Elysium WON!!

[TheACE]

http://sonnenbomber.fackelmeer.de/xto.txt

after reading this, i didnt only think less of Elysium, but also of a player.

THIS is realy NOT how the game should be, please can we go back to an honarable game? This sucks

[xtothez]

So what was soooo bad about that?

Fact: We underestimated the offense Eclipse and ToT would take to the recruits.
Fact: ToT wanted revenge on Heartless, it became their primary military priority short of winning the block war.
Fact: Before Fang were knocked from #1 several ToT had agreed to join Ely ingame and prevent a win.
Fact: Certain recruits were using Elysium as a means to hit Eclipse/ToT and try to provoke war, while relying on the protection of Elysium to do so.
Fact: Several of these recruits were planning to leave Elysium as soon as they were sure Eclipse wouldn't win the round.
Fact: Contary to popular belief, these players were recruited as a long-term advantage rather than a short-term 'lets-win-r10' deal. Obviously it was impossible to weed out all the ones taking advantage before their joined, so instead they were allowed in where we could watch them best.
Fact: I was no longer happy with the idea of winning the round with hostile members, and Elysium HC didn't want to renege on the EET agreement just to win the round.

Solution: Kick the hostile recruits (i.e., not all recruits) to deny them their chance at splitting EET, give ToT their revenge by allowing them to roid said hostiles, while using the already earlier proposed arrangement to keep Elysium on top by a means that keeps the members happy.

Result: As usual, Sonnenbomber is stuck so far up Focht's ass he immediately pastes our conversation to him, tells me to **** off for having the gall to even consider correcting our misjudgements, then spends several hours plotting over options of how Eclipse and ToT can bring Ely from #1 without appearing the bad guys and breaking the alliance.

• Talking to Irvine and getting him to make the recruits join Dragons
• Talking to existing ely members to try and make them leave ingame on the final tick
• Pasting the conversation to Heartless himself.

Once I realised the extent our allies would go to in order to deny us a win, I stopped caring.
I stopped resolving friendly fire, I refused to auth retals and would always defend against unathed ones.

I realised we had made oversights in taking on the hostile recruits. I accepted that people were offended. I tried to keep several parties happy by correcting our mistakes but keeping our members who deserved #1 on top. But I underestimated how easy it is for certain people to hold a grudge and resort to petty 'get-even' tactics rather than attempt reconcillation.

I speak now not on behalf of Elysium, but on a personal note only. I have enjoyed working with the fine players in Eclipse and ToT command this round. This does not apply to Focht and Sonnenbomber, who can consider this to be my personal "**** you" statement. You have done everything possible to undermine our alliance while appearing to be the good guy. You have done everything you could behind the scenes to ensure you finished first and to hell with anyone else. Well played. I can only hope the next allliance you convince to flak you won't be as naive as I was.

[Queen DAX]

Originally Posted by xtothez

So what was soooo bad about that?

Fact: We underestimated the offense Eclipse and ToT would take to the recruits.
Fact: ToT wanted revenge on Heartless, it became their primary military priority short of winning the block war.
Fact: Before Fang were knocked from #1 several ToT had agreed to join Ely ingame and prevent a win.
Fact: Certain recruits were using Elysium as a means to hit Eclipse/ToT and try to provoke war, while relying on the protection of Elysium to do so.
Fact: Several of these recruits were planning to leave Elysium as soon as they were sure Eclipse wouldn't win the round.
Fact: Contary to popular belief, these players were recruited as a long-term advantage rather than a short-term 'lets-win-r10' deal. Obviously it was impossible to weed out all the ones taking advantage before their joined, so instead they were allowed in where we could watch them best.
Fact: I was no longer happy with the idea of winning the round with hostile members, and Elysium HC didn't want to renege on the EET agreement just to win the round.

Solution: Kick the hostile recruits (i.e., not all recruits) to deny them their chance at splitting EET, give ToT their revenge by allowing them to roid said hostiles, while using the already earlier proposed arrangement to keep Elysium on top by a means that keeps the members happy.

Result: As usual, Sonnenbomber is stuck so far up Focht's ass he immediately pastes our conversation to him, tells me to **** off for having the gall to even consider correcting our misjudgements, then spends several hours plotting over options of how Eclipse and ToT can bring Ely from #1 without appearing the bad guys and breaking the alliance.

• Talking to Irvine and getting him to make the recruits join Dragons
• Talking to existing ely members to try and make them leave ingame on the final tick
• Pasting the conversation to Heartless himself.

Once I realised the extent our allies would go to in order to deny us a win, I stopped caring.
I stopped resolving friendly fire, I refused to auth retals and would always defend against unathed ones.

I realised we had made oversights in taking on the hostile recruits. I accepted that people were offended. I tried to keep several parties happy by correcting our mistakes but keeping our members who deserved #1 on top. But I underestimated how easy it is for certain people to hold a grudge and resort to petty 'get-even' tactics rather than attempt reconcillation.

I speak now not on behalf of Elysium, but on a personal note only. I have enjoyed working with the fine players in Eclipse and ToT command this round. This does not apply to Focht and Sonnenbomber, who can consider this to be my personal "**** you" statement. You have done everything possible to undermine our alliance while appearing to be the good guy. You have done everything you could behind the scenes to ensure you finished first and to hell with anyone else. Well played. I can only hope the next allliance you convince to flak you won't be as naive as I was.

just a couple of questions.

As a true and loyal ally why didnt you jsut tell everyone to fk off ?
If everyone wanted to join you just to screw the ranking of eclipse who is yoru "ally" why not stand up and say no ?
why not accpet a honarable 2nd place knowing you fought the war and help the eet side win ?

you seem to make it sound like this is all somone else fault. Was beign number 1 worth all this ?

