Lo PA HQ and lo the rest of the comunity.
Please take notice that I am writing this message in anger and there might be some outbursts which you will just have to live with.
I'm writing this message, partly on behalf of my galaxy and partly on behalf of myself. First of all my galaxy demands our resources back which PA HQ STOLE from us and second of all I demand at least Karmulian to either step down or simply be fired by jolt.
This is hard accusitions but I have my reasons and I will present them to the comunity as I think they deserve to hear the truth and since this is the only way PA HQ can learn that they can't just treat the players as they want.
Well first about the resources that PA HQ stole from me and my gal:
In my galaxy we agreed to begin to donate to the fund to keep ourself small and to give the other gals the impression that we were small while we were actualy big. What we did when we hit the 25 million mark was simply to donate out the 25 millions to someone in the gal and then other ppl donated res into the fund so that there was for eksampel 24999999 res there and the one who had recieved the 25 millions donated them back in and then there was 49999999 res there and such we went on...
Ofcourse I had checked the manual about this to see if I was breaking the rules by doing thisand to my suprise there was no limit stated in the manual and therefore there was nothing to stop me from doing it and we started to do it.
today just b4 the res got stolen there was this in the fund:
[21:30] <cbk-away> how much res was in that fund?
[21:30] <cbk-away> EXACLY
[21:30] <Penga> mom
[21:31] <Penga> The Galactic Fund
[21:31] <Penga> In the galactic fund, you will have to pay 5% in exchange fees.
[21:31] <Penga> METAL 190747747 Wanted
[21:31] <Penga> CRYSTAL 192747601 Wanted
[21:31] <Penga> EONIUM 180796885 Wanted
[21:31] <Penga> PT : 869
so exacly 190747747 Metal, 192747601 Crystal and 180796885 Eonium.
Then today PA HQ stole res and we ofc. afterwards went to them to give us the resources back...
To continue this and to continue to the other thing (that I want Karmulian to either step down or get fired:
When we had contact with Phil^ about it this was what happened:
[21:50] <Abe> [17:48:41] <Phil^> heh. weve been getting reports of a bug which allowed galaxies to get over the 25 mill limit, all gals who were over it just got reset to 25 mill-ish total, and the bug was fixed
[21:50] <Abe> [17:48:47] <Phil^> if your gal fund was over 25 mill thats why
[21:50] <Abe> [17:56:12] <Abe> ok, is this limit of 25 mil writen somewere ?
[21:50] <Abe> [17:56:20] <Phil^> in the manual
[21:50] <Abe> [17:56:21] <Abe> i've done a search on manual
[21:50] <Abe> [17:56:24] <Abe> couldnt find it
[21:50] <Abe> [18:04:22] <Abe> you found it ?
[21:52] <Abe> [18:04:36] <Phil^> im busy atm discussing your case with the other pateam
[21:52] <Abe> [18:08:04] <Abe> about fund and donations ... i was thinking its on MINING page, at manual
[21:52] <Abe> [18:15:21] <Abe> we all agreed we cant find it on manual, i have all pages saved
[21:52] <Abe> [18:15:43] <Phil^> should be somewhere
[21:52] <Abe> [18:16:13] <Abe> it aint
[21:52] <Abe> [18:16:17] <Abe> i just read them all again
[21:52] <Abe> [18:16:18] <Abe> hehe
[21:52] <Abe> [18:16:30] <Abe> it should indeed
[21:52] <Abe> [18:16:53] <Phil^> if it aint in there, shall have to add it, regardless when you try to donate into the gal fund and its over 25 mill, it stops you
[21:52] <Abe> [18:17:12] <Phil^> you gt roudn it by making sute it wasnt 25 mill, then donating loads to get it well over that
[21:52] <Abe> [18:17:29] <Phil^> when you needed to add to it, it was all donated out to someone, someone else donated in, then all the res was donated back
[21:52] <Abe> [18:18:40] <Abe> but was in the game rules
[21:52] <Abe> [18:18:50] <Phil^> no, it was exploiting a bug
[21:52] <Abe> [18:19:21] <Abe> Phil, if there is no rule having more than 25 mil resources in fund , then there is no bug donating more into it
[21:52] <Abe> [18:19:35] <Phil^> pls, use common sense
For that there is nothing else to say than: There was a set of rules (EULA and manual) that we all signed to live by and obey... If we don't obey them then we can be punished... EVERYTHING we do beside that we can't be punished for... you can't be punished for not using common sence, going around what is "called a bug" or whatever... I won speedgame final by donations and that was fully legal and this is no different. There was NOTHING in the manual or EULA to state that what we did was wrong. Also keep in mind that we PAID for this game and therefore we have rights and PA HQ can't just do as they want with us unless they have valid proof for it.
(let me just ask what happends in the real world if someone does something that could be looked at as morally incorrect? or what some would call "obusing" the rules? the answer is simple: NOTHING cause you can only be punished for not following the rules and its as simple as that)
So there is NO WHAT SO EVER fundament for taking the res away from us. We MAYBE found a bug in the game but if it is so then correct that bug and update the manual (which you have allready done but we will get back to that l8er) but you will ofc still have to give us the resources back into the fund (and yes it has to be in the fund and for however use we see fit cause when you make a rule it can't take effect b4 it got changed).
