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3 Dec 2005, 00:37
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,290
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the french
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4491668.stm
Wasn't Napoleon kind of a bad guy?
Seriously, I wonder what they would say if we would be celebrating the 1st of September or or the 22nd of June or something like that.
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im not tolerant, i just dont care.
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3 Dec 2005, 02:06
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#2
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WANNASEEMYNEWCHAINSAW
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Éire
Posts: 2,738
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Re: the french
Well the UK love to remind themselves about the 'Glory Days Of Empire', which clearly were full of nice acts of random kindness and gifts of fluffy kittens to youngsters as they skipped their newly shoe-clad feet to school...
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I came, I saw, I shouldn't mix pleasure with carpentry.
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3 Dec 2005, 02:30
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#3
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Caveat Lector
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 3,038
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Re: the french
Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
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No Napolean was not a bad guy (at first). He unified continental Europe for a brief time and introduced liberal policies and laws including his famous Napoleonic Code. I would argue that he has had a mostly favorable impact on European history. That was until at least he invaded Russia...then everything went downhill. He did earn the name 'Corsican Ogre' however. Those damned royalist! :/
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3 Dec 2005, 11:06
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#4
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: the french
Napoleon was an aggressive imperialist expansionist power-crazed maniac with an inferiority complex due to his diminuitive height. But then again so was alexander the great and he was well cool. Once these things happen a fair while ago and played an important role in your country's history I don't see too much wrong with random celebrations as long as you remember that he actually loads of pretty shitty things that repeating would not be a good idea.
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Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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3 Dec 2005, 13:59
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#5
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: the french
Dometically, Napoleon was almost certainly more enlightened in his policies than any other ruler in Europe at the time, but he was brought down by his expansionism, which eventually resulted in his reach exceeding his grasp. He wasn't a black-and-white, unambigiously 'bad' person in the same way that someone such as, say, Hitler was.
Austerlitz is probably not seen as a particularly 'good' battle to celebrate/commemorate these days in the same way that a Trafalgar or Leipzig is.
Last edited by Marilyn Manson; 3 Dec 2005 at 14:12.
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3 Dec 2005, 14:24
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#6
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overtired
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,900
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Re: the french
anyone who loved water slides can't be all bad
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4 Dec 2005, 00:27
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#7
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Prince of Amber
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 1,313
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Re: the french
It's a battle the French won.
Fought on a cold and misty December morning 200 years ago, the Battle of Austerlitz is widely regarded as Napoleon's masterpiece.
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"We sleep safe at night in our beds because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those who wish to do us harm." -- George Orwell.
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4 Dec 2005, 00:46
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#8
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Caveat Lector
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 3,038
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Re: the french
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
It's a battle the French won.
Fought on a cold and misty December morning 200 years ago, the Battle of Austerlitz is widely regarded as Napoleon's masterpiece.
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Texan is back! <3
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4 Dec 2005, 00:56
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#9
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Caveat Lector
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 3,038
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Re: the french
Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
That he had learnt in history, one of the main reasons hitler lost the war was because he had been uneducated. Therefore he had not learnt of the Russian tactics used against Napoleon's invasion (i.e. retreating and burning the crops). At the time i didn't question why his more learned generals had not pointed this out to old adolf, but then it did take me a long time to believe that people actually lied all the time.
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That's very ignorant. Napolean won every conflict through Russia until he reached Moscow and entered that (abandoned) city and burned it down. When he was unable to negotiate anything with Tsar Alexander, he left. He lost control of his troops on his way back, took a bad route back to Europe that had been destroyed and emptied of it's resources, and faced indirect attacks which so large an army could not protect itself from.
Hitler, on the other hand was successful in Russia because of his general's fast moving war operations, and ultimately unsuccessful for a variety of reasons that include the U.S. entering the war and a disagreement between Hitler and some of his most brilliant generals about giving up ground.
Those two situations have very little in common...
In the first world war, Russia was beaten quickly by the Germans on the Eastern front. (They were having some political problems back at home).
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4 Dec 2005, 00:57
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#10
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Klaatu barada nikto
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,237
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Re: the french
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
It's a battle the French won.
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Good point!