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by TheACE

THIS is realy NOT how the game should be, please can we go back to an honarable game? This sucks

When the **** did we have that? First three weeks of round one? This game was more fun when it was less honourable than this and tot/eclipse would have spent the last week attempting to completely nail elysium.

[K-W]

Cheers JonnyBGood. Enough with the honor bs. This is a fricken war game. If we didnt have this silly ally for life bs, wed have had a clear winner and the round would have been alot more fun. Heck, I might still be playing.

[Razorback]

Normally your facts wouldnt be more worth than a simple haha, but since its xmas and i feel for whatever reason, call it boredom, the need to reply, here is it:

Originally Posted by xtothez

So what was soooo bad about that?
Fact: We underestimated the offense Eclipse and ToT would take to the recruits.

that is a lie, you did not, since you planned to recruit the whole time with tot or fang to ensure a final victory. How we felt about protecting 42 planets - some hostile in a very open way - like heartless - was never in your consideration and everyone with a clear sense would have seen the offence to it.

Fact: ToT wanted revenge on Heartless, it became their primary military priority short of winning the block war.

understandable, considering Heartless was a officer-spy/traitor to them who caused alot of shit and tried to harm them in any possible way. You as allies should have respected that but cherrios lied more then once about hearless nature in Elysium and sneaked him in the ingame alliance till ely could defend him because (and those are his own words) he feared that heartless had too much influence in the recruits to make them leave.

Fact: Before Fang were knocked from #1 several ToT had agreed to join Ely ingame and prevent a win.

thats right, ToT decided to fight on since not all their members could survive.

Fact: Certain recruits were using Elysium as a means to hit Eclipse/ToT and try to provoke war, while relying on the protection of Elysium to do so.

and you were cowards enough to tolerate that, if you knew those intentions why did you accept them in the first place?

Fact: Several of these recruits were planning to leave Elysium as soon as they were sure Eclipse wouldn't win the round.

if you knew that how comes you didnt do anything to support your EET-allies against that, infact you prevented all of those, even those who violated the eet rules from us for 72h.

Fact: Contary to popular belief, these players were recruited as a long-term advantage rather than a short-term 'lets-win-r10' deal. Obviously it was impossible to weed out all the ones taking advantage before their joined, so instead they were allowed in where we could watch them best.

this is clearly show in the log and because you considered the longterm effects you took in ppl like heartless and signed the deal with irvine (whos 9 CLOSED planets you had also in the list of protection, just incase they got reopend). a worthy addition i may say

Fact: I was no longer happy with the idea of winning the round with hostile members, and Elysium HC didn't want to renege on the EET agreement just to win the round.

considering this log is not even 72h after you presented us the joining wish, it seems you considered you options very well and seeing the outcome of it you cared so much about anything apart from a recruit win and your happyness didnt change 2 much (Senaterlog needed where he even accuses others of the traiterous behaviour of your new recruits?)

Solution: Kick the hostile recruits (i.e., not all recruits) to deny them their chance at splitting EET, give ToT their revenge by allowing them to roid said hostiles, while using the already earlier proposed arrangement to keep Elysium on top by a means that keeps the members happy.

"we know we did something wrong and want atleast to keep face by correcting it but not risking anything".

Result: As usual, Sonnenbomber is stuck so far up Focht's ass he immediately pastes our conversation to him, tells me to **** off for having the gall to even consider correcting our misjudgements, then spends several hours plotting over options of how Eclipse and ToT can bring Ely from #1 without appearing the bad guys and breaking the alliance.

he informed me about it indeed, consdiering him a friend and very good ally.

• Talking to Irvine and getting him to make the recruits join Dragons
• Talking to existing ely members to try and make them leave ingame on the final tick
• Pasting the conversation to Heartless himself.

dunno if you wish to go on with your generalisations but i have far more amuseing logs of senater and dragons to provide or where senater was told by irvine the story you mention above.
Nevertheless i tried to get ahold of stress who wasnt seen for ages to atleast find a peacefull situation till the end of the round. Repairing Elysiums reputation was never my goal. You ruined that yourself so swallow the bit you took.

Once I realised the extent our allies would go to in order to deny us a win, I stopped caring.
I stopped resolving friendly fire, I refused to auth retals and would always defend against unathed ones.

funny how you realise this abit late and dont think other alliances felt the same when you showed them your great plan because simply that was the first sour feeling everyone had.

I realised we had made oversights in taking on the hostile recruits. I accepted that people were offended. I tried to keep several parties happy by correcting our mistakes but keeping our members who deserved #1 on top. But I underestimated how easy it is for certain people to hold a grudge and resort to petty 'get-even' tactics rather than attempt reconcillation.

your members deserve more than a recruited #1 spot, if you had taken ppl from ToT even from Eclipse or NOS it might have given you somekind of justification as those were brothes in arms but for the last 100h to take in a bunch of hostiles who did hit you the whole round and had effectively no meaning to you (you didnt care who they were or how good they fit or even any kind of recruiting process seeing -heartless-) apart from "score".

I speak now not on behalf of Elysium, but on a personal note only. I have enjoyed working with the fine players in Eclipse and ToT command this round. This does not apply to Focht and Sonnenbomber, who can consider this to be my personal "**** you" statement. You have done everything possible to undermine our alliance while appearing to be the good guy. You have done everything you could behind the scenes to ensure you finished first and to hell with anyone else. Well played. I can only hope the next allliance you convince to flak you won't be as naive as I was.