As Angellady from my gal puts it and which she has taken DIRECTLY from the manual B4 anything was changed in it:
[21:40] <AngelLady> "You can donate resources to the galaxy fund at any time by entering the amount of resources you want to donate followed by hitting the Donate button." <-- it is cleary stated that u can donate whatever u want
And what she states there is EXACLY what we did... nothing more... nothing less.
When I went to confront Karmulian about it then this happened (bear in mind that I was pissed(which I think I was/am for obvious reasons))(I have tried to take out what is absolutely not needed in the log as its rather long):
**************
Session Start: Sun Apr 25 20:51:46 2004
Session Ident: #support
[20:51] *** Now talking in #support
[20:51] <cbk-NO_PM> I need an op
[20:52] <xontas> whats the problem
[20:54] <Karmulian> cbk
[20:54] <Karmulian> Your galaxy (by its own admission on your galaxy forums, and by telling other people who then reported you to us)
[20:54] <Karmulian> was abusing a bug
[20:55] <Karmulian> the bug has now been fixed and as such your gal fund was truncated because of it
[20:55] <Karmulian> abusing a bug is a closable offence
[20:55] <cbk-NO_PM> there were no rule and therefore no bug
[20:55] <Karmulian> in this regard however and due to the fact that 2 of your gal are already clsoed we just truncated your fund
[20:55] <Karmulian> it says on you own gal forums, that there is a limit and you found a way round it
[20:55] <cbk-NO_PM> ROFL on forums?
[20:56] <Karmulian> and a number of private messages sent by your galaxy mates
[20:56] <cbk-NO_PM> I don't think I have signed that I will follow anything told on the forum
[20:56] <Karmulian> no..
[20:56] <cbk-NO_PM> I have comitted and signed that I will play by the manual
[20:56] <cbk-NO_PM> and the manual says nothing about it
[20:56] <Karmulian> there is a limit described in the manual
[20:56] <Karmulian> your galaxy in writing
[20:56] <cbk-NO_PM> ROFL Karmulian
[20:56] <Karmulian> on its own forums
[20:56] <Karmulian> admitted there is a limit
[20:56] <cbk-NO_PM> where in the manual?
[20:56] <cbk-NO_PM> where?
[20:56] <Karmulian> and admitted they found a way round it
[20:57] <cbk-NO_PM> where do you see that in the manual?
[20:57] <xontas> we are NOT talking about the manual
[20:57] <xontas> we are talking about your own forum
[20:57] <Karmulian> Trading on the open market does not have any restrictions - you can always trade
[20:57] <Karmulian> the resources you want to, although you will have to pay a 25% tax here.
[20:57] <Karmulian> There is a limit to how many resources can be in the galaxy fund at any one time.
[20:57] <Karmulian> You may have up to 25 million resources in total.
[20:57] <cbk-NO_PM> when did you put that into the manual?
[20:57] <Karmulian> after your bug it has also been added to the mining page
[20:58] <cbk-NO_PM> when did you put that into the manual?
[20:58] <Karmulian> it has been there some time
[20:58] <cbk-NO_PM> ROFL
[20:58] <cbk-NO_PM> and now you lie to me?
[20:58] * Karmulian sighs
[20:58] <cbk-NO_PM> I have proof of what I say
[20:58] <cbk-NO_PM> PA HQ lieing now
[20:58] <Karmulian> our avoiding the slight fact your own galaxy mates have admitted abusing a bug
[20:58] <cbk-NO_PM> simply just **** YOU
[20:58] *** You were kicked by Pie ([Warning] :: No offensive language ::)
Session Close: Sun Apr 25 20:58:36 2004
Session Start: Sun Apr 25 20:58:44 2004
Session Ident: #support
[20:58] *** Now talking in #support
[20:59] <Karmulian> your avoiding the slight fact your own galaxy mates have admitted abusing a bug
[20:59] <cbk-NO_PM> when there is no rule there is no bug
[20:59] <cbk-NO_PM> at least not anything that we can be punished for
[20:59] <Karmulian> funny that your own galaxy mates say " we have found a way round the gal fund limit"
[20:59] <cbk-NO_PM> and that you simply lie to me is just too low!!!!
[20:59] <Karmulian> thus admitting there were aware of a limit (which was in the manual)
[20:59] <xontas> ok could you also listen to other people when you discuse something, if not we are don cbk-NO_PM
[21:00] <cbk-NO_PM> xontas should I listen to ppl when they simply lie to me?
[21:00] <cbk-NO_PM> PA HQ lieing
[21:00] <Karmulian> nope
[21:00] <xontas> he didnt lie
[21:00] <cbk-NO_PM> he said it was there for some time
[21:00] <Karmulian> however i could alternativly close your planets?
