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Unread 30 Apr 2009, 04:28   #501
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Re: R31 shipstats

From the looks of it, it seems that Cath may be over-powered for the first time in a long while

However, its yet to be seen if they can keep up the momentum.
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Unread 30 Apr 2009, 07:35   #502
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Re: R31 shipstats

if you got resource wise beetles freezing 30% more than their own resource cost of xan fr's what are their t2.. and then at t1 it's about 50% more than their resource vs xan co..

Dunno if I calced right.. but if someone got spread sheet.. they should be able to dig up the resource effectiviness.. I just used some efficiency calcs as a pointer.

Can't see cathaars slowing down at all, as they got a viable kill ship what targets fi/co under that beetle(co/fr targetting) umbrella.. then recluse into it.. *hands up and time to burn if you get hit by xan fi/co and cathaar same time*
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Unread 30 Apr 2009, 10:29   #503
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Re: R31 shipstats

Caths have great stats this round but i expect them to drop of one after one as usual. Caths are gonna struggle with cat fi xp runs soon enough.
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Unread 1 May 2009, 12:24   #504
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Re: R31 shipstats

cathaar seem to be strong...a little too strong?
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Unread 1 May 2009, 12:32   #505
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Re: R31 shipstats

As of Tick 160:

1-10:

Cath 6
Etd 1
Ter 1
Xan 2
Zik 0

11-20:

Cat 6
Etd 4
Ter 0
Xan 1
Zik 0

21-30:

Cat 6
Etd 0
Ter 1
Xan 3
Zik 0
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Unread 1 May 2009, 12:38   #506
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Re: R31 shipstats

Caths always start very strong, it'll balance out a bit towards the end, although to what extent is questionable as this round is pretty short.
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Unread 1 May 2009, 12:40   #507
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by _Kila_ View Post
Caths always start very strong, it'll balance out a bit towards the end, although to what extent is questionable as this round is pretty short.
i don't see them peaking and then gradually falling. Cath fi fleet is so insanely strong this round.
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Unread 1 May 2009, 12:49   #508
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by Mek View Post
i don't see them peaking and then gradually falling. Cath fi fleet is so insanely strong this round.
Indd. Not even cath FI can stop it.

Perhaps if cat want to stop that, theyll have to funnel resources into other classes, ergo making their FI fleet weaker.

Imo, cat will (hopefully) be its own leveler.
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Unread 1 May 2009, 14:44   #509
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
Indd. Not even cath FI can stop it.
.
Locusts can stop em in sufficient numbers; just have more than the attacker. A bit messy I agree but its not like nothing can stop em. Whether you will ever find enough locusts is a whole other question.
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Unread 1 May 2009, 18:59   #510
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Re: R31 shipstats

roid the fi caths with bs/cr? if they spread their value they won't be able to stop anything later. its the nature of Cathaaaaaaaaaaaaargh. if you build your fleet around stopping everything, EMP fails really hard.

p.s. landing + exp always favours the emp races early round since the fleets are so efficient (see above).
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Unread 2 May 2009, 01:09   #511
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by Zaejii View Post
roid the fi caths with bs/cr? if they spread their value they won't be able to stop anything later. its the nature of Cathaaaaaaaaaaaaargh. if you build your fleet around stopping everything, EMP fails really hard.

p.s. landing + exp always favours the emp races early round since the fleets are so efficient (see above).
Only idiots build cr/bs.. it's always has been epic fail to build them and will be, as they lack fi/co defence what's always more popular inc form than fr/de or cr/bs.. not to mention a lot faster. Only reason cr/bs worked that well last round was the fact ascendancy took the hits while they where nap:ed with CT... CT's CR/bs fleet owners where a complete fail.. Was watching their fleet compositions last round in top50 and christ sake.. learn to build right ratios is only thing what I can say.
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Unread 2 May 2009, 06:59   #512
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by LordNieminen View Post
Only idiots build cr/bs.. it's always has been epic fail to build them and will be, as they lack fi/co defence what's always more popular inc form than fr/de or cr/bs.. not to mention a lot faster. Only reason cr/bs worked that well last round was the fact ascendancy took the hits while they where nap:ed with CT... CT's CR/bs fleet owners where a complete fail.. Was watching their fleet compositions last round in top50 and christ sake.. learn to build right ratios is only thing what I can say.
Um, is it not possible to build CR/BS + anti FI/CO as a def fleet?

