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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 16:56   #1
Zar
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Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

EDIT: BBC has changed the link to something more favourable. Bastard government gets away again from one of my cheap hate speeches. Grrr!

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Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize


The government may intervene to prevent a convicted rapist from receiving his £7m lottery winnings, Culture Secretary Tessa Jowell has said.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3557372.stm

For some reason i find this incredibly wrong. No matter what is social status is - he should get his full money. None should go to pesky "rape" victims (half of who make their claims up in order to screw over men - thank you female biased laws). Regardless of that no one "deserves" to win the lottery, everything is gained through sheer luck - and he had the right luck on that day.

Plus he is nearing the end of his sentence... he has already been punished for his crime.

Goddamn intervening government

Anyone else find this totally unfair?

Last edited by Zar; 12 Aug 2004 at 18:05.
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 17:01   #2
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

Not really no. Frankly I find it hilarious.
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 17:08   #3
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

i find it completely and utterly stupid and unfair myself.
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 17:19   #4
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

Would anyone care if it was a burglar?
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 17:20   #5
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

He should be allowed to keep it all. He has served his time and did nothing wrong by buying the ticket. Anyway, if he has the money he will be able to look after himself comfortably and I would imagine is less likely to commit anymore crimes but if they take the money off him it would just make me extremely bitter. In that case I would think he is more likely to commit more crimes.
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 17:23   #6
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

As unpleasant as it might be to some people, he should be allowed to keep the money. I don't think the government should be able to decide who "deserves" to win the lottery.
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 17:33   #7
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

Quote:
Originally Posted by midge5
He should be allowed to keep it all. He has served his time and did nothing wrong by buying the ticket. Anyway, if he has the money he will be able to look after himself comfortably and I would imagine is less likely to commit anymore crimes but if they take the money off him it would just make me extremely bitter. In that case I would think he is more likely to commit more crimes.
I think the reasoning there would be that 7 million would be able to prevent more crimes if the government used it than if said rapist kept it.



PS They haven't actually taken it off him yet, right now they just won't allow him to touch it as they fear he could use the money to leave the country (he's still doing time).
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 17:33   #8
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
For some reason i find this incredibly wrong. No matter what is social status is - he should get his full money. None should go to pesky "rape" victims (half of who make their claims up in order to screw over men - thank you female biased laws). Regardless of that no one "deserves" to win the lottery, everything is gained through sheer luck - and he had the right luck on that day.

Plus he is nearing the end of his sentence... he has already been punished for his crime.

Goddamn intervening government

Anyone else find this totally unfair?
I hope he rapes you and uses his money to hire the best lawyers to get him off
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 17:38   #9
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

He shouldnt have to give it back.

Will all other criminals who have lost money on the lottery be refunded?
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 17:40   #10
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

I think the bottom line is the government cannot pick and choose who wins the lottery. If they want to restrict it in this way then they have to restrict who can purchase tickets in the first place. This guy has bought his ticket and won, and while I don't think he should have access to the money while serving his sentence (incase he pays someone £7 mill to build a sophisticated tunnel system in manner of the great escape) I don't think the government should have any right to take the money off him altogether.
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 17:42   #11
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

he'll get sued to fk for it by his victims now anyway.
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 17:45   #12
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

if they don't give him the money they should refund him and everyone else who seems inapropriate to win the lottery whatever they have invested over the years.
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 17:47   #13
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

He shouldn't be allowed to use it until he gets out of prison, but they shouldn't take it off him.

He is paying his due to society, so why not let him keep it?
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 17:51   #14
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

i hope ms jowell gets ****ed in the arse hard, by 4 aidsridden negros.



really, this is an outrage if he doesn't get his undeserved money. (i am not being sarcastic, he doesn't deserve it, but face it, neither do his victims, they should've bought a ticket themselves)
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 17:52   #15
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

Quote:
Originally Posted by at0mic.c0w
if they don't give him the money they should refund him and everyone else who seems inapropriate to win the lottery whatever they have invested over the years.
That's ridiculous, if they do take the money off him they're doing it to aid society (ie rape victims or potential victims of crime). It will not aid society to give money back to thousands of criminals. It's quite probable that the money will literally help to save lives if the government seize it, should the happiness of one convicted rapist be worth more than that?
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 17:57   #16
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
That's ridiculous, if they do take the money off him they're doing it to aid society (ie rape victims or potential victims of crime). It will not aid society to give money back to thousands of criminals. It's quite probable that the money will literally help to save lives if the government seize it, should the happiness of one convicted rapist be worth more than that?
however it is grossly unfair to have allowed criminals to purchase tickets legally, when the government had plans to stop them from keeping their winnings.