Since Sonnenbomber is ToT i doubt your statement applies. If you are silly enough to believe what you just wrote im sure you believe your lies about the recruits aswell so i cant help you on that.
If it wasnt for me/Sonnenbomber/kal NoS-ToT-Eclipse would have gone to war with you.
I have alot of respect for Stress since he signed the agreement with us in the start of the round and ppl like butter and snowseal who infact i call friends. Your cowardice and stupidity/greed on the otherhand i have only disgust for.
However future rounds may go, in the end this round was won by a cooperation of alliances (a block) as usual. Even with all grudges and all pettyness from all sides noone will deny the elysium soldiers their well fought victory.
Im not so sure everyone has the same feeling about their hc team.

P.S. it makes my day to see the pain from this IRC erupt in you and how you try to insult me after it washed away your arrogance and broke you network of lies apart. considering i had it for now almost the whole time i waited especially till now so it wouldnt do any damage to Ecl/elysium, since i dont play anymore for eclipse in pax
You may see it as my "fk you" statement and im very sure you enjoyed it.

[JonnyBGood]

On the plus side if there ever is a r11 eclipse and elysium should bring some vague semblance of excitement to the game by utterly ****ing nailing each other for the entire round

[Razorback]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

On the plus side if there ever is a r11 eclipse and elysium should bring some vague semblance of excitement to the game by utterly ****ing nailing each other for the entire round

and you my friend are a fool to have any dreams or hopes about a r11 :Gandalf: ( a sauron smiley is missing)

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Razorback

and you my friend are a fool to have any dreams or hopes about a r11 :Gandalf: ( a sauron smiley is missing)

I started playing every single other online game in an attempt to find something decent and they were all shit. Hopes for r11 are the only thing I have left or, god forbid, I'm going to have to start attending college :(

[Razorback]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

I started playing every single other online game in an attempt to find something decent and they were all shit. Hopes for r11 are the only thing I have left or, god forbid, I'm going to have to start attending college

wait on WoW it looks decent and knowing blizzardgames it will pull alot of fresh players so we can all shout "hahahaha newb" or "pwned you n00b" and "damn im so fkin 1337" again something lose in pa atleast 2 rounds if not even 5-6 ago.

[JonnyBGood]

I'll join it, play 24 hours a day for five weeks, lose whatever passes for roids these days and quit in a huff :)

[Kjeldoran]

Xto, I think infact you're one of the main responsible Elysium command member that spoiled the honourable and fine reputation Elysium once had. You recruited (MASSRECRUITED) tons of players, players you fought a war with and players that you called cheaters before. You don't expect 10% of them to stay do you? I think not a single shipjumper joined Elysium cause they wanna stay there. Don't tell yourself lies so it wouldn't feel so silly m8, what you did was probably the most dishonourable way to win a round, not only towards the neutral players, but mainly towards your allies.

rgds Kj

[Razorback]

Originally Posted by K-W

Cheers JonnyBGood. Enough with the honor bs. This is a fricken war game. If we didnt have this silly ally for life bs, wed have had a clear winner and the round would have been alot more fun. Heck, I might still be playing.

If your post wasnt full of flaws and missunderstandings of the political situation of this round / gamemechanics i would point out i agree with you. But hence it fails on the prior im inclined to say you know not enough to make such a judgement.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Razorback

If your post wasnt full of flaws and missunderstandings of the political situation of this round / gamemechanics i would point out i agree with you. But hence it fails on the prior im inclined to say you know not enough to make such a judgement.

bitchfighting, this is what we wanna see

2 former Fury execs ...

I put 200 on Focht

rgds Kj

[Razorback]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

bitchfighting, this is what we wanna see

2 former Fury execs ...

I put 200 on Focht

rgds Kj

i wouldnt dare to bitchfight kev, just stateing that he doesnt know all facts of this round due to his early retirment, something im honestly jealous about

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

You don't expect 10% of them to stay do you? I think not a single shipjumper joined Elysium cause they wanna stay there.

I'd be very surprised if over half stayed. 10% might, those who got new loyalty for Xmas.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Razorback

i wouldnt dare to bitchfight kev, just stateing that he doesnt know all facts of this round due to his early retirment, something im honestly jealous about

oi you ...

I'll change it, put 200 on Germania, hopefully he's not a scared german

rgds Kj

[K-W]

Originally Posted by Razorback

If your post wasnt full of flaws and missunderstandings of the political situation of this round / gamemechanics i would point out i agree with you. But hence it fails on the prior im inclined to say you know not enough to make such a judgement.

Huh?

Focht. My post barely even mentioned this round. Permanent blocks are terrible for this game. They always have been and they always will be. I participated in them as a Fury HC and as an eclipse HC member, I dont fault anyone for doing so, but you should know as well as I that permant blocks are stupid. Alliances should fight for themselves and not be bound by silly concepts of loyalty or grudges. Those two things have been ruining PA for a long time.

Other than saying that we may have had a single winner I didnt make any claims about PAX and if that is what you are disagreeing with, I imagine you are being a little short sighted, as it would have changed the entire round from day 1, but regardless, I should have said "may have had a single winner".

Not sure why you are calling me out on this.

And Kjeldoran, betting against me is never a good idea. But you always were one for longshots

[Zh|l]

Originally Posted by K-W

Huh?

Focht. My post barely even mentioned this round. Permanent blocks are terrible for this game. They always have been and they always will be. I participated in them as a Fury HC and as an eclipse HC member, I dont fault anyone for doing so, but you should know as well as I that permant blocks are stupid. Alliances should fight for themselves and not be bound by silly concepts of loyalty or grudges. Those two things have been ruining PA for a long time.