Unfortunately LordN, the effectiveness of CR/BS is often more related to the stats used each round, and the players using them, rather than the eta. In my experience of being a somewhat capable player, the prevalence of anti FI/CO/FR/DE when compared with anti CR/BS more than makes up for any ETA disadvantage.

Pre ticks i tought ETD to BS/ Cat CR or even Wraith only fleets to be some of the superior attack fleets out there. Whilst many people have chosen to roll FI/CO this round, i believe that is due to (occasionally misguided) alliance HC pressure, rather than the awesomeness of the class.
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Unread 2 May 2009, 07:04   #513
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Re: R31 shipstats

lets face it, the 1 round where asc allows members to go cath there are alot of top cath players. Why? because asc got the best players. It IS that simple.
Peronally I went etd to be able to atleast to some extent withstand cath/xan fi/co incs this round....
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Unread 2 May 2009, 15:22   #514
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Re: R31 shipstats

Quote:
Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
Um, is it not possible to build CR/BS + anti FI/CO as a def fleet?
Obviously it is. How then do you defend in-ally versus fr/de? The same can be asked of fr/de fleets as regards anti-fi/co. The effectiveness of cr/bs and fr/de can often be pretty high. Indeed some of the attack fleets that exist in those classes are ****ing awesome. Cath de and etd de as well as xan cr and etd bs are really top quality attack fleets. However anything late round where you have 2 ticks, and 2 chances to cover (ie you can cover using fi/co or fr/de), is going to suffer quite significantly. This is why fi/co fleets always do well late on in the round. Start of the round it's going to be quite good, there's never much anti-cr/bs around that early on. In the endgame you're going to suffer quite badly though.
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Unread 2 May 2009, 16:19   #515
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Obviously it is. How then do you defend in-ally versus fr/de?
I dont see FR/DE as an attacking option this round, bar Wishmaster and his ETD fleet of doom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
However anything late round where you have 2 ticks, and 2 chances to cover (ie you can cover using fi/co or fr/de), is going to suffer quite significantly.
I think this is balanced somewhat by the fact that most 2 tick anti CR/BS this round, in general, gets b0rked (enough) by Wraith/Roach/Pali+Broad/Wyvern. Combine this with the current salvage ratio, and losing def fleets are often not likely to be launched. Going by the calcs ive seen this round, bar emp, it doesnt matter how much def u can scrape together over 2 ticks, cos if CR/BS shoots first, ur not going to have enough salvage around to make defense viable.
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Unread 2 May 2009, 16:37   #516
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Re: R31 shipstats

I'd completely disagree. For one there are 2 emp ships and quite a lot of cath around. The only really painful ship is the wraith, everything else still fires fairly late and not that efficiently bar the emp ships so you're not really talking about getting nerfed out of it. The idea that you can dismiss all fr/de fleets as viable attacking options while in the same breath pointing out that salvage now makes attacking easier is just absurd as well.
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Unread 2 May 2009, 16:43   #517
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
I'd completely disagree. For one there are 2 emp ships and quite a lot of cath around. The only really painful ship is the wraith, everything else still fires fairly late and not that efficiently bar the emp ships so you're not really talking about getting nerfed out of it. The idea that you can dismiss all fr/de fleets as viable attacking options while in the same breath pointing out that salvage now makes attacking easier is just absurd as well.
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Unread 2 May 2009, 16:47   #518
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Re: R31 shipstats

Is a good ship. It will not make attacking with fr/de impossible. Not to ask the question of who will be building them in this cr/bs armada with fi/co class anti-fi/co of yours.
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Unread 2 May 2009, 16:58   #519
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Is a good ship. It will not make attacking with fr/de impossible. Not to ask the question of who will be building them in this cr/bs armada with fi/co class anti-fi/co of yours.
Splitting fleet value into more than 3 ships isnt as punishing as it is with emp. You are not looking to stop people from being able to hit you as with emp, more trying to make people not want to.
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Unread 3 May 2009, 06:06   #520
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Re: R31 shipstats

hehe, my etd fleet of doom!
that being said, I now have around 60-70k fi/co I ve stolen. the tycoon really is awesome! I will eventually have a pretty nice fi/co fleet of my own Also, the banshee -> seriously man, I own them with my defenders. Whats dangerous for me in def is revnants if anything, or ter CO. Thank god the bansh isnt CO, cause then,yes, etd fr would be completely shit.
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Unread 3 May 2009, 07:58   #521
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Re: R31 shipstats

ETD cr/bs with defenders as anti-fi/co class works.. but in the end you'll have too few anti-fi/co ships and you'll get slaughtered by fi/co fleets. Happens every damn round, Only way to survive it is to have a frigging good ingal def what has to save your precious roids every time, not to mention the amount of anti-fi/co ships your ally has to contribute.. Basically cr/bs players are in end of round the def leeches extraordinaree or something like that.. Completely waste of time.

