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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 13:55   #1
BarbieKen
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Question What's a life worth?
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 13:57   #2
Anu
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 14:01   #3
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Nothing.
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 14:05   #4
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Value is relative.

A life isn't worth a penny, and it's worth dying for.
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 14:14   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Structural Integrity
Value is relative.

A life isn't worth a penny, and it's worth dying for.

hey! thats actually a really good comment!
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 14:14   #6
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An unexamined life that is.
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 14:37   #7
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In accordance to the Human Rights, we are all equal.

I disagree. Someone in breach of a trend/norm towards society should be dealt with accordingly, and are worth less than respective and loyal citizens, working for a 'common goal'.
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 14:48   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by BarbieKen
In accordance to the Human Rights, we are all equal.

I disagree. Someone in breach of a trend/norm towards society should be dealt with accordingly, and are worth less than respective and loyal citizens, working for a 'common goal'.
For breaching the norm of egalitarianism and disrespecting the common goal of human rights, I sentence you to death by hedgehog insertion.

PS. troll :(
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 14:50   #9
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Who do you want killed ?

I do a sliding scale of costs. EVIL dictators cost more

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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 14:50   #10
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my friend who lives in india told me that a life is worth approximately £500

he explained, that if you wanted someone killed you could offer a willing begger the equivalent of £150. The value of money in india is so much more there and the begger has to choose between begging all his life, or killing the victim and escaping before being caught (the police system is so **** out there), with police force so awful and the fact that finding 1 person in a billion is near to impossbily hard, especially if the begger is a nobody, it might be worth the risk. The begger has more than enough money to last him for years (at his current spending levels), without begging that it would be worth the risk.

He said that the price a begger would be willing to take could be a lot less than £500, but says that is a good approximation.

Thus the life of a person is worth in india is worth £500

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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 14:59   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Toccata & Fugue
Why are you so conformist, you should celebrate diversity it what makes us stronger. There is a word for wanting everyone to be the same, its' fascist.

Besides, who's to judge. Was Nelson Mandela worth less because he "deviated" from society, what about Martin Luther King or Malcom X, what about Elvis or the the Sex Pistols. Women's right protestors, gay rights protestors, any protestors. In Nigeria women are stoned to death for having children out of wedlock, is this OK by you. In America there are people IN JAIL for possession of cannibis!!! si this OK by you.

Who measure trends and norms. Whether I like it or not I am different from others, but maybe they are living up to a socially constructed ideal and we are all the same.

Who should we be loyal to, are you loyal to the nation, the government, the people, yourself, your family, what about when these loyalties contradict each other.

What is the common goal, is it life, liberty or happiness, or simple profit, economic growth, the destruction of the state of Israel, the greater glory of the Chinese republic.

edit: you are of course blatantly trolling, but I am bored so I can take some time out of my day to kick your ass all over the thread.
Q. Who measure the trends?
A. The majority, or the strongest link.

Q. Who are we to give loyalty?
A. That's up to the individual, but usually we decide this with a chain of power
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 15:00   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Toccata & Fugue
What is the common goal, is it life, liberty or happiness, or simple profit, economic growth, the destruction of the state of Israel, the greater glory of the Chinese republic.
indeed

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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 15:07   #13
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According to the Economist, a life in the UK is worth approximately a million pounds on the basis of attitudes to safety investment.
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 15:10   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by queball
Nothing.
With this I agree: Everyone dies.

If you murder someone you merely rob them of any future accomplishment they may have achieved.
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 15:15   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
With this I agree: Everyone dies.

If you murder someone you merely rob them of any future accomplishment they may have achieved.
You remove their capacity to choose.

FASCIST.
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 15:17   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
If you murder someone you merely rob them of any future accomplishment they may have achieved.
Well, that's not exactly nothing is it? Besides, if you include happiness in "accomplishments" then that's quite a lot. Especially if you factor in potential children, etc.
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 15:18   #17
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ITT GD disproves that any human being has a right to his or her own life.
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 15:19   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by JonnyBGood
ITT GD disproves that any human being has a right to his or her own life.
Shai and the like proved that a LONG time ago.
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 15:24   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dante Hicks
Well, that's not exactly nothing is it? Besides, if you include happiness in "accomplishments" then that's quite a lot. Especially if you factor in potential children, etc.
That proves my point; if you include personal happiness in list of accomplishments, then murdering someone would deprive them of that.

If a person had no chance of future accomplishment eg happiness, then there really is no value to their life. An example would be if someone went into a coma and they had no chance of regaining conciousness.