Other than saying that we may have had a single winner I didnt make any claims about PAX and if that is what you are disagreeing with, I imagine you are being a little short sighted, as it would have changed the entire round from day 1, but regardless, I should have said "may have had a single winner".

Not sure why you are calling me out on this.

And Kjeldoran, betting against me is never a good idea. But you always were one for longshots

I now enter the ring to agree with Germania.

Anyone want to change their bets?

[Zh|l]

Originally Posted by Razorback

If your post wasnt full of flaws and missunderstandings of the political situation of this round / gamemechanics i would point out i agree with you. But hence it fails on the prior im inclined to say you know not enough to make such a judgement.

Except he is right. He wasn't directly referring to the Eclipse/Elysium situation - and we both know (even in my retirement) that it was not "honour" and some fickle thing as such that kept the agreement together.

Germania is correct - treaties that result from such are bad things (generally). I personally believe that zeal is something the alliances need again - people who truely want their alliance to win and will do anything to achieve this.

I am too zealous for a sole leadership role - I would end up attacking everyone at some point - damn the consequences (as long as I smell a whiff of victory.)

[Doorsdown]

good job elysium

[Razorback]

Originally Posted by K-W

Huh?

Focht. My post barely even mentioned this round. Permanent blocks are terrible for this game. They always have been and they always will be. I participated in them as a Fury HC and as an eclipse HC member, I dont fault anyone for doing so, but you should know as well as I that permant blocks are stupid. Alliances should fight for themselves and not be bound by silly concepts of loyalty or grudges. Those two things have been ruining PA for a long time.

i agree with that part but tbh we both know in the past the grudges kept alot of the gameplay interesting, imagine a r4 without the beating of round 3 and therefore without the hatred vs Fury/legion and or the other rounds which brough alot of hatred. Usually every round how big the blocks were was only focussed around the hatred between 2-3 alliances. The motives might have been different but in the end it was down to Fury/Legion vs Xanadu for quiet some time.
Without belitteling or downgrading any other alliances i am honestly thinking that this situation became a main track of pa which was only broken by the dissappearing of those mainforces (something like babylon 5 when the old races left). Nevertheless r9 had a pretty much open playfield in the start everyone was open to basically everything and therefore a new "era" not neccessarily a judgement of how good/bad it was, started.

Other than saying that we may have had a single winner I didnt make any claims about PAX and if that is what you are disagreeing with, I imagine you are being a little short sighted, as it would have changed the entire round from day 1, but regardless, I should have said "may have had a single winner".

The problem with earlier rounds take i.e. r3 compared to newer ones is the much smaller runtime in ticks compared with the much smaller playersbase and the overall higher organisation of the existing alliances.
This brought more and more a longterm thinking in the game, noone wants to burn all bridges because after a reset youll face new and old enemies again. Alongside the fact the possibility of new allies shrank roundwise due to a degernerating playerbase i think anyone was concerened to be not all alone in the end with the whole universe hunting you.

Apart from this general resume i think you cant compare PAX with oldschool Pa. Simply from the fact a "winning" is nearly impossible or a very very long process due to gamemechanics and the characteristical boredom this game offers to the players which forced many ppl to quit and costed alot of motivations from the alliances to keep themself intact.
It should tell you something that alot of alliances failed or just stopped in the middle of the round, while others degenerated to a shadow of theirself only appearing as a conglomerate of letters instead as a display of strength in rankings.

[Storebo]

Originally Posted by xtothez

Stress never really left, he just inactive for a while due to lack of home internet.
Sakera would have accepted the Fang recruits then kicked+roided them just before the end to satisfy his rampant roidlust, before suiciding his fleet on Focht for his 'witty' AD comments.

So you're basically saying Eylisia looked after Ely?

My alltime favourites was allways Soben and Stress. Might be because of my time with them in gals and in close cooperation. Never felt the same when Soben left =/
Didn't like Eylisia much before we ended up in cluster together. Weird how things turns out :P
Racer/Eylisia was the old respectable people, who looked out for the honour code of Elysium. Soben was the military guy, who allways dreamt of a strong Elysium and brought forth great ideas. Stress was the politician and realist. Koloth was the brush of new wind for a while who brought Elysium back on track for a while, of course with the help of the current hc's and command at the time. He was the man for that time in Elysium history.

To bad Soben left. Allways the one to keep me on track. A great friend and a great hc. Greatly missed him the last rounds I played. Might be why I didn't play with my heart after he left. We where a great team. Whole of the Adelante gal in round 6.

Elysium was at its finest for a while. Different characters for each task. A strong loyal command who had lasted for rounds. End of round 4 to round 6, the command structure was virtualy the same. A family more then an alliance.

[Storebo]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

So now you're so full of yerself that you claim FAnG never was a challenge? FAnG was the better alliance most part of the round. Fact that we screwed it in the end it thx to FAnG HC (me) and NOT cause Elysium was breaking us. I'm not bittered, these are just simple facts that you nor anyone can deny.

If you so dearly believe you deserve that spot and if you think those recruits are loyal to FAnG then that's your choice, but let's not fool the rest of the community or try to make the rest to believe the same. You as a old ely player, you should know the value of loyalty and you surely know what their loyalty is worth = 0. You know their reason of joining, you know why you did it. Live with it, we all know how Ely won and nothing will change a damn thing about it.

Nonetheless, and I mean that, Ely played a fantastic round and was with Eclipse the hardest battle (and I think most challenging) FAnG ever had to fight in our 4 rounds old existance.