Hence everyone who "gambled" on the lottery shouldnt have bothered - because they would have lost all their money had the government had their way.

Also criminals lives arent worth less than non-criminal person(s) lives. We are not deitys to assume that. They are only locked up because society does not accept their beliefs.

plus on my usual note: the government (is) full of bastards - anything to oppose them
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 17:59   #17
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

I wouldn't be opposed to using the money to compensate victims, but only as part of a broader policy of compensations. I believe that criminals should perform some useful kind of work whilst in prison, and some/all of the money made from this work should be used to compensate victims.

However, arbitrarily confiscating £7m from this guy purely because he's on the front page of every newspaper would be a cheap stunt. It would be unfair to treat him differently from other prisoners (he can't be the only prisoner to ever have won lottery money, or won at any other form of gambling), and it would set a worrying precedent for the government intervening in private matters.
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 18:00   #18
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
however it is grossly unfair to have allowed criminals to purchase tickets legally, when the government had plans to stop them from keeping their winnings.

Hence everyone who "gambled" on the lottery shouldnt have bothered - because they would have lost all their money had the government had their way.
I think that's a fairly ridiculous claim. There's absolutely no proof anyone had the intention in any of the previous governments (or even recently in this one). Plus the government lies to everyone, check the constitution (all eight gazillion pages of it).

Quote:
Also criminals lives arent worth less than non-criminal person(s) lives. We are not deitys to assume that. They are only locked up because society does not accept their beliefs.
This is such crap I actually hope you die. He wasn't put away for stealing a loaf of bread to help his starving family or for copyright evasion.

Quote:
plus on my usual note: the government (is) full of bastards - anything to oppose them
Check the link again heh
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 18:02   #19
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
It's quite probable that the money will literally help to save lives if the government seize it, should the happiness of one convicted rapist be worth more than that?

No, but the government should have thought of this kind of situation beforehand. If they don't want prisoners to play the lottery, then they shouldn't be able to buy tickets, even if on day release. David Blunkett is just a complete **** up at the moment.
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 18:06   #20
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
However, arbitrarily confiscating £7m from this guy purely because he's on the front page of every newspaper would be a cheap stunt. It would be unfair to treat him differently from other prisoners (he can't be the only prisoner to ever have won lottery money, or won at any other form of gambling), and it would set a worrying precedent for the government intervening in private matters.
It's not really that arbitrary though. The government are just setting an upper limit on what criminals are allowed to win through gambling. Taking twenty grand off a few inmates who won at poker won't make that much difference pragmatically speaking. Seven million will.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarina Joy
No, but the government should have thought of this kind of situation beforehand. If they don't want prisoners to play the lottery, then they shouldn't be able to buy tickets, even if on day release. David Blunkett is just a complete **** up at the moment.
Society (and the individuals composing it) shouldn't suffer because the government didn't legislate properly beforehand. They probably saw this as such a long shot that it wasn't worth wasting tax-payers' time and money over. However now it clearly is.
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 18:06   #21
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Check the link again heh
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 18:07   #22
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

Radio 1 says he's keeping the money.I don't think it should be taken away from him, but in future prisoners should be banned from the lottery for the duration of their sentences. I also hope he loses every penny to his victims.
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 18:07   #23
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
That's ridiculous, if they do take the money off him they're doing it to aid society (ie rape victims or potential victims of crime). It will not aid society to give money back to thousands of criminals. It's quite probable that the money will literally help to save lives if the government seize it, should the happiness of one convicted rapist be worth more than that?
consider this to be you first warning for trolling GD (no really)
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 18:07   #24
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

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Originally Posted by at0mic.c0w
consider this to be you first warning for trolling GD (no really)
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 18:10   #25
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

This is such crap I actually hope you die. He wasn't put away for stealing a loaf of bread to help his starving family or for copyright evasion.
just because he rapes people doesnt make him wrong - grr this requires a whole new thread on "morality and ethics: is there such thing as 'right' or 'wrong'?" but im too lazy to bother with that now
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 18:11   #26
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Society (and the individuals composing it) shouldn't suffer because the government didn't legislate properly beforehand. They probably saw this as such a long shot that it wasn't worth wasting tax-payers' time and money over. However now it clearly is.
That's fair enough Jay - I don't disagree that the Government should legislate so that prisoners cannot play the lottery. What I am saying is the Government haven't legislated and now they're trying to save face. I just don't think they should be allowed to say 'We hadn't thought of this and now it's happened so **** it we're going to randomly make up rules for this specific case' which from my viewpoint is exactly what they're doing.
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 18:14   #27
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
johnny in a world where people can be killed legally (death penalty, war after war etc..). rape pales in comparison.
Some people may deserve to die. I doubt you'll find that many people against the results of the nuremberg trials for example.

