative + high firepower + low ETA are the perfect combination for random rounds.

If I had checked, I wouldnt have asked, would I? Thats why I asked, and admited I was wrong.
(You should try it once, for instance in the politics thread were Lokken is owning you in every sence, to admit your wrong )

What you wrote about random rounds, I totally agree too.

[Razorback]

totally unrelated to the silly accusations it would indeed be interesting to hear what total %
have been choosen from the players.
How many signups for each race and how this weight is deployed over the top5-10 alliances.
Since its end of round it might be an interesting feature to add for the public (as i know most alliances have this data internally already, atleast for the active playing part of the universe).

Disclaimer: i only checked pilkara so far, so if this information is publically available anywhere else just gimme a link.

[Treveler]

Sandmans has a race stat here: http://www.sandmans.co.uk/?p=racestats

It would be interesting to know the numbers of each top 10 ally tho.

[Kjeldoran]

tbh, I doubt that entire 1up decided to go XAN. Even a noob like me chose to play XAN, and I never played a single beta. Tbh there's no excuse if you think you chose the wrong race and 1up nor Sid got anything to do with it.

Tbh these accusations are abit pathetic. But so are alot of things lately so continue ...

[Nadar]

Well.. I picked xan, so I can't complain really Xan is overpowered.. fools said terran were at start of round

[Chika]

actually, after looking, Zik is the dominant race. But Xan is dominant over Terran. Thus XAN being the race to be because more targets, for minimal losses. If people chose ZIk or XAN they were smart. If they choose terran they were short sighted. And if you choose cath, you were not trying to win.

[McIvan]

The way I looked at it was this:

During beta, it seemed like the Terrans were performing the best, although in retrospect it was more a case that they had the more survivable fleets while asleep.

So, thinking that a lot of people would choose Terran based on the beta, I chose Xan. I think quite a lot of people did the same.

A lor of people DID choose Terran, for whatever reason, so it has worked out well.

McIvan

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by Chika

actually, after looking, Zik is the dominant race. But Xan is dominant over Terran. Thus XAN being the race to be because more targets, for minimal losses. If people chose ZIk or XAN they were smart. If they choose terran they were short sighted. And if you choose cath, you were not trying to win.

n00b

cath > * :P

[Dinobot]

Idd

Cath > *

Anyone with enough foresight could see with 40% of the universe going Terran the race that is best suited towards taking out Terran will be most dominant... and the race best suited to take out the most dominant > *

Xan rapes Terran, Cath rapes Xan - nuff said

[cypher]

tbh saying 95% is utter BS ... heh:S and everyone here knows it. if 1up had 95% xan we'd be the easiest targets anywhere... as we basically would be shit.

now as for my personal choice of race... i tend to think terran is just taking the easy way... (note i never know anything about stats and just have a simple rule of more ships kill more.) cath is basically lame... without killing enemies there isn't much fun. so i wanted to go zik, however seeing as i was in gal with forest (yes i am still regretting that.) he pushed for him to go zik as he already played it once in pax... so i let him go zik and went xan myself so we could cover each other better...

i've NEVER EVER heard sid say we should go xan. it all depends on how you play

and tbh i didn't even know what fleet to build at all when i started playing this game... i want my old fi/co fleet back for xans with which i could pwn everyone. i miss them

[Storebo]

Originally Posted by Chika

actually, after looking, Zik is the dominant race. But Xan is dominant over Terran. Thus XAN being the race to be because more targets, for minimal losses. If people chose ZIk or XAN they were smart. If they choose terran they were short sighted. And if you choose cath, you were not trying to win.

Yeah.. perhaps.. but zik/cath are easy prey for terran de, so without a good gal, any zik/cath wouldn't get very big. If zik had better de protection i would consider them. =)

So zik should own xan.. but since terran owns zik and since there are way more terrans then zik.. the zik becomes extinct and xan have no natural enemy :P

[cypher]

zik has one of the best anti de in the game((

cutters rock in high numbers ofc... you can raid xans with lancers with it soooo easily

[mazzelaar]

Roach > *

Apart from Viper, which are teh win

[AzureWrath]

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

Roach > *

Apart from Viper, which are teh win

you evil cath lover

it's too bad that more people didn't go cath

[jerome]

Nice flamebait.

[Phant]

Huhmmmm.... to let an alliance HC or something design the ship stats is a really bad idea to say the least. Ok, so they were open,and everyone had the same access to them and the beta so 1up really didnt have any advantage compared to others. But its more a matter of principle and other people in other scenarios may very well have taken advantage of the situation.

