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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 01:37   #1
NEWSBOT3
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see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

...because they get themselves arrested for child porn offences

Quote:
The unnamed teenager is accused of sending photos of herself "in various states of undress and performing a variety of sexual acts"
i find it interesting that you can be charged for offences against yourself.
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 02:35   #2
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

**** off
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 02:36   #3
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

Hey Emby, send me some pics, please? I wont even look at them, true story!
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 04:25   #4
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

i don't have a scanner
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 09:05   #5
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

i find that quite odd that you can be charged for willingly posting pictures of yourself - does she go on a sex offenders register i wonder.....
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 09:09   #6
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

If that story is remotely true then the law is even more idiotic than I thought.
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 09:16   #7
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
If that story is remotely true then the law is even more idiotic than I thought.
they are talking about america
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 09:21   #8
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madina
they are talking about america
Either way, hopefully it'll be laughed out of court (if it ever gets there).
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 09:26   #9
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

i am pretty sure it is illegal to take part in pornography when under the age of 18
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 09:29   #10
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Either way, hopefully it'll be laughed out of court (if it ever gets there).
it will end up on judge judy with all the other *important* cases im sure
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 09:29   #11
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by madi
i am pretty sure it is illegal to take part in pornography when under the age of 18
Yeah, the law is pretty stupid I know.

edit : If we take "pornography" in it's widest dictionary definition, I'm pretty sure that's not true, at least with regards to some writing.
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 09:31   #12
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Yeah, the law is pretty stupid I know.

edit : If we take "pornography" in it's widest dictionary definition, I'm pretty sure that's not true, at least with regards to some writing.
i am pretty sure photographs of a 15 year old girl performing sexual acts counts as child pornography

this law i dont happen to think is that stupid
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 09:43   #13
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

"the sexual abuse of children"

Is that herself, then?
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 09:45   #14
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by madi
i am pretty sure photographs of a 15 year old girl performing sexual acts counts as child pornography
I wouldn't count a 15 year old as a "child" in this context.

Let's clarify : You support the prosecuting of a 15 year old girl for taking pictures of herself?
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 09:54   #15
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

i find it a tad strange that you can be charged with offences against yourself :/
plus, why did the police raid her house? tip off? 'yes officer, i just finished having wild sex with some slutty 15 yr old that i met online and she took pictures the minx!'

just a tad strange as i say :/
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 09:56   #16
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
tip off? 'yes officer, i just finished having wild sex with some slutty 15 yr old that i met online and she took pictures the minx!'
Oh come on, like you wouldn't be bragging about it.
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 10:34   #17
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

how about
after pictures of a naked 15 year old girl performing sexual acts were circulated around the internet police traced the origin of them to a house and raided it suspecting a child pornographer
they found a young woman had been taking the pictures of herself
and as it is an offence for anyone under the age of 18 to take part in pornography (like by staring in it or by circulating it to others)
(pretty sure even if it is for her own amusement rather than financial gain)
they arrested her for circulating child pornography

i dont think she should be prosecuted
but the police like people to know that they are watching out for child porn on the internet
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 10:37   #18
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWSBOT34

i find it interesting that you can be charged for offences against yourself.
The same argument goes for drugs and the such, which only cause harm to yourself, however can cause social negative externalities (such as spreading influence/peer pressure etc..)

Same for Child Porn, which helps paedophillia.

This is probably the argument the government use...but then again it is the government!

She shouldn't be prosecuted... but we like in funny times
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 10:48   #19
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by madi
how about
Yeah, I know why it's technically illegal, but the whole incident is a total waste of police time and tax payers money.

So long as you agree she shouldn't be prosecuted, we're in agreement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
The same argument goes for drugs and the such, which only cause harm to yourself, however can cause social negative externalities (such as spreading influence/peer pressure etc..)
Hmmm, I'm not sure. The justification is often given that it's about harmful externalities, but the root justification in law for this kind of nonsense seems to be the idea that the state owns your body (which is why suicide and stuff are illegal). Either way the argument is just as bogus with this as with drugs.