Cr/bs is prolly best offencive early/mid round.. late round no thx, fleet catch options.. the black hole of anti-fi/co ships from ally.

If I would see a frigging one player playing cr/bs without minimium of 50% targetting vs fi/co this round, I would kick him from ally. Don't care how harsh that sounds, but only asc members might be able to pull it out and that's because no1 wants to fight them so they won't have that defence black hole effect.

Anyways people don't really monitor their ally members fleets.. It should be done daily by your military HC if he/she has any brains especially in non-pro alliances to teach their members to play the game if u aren't playing to win.

edit: and ofc I could have been wrong about emp's power this round.. but the planet ranks look tad emp dominated atleast now.. give it one week more and we'll see how it turns.
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Unread 3 May 2009, 12:49   #522
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Re: R31 shipstats

monitor fleets daily with 60-100 members

poor mil hc!

but yes, agreed. cr/bs is useless this round. I left my guardians home to def with them the past 2 nights, ended up not being needed. Says it all I spose
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Unread 3 May 2009, 13:47   #523
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Re: R31 shipstats

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monitor fleets daily with 60-100 members

poor mil hc!

but yes, agreed. cr/bs is useless this round. I left my guardians home to def with them the past 2 nights, ended up not being needed. Says it all I spose
If u don't have time to browse 15 pages of fleet compositions in a day to check if there's some really poor compositions there when your in charge.. is just lazy, as it takes less than 15mins.

Yeps cr/bs is what it is.. waste of time.
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Unread 3 May 2009, 16:32   #524
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Re: R31 shipstats

There's a fundamental problem with current (I mean for the last quite-a-few rounds) stats design.

The more FI/CO fleets there are, the stronger FI/CO is and the weaker CR/BS is (since FI/CO fleets tend to have an attack fleet + anti CR/BS deffleet).

The more CR/BS fleets there are, the opposite occurs.

Therefore CR/BS fleets need to be much stronger on paper than FI/CO fleets. If I were to design stats again I'd go that way (although last time I made xand CR awesome - I overcompensated when people said xand CR would suck)
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Unread 3 May 2009, 20:59   #525
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Re: R31 shipstats

oh well, people could have tried whole alliance going for cr/bs.. and xp their way to win, as everyone knew that fi/co would be very strong this round and rely on the fact that other alliances would be mainly fr/de/fi/co based to force them to use less than 40% of value on anti-cr/bs ships..

It might have worked, but it would require some risk taking and stuff like that.. aka whole ally going for cr/bs etd's with defenders. Then all in the alliance would 2 fleet in 3 man waves minimium.. could have worked with current salvage rules and 7 week round. Would rely a lot on their gals thou to keep the roids for even few days so that their total fleet value doesn't get left behind.. and the fact that they would roid fi/co people day and night the whole round who are in top50.

But that's bit too innovative or out of the box I gues.
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Unread 4 May 2009, 14:53   #526
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Re: R31 shipstats

any alliance basing their strategy around xp play would be an alliance I would never join, and I guess alot others wouldnt either.
ask the ascs who pwned the xp round, it just gets boring
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Unread 4 May 2009, 15:21   #527
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Re: R31 shipstats

These stats are ****ing boring and horrific.

Fi/co all day everyday with a sprinkle of fr/de.

Way to go. Can we start planning next rounds now so they are not as shit as these..? please?
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Unread 5 May 2009, 00:46   #528
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Re: R31 shipstats

GATE, GET OUT OF THIS THREAD







(really.)
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Unread 5 May 2009, 01:51   #529
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Re: R31 shipstats

I guess these stats have taught us one thing, we dont want balanced stats where everyone can fight of everything else.