Myself I signed up 2 weeks late and had no idea about the races... wish I had taken some time to look at the stats or asked people about them cause now Im stuck with beeing cath. Since Im in a fairly inactive gal and not in any top 5 alliance and gotten some planet naps to others it means I now have 3-6 waves of incs every bloody night. Ters, Ziks and Caths looking for a random target pick caths like me. Xans are also able to attack me for no losses if they want to. So thats 3 races picking on me as a random target, while Xans also would easily take me but thats mainly happens in gal attacks.

Anyway, can someone tell me why Xans should be able to attack terrans for no ship losses? This was one major point of beeing cath (not talking about terrans here, but attacks in general), and now they can do just the same. Only they have the major advantage of killing ships... to me they are now a super-edition of Caths. Plus they dont get nearly as much incs as they are the last choice of race to attack, except for Caths that go Viper heavy. (unless they didnt build any fireblades as anti-fi ofc...)

So yes, a major tweak in ship stats is needed. Everyone are picking on Caths/Ziks except for Xans.. who easily could, but they get to pick on terrans by themselves. So saying that the ship stats would be nice if the races were equally distributed would be very wrong. Caths need to be more overpowered, we need more firepower and well, only the scarabs have any need for armour really, so you can take away some of that if you have to... I dont know for Ziks but they're in deep shit atm too... while Xans just enjoy the good life.

[AzureWrath]

i was typing a reply to that Phant and lost it bah, cba to retype it

[Phant]

Thats ok, Im sure you agreed 100% anyway

I did come up with another thing though... I guess there arent many capable of making decent stats out there (?)

[Nology]

I personally like being Zik. Cutters are a great anti-de ship. The only true downside to Zik is they don't kill anything and when they sub something they don't have enough power to do it on the level that other races can kill.

[Synthetic_Sid]

Originally Posted by Phant

Huhmmmm.... to let an alliance HC or something design the ship stats is a really bad idea to say the least. Ok, so they were open,and everyone had the same access to them and the beta so 1up really didnt have any advantage compared to others. But its more a matter of principle and other people in other scenarios may very well have taken advantage of the situation.

Myself I signed up 2 weeks late and had no idea about the races... wish I had taken some time to look at the stats or asked people about them cause now Im stuck with beeing cath. Since Im in a fairly inactive gal and not in any top 5 alliance and gotten some planet naps to others it means I now have 3-6 waves of incs every bloody night. Ters, Ziks and Caths looking for a random target pick caths like me. Xans are also able to attack me for no losses if they want to. So thats 3 races picking on me as a random target, while Xans also would easily take me but thats mainly happens in gal attacks.

Anyway, can someone tell me why Xans should be able to attack terrans for no ship losses? This was one major point of beeing cath (not talking about terrans here, but attacks in general), and now they can do just the same. Only they have the major advantage of killing ships... to me they are now a super-edition of Caths. Plus they dont get nearly as much incs as they are the last choice of race to attack, except for Caths that go Viper heavy. (unless they didnt build any fireblades as anti-fi ofc...)

So yes, a major tweak in ship stats is needed. Everyone are picking on Caths/Ziks except for Xans.. who easily could, but they get to pick on terrans by themselves. So saying that the ship stats would be nice if the races were equally distributed would be very wrong. Caths need to be more overpowered, we need more firepower and well, only the scarabs have any need for armour really, so you can take away some of that if you have to... I dont know for Ziks but they're in deep shit atm too... while Xans just enjoy the good life.

Caths can attack xans for no ship-loss. Your problem isn't that your race sucks, it's that your galaxy (and alliance?) suck. Joining PA late and being in a weak a galaxy has always been a recipe for wall-to-wall inbound - no tinkering with ship-stats would change that.

[Wandows]

Originally Posted by Synthetic_Sid

Caths can attack xans for no ship-loss. Your problem isn't that your race sucks, it's that your galaxy (and alliance?) suck. Joining PA late and being in a weak a galaxy has always been a recipe for wall-to-wall inbound - no tinkering with ship-stats would change that.

i think we had this discussion before. Yes Cathaars can easily attack Xans, given they know what they need for it. Point however is that CR def is so easy to come by and eta 9 anti-FR opens a few more interesting options aswell its nearly impossible to get a attack landed unless you are lucky that you caught them of guard (hooray for eta 9 incoming..)