Of course, even if you couldn't be charged, it's possible a very young person being sectioned due to self-harm (say).
Quote:
Same for Child Porn, which helps paedophillia.
Does anyone actually have any evidence for this, or is it just one of those things which "everyone knows"?

p.s. Paedophilia isn't a crime. Child molesting is obviously a differnet kettle of fish.
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 11:11   #20
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

The unnamed teenager is accused of sending photos of herself "in various states of undress and performing a variety of sexual acts" to people she met in online chat rooms

'yes little girl ofcourse i am a 15 year old boy who wont show any of my friends, just a little wider...'

this does need to be brought to the attention of parents
it isnt just meeting strange men you met on the internet that isnt safe

prosecuting her gets media attention
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 11:12   #21
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

Where can I get these pictures?

ahem... it needed saying.

Anyway - Who's gonna press charges?
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 11:18   #22
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by madi
this does need to be brought to the attention of parents
it isnt just meeting strange men you met on the internet that isnt safe

prosecuting her gets media attention
That's possibly the most idiotic reason to prosecute someone I've ever heard.

If you want publicity buy a full-page ad in the New York Times for crying out loud. Don't randomly prosecute people in stupid cases.

Even ignoring the wider ramifications of the freedom arguments involved, how do you think the girl feels? The damage done by her opening her legs on a web-cam is going to be infinitesimal compred to the stress, etc of being arrested and possibly tried.
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 11:19   #23
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by madi
prosecuting her gets media attention
I don't really see the point though; it's not like persuading teenagers by saying 'IT'S BAD, DON'T DO IT' has ever worked for anything. Especially since the only real problem for the girl in question (unlike in DRUGS!, where you can have pictures of crackaddicts, etc) is that she's being prosecuted by the government.
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 11:22   #24
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Even ignoring the wider ramifications of the freedom arguments involved, how do you think the girl feels? The damage done by her opening her legs on a web-cam is going to be infinitesimal compred to the stress, etc of being arrested and possibly tried.
the likelihood is slim that she will get dragged through court

you really believe that people think about others while instigating such things as a crack down on child porn?
this girl is just a statistical positive arrest
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 11:31   #25
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by madi
you really believe that people think about others while instigating such things as a crack down on child porn?
What's the point of criminal justice if we're ignoring the ramifications on people?

The state brutalising people seems to be a bigger danger than slutty teens getting their tits out on IRC.

Besides, if we're including relatively harmless pictures of fifteen year olds as "child porn" then we're devaluing the term somewhat. I'm certainly not for a blanket ban if we're casting the definition that widely.
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 11:39   #26
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
What's the point of criminal justice if we're ignoring the ramifications on people?
How many people are actually happy with the criminal justice system?
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 11:40   #27
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

I hope the media coverage of this encourages more 15 year old girls to send dirty pictures of themselves over the internet.
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 11:43   #28
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
How many people are actually happy with the criminal justice system?
Probably not many, which is why I don't understand people defending it's actions on these forums.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
I hope the media coverage of this encourages more 15 year old girls to send dirty pictures of themselves over the internet.
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 11:44   #29
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Besides, if we're including relatively harmless pictures of fifteen year olds as "child porn" then we're devaluing the term somewhat. I'm certainly not for a blanket ban if we're casting the definition that widely.
what makes you think we are talking about reatively harmless pictures of 15 year olds?
perhaps she was taking pictures of herself inserting cucumbers in her arse while bouncing on a baseball bat on the encouragement of a child porn distributer who then sells the pictures to his pervy customers
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 11:50   #30
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by madi
perhaps she was taking pictures of herself inserting cucumbers in her arse while bouncing on a baseball bat on the encouragement of a child porn distributer who then sells the pictures to his pervy customers
Who is that harming exactly?

What difference does it make what happens to the pictures afterwards? Unless they end up with the girls family or around her school, does it really matter if someone jerks off over them? Is the girl being psychically harmed by every "perv" who opens the picture up?

What if the person she sends the copy to accidentally deletes them? Is it less harmful then?

Obviously I've never met the girl, so I can't comment on her ability to form rational decisions or understand consequences. But there's plenty of 15 year olds who know what they're doing, and if they want to shove cucumbers up their rectums, they can feel free. If she was banging her boyfriend this wouldn't be news. But because she took a few pics, suddenly she's some victim who needs to be brutalised by the state for her own protection?
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 11:59   #31
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by madi
perhaps she was taking pictures of herself inserting cucumbers in her arse while bouncing on a baseball bat
Cucumbers in her arse? Bouncing on a baseball bat? You have a highly imaginative mind!
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 12:00   #32
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
Cucumbers in her arse? Bouncing on a baseball bat? You have a highly imaginative mind!
You just haven't seen enough porn.
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 12:01   #33
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