Why can't you as Ely command not show atleast some inch of respect to the rest? Don't expect others to return it if you can't give it.

rgds Kj

Elysium wasn't the only ones recruiting this round. Dragons got some members from Seraphim. NoS and hirr joined tags. Eclipse got about 20-30 players from Virus. And Elysium got about the same number from FAnG.. Reasons for the FAnG players joining should be just about the same as the other examples. Why did Virus pick Eclipse to join? First of all the wanted their own alliance to win, not seeing this happen they wanted Eclipse to win. I'm sure many of them really respect Eclipse for what they have achieved this and other rounds. And I'm sure many of the FAnG players felt the same about Elysium.

[Storebo]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

typical Ely, quoting parts of a post but not getting the clue or the important part. I never claimed all my members are loyal (I mean those that ran to you sure are loyal ...). You bitched at me aboug FAnG cheaters, mainly about Zerocore. Irvine is a proven cheater and closed. Yet you make a deal with him and allow zerocore, of which you were 100% certain that he cheated, to join your alliance?

How can you justify that? How can you, the one screaming about FAnG cheaters justify the fact that you let those you accused an entire round to join your alliance to achieve a fake victory. A victory that is based on score of another alliance, score that is based on planets that YOU personally think are major cheaters ...

1 conclussion, according to your own logics, Ely's score is that big cause they cheated, cause you claimed those top planets were all cheaters ...

rgds Kj

You said they wasn't cheaters. U didn't lie did u? Or are they inocent until proven guilty or until they leave FAnG?

[Aaranaf]

Originally Posted by Storebo

Eclipse got about 20-30 players from Virus. And Elysium got about the same number from FAnG.. Reasons for the FAnG players joining should be just about the same as the other examples. Why did Virus pick Eclipse to join? First of all the wanted their own alliance to win, not seeing this happen they wanted Eclipse to win. I'm sure many of them really respect Eclipse for what they have achieved this and other rounds. And I'm sure many of the FAnG players felt the same about Elysium.

i went to Eclipse regarding ViruS members 1st. i planned to speak to others, but it felt it wasnt needed after our lil meeting as they were willing to provide us what we wanted. When i learned that Killghost was in my galaxy this round it reminded me of some of our good ol times with "those ol Fury boys" and the fact that they were very successful both in round 9 (i had admiration for the fact that the literally beat the livig snot out of ViruS) and their efforts so far in PaX. we were also cooperating to our very limited extent with Eclipse and co in their efforts against FAnG and whatnot.

Upon the Eclipse HC's acception of our demands (no acolyte basically) we figured we had established a safe home where our members could show what they really have in this game, and be supported with the backings of a successful alliance.

ViruS didnt have 30 active members upon our disbandement, and upon us folding, even fewer of us existed in the realm of planetarion as many quit with their home. some went to vision (many of the madcows who had joined us after madcows folded) and i know of a few who went to fang (icewind ect). in the end maybe ~15 tops went to Eclipse with maybe ~10 staying until the end (many decided planetarion wasnt planetarion without their ViruS).

Eclipse by no means accepted 30-40 members from ViruS whom they had worked so hard to destory for 95% of the round. They honourably accepted a group of members from a deceased alliance in a way to keep them together- there wasnt much to profit from gaining us.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Storebo

You said they wasn't cheaters. U didn't lie did u? Or are they inocent until proven guilty or until they leave FAnG?

IF I recruited them then yes, you'd have a point. What my opinion was about them doesn't matter. I still believe they are innocent untill proven differently. Elysium and Xto on the other hand use other methodes. They , and even you, yelled those are cheaters. Yet when their nice score come your way, then you suddenly shut up?

How do you justify that? I still haven't heared a single reason mentionned that justifies recruiting players that you yelled "CHEAT" at, and we're not talking about 1 or 2 players, more about 10-15 that you all considered cheaters.

rgds Kj

[AzureWrath]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

IF I recruited them then yes, you'd have a point. What my opinion was about them doesn't matter. I still believe they are innocent untill proven differently. Elysium and Xto on the other hand use other methodes. They , and even you, yelled those are cheaters. Yet when their nice score come your way, then you suddenly shut up?

How do you justify that? I still haven't heared a single reason mentionned that justifies recruiting players that you yelled "CHEAT" at, and we're not talking about 1 or 2 players, more about 10-15 that you all considered cheaters.

rgds Kj

bah, still cheaters :-D

[xtothez]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

IF I recruited them then yes, you'd have a point. What my opinion was about them doesn't matter. I still believe they are innocent untill proven differently. Elysium and Xto on the other hand use other methodes. They , and even you, yelled those are cheaters. Yet when their nice score come your way, then you suddenly shut up?

I personally recruited cheating Fangs in the same way you personally recruited cheating Touriquet, UDK, Sjor, Waku, Irvine...

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by xtothez

I personally recruited cheating Fangs in the same way you personally recruited cheating Touriquet, UDK, Sjor, Waku, Irvine...

5 vs 15 ...

you recruited 3 times more cheaters then I did, nice job m8

rgds Kj

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by xtothez

I personally recruited cheating Fangs in the same way you personally recruited cheating Touriquet, UDK, Sjor, Waku, Irvine...

still, how do you or Elysium justify it? plz tell me one good explanation for it, tbh I'd give money for it that you cannot find something that justifies etc but nm

rgds Kj

[xtothez]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

still, how do you or Elysium justify it? plz tell me one good explanation for it, tbh I'd give money for it that you cannot find something that justifies etc but nm

rgds Kj

We claimed you had cheating members as AD propaganda.

easy when you think about it!