Quote:
just because he rapes people doesnt make him wrong

Quote:
- grr this requires a whole new thread on "morality and ethics: is there such thing as 'right' or 'wrong'?" but im too lazy to bother with that now
Give something back to GD and make the thread man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarina Joy
That's fair enough Jay - I don't disagree that the Government should legislate so that prisoners cannot play the lottery. What I am saying is the Government haven't legislated and now they're trying to save face. I just don't think they should be allowed to say 'We hadn't thought of this and now it's happened so **** it we're going to randomly make up rules for this specific case' which from my viewpoint is exactly what they're doing.
They're not doing that sar. Check the link again.
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 18:18   #28
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Some people may deserve to die. I doubt you'll find that many people against the results of the nuremberg trials for example.
this is me we're talking about jbg - if you have a good memory you will know exactly what i think of the holocaust...and the hypocrisy of the allies in the war

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Give something back to GD and make the thread man.
fine i shall stirr up something later tonight if im not out gambling my money away in poker :gollum:

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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 18:24   #29
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

Heh.

The story on the bbc site has changed now. Previously it was very much saying they were going to take the money from him - clearly it has been updated. ****ing BBC keeping their site up to date - bastards :|

(((Anyhoo while I realise they had these ideas on the table beforehand, I still don't think the government should be allowed to put into force laws which have not gone through parliament because the home office deems it appropriate in a specific case. It defeats the point of having a ****ing parliament in the first place.)))
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 18:24   #30
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

If he becomes a millionaire he might be able to get consensual sex instead.
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 18:26   #31
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
this is me we're talking about jbg - if you have a good memory you will know exactly what i think of the holocaust...
I'm sure most of us can think of someone who committed a crime deserving of death. Maybe it's christopher columbus or pizzaro or cortes or adam smith for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by queball
If he becomes a millionaire he might be able to get consensual sex instead.
I'd have consensual sex with him for a million quid.
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 18:28   #32
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I'm sure most of us can think of someone who committed a crime deserving of death. Maybe it's christopher columbus or pizzaro or cortes or adam smith for you.
well to play a fair game....ive always fancied the thought of bush, blair and sharon being killed slowly in the most horrible of ways
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 19:16   #33
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

He wont lose anything. There was at the time no pending legislation which could have removed the cash from him, the government simply cannot produce backdated legislation for anything legally, regardless of what nutjobs like Blunkett and Jowell think, and have you noticed that the last 3 "Kneejerks" from Blunkett & Pals have been in relation to a sensational headline in one specific newspaper.

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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 19:17   #34
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

I think we've sorted out that question is no longer whether he will lose the prize kura, but rather whether he should lose the prize.
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 19:24   #35
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I think we've sorted out that question is no longer whether he will lose the prize kura, but rather whether he should lose the prize.
No

He should not have been allowed to enter in the first place, but regardless of what the evil bastard has done in his past, theres no reason why he shouldnt keep the prize. To consider taking it off him is to say theres such a thing as a "morality police". Society judged him for what he did, hes serving a prison sentence, and when he comes out hes going to be a rich man, and contrary to popular belief, hes a convicted sex offender with the highest profile in the country, and no amount of cash is going to change the fact his life will be ****ing ruined, and he will not be able to live anything remotely close to a normal life when he leaves prison, and hes going to be forced by others inside to pay a lot of money until he does to keep him safe. If you think a prison warder on £16,000 a year is going to protect a sex offender when the guy is worth £7M without a ****load of cash secretly going his way, you have far too naive a view of prisons.
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 19:25   #36
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

There is no valid reason why the prize should be withheld from him.

Of course, a convicted rapist who has ruined the lives of several women becoming a well-todo millionaire is a fairly revolting idea, but then life isn't fair. A lottery is based on a purely random selection, and the person who turns out to be the winner should receive his prize regardless of social status or background.
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 19:29   #37
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

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Originally Posted by Leshy
There is no valid reason why the prize should be withheld from him.

Of course, a convicted rapist who has ruined the lives of several women becoming a well-todo millionaire is a fairly revolting idea, but then life isn't fair. A lottery is based on a purely random selection, and the person who turns out to be the winner should receive his prize regardless of social status or background.
Jonathan King
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Millionaires. Convicted Paedophiles. I havent seen the government try and take their money from them yet.
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 19:31   #38
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

My point exactly.