I think the thread title should be changed to 'this is why teenagers should be allowed on the internet...'
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 12:08   #34
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
You just haven't seen enough porn.
no i have... fruits tend to be put in the womans pussy (i dont think all women especially not 15 years olds, can accomodate something as fat as a cucumber in their arse), and i'm not sure ive seen a baseball bat in a womans **** as of yet... let alone bouncing on one
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 12:44   #35
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius
baseball bats, wine bottles, anything fits in there!
baby's fit in there also! shocking!
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 12:48   #36
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

This thread has taken a definite turn for the worse.
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 12:54   #37
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

Quote:
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This thread has taken a definite turn for the worse.
sorry mrl, i was getting bored writing up a capital gains form for my boss. I saw an opportunity to destroy a thead and took it.
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 12:56   #38
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

I blame Madi.
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 13:42   #39
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

Quote:
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I blame Madi.
me too
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 13:50   #40
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

But you see if this girl is not prosecuted, every single paedo arrested from then on will argue that the girls in their pics were consenting and that noone could prove they didn't post them themselves...
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 14:01   #41
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
But you see if this girl is not prosecuted, every single paedo arrested from then on will argue that the girls in their pics were consenting and that noone could prove they didn't post them themselves...
Not prosecuting someone doesn't create a binding legal precedent...

And I don't think we should prosecute people for posession of child pornography anyway.
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 15:00   #42
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

This would be far easier to address if we just banned cameras to be owned by the public and only operated them at specific state-approved functions.
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 15:13   #43
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

I personally don't understand why we don't all have computer implants in our brains which generate massive electric shocks to anyone who break the law.

Unless you're a child molestor you can't possibly disagree with this policy.
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 15:21   #44
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

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Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
And I don't think we should prosecute people for posession of child pornography anyway.

i dont believe you can mean this
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 15:25   #45
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

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Originally Posted by madi
i dont believe you can mean this
It's the same logic that says you shouldn't prosecute drug users, only dealers. Hardly the most "out there" idea on the entire internet.
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 15:27   #46
Dante Hicks
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by madi
i dont believe you can mean this
Why not?

What "harm" does possessing child-pornography do? Before you start shouting about the evils of child abuse, I obviously agree. But once a picture has been taken, the damage has been done (if it was done in an abusive fashion, some might not be).

I fully support punishing / criminalising anyone producing child-pornography (in it's most obviously form). Hell, get medeival on their arses. I'd probably support a notion to shoot people involved in it.

But once the picture/video/etc has been produced, it's too late to protect the child. Criminalising people jerking off to child porn seems a waste of time, and is probably counter-productive.

Now, I expect you to raise two arguments :
1. Looking at child porn makes you more likely to abuse children than you would otherwise have been.
2. Allowing people to distribute and collect child porn means more children will be abused to feed the market.

Which are two fair enough arguments, but I see no evidence for either of them.
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 15:28   #47
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
It's the same logic that says you shouldn't prosecute drug users, only dealers. Hardly the most "out there" idea on the entire internet.
Yeah, kind of. Drug dealers don't actually do any inherent harm though. Most of the violence, etc is a by-product of it being illegal. Same with selling crap drugs (mixed with other stuff, and so on).

There is nothing inherently wrong with someone cultivating drugs for sale. There is something inherently wrong with abusing children and taping it for sale.
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 15:36   #48
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

Yeah I know. I was going to write that it was just the same form of logical argument and that I don't think there's anything wrong with drugs themselves but I thought that seeing as I've made that argument 2 zillion times before you might not be pedantic this time. Y'know
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 15:38   #49
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Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
as I've made that argument 2 zillion times before you might not be pedantic this time. Y'know
I know you're OK on that score, but there's always some other freedom hating nitwit ready to pounce man. You gotta be vigilant.
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Unread 6 Apr 2004, 15:49   #50
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Exclamation Re: see, this is why teenagers shouldnt be allowed on the internet...

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Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
What "harm" does possessing child-pornography do? Before you start shouting about the evils of child abuse, I obviously agree. But once a picture has been taken, the damage has been done (if it was done in an abusive fashion, some might not be).
Can I assume from this that you're also against restrictions on buying and selling parts of endangered animals (rhinoceros horn, elephant ivory, etc)? I mean, the animal's already dead, right?
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