[Storebo]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

IF I recruited them then yes, you'd have a point. What my opinion was about them doesn't matter. I still believe they are innocent untill proven differently. Elysium and Xto on the other hand use other methodes. They , and even you, yelled those are cheaters. Yet when their nice score come your way, then you suddenly shut up?

How do you justify that? I still haven't heared a single reason mentionned that justifies recruiting players that you yelled "CHEAT" at, and we're not talking about 1 or 2 players, more about 10-15 that you all considered cheaters.

rgds Kj

Don't know all their names. And the ones I was yelling cheaters at where the members that was currently closed in FAnG. U said u wouldn't remove them until PA deleted them. I had a different opinion about that since Elysium acted differently regarding a similare matter earlier in the round. Of course I have mentioned that FAnG had other cheaters then thoose that was caught, but that is just my opinion and I don't belive I have mentioned names, I'm not to into that stuff this round. =)

[K-W]

Originally Posted by Razorback

i agree with that part but tbh we both know in the past the grudges kept alot of the gameplay interesting, imagine a r4 without the beating of round 3 and therefore without the hatred vs Fury/legion and or the other rounds which brough alot of hatred. Usually every round how big the blocks were was only focussed around the hatred between 2-3 alliances. The motives might have been different but in the end it was down to Fury/Legion vs Xanadu for quiet some time.
Without belitteling or downgrading any other alliances i am honestly thinking that this situation became a main track of pa which was only broken by the dissappearing of those mainforces (something like babylon 5 when the old races left). Nevertheless r9 had a pretty much open playfield in the start everyone was open to basically everything and therefore a new "era" not neccessarily a judgement of how good/bad it was, started.



The problem with earlier rounds take i.e. r3 compared to newer ones is the much smaller runtime in ticks compared with the much smaller playersbase and the overall higher organisation of the existing alliances.
This brought more and more a longterm thinking in the game, noone wants to burn all bridges because after a reset youll face new and old enemies again. Alongside the fact the possibility of new allies shrank roundwise due to a degernerating playerbase i think anyone was concerened to be not all alone in the end with the whole universe hunting you.

Apart from this general resume i think you cant compare PAX with oldschool Pa. Simply from the fact a "winning" is nearly impossible or a very very long process due to gamemechanics and the characteristical boredom this game offers to the players which forced many ppl to quit and costed alot of motivations from the alliances to keep themself intact.
It should tell you something that alot of alliances failed or just stopped in the middle of the round, while others degenerated to a shadow of theirself only appearing as a conglomerate of letters instead as a display of strength in rankings.

Yes, grudges were better than nothing, but they were still absolute shit compared to what PA could have been. I suppose watching 2 blocks go at each other round after round was kind of entertaining. But the game would have been about 100x better if some rounds didnt end in 3 weeks because of blocks. If everyone could be a part of something rather than just watching the big superpowers fight. Of the crappy politics of PA, the rivalries were an upside, but it would have been alot better without either the revenge or loyalty.

The tick amount wasnt the reason for thinking about longterm loyatly, it was very simply the nature of the game. Alliances that burned all their bridges (see r4 nos) made themselves pariahs for the rest of PA. Alliances quickly learned that during a round the people you fight start to hate you, so your best bet is to keep your friends close.

I have to strongly disagree with you on this one point. You can very much compare old school PA to PAX. Nothing I have heard or read about this round has differend in any significant way from any other planetarion. Even if winning was hard, obviously it was possible to some extent. You claim your block won. YOu couldnt possibly do that if it wasnt possible to achieve something resembling a victory. I totally understand if it was a slow moving round or whatever, but the fact is, at the end you could tell who had the power and who didnt, you always can. And if you had started PAX with a mentality that wasnt a carryover from many rounds of PA, and had entered aiming to finish #1 on your own, and all alliance had, the round would have been very different. and at the end it would probably be clear which single alliance did the best during the round. That is all im saying and even with my lack of experience in PAX, which I certainly dont care enough to fake, I think that is probably true.

A political landscape full fo self interested alliances aiming only for #1 that round would be infinately more interesting than anything PA has seen for a long time. The problem is that we wont let an alliance do that without punishing them. So I dont blame alliances for doing what they do, I blame the community for making the only possible way to victory blocking.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by xtothez

We claimed you had cheating members as AD propaganda.

easy when you think about it!

lol, I asked for decent reasons, not ****ed up lies ... You insulted and bitched at PA team when they got re-opened. don't give us this PR stuff, even with you're very low credibility (yes, doubt you got any left after wasting Ely's rep) it's a nice try to fool the pple but well, I think we all know you and what your word means lately

rgds Kj

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Storebo

Elysium wasn't the only ones recruiting this round. Dragons got some members from Seraphim. NoS and hirr joined tags. Eclipse got about 20-30 players from Virus. And Elysium got about the same number from FAnG.. Reasons for the FAnG players joining should be just about the same as the other examples. Why did Virus pick Eclipse to join? First of all the wanted their own alliance to win, not seeing this happen they wanted Eclipse to win. I'm sure many of them really respect Eclipse for what they have achieved this and other rounds. And I'm sure many of the FAnG players felt the same about Elysium.

that's a load of crap. Dragons and eclipse didn't even recruit asmuch pple together then Ely did in the end. As Aaranaf said, not THAT much Virus pple went to Eclipse etc. Also, stop pointing to " ohhh look, they did it aswell". I'm FAnG, I confront you with it, you cannot claim we recruited an alliance or tried to or anything.