It's not the government's position, nor that of the lottery to impose some sort of moral judgement about whether they'll grant the winner his or her prize.
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 19:33   #39
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

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Originally Posted by Kurashima
Jonathan King
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Millionaires. Convicted Paedophiles. I havent seen the government try and take their money from them yet.
And nor should they. If they earned their money, subsequent crimes don't detract from the value of their earlier achievements (the exception being if they gained their money through illegal means).
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 19:41   #40
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshy
My point exactly.

It's not the government's position, nor that of the lottery to impose some sort of moral judgement about whether they'll grant the winner his or her prize.
If it was, where do you stop? How far down the line do you start making a moral code? Its Big Brother gone mad. Welcome to 1984.
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 19:42   #41
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
And nor should they. If they earned their money, subsequent crimes don't detract from the value of their earlier achievements (the exception being if they gained their money through illegal means).
If you bought a shitty 80's pop single, you probably gave money to Jonathan King
If you bought a shitty 70's compilation, you probably gave money to Gary Glitter
If you bought a Lotto Extra ticket, you gave money to a convicted rapist.

Wheres the line Rob?
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 19:51   #42
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

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Originally Posted by Kurashima
To consider taking it off him is to say theres such a thing as a "morality police".
There is. I don't understand what you think the police do if it's not enforce a moral system of living.
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 19:54   #43
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
There is. I don't understand what you think the police do if it's not enforce a moral system of living.
I saw someone spitting on a 6yr old girl in Northern Ireland a few years back because she was catholic and going to school in a protestant area. I dont recall the "morality Police" arresting the person and saying "you cant play the lottery from now on, because youre a complete ****ing scumbag".
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 19:56   #44
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurashima
I saw someone spitting on a 6yr old girl in Northern Ireland a few years back because she was catholic and going to school in a protestant area. I dont recall the "morality Police" arresting the person and saying "you cant play the lottery from now on, because youre a complete ****ing scumbag".
If you want to argue with the police unequally applying all laws that's a different matter. As well as this spitting on someone can hardly be considered as bad as being a multiple rapist.
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 20:03   #45
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
If you want to argue with the police unequally applying all laws that's a different matter. As well as this spitting on someone can hardly be considered as bad as being a multiple rapist.
Maybe its just me, but i reckon the act of spitting on a 6yr old and subjecting her to verbal abuse is a pretty ****ing serious crime. And i didnt see any arrests because thats "Acceptable" when youre policing in Northern Ireland.

Its child abuse here. Its not physical, its mental. Shell remember it the rest of her life.

Which is no better or worse than rape in my mind. Its going to be with that kid for the rest of her life, just as any rape victim will have to relive their ordeal for the rest of their lives.
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 20:06   #46
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWSBOT3
he'll get sued to fk for it by his victims now anyway.
apparently they cant, there is a time limit in which you can sue someone for something like that (so i read somewhere)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
That's ridiculous, if they do take the money off him they're doing it to aid society (ie rape victims or potential victims of crime). It will not aid society to give money back to thousands of criminals. It's quite probable that the money will literally help to save lives if the government seize it, should the happiness of one convicted rapist be worth more than that?
i can only assume you're trolling because thats stupid. using that logic everyone who wins the lottery should have the money taken off them, because it is for the greater good of society. you're not a pinko commie are you?!
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 20:08   #47
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

Of course he's trolling.

You'll have Ayn Rand spinning in her grave.
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 20:10   #48
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

Don't respond to Jonny, he's just a troll. Once he's bored and all the arguments have been defeated he'll simply post "lol, you're all taking this seriously!" or something.

p.s. Tessa Jowell is my MP I think.
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 20:15   #49
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurashima
He wont lose anything. There was at the time no pending legislation which could have removed the cash from him, the government simply cannot produce backdated legislation for anything legally, regardless of what nutjobs like Blunkett and Jowell think, and have you noticed that the last 3 "Kneejerks" from Blunkett & Pals have been in relation to a sensational headline in one specific newspaper.

"They say jump you say how high"
Not exactly true; retroactive laws are sometimes considered approriate, particularly with copyright.
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Unread 12 Aug 2004, 20:17   #50
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Re: Rapist could lose £7m Lotto prize

This is unfair guys. I think the authoritarian side of this debate is being seriously under-represented. In our rush to confirm the civil rights of a violent convicted multiple rapist we're ignoring whether or not he should be entitled to win millions of pounds while doing his time.
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