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Unread 26 Apr 2018, 16:07   #1
Paisley
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r77 ship stats proposals

Hi folks,
Spoke to jintoa about this thread, if you want to tender your draft for ship stats here is the place.

im going to tender a re-run of r69 stats with a few changes...
http://beta.planetarion.com/history/...?id=4&round=69
(my last set)

Phoenix is eta 12 ship
Dragon is init 6
Bolt thrower is init 7 and is eta 13

Submit your draft stats and give details / information about your line of thought
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Unread 26 Apr 2018, 19:59   #2
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

even a re-run of r72 stats are worth a go
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Unread 27 Apr 2018, 10:09   #3
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

I re-read the r69 threads, and apparently my final verdict at the time as 'interesting but unbalanced'. Given that, I think they're a good starting point: it's the easier of the two to fix in the later stages of stat crafting.

I haven't looked at them in detail, though.
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Unread 29 Apr 2018, 06:43   #4
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
Hi folks,
Spoke to jintoa about this thread, if you want to tender your draft for ship stats here is the place.

im going to tender a re-run of r69 stats with a few changes...
http://beta.planetarion.com/history/...?id=4&round=69
(my last set)

Phoenix is eta 12 ship
Dragon is init 6
Bolt thrower is init 7 and is eta 13

Submit your draft stats and give details / information about your line of thought

What does the change for Dragon int do to change the stats? It still doesn't pre fire BT which is a def ship and you have given the BT a whole extra tick to get at it...

Same with phoenix which was a crap ship in 69. Giving it ally eta doesn't improve the fact it still ints way after xan fi and has t2 on co.

Just looking at the alliance ranks show how this set played out. I would use something different. Quite an overhaul needed on these
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Unread 29 Apr 2018, 10:37   #5
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
What does the change for Dragon int do to change the stats? It still doesn't pre fire BT which is a def ship and you have given the BT a whole extra tick to get at it...

Same with phoenix which was a crap ship in 69. Giving it ally eta doesn't improve the fact it still ints way after xan fi and has t2 on co.

Just looking at the alliance ranks show how this set played out. I would use something different. Quite an overhaul needed on these
We have two completely different views on paisley's post.

* The Dragon init change AND the Bolt Thrower init change makes Dragon prefire BT's.

* Giving Phoenix ally eta changes the fact that the ship can actually be used for defence vs Fi/Co, instead of the few times it gets prelaunched to catch a wave.

* Not sure what I'm looking for at the Planet rankings, even without paisley's suggested changes theres a decent mix of races in the top. (which is factored by politics, player skills etc..)
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Unread 29 Apr 2018, 13:09   #6
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
What does the change for Dragon int do to change the stats? It still doesn't pre fire BT which is a def ship and you have given the BT a whole extra tick to get at it...
When you take my changes on board....
The bolt throw has init 7 and the dragon has init 6 the dragon fire first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Same with phoenix which was a crap ship in 69. Giving it ally eta doesn't improve the fact it still ints way after xan fi and has t2 on co.

Just looking at the alliance ranks show how this set played out. I would use something different. Quite an overhaul needed on these
Am I getting a lecture off someone who has produced the most unplayable set of stats in a good while. all your stats encouraged was bottom feeding whilst leaving the top planets unroidable.

Here what the players want for stats...
No prefire/first cut kill def ships
strong roiding fleets/easy to regain roids
hitting top planets/galaxies
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Unread 29 Apr 2018, 13:53   #7
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
Am I getting a lecture off someone who has produced the most unplayable set of stats in a good while. all your stats encouraged was bottom feeding whilst leaving the top planets unroidable.

Here what the players want for stats...
No prefire/first cut kill def ships
strong roiding fleets/easy to regain roids
hitting top planets/galaxies
The set you proposed is pretty boring though
Combine that with todays alliances, and you got a pretty awfull round on your hands in no time.


I yet again urge the stats admin to go with a set that allows alliances to go for "solid roid class strats", this "mix and match" stuff encourage blocks to be decided preround.
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Unread 29 Apr 2018, 16:16   #8
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
The set you proposed is pretty boring though
Combine that with todays alliances, and you got a pretty awfull round on your hands in no time.