We want each race to have inbalances, being pwnage at one thing but weak at another. Which forces players to go CR/BS or FR/DE, encourages defence as everyones weak at something and provides a more entertaining round.
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Unread 5 May 2009, 01:57   #530
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Re: R31 shipstats

It took 33 rounds of PA to figure that one out?
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Unread 5 May 2009, 02:07   #531
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Re: R31 shipstats

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It took 33 rounds of PA to figure that one out?
No, just every few rounds someone forgets.
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Unread 5 May 2009, 15:28   #532
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Re: R31 shipstats

Get some real consultants, some others can do the stats but seriously get some real players who understand how the fleets are used with the stats in overrall.. or whatkind of combinations come out from it and let them make sure the stats are changed on the points they agree there's not a single favorite race.

wish, yeps that's pretty much how it goes.. but then again if your loosing why not try something else.

Other sympton in the game is the fact, people think doing waves only by fi/co or fr/de or cr/bs is the way to go. The current stats allow some crazy combinations of fi/co/fr/de atleast but no one uses them because it's easier just to make one sick emp+something wave on targs as emps are so popular due to their kill capacity and ridiculously good targetting and initiave against other fi/co based fleets. Add some anti-fi/co BS/CR to the game.. then we'll get something new and can start laughing again.

Anyways next time.. get those consultants, if they can't agree what races are utterly overpowered the stats are right otherwise there's tweaking to do.
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Unread 5 May 2009, 16:03   #533
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Re: R31 shipstats

I don't see why we can't go back to 2 pod classes.

IMO Xan shouldn't have CR pods. Ter shouldn't have the co pod etc etc.

I believe that is part of what's overcomplicated these stats.
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Unread 7 May 2009, 08:56   #534
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Re: R31 shipstats

Btw, i like the cat DE setup, it gives Cat a chance of not being wtf roidfarms due to emp init 1 aswell as non t2 targetting it. I think there might be a slight problem with the emp eff and Cat being a little OP, but still, at least Cat playable.
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Unread 9 May 2009, 05:41   #535
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Btw, i like the cat DE setup, it gives Cat a chance of not being wtf roidfarms due to emp init 1 aswell as non t2 targetting it. I think there might be a slight problem with the emp eff and Cat being a little OP, but still, at least Cat playable.

'a little overpowered'


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Unread 9 May 2009, 05:45   #536
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Re: R31 shipstats

This is going to be a strange round, in that there's not going to be the firepower around to take down all the big caths before the round ends.
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Unread 9 May 2009, 05:57   #537
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Re: R31 shipstats

once people force them to spread their fleet, while getting their roid count down - others SHOULD catch up. its just a manner of when it will happen.
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Unread 9 May 2009, 09:08   #538
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by Zaejii View Post
once people force them to spread their fleet, while getting their roid count down - others SHOULD catch up. its just a manner of when it will happen.
They don't need to do that.. beetle shoots co. And other fi/co fleets are... gues what.

Anyways you'll see it first hand before round ends, they won't drop anywhere in high numbers as beetle's efficiency vs xan's fi/co/fr fleets is so high that it's ridiculous.. and they kill too so it's just not about getting enough xan fi/co to break the emping.

Anyways you could say the whole round is a " epic fail ".
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Unread 9 May 2009, 09:21   #539
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Re: R31 shipstats

build crbs and outflak their widow forcing them to build more.. that will weaken their fico fleet etc.. it isn't hard - just depends on how much def they leech..
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Unread 9 May 2009, 09:23   #540
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Re: R31 shipstats

haven't read any posts in this thread yet but if noone's said already; these stats are inherently flawed and poorly designed



if it has been said then; i agree.
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Unread 9 May 2009, 09:32   #541
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by Zaejii View Post
build crbs and outflak their widow forcing them to build more.. that will weaken their fico fleet etc.. it isn't hard - just depends on how much def they leech..
and how does these bs/cr dudes keep the roids.. they won't. Common sense mate,

Jerome it's been said.. before even first tick came to play, but what do we old players know according to pa team and their so called testers of stats.
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Unread 9 May 2009, 09:41   #542
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Re: R31 shipstats

they don't have to keep them right away. you wanted to know how to combat the cathaaaaaaaaaaaaarghs, and thats how. you stave off their income and let them get behind with the efficiencies by spreading their fleet out then watch as they die off and can't keep up (or keep their roids).