It's a euthinasia question,
Innit?
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 15:29   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
That proves my point; if you include personal happiness in list of accomplishments, then murdering someone would deprive them of that.

If a person had no chance of future accomplishment eg happiness, then there really is no value to their life. An example would be if someone went into a coma and they had no chance of regaining conciousness.

It's a euthinasia question,
Innit?


Who are you to judge how someone else values their life? Who are you to deny them the right to their life? There have been many cases when people have woken up from supposedly terminal cases. Would you feel justified if a cure for the terminal disease you killed/euthanised your father for was discovered a year after he died?
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 15:32   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by JonnyBGood
Who are you to judge how someone else values their life? Who are you to deny them the right to their life?
Various people can deny the right to life, doctors in particular with consent from a relative concerning a person in a coma as I understand it.

Quote:
There have been many cases when people have woken up from supposedly terminal cases. Would you feel justified if a cure for the terminal disease you killed/euthanised your father for was discovered a year after he died?
Yes. No regrets.
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 15:36   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by JonnyBGood
Who are you to judge how someone else values their life? Who are you to deny them the right to their life? There have been many cases when people have woken up from supposedly terminal cases. Would you feel justified if a cure for the terminal disease you killed/euthanised your father for was discovered a year after he died?
Quote:
Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
If a person had no chance of future accomplishment eg happiness, then there really is no value to their life. An example would be if someone went into a coma and they had no chance of regaining conciousness.

It's a euthinasia question,
Innit?
I'm sorry if you find this confusing.
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 15:38   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by queball
Various people can deny the right to life, doctors in particular with consent from a relative concerning a person in a coma as I understand it.
Aye, but I don't really give a flying **** what people can and can't do right now. Children don't work sweeping out chimneys for a pittance anymore (in the western world at least). Just because something is a particular way right now doesn't mean it should remain like that in perpetuity.


Quote:
Yes. No regrets.
If your father agreed on that sort of action prior to the disease taking affect I wouldn't have a problem with that. Arbitrarily taking a life when all hope is not gone I do have a problem with.
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 15:40   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
I'm sorry if you find this confusing.
I think the point is that it's difficult to determine when this point has been reached (short of them being dead, in which case it's irrelevent).
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 15:40   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
I'm sorry if you find this confusing.

No chance of regaining consciousness is a stupid term. Advances in medical science means that once terminal diseases are curable. Similarly a man thought to have no chance of regaining consciousness may in fact have a chance given time. Of course being completely and utterly braindead is a completely different scenario.
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 15:44   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dante Hicks
I think the point is that it's difficult to determine when this point has been reached (short of them being dead, in which case it's irrelevent).
I'm sorry, you over estimate medical science: there really are some no hopers.

What about someone who is brain-dead being kept alive by respirators and such?

Edit: Just noticed JBG's reply. Why is it different?
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 15:46   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
I'm sorry, you over estimate medical science: there really are some no hopers.

What about someone who is brain-dead being kept alive by respirators and such?

Clearly there's some minor debate over this area in the medical profession
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 15:48   #28
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Quote:
If your father agreed on that sort of action prior to the disease taking affect I wouldn't have a problem with that. Arbitrarily taking a life when all hope is not gone I do have a problem with.
Maybe one day we'll reanimate the dead or we'll all live again in heaven. If you believe in rights so much then go give all your money to a cryogenics firm. The very real progress of science is no excuse for being indecisive under the flag of uncertainty.
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 15:48   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
I'm sorry, you over estimate medical science: there really are some no hopers.
There really aren't that many people in this situation though. Certainly not enough to apply some general rule. So basically your original statement is kind of banal.
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 15:48   #30
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My life is worth

Money:

£20,000 uni cash from my grandpa
£750 odds in my bank

Assets :

Computer + Electrical goodies - £750 odds
Books, Clothes, and other things that anyone might possibly want - £300 odds
Furniture - £700 odds

Commitments :

School / Uni : None
Loans / Deals / Shares / Investments : None
Work : Part time work. Possible Grievance pay

Futures :

No dependants
No Forseen special abilities or talents

So you could say my life is worth £22,500 + Grievance Pay + The importance of my lifes lost work in monetary terms + A percentage (the leisure percentage) of my lost pay for work.
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 15:51   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by queball
Maybe one day we'll reanimate the dead or we'll all live again in heaven. If you believe in rights so much then go give all your money to a cryogenics firm. The very real progress of science is no excuse for being indecisive under the flag of uncertainty.