I yet again urge the stats admin to go with a set that allows alliances to go for "solid roid class strats", this "mix and match" stuff encourage blocks to be decided preround.
if i had my way i would make stealers dont die and re-run r14 set.
best stats ive ever played
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Unread 29 Apr 2018, 20:51   #9
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
Here what the players want for stats...
No prefire/first cut kill def ships
strong roiding fleets/easy to regain roids
hitting top planets/galaxies
I'm not sure if the stats can do much to encourage players to hit top planets or galaxies, but the rest looks fine to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
I yet again urge the stats admin to go with a set that allows alliances to go for "solid roid class strats", this "mix and match" stuff encourage blocks to be decided preround.
What do you mean by 'mix and match'?
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Unread 29 Apr 2018, 21:38   #10
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
What do you mean by 'mix and match'?
Stats where you basicly must have 4/5 races included to your allie strat because there is no viable options wich only contains 2/3 races.

Stats set where you had a (lot of) good option(s) with 2/3 races from my memory:

http://beta.planetarion.com/history/...?id=4&round=51
http://beta.planetarion.com/history/...?id=4&round=55
http://beta.planetarion.com/history/...?id=4&round=56
http://beta.planetarion.com/history/...?id=4&round=61
http://beta.planetarion.com/history/...?id=4&round=63
http://beta.planetarion.com/history/...?id=4&round=68



You should be able as a alliance to land another tag based on having a effective ship strat vs theirs, now days by the look of it either you make sure the tag your hitting has 100+ incomming fleets or you simply aint landing roids.
And alliances should be encouraged/able to make decisons based on strategy, instead of just deciding preround they wont hit alliance A/B/C/D and only hit alliance E/F/G for the whole entire 1177 ticks for no good reason what-so-fcking-ever, as every tag got the same 5 races.
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Unread 29 Apr 2018, 21:52   #11
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
if i had my way i would make stealers dont die and re-run r14 set.
best stats ive ever played
Well it could be many funny interactions that would be avaible if you were actualy allowed to cov-ops pods, or make a set that encourage stealing pods as zik/etd.
Sadly the MHs has made it quite clear that this wont be happening cus of the usualy suspects always cheating.
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Unread 30 Apr 2018, 08:04   #12
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Stats where you basicly must have 4/5 races included to your allie strat because there is no viable options wich only contains 2/3 races.

(...)

You should be able as a alliance to land another tag based on having a effective ship strat vs theirs, now days by the look of it either you make sure the tag your hitting has 100+ incomming fleets or you simply aint landing roids.
And alliances should be encouraged/able to make decisons based on strategy, instead of just deciding preround they wont hit alliance A/B/C/D and only hit alliance E/F/G for the whole entire 1177 ticks for no good reason what-so-fcking-ever, as every tag got the same 5 races.
If you send 90 fleets to a grounded alliance with a competent DC, you should not land anything. That's just how the value math works out. Other than that, this sounds fairly reasonable.

On a sidenote, the way you responded to Paisley gave me the impression you feel your vision is not compatible with his. I think it is, though it's obviously possible to have a set that follows one without following the other.
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Unread 30 Apr 2018, 12:41   #13
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
If you send 90 fleets to a grounded alliance with a competent DC, you should not land anything. That's just how the value math works out. Other than that, this sounds fairly reasonable.
If you send 90 FI/CO/CR/BS fleet at a alliance that have a attack fleet that dosnt fire at FI/CO/CR/BS, you should land roids. Unless they have 30 xan def planets/multies.
Thats my whole point having a "rock, paper, scissors" kinda-stats.
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Unread 30 Apr 2018, 21:09   #14
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

Maybe get the thread back to it's core focus? Shipstats?

I made an adaptation to Paisley's R69 stats. My vision was a lil diff than paisley's. Same stats with some tweaks which hopefully supplement it's offensive nature while changing up how the set plays out. Any "constructive" comments are always welcome.

Click here for the adaptation

Click here for the original

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Unread 30 Apr 2018, 21:50   #15
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

looks like im going cath
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Unread 30 Apr 2018, 22:24   #16
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jintao View Post
Maybe get the thread back to it's core focus? Shipstats?