Storebo, just for once think about the facts. Did Virus had a war with Eclipse? Did Serapim had a war with Dragons? Both were ****ing allied, hence the recruiting isn't to save score or roids or to piss off other allies. But what ely did was recruiting the following

- hostile planets they fought an entire round
- shipjumpers who left FAnG and joined Ely to piss off Eclipse
- Top planets who ALL got closed at some point and of which YOU pple yelled cheat at the entire rond
- pple that have no plans to stay in Elysium or who don't even like and respect Elysiumµ

and aside from that, you tried to recruit Tot aswell, which proves you ONLY did it to have this current fake and hollow victory. Ely was even prepared to sell out members to other alliances to end #1. (like heartless to tot). That's howmuch Ely command gives about their members. First they recruit them under false intentions, and later they were gonna USE the members to play as bait in a deal with their allies.

I understand why Xto can be proud of this, but you? Don't fool yourself in thinking ANYONE has more respect for you or for elysium atm. Atleast be man enough to admit it was a ****ed up way to win a game. Look at AzureWrath, he atleast is grown up to realize all this.

rgds Kj

[Storebo]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

that's a load of crap. Dragons and eclipse didn't even recruit asmuch pple together then Ely did in the end. As Aaranaf said, not THAT much Virus pple went to Eclipse etc. Also, stop pointing to " ohhh look, they did it aswell". I'm FAnG, I confront you with it, you cannot claim we recruited an alliance or tried to or anything.

Storebo, just for once think about the facts. Did Virus had a war with Eclipse? Did Serapim had a war with Dragons? Both were ****ing allied, hence the recruiting isn't to save score or roids or to piss off other allies. But what ely did was recruiting the following

- hostile planets they fought an entire round
- shipjumpers who left FAnG and joined Ely to piss off Eclipse
- Top planets who ALL got closed at some point and of which YOU pple yelled cheat at the entire rond
- pple that have no plans to stay in Elysium or who don't even like and respect Elysiumµ

and aside from that, you tried to recruit Tot aswell, which proves you ONLY did it to have this current fake and hollow victory. Ely was even prepared to sell out members to other alliances to end #1. (like heartless to tot). That's howmuch Ely command gives about their members. First they recruit them under false intentions, and later they were gonna USE the members to play as bait in a deal with their allies.

I understand why Xto can be proud of this, but you? Don't fool yourself in thinking ANYONE has more respect for you or for elysium atm. Atleast be man enough to admit it was a ****ed up way to win a game. Look at AzureWrath, he atleast is grown up to realize all this.

rgds Kj

Well theese members as u call them where just after making a war with eclipse. Own agenda. Xtothez realized he could never trust them and felt used. In his place, would u not consider kicking thoose guys out? People have recruited hostile planets in every round of planetarion. Whenever an alliance goes down, the winning side is there to take in the hostiles decent players.

As Xtothez mentioned earlier, he underestimated how his allies would react to this move. Where would the FAnG players go if not to Elysium? They wanted to steal the victory from Eclipse and also create a war between Eclipse and Elysium. Elysium secured a EET victory.

[K-W]

This is an odd excuse really... I think its safe to hold ely responsible for the types of people it brings into its alliance and protects. So the fact that Xtothex got buyers remorse and realized that alot of the people he brought in shouldnt be protected or in his alliance just supports what others are saying. Ely irresponsibly took in players it shouldnt have.

[Le Mauvais Moine]

Originally Posted by Razorback

i agree with that part but tbh we both know in the past the grudges kept alot of the gameplay interesting, imagine a r4 without the beating of round 3 and therefore without the hatred vs Fury/legion and or the other rounds which brough alot of hatred. Usually every round how big the blocks were was only focussed around the hatred between 2-3 alliances. The motives might have been different but in the end it was down to Fury/Legion vs Xanadu for quiet some time.
Without belitteling or downgrading any other alliances i am honestly thinking that this situation became a main track of pa which was only broken by the dissappearing of those mainforces (something like babylon 5 when the old races left). Nevertheless r9 had a pretty much open playfield in the start everyone was open to basically everything and therefore a new "era" not neccessarily a judgement of how good/bad it was, started.



The problem with earlier rounds take i.e. r3 compared to newer ones is the much smaller runtime in ticks compared with the much smaller playersbase and the overall higher organisation of the existing alliances.
This brought more and more a longterm thinking in the game, noone wants to burn all bridges because after a reset youll face new and old enemies again. Alongside the fact the possibility of new allies shrank roundwise due to a degernerating playerbase i think anyone was concerened to be not all alone in the end with the whole universe hunting you.

Apart from this general resume i think you cant compare PAX with oldschool Pa. Simply from the fact a "winning" is nearly impossible or a very very long process due to gamemechanics and the characteristical boredom this game offers to the players which forced many ppl to quit and costed alot of motivations from the alliances to keep themself intact.
It should tell you something that alot of alliances failed or just stopped in the middle of the round, while others degenerated to a shadow of theirself only appearing as a conglomerate of letters instead as a display of strength in rankings.

How does this long sermon relate to the former insult to Germania ?

[alch]

All of you be man
and next round all alliances should go solo
no use for arbiter anymore, hit every single planet who arent into your alliance
and get over it, Top1 will be top1 solo.
As powerblock, you will always end up stabbing your own allie to be top1 yourself and be over him.

that sad and boring,
we want blood

[Zh|l]

Originally Posted by alch

All of you be man
and next round all alliances should go solo
no use for arbiter anymore, hit every single planet who arent into your alliance
and get over it, Top1 will be top1 solo.
As powerblock, you will always end up stabbing your own allie to be top1 yourself and be over him.

that sad and boring,
we want blood

You're so fked.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Zh|l

You're so fked.

quality reply as usual zhil?

rgds Kj

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by Zh|l

Germania is correct - treaties that result from such are bad things (generally). I personally believe that zeal is something the alliances need again - people who truely want their alliance to win and will do anything to achieve this.

this is so true.