(an oldie, I know, but a goodie)
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The Ottawa Citizen and Southam News wish to apologize for our apology to Mark Steyn, published Oct. 22. In correcting the incorrect statements about Mr. Steyn published Oct. 15, we incorrectly published the incorrect correction. We accept and regret that our original regrets were unacceptable and we apologize to Mr. Steyn for any distress caused by our previous apology.
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4 Dec 2005, 01:10
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#11
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Prince of Amber
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 1,313
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Re: the french
Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
Texan is back! <3
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Not for long. The packers come on Wednesday. It will probably be a month or two before I find a place to live and get an Internet connection.
But back to the topic. I have not studied much French history. Did they win any battles after Napoleon?
__________________
"We sleep safe at night in our beds because rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those who wish to do us harm." -- George Orwell.
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4 Dec 2005, 03:00
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#12
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Vermin Supreme
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 3,280
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Re: the french
Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
Hitler, on the other hand was successful in Russia because of his general's fast moving war operations, and ultimately unsuccessful for a variety of reasons that include the U.S. entering the war and a disagreement between Hitler and some of his most brilliant generals about giving up ground.
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they took poland in what, three weeks in 1939? The Allies hit western Europe summer of '44 (I guess they had already been working Italy), and Hitler still hadn't taken Moscow. How is that successful?
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4 Dec 2005, 03:50
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#13
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Klaatu barada nikto
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,237
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Re: the french
Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
That's very ignorant. Napolean won every conflict through Russia until he reached Moscow
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Somewhat pyrrhic victories, though. Boney lost over two thirds of his army before he ever reached Moscow. He was winning and advancing, but he was losing men he couldn't replace. The Russian army, on the other hand, while losing battles and retreating was growing the whole time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
But back to the topic. I have not studied much French history. Did they win any battles after Napoleon?
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A few. They briefly occupied Saarbrücken in the opening days of the Franco-Prussian war.
They had a few victories in WWI, some with the help of allies, but a few more-or-less on their own ( e.g., Verdun).
__________________
The Ottawa Citizen and Southam News wish to apologize for our apology to Mark Steyn, published Oct. 22. In correcting the incorrect statements about Mr. Steyn published Oct. 15, we incorrectly published the incorrect correction. We accept and regret that our original regrets were unacceptable and we apologize to Mr. Steyn for any distress caused by our previous apology.
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4 Dec 2005, 11:37
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#14
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Caveat Lector
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 3,038
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Re: the french
Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
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Oooh I liked that thread, I have that happenen all the time. :0
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4 Dec 2005, 11:39
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#15
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Caveat Lector
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 3,038
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Re: the french
Quote:
Originally Posted by acropolis
they took poland in what, three weeks in 1939? The Allies hit western Europe summer of '44 (I guess they had already been working Italy), and Hitler still hadn't taken Moscow. How is that successful?
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I did say he was 'ultimately unsuccessful.'
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4 Dec 2005, 15:17
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: somewhere
Posts: 130
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Re: the french
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Napoleon was an aggressive imperialist expansionist power-crazed maniac with an inferiority complex due to his diminuitive height. But then again so was alexander the great and he was well cool. Once these things happen a fair while ago and played an important role in your country's history I don't see too much wrong with random celebrations as long as you remember that he actually loads of pretty shitty things that repeating would not be a good idea.
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I don't think he had an inferiority complex because of his height
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleo...eon.27s_height
I agree with the rest though :P
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[18:45] <Helix> if two wrongs dont make a right its twice as wrong to do something wrong to right it
[00:22] <Doom> Where as in most cases it appears multing is an individual thing, LDK organises it and uses it. Making it an effective unit with a small number of players. It makes sense just not part of the rules. They just organised cheating =-)
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4 Dec 2005, 15:24
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#17
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Drink is Good
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,122
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the froggies
are shit
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Can we please have a moment of silence...........
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4 Dec 2005, 20:35
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#18
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Caveat Lector
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 3,038
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Re: the french
Quote:
Originally Posted by derry
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You've been awarded two disciplinary points in accordance with GD civil statutory code A-135B2.34.3 which strictly prohibits the use of a Wikipedia link for anything other than ridicule and/or popular trivia.
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