I made an adaptation to Paisley's R69 stats. My vision was a lil diff than paisley's. Same stats with some tweaks which hopefully supplement it's offensive nature while changing up how the set plays out. Any "constructive" comments are always welcome.

Click here for the adaptation

Click here for the original

Can you list every change please
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Unread 1 May 2018, 11:08   #17
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

I still reckon that the bolt thrower should fire after the dragon else it is a 1 fleet stopper

Edit- ter bs is the only fleet that has an ally eta 1 fleet stopper def option

many will avoid ter for this reason
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Unread 2 May 2018, 09:37   #18
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

Emp was lowered from T1 170 => 160 & T2 130 => 125
Bolt thrower was nerfed in AC/DC and now has same init as dragon.

CR BS always has had the ability to be stopped by ally fleets, can't make them unstoppable either. By making it suicide def on a lower AC DC i hope it's more playable now since defenders need to throw alot more value at it while they can loose alot too.

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Unread 2 May 2018, 16:06   #19
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

Stats can now also be found on the beta server:

Stats link

Bcalc link
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Unread 2 May 2018, 16:39   #20
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

Bolt Thrower and Peacekeeper both are BS firing at BS.
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Unread 2 May 2018, 18:24   #21
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

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Bolt Thrower and Peacekeeper both are BS firing at BS.
Error in prepping the server, fixed now
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Unread 4 May 2018, 17:22   #22
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

Alot of work has been done behind the scenes the last few days thanks to a very involved community

For one a 5th race was added to the R69 set which only had 4 races
In order to make this happen some rebalancing had to happen, too much to all list up

Everything is now again on the beta server and available through the previously posted links

Looking forward to your feedback
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Unread 7 May 2018, 06:17   #23
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

List of changes after eorc:

Recluse: changed eta 13 => eta 12
Scarab: Emp vs BS => Norm vs Co
Bolt Thrower: Removed
Harpy: added ter anti fi in co class
Vindicator: ship changed from anti De => anti Fi De
Mantis: De t2 removed
Cutter: Fi t2 removed
Lancer: added as cloaked anti fr for co class

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Unread 9 May 2018, 10:32   #24
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

Another defensive round coming up with these changes.
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Unread 9 May 2018, 17:35   #25
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

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Originally Posted by TheoDD View Post
Another defensive round coming up with these changes.
I was literally thinking this. I was going to quit till Jintao said he was picking the most attacking stats from previous rounds. I agreed when I looked at them, but now they seem to be going in the other direction
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Unread 10 May 2018, 00:04   #26
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

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I was literally thinking this. I was going to quit till Jintao said he was picking the most attacking stats from previous rounds. I agreed when I looked at them, but now they seem to be going in the other direction
How does removing off class def ships and t2's count as defensive?

This is set is a pain in the ass to defend with just needs the final kill switch flicked on xan fi
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Unread 10 May 2018, 02:17   #27
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
How does removing off class def ships and t2's count as defensive?

This is set is a pain in the ass to defend with just needs the final kill switch flicked on xan fi
And when the creator of one the most defensive sets in ages says fi is the issue. Then you know that the rest must be unbalanced.

The way I see it there are 3 races that will be flocked towards:
Zik
Cath
Ter

This set favors these three races WAY too much.
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Unread 10 May 2018, 05:04   #28
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

there are only 2 clear strategies to play.... cruiser zik/cath or xan with def planets ... bs isnt a viable strat v cr and de is underpowered
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Unread 10 May 2018, 06:25   #29
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

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Originally Posted by TheoDD View Post
And when the creator of one the most defensive sets in ages says fi is the issue. Then you know that the rest must be unbalanced.

The way I see it there are 3 races that will be flocked towards:
Zik
Cath
Ter

This set favors these three races WAY too much.
Sorry you misread me. I don't think you are in the stats Chan on tg.

The issue was Xan FR attacking as Fi (wether there or not soaked up all the emp against Fr) it was something that massively overpowered xan. It's been addressed now tho
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Unread 10 May 2018, 10:03   #30
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

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Sorry you misread me. I don't think you are in the stats Chan on tg.