Alliances have forgot the true meaning of "winning".

The early alliances ad it - naps and agreements were there simply as a means to an ends. They would break them and find new allies next round. These days the security of winning as a group have people reaching for justification.

Honour, friendships, the political complexities to name but a few reasons. Ally to that the new complexities of the game and new players will get bored very quickly.

The best years of planetarion was the simplicity, thea ease in which new players could develop and in which old players could grow and fight. People have forgotten the conscepts of "winning" in what is essentially a online database.

Its a shame when you have to gain a few players from another alliance to get the win. A hugely pathetic climax really.

[Zh|l]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

quality reply as usual zhil?

rgds Kj

What more needs to be said?

If he goes into a round with that view, he is going to get fked.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Zh|l

What more needs to be said?

If he goes into a round with that view, he is going to get fked.

yet your help as a PA veteran really is encouraging. Rather not speak unless you got something contructive to add, you don't even know Alch and you've probably never heared of him or talked to him before.

rgds Kj

[Zh|l]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

yet your help as a PA veteran really is encouraging. Rather not speak unless you got something contructive to add, you don't even know Alch and you've probably never heared of him or talked to him before.

rgds Kj

Unless this game has significantly changed on the political side of things, then such a comment is a foolish one to make. If he sticks to that, he is doomed. Quite simple.

I don't need to encourage him, I dont need to "know" him. Hell, you didnt even talk to me till r7 was it? I go by what he posts and so far, Im less than impressed.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Zh|l

Unless this game has significantly changed on the political side of things, then such a comment is a foolish one to make. If he sticks to that, he is doomed. Quite simple.

I don't need to encourage him, I dont need to "know" him. Hell, you didnt even talk to me till r7 was it? I go by what he posts and so far, Im less than impressed.

heh, what you say on AD and what you actually achieve in PA for your alliance are 2 worlds apart, you know that aswell. Alch probably isn't a great "speaker", neither am I, but I wouldn't have let him in charge after I quit if I didn't have faith in his skills.
What he stated are his wishes, though we all know none of that will actually happen in PA. Nonetheless I don't see the need to bitch at a new guy with nice intentions and all.

rgds Kj

(happy newyear btw)

[ronnie]

alch's stmt is correct Zh|l, when a member of a powerblock 'wins' a round there will always be talk bout there win being due to the block and not them individually, a round where every1 is solo means that the #1 is the true #1

[lokken]

Yeah, but those with no political sense and a solo mentality regardless of their military power always get nobbed.

i.e. politics is a part of the game and such a feat will never really happen.

[rnd|One]

Originally Posted by Rumad

Its a shame when you have to gain a few players from another alliance to get the win.

Everyone knew the implications of the rules set for PaX; the 150 player/alliance rule. The combat rules (20% dmg requirement to stop attacker from capping, T1-only targeting) made it hard to be able to inflict much damage to any single alliance, atleast when directly combating one on one. Basically those that were offline and/or in inactive galaxies got beaten down. Rules tweaking for r11 required, as shown by the emotions towards the current rule set on this thread.

However end game in PaX was quite a race. Fang kept its closed players to the end, but got struck down when it was announced that such planets would not count in the end rankings. Dragons almost passed Elysium, making it to around 3M score differential, before Wolfpack realized they could beat Dragons themselves and the player movement to Dragons froze (I suppose Vision got fed up with it too as it was eating their rankings?). Elysium was lacking all round in recruiting and this was nagging us as the ticks closed down for final scores to be calculated. The 72hrs rule made several players wary of switching their alliance and being able to transfer more than a few single players was not an easy feat, as it meant taking away the name of the alliance being sucked dry (eg. killing their efforts for the round). NoS managed to grab hirr, Eclipse took ViRuS and a fang BG, Dragons took Seraphim. I doubt none of their former leaders were too thrilled about this, but it's all in the game and all you can do is keep your chin high and move on in such situations. All within normal round parameters.

With less than two weeks into the end of the round fang committing suicide gave a chance for EET to really take the round, amongst others plans (plunge EET into a war and transfer players into the other block within the final remaining ticks). It was a quite a fierce battle of minds and nobody really knew whom would come on top in the end with all the shit being thrown around. Was it that Focht even said he had Ecl/ToT/NoS ready to kill Elysium? Such preeminent "I willl round up my brothers and sisters and..." rather than "I will..." -attitude in PA. I was suprised nothing happened, because as shown in R9 and yet again evidenced in R10 ToT was pro-Eclipse. I know it was partly due to being December and players being more idle, but Eclipse also faced losing it all - block victory, and number one alliance spot (reminder of R9 to Elysium planet/galaxy -wise). No reason to "lose it all", when you can have "part" of it (victory). With the ticks withering to an end, Eclipse had its hands tied.

The three strongest alliances in PaX were elysium, fang and eclipse. With the "everyone is equal till the end" -growth/combat it was near impossible to distinquish one another in the round. Yet again alliances adapted, blocks formed, alliances fell under pressure and small actions were all it required for setting clear end results.

I don't think Elysium took away from anyone elses victory (fang was dead and eclipse was a close allied 2nd). It just made clear on the rankings what was evident otherwise on the battlefield through activity.

Well played and happy New Year!
/me fires up his .2$ rocket.