[21:00] <cbk-NO_PM> it was put inthere AFTER our res was taken
[21:00] <Karmulian> as bug abuse it a closable offense
[21:00] <cbk-NO_PM> that was today
[21:00] <cbk-NO_PM> so if some time = a few hours then he is right
[21:00] <Karmulian> nope cbk, its been there a while
[21:00] <cbk-NO_PM> if some time is more than that then he lies
[21:00] <Karmulian> as it was someone else who reported it to us
[21:00] <cbk-NO_PM> in my definition he lies
[21:01] <xontas> the res wher take away because people admited to bugabuse on YOUR forum
[21:01] <cbk-NO_PM> in common sence he lies
[21:01] *** Karmulian sets mode: +m
[21:01] <cbk-NO_PM> Karmulian bring forth your proof
[21:01] #support Cannot send to channel
[21:01] <Karmulian> cbk shush a moment
[21:01] <xontas> ta karmy
[21:01] <Karmulian> it has been in the manual
[21:01] <Karmulian> it has also been admitted on your own forums that you were abusing a bug
[21:01] <Karmulian> the bug has been resolved and gal funds of offending galaxies truncated (not just you)
[21:01] *** Icy|Away is now known as Ice-Lady
[21:01] <Karmulian> that is the end of the story
[21:01] *** Karmulian sets mode: -m
[21:02] <cbk-NO_PM> you lied... PA HQ lieing is just too low
[21:02] <Karmulian> i have lied in no way
[21:02] <cbk-NO_PM> I have my proof and I will let the comunity see it
[21:02] <xontas> np
[21:02] <cbk-NO_PM> well I will let the public judge that
[21:02] *** az|cooking is now known as az|food
[21:02] *** Wakey is now known as Wakey|afk
[21:02] <xontas> i suggest you go do that then
[21:03] <cbk-NO_PM> I will
[21:03] <Ice-Lady> can i ask what benefit it would have the PA team to lie cbk?
[21:03] <Ice-Lady> like, what would it gain us?
[21:03] <cbk-NO_PM> to defend themself
[21:03] <Ice-Lady> over what?
[21:03] <Karmulian> cbk thats ok, you post it
[21:03] <cbk-NO_PM> Ice I don't care what it would benefit... I simply just claim that they did lie
[21:03] <Karmulian> i will post where you and your galaxy admitted abusing a bug
[21:03] <cbk-NO_PM> and the thing is that I can prove it
[21:03] <Karmulian> in irc logs, private messages and gal forums
[21:03] <Ice-Lady> well, there is NO benefit to pa team lying
[21:04] <Karmulian> thus your arguement will be null and void
[21:04] <Karmulian> but nm
[21:04] <cbk-NO_PM> I have nothing more to say... I will put forth my proof on forums... I can't be arsed to close this window so I will just say "**** YOU"
[21:04] *** Pie sets mode: +b *!*@cbk.users.netgamers.org
[21:04] *** You were kicked by Pie ([1] :: No offensive language :: (Auto) Duration: 40m)
Session Close: Sun Apr 25 21:04:23 2004
************
[21:00] <Karmulian> however i could alternativly close your planets?
Is that power obuse? or just threatening the ppl who paid accounts to play his game?
let me first of all comment on this since I didn't see that when I was in the channel... well just go ahead your F**KHEAD cause if you can steal our res you at the same time claim that we broke the rules which gives you the good right to delete all of us (so yes ofc you could just do that), but keep in mind that we paid for this game.
But count on that then it will not be the end of this discussion and I think some ppl a bit higher in the system will simply just f**k you over. (once again sorry about the language).
As everyone can see Karmulian (several times) claims that it was stated in the manual, that there was a limit of 25 millions... go to the manual and take a look at it and POOF!!! there you see it... exacly what you saw him paste in that log.
But why do I then claim that we didn't break the rules? cause its obvious to see that either Karmulian lies DIRECTLY to me and the comunity which is ofc. enough reason for him to get fired or else I'm full of crap.
Karmulian ofc. says what he says to simply just close the case that way and by saying that it has been in the manual for some time he simply just closes the discussion. Or does he?
No ofc. he doesn't as I have some wise ppl in my gal who was fast enough to go to the manual page today just after the res got taken (I was to a confirmation today myself) and there they found this:
®µ§@Ѐ®ß@߀ *PA admins = shitheads* says:
http://gallery.drofdar.me.uk/Crusie/manual_001?full=1 (B4)
©®µ§@Ѐ®ß@߀ *PA admins = shitheads* says:
http://www.planetarion.com/index.php...=13&submenu=35 (After)
and this as backup:
[20:49] <Abe> [19:12:53] <mens>
http://privat.bluezone.no/hendrix/temp/before.jpg
[20:49] <Abe> [19:12:53] <mens>
http://privat.bluezone.no/hendrix/temp/after.jpg
There is obvious to see that what Karmulian claims is simply just a lie and therefore there is no doubt that Karmulian should simply just either step down from PA HQ or jolt or spinner(if its in his power) should simply just fire him.
Beside that its easy to see that is was not in the manual which means that we broke NO rules and therefore can't be punished for anything.
The conclusion to this is that I/WE demand EXACLY the same amount as was taken from us, donated back into the fund and I personaly demand Karmulian either to step down or get fired.
cbk
(partly on behalf of my gal)