The issue was Xan FR attacking as Fi (wether there or not soaked up all the emp against Fr) it was something that massively overpowered xan. It's been addressed now tho
I don't have to be in a Stats chan to understand how stats work.
I don't need to discuss with the same idiots, on how to make it more defensive for my own selfish reasons round after round.
Either you guys are just playing beta to as I've told Jintao earlier;
* Looking for holes to fill in different strats
* Getting an edge through stats

The beta server should be for pa staff only, and nothing but. They can play around on it during rounds imo and actually be prepared for future rounds.
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Unread 10 May 2018, 14:39   #31
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

What’s wrong with bs?
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Unread 10 May 2018, 18:09   #32
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

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Originally Posted by TheoDD View Post
I don't have to be in a Stats chan to understand how stats work.
I don't need to discuss with the same idiots, on how to make it more defensive for my own selfish reasons round after round.
Either you guys are just playing beta to as I've told Jintao earlier;
* Looking for holes to fill in different strats
* Getting an edge through stats

The beta server should be for pa staff only, and nothing but. They can play around on it during rounds imo and actually be prepared for future rounds.

I'm sorry we aren't currently handing out medals for being a twat.

What was meant was you missed the indepth discussion about the ghost because you weren't there.

I dont think anyone seriously discussing the stats has used anything more than a bcalc to prove a point.

I am in complete agreeance that beta should be solely for finding bugs in New/revamped features by a selected team of testers.
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Unread 10 May 2018, 19:28   #33
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

The latest changes are:

Harpy: Moved phoenix t2 (de) to harpy
De attack fleets: swapped ter & zik inits
Beetle: Swapped t2 (fr) with viper t1 (de)
Mantis: removed
Phantom: Made weaker (ac/dc)
Banshee: Made stronger (ac/dc)
Fireblade: removed
Spectre: T2 vs de added
Pirate: T2 (de) removed
Investor: T2 (co) removed
Recluse: Is now same init with banshee & ac/dc reduction

Think those are all the changes. I'm happy with the set as it's now. I hope to at best only tweak a few minor ac/dc's from now on
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Unread 10 May 2018, 20:06   #34
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

xan will be fast food for DE ships
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Unread 13 May 2018, 04:11   #35
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

It's been a few days without comments and those that have seem satisfied with the stats. Guess it's time to lock em in and call em final so alliances can start planning.

A big thank you to the community for all there input. Without you all the stats wouldn't be where they are today.

May it be a fun round for everyone.
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Unread 13 May 2018, 11:13   #36
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

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Originally Posted by Jintao View Post
It's been a few days without comments and those that have seem satisfied with the stats. Guess it's time to lock em in and call em final so alliances can start planning.

A big thank you to the community for all there input. Without you all the stats wouldn't be where they are today.

May it be a fun round for everyone.

Don't blame the community!!!
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Unread 13 May 2018, 14:05   #37
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

I look forward to playing these stats
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Unread 15 May 2018, 04:35   #38
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

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I look forward to playing these stats
seconded
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Unread 16 May 2018, 21:10   #39
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

Perhaps the Scarab could be eta 12, or 13 at most?
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Unread 16 May 2018, 21:57   #40
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

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Perhaps the Scarab could be eta 12, or 13 at most?
Thank you for pointing that out. Obviously it was meant to be eta 12
Also doublechecked the rest, cutter was supposed to be eta 14 not 13
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Unread 20 May 2018, 00:42   #41
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

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Originally Posted by M0RPH3US View Post
seconded
Im not even sure what stats is being ran
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Unread 20 May 2018, 01:16   #42
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

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Im not even sure what stats is being ran
Funny clown
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Unread 20 May 2018, 01:50   #43
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

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Im not even sure what stats is being ran

Its a hybrid of r69 and jintao editing
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Unread 20 May 2018, 01:51   #44
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

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Originally Posted by TheoDD View Post
Well i got that much, but the set i last looked at had 4 races, guess i stopped paying attention a long while ago.
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Unread 20 May 2018, 01:53   #45
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Re: r77 ship stats proposals

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Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
Its a hybrid of r69 and jintao editing
That would explain the 5th race
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