There's a difference between a couple of centuries and 18 months and you're well aware of it.
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 15:51   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by JonnyBGood
Clearly there's some minor debate over this area in the medical profession
What makes that site stupid is the biologicly dead/socially alive category: Ghosts - wtf?
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 15:53   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Deffeh
My life is worth

So you could say my life is worth £22,500 + Grievance Pay + The importance of my lifes lost work in monetary terms + A percentage (the leisure percentage) of my lost pay for work.
You left out happiness.
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 15:53   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
What makes that site stupid is the biologicly dead/socially alive category: Ghosts - wtf?
And it quotes Engels.
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 15:54   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
What makes that site stupid is the biologicly dead/socially alive category: Ghosts - wtf?

My point was that we're rather far from a definite line or point. Of course there remains completely hopeless cases, however they are probably far fewer than we think.
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 15:54   #36
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human life.... hmm..... well a fully grown male weighs what.... 75kg at a guess. in an average kebab you get 40g meat, so 25 kebabs per kilo, 1875 kebabs at 2 quid each....

about 3750 quid I reckon.
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 15:55   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by queball
And it quotes Engels.
Shut up you.
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 15:56   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by queball
And it quotes Engels.

Well, we can't all be perfect can we?





Edit: ****, he's probably brain dead
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 16:07   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by JonnyBGood
There's a difference between a couple of centuries and 18 months and you're well aware of it.
Sure, 198 years 6 months. If you arrange and pay for your body to be kept for some arbitrary length of time after you're dead then fine. Spending £1 million (a lifetime's earnings) of NHS money on some old guy who's probably ugly anyway isn't worth it.
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 16:08   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by queball
Sure, 198 years 6 months. If you arrange and pay for your body to be kept for some arbitrary length of time after you're dead then fine. Spending £1 million (a lifetime's earnings) of NHS money on some old guy who's probably ugly anyway isn't worth it.

I don't support public healthcare actually.
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 16:09   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by JonnyBGood
I don't support public healthcare actually.

wow you're cool
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 16:11   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by queball
wow you're cool

Well it sort of pisses all over your total lack of a ****ing point doesn't it?
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 16:14   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Radical Edward
human life.... hmm..... well a fully grown male weighs what.... 75kg at a guess. in an average kebab you get 40g meat, so 25 kebabs per kilo, 1875 kebabs at 2 quid each....

about 3750 quid I reckon.
What kind of **** kebabs you got there?!
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 16:15   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by JonnyBGood
Well it sort of pisses all over your total lack of a ****ing point doesn't it?
No, it pisses on your point, since in a libertarian health system there wouldn't be a debate over rights anyway and you wouldn't have anything to whine and moralise about. Owned.
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 16:17   #45
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The way I see it:

1 unit of life = 1 unit of life = 1 unit of love

Quote:
Originally posted by JonnyBGood
Of course being completely and utterly braindead is a completely different scenario.
It's never stopped people posting on this forum

=[DJ Bass]=
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 16:18   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by queball
No, it pisses on your point, since in a libertarian health system there wouldn't be a debate over rights anyway and you wouldn't have anything to whine and moralise about. Owned.

Worst point ever. Having a libertarian health system does not mean that people would stop slipping into comas. Children don't get given equal rights the moment they're born either. (Unless you're living under a particular stupid libertarian system).
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 16:19   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by queball
No, it pisses on your point, since in a libertarian health system there wouldn't be a debate over rights anyway and you wouldn't have anything to whine and moralise about. Owned.
Presumably, for very poor people (or orphans or something) there would be a healthcare system funded by some kind of voluntary charitable donation. Charities would face debates like this - more so, since unlike the state they generally can't mindlessly deficit spend.
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 16:20   #48
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What kind of **** kebabs you got there?!
human kebabs fs. it's prime meat, you have to spread it a bit thin.
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 16:21   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dante Hicks
Presumably, for very poor people (or orphans or something) there would be a healthcare system funded by some kind of voluntary charitable donation. Charities would face debates like this - more so, since unlike the state they generally can't mindlessly deficit spend.

Under a libertarian system there wouldn't be any poor people. Or comas. Or illnesses. Or communists. Or disagreement. Or.........
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Unread 18 Aug 2003, 16:21   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by JonnyBGood
Worst point ever. Having a libertarian health system does not mean that people would stop slipping into comas. Children don't get given equal rights the moment they're born either. (Unless you're living under a particular stupid libertarian system).
Someone slips into a coma. The doctors check the terms of his insurance and act accordingly. This puts the decision ultimately on the dead guy so even if I do decide to kill my dad it's his choice and not me deciding for other people.
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