once your value hits a certain point, exp whoring really isn't an option for winning the round either.
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Unread 9 May 2009, 20:55   #543
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by Zaejii View Post
they don't have to keep them right away. you wanted to know how to combat the cathaaaaaaaaaaaaarghs, and thats how. you stave off their income and let them get behind with the efficiencies by spreading their fleet out then watch as they die off and can't keep up (or keep their roids).

once your value hits a certain point, exp whoring really isn't an option for winning the round either.
young padawan you have still much to learn.. it affects other fi/co races too.. so there won't be enough co still to break beetles... fr/de would still be strong.. but in the end you still have 2 hours to gather enough defence to make their land impossible by just getting that 0 zero fleet of banshees and some anti-fr/de ships what are in co class.

Anyways I'm drunk, going to hit bars with my friends now.
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Unread 9 May 2009, 21:56   #544
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Re: R31 shipstats

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Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
This is going to be a strange round, in that there's not going to be the firepower around to take down all the big caths before the round ends.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordNieminen View Post
young padawan you have still much to learn.. it affects other fi/co races too.. so there won't be enough co still to break beetles... fr/de would still be strong.. but in the end you still have 2 hours to gather enough defence to make their land impossible by just getting that 0 zero fleet of banshees and some anti-fr/de ships what are in co class.
again, people were asking how to bring down the caths - what i've said is how to do it. late sign ups are starting, so make them build cr/bs and keep your fico fleet going if you so choose. by roiding an emp race and halting their income, it stops how much they can build, thus making it hard for them to land. if you don't roid them and keep on them for a day or two, then yes they will get roids back and grow again. the frde fleets will not be big enough to stop fico incs and crbs incs alone - and who will even build a full fleet anyway for that? the caths are building fi+widow. break the emp by sheer numbers (or by causing them to build out of class), starve their income, watch them fall.
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Unread 10 May 2009, 03:05   #545
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Re: R31 shipstats

Yeah, although "starve their income with mass waves" has always been the way to bring big caths down. I'm just curious about whether we'll see it happen this round, given the sheer number of big caths around (Asc actually approved its use for once!), and the shortened length of the round.
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Unread 13 May 2009, 00:48   #546
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Re: R31 shipstats

The caths won't fall this round. Primarily due to the fact they've got the best anti-fi/co in the game, beetle plus locust just being ****ing awesome. The addition of roiding class kill-ships to cath overpowered them basically. I imagine there'll be some fall off but nothing remotely near the level to "bring them in line". You can tell this from the pattern caths have taken in the rankings. Normally what you'd see is the mid-level caths falling down the ranks, so you'd get say 5-6 t10 caths, 30-40 t100, and 25-30 100-200 caths. The numbers in the t100 and 100-200 are pretty similar this round though. There's a bit of fall off after that but to be honest that's mostly because the decent cath planets are t200 heh.
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Unread 13 May 2009, 02:01   #547
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Re: R31 shipstats

Well yeah, I figured there had to be good reasons for you actually using the bastard lovechild race for once, and the absolute overpowering is as good a reason as any.
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Unread 13 May 2009, 18:05   #548
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Re: R31 shipstats

Cat wont need to spread there fleet. With the lack of Cr/bs fleet out there there need to build widows is so small that it wont matter. If people start switching to cr/bs the cats will just roid them ALL day with fi's. If people started this on like tick 100 they might be able to catch up. But as it stands cat are too far ahead for it to make any difference.

All this talk about making Cr/BS stronger to balance out Fi/Co well how about this make Fr/De better against fi/co. They cant defend ally but they can sure as hell defend in galalxy and for yourself. I you start increasing Fr/De effeiceny's to Fi/CO people will start building them. Right now fi/Co has little to fear from fr/De because a) no is building them and b) the have terrible disadvantages vs fi/co. This rounds stats were DESIGNED for Fi/Co to win.

Another solution to the problem was already said. limit the number of fi/co fleets. Go back to just Cat and Xan. Terran dont need one and neither do etd. The reason that people build them is the Little time for defence. That 1 tick is HUGE vs the 2 ticks for fr/de/cr/bs. if its just Cat and xan with fi/co fleets then there wont be as many of them to dominate so the other 3 races will have to got fr/de/cr/bs thus limiting the number of fi/co fleets.
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