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Unread 30 Sep 2010, 16:02   #101
Mzyxptlk
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

You are wrong.
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Unread 30 Sep 2010, 16:35   #102
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

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Originally Posted by Marka View Post
I do believe that you wanted to insult the OP and all others agreeing with his opinion. After all you posted those numbers in a thread where you previously expressed disagreement with this specific suggestion. Admittedly in an indirect fashion, provoking certain responses etc etc.
I can just say it again - if you don't want to insult people then don't, especially not if your a mod that is usually linked to a certain unbiased view and higher behavioral standards than the common forum members.
Now you're calling us all common??

Screw you, marka
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Unread 30 Sep 2010, 16:48   #103
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

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Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
elviz quit tag apparently because of the vacmode thing, but it was probably more to do with the fact that he found out HellKicker might be the father of FF's baby.

Wait. WHAT?
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Unread 30 Sep 2010, 16:52   #104
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

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Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
Now you're calling us all common??

Screw you, marka
Depends if you see yourself in the 10 or 90...
Oh and technically 81 is still within 80-100. Our arby had a tad more
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Unread 30 Sep 2010, 17:41   #105
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

touché.

Like I said, we had a full tag at one point and in order to add somebody else in, we had to kick somebody.

Actually we did this twice, as we kicked ell (who wasn't actually playing) so we could add Reese to the tag too. That pissed him off lol.
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Unread 30 Sep 2010, 22:44   #106
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
When new players join this game they are warned of these forums because of ppl like mz and jbg who troll and flame ppl 's idea into the ground because it doesnt not match there own insular ideas.
Yeah. I can see how me saying I'm fine with a round of 40 member tag limits is actually me flaming something into the ground...



This thread is a great example of at least four cognitive problems coming into play at the same time though
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Unread 1 Oct 2010, 11:24   #107
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
I did not insult you personally, nor Makhil. You did that all by yourselves, without any prompting on my part, by volunteering the opinion that you were part of the moron-clan. I don't think it's my task to reassure everyone who thinks they're a moron by saying they're not.
It's your attitude I don't like, I'm in no way suggesting you could be right in your evaluation. You consider yourself clever... considering you're judging it with whatever intelligence you have, it's no surprise.
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Unread 1 Oct 2010, 11:38   #108
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

I think I'm okay with that, but thank you for your opinion anyway.
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Unread 2 Oct 2010, 16:09   #109
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
I did not say you were in the 99%, but it is somewhat surprising that you consider yourself part of it (few people would).

Less surprisingly, you misunderstand my point. The ability to play a game like PA is very different from the ability to design or even just to balance a game. There are quite a lot of people who fall in the first category (much more than 1% of the PA player base), but if you asked me to make a list of people who I thought fell in the second category, it would not go into the double digits.

Marka misunderstands my point in the exact same way. And also thinks he's part of the 99%. Funny how that goes.

P.S. I would like to remove ships from the game. We should ignore all rational arguments and just try it for a couple of rounds.
Is there no wonder why people are having a go at you with a attitude that stinks like that?
People are merely suggesting things (isn't what this forum is about) yet you have this chip on your shoulder about how 1337 you are and how these suggestions are insignificant to your opinions.
I for one am glad that you're not part of the decision making process about any changes in PA like tag sizes
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Unread 2 Oct 2010, 16:41   #110
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

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Originally Posted by DoDDy View Post
Is there no wonder why people are having a go at you with a attitude that stinks like that?
Don't care.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoDDy View Post
People are merely suggesting things (isn't what this forum is about) yet you have this chip on your shoulder about how 1337 you are and how these suggestions are insignificant to your opinions.
A "a chip on my shoulder"? What? You really have no clue what I try to do on these forums. I suppose you haven't read my other posts in this thread, or you would not be so clueless about it.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 2 Oct 2010, 18:25   #111
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

One thing people often fail to grasp is that it's difficult to design planetarion unless you've played it at the highest possible level, directing fleets, understanding not just how individual combat works but how fleets change over time as roids change hands and rounds progress in the political sense. Not to mention how alliances generally get weaker as rounds progress. There are many factors to consider and in the past the people running the game and setting the rules haven't grasped this, the support planet rule being one.

As very few people have had this kind of experience, many opinions barely scratch the surface of this. Playing the game is very different from having to understand its every aspect to craft a high quality alliance performance which exploits the metagame and the growth formulae as the round ticks by. The use of moron (while a bad choice of word) is pretty subjective, because even some of the players left are pretty ****ing smart in terms of how they understand the game.

My view is that setting an alliance limit at this stage is a pretty minor issue and the only consideration we need to make is how big would an alliance be before it makes up too big a chunk of the universe on its own to be able to dominate by itself with fairly simple politics. These numbers barely matter, it's players we need, then we can seriously debate issues like this.

As the universe gets bigger, then you think about raising the limit to prevent alliances suffering too much from a scenario where the best alliance can't win because it's too small to fend off opposition. Then you get to a stage where alliance size doesn't matter any more, because alliances collapse under their own weight at the 200-250 point, but that's a long way off.
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Unread 2 Oct 2010, 22:56   #112
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Smile Re: Alliance Size for next round

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Don't care.


A "a chip on my shoulder"? What? You really have no clue what I try to do on these forums. I suppose you haven't read my other posts in this thread, or you would not be so clueless about it.
Perhaps you haven't been such an arse in previous posts on this forum, but it's only natural when it comes to first impressions. If you are meant to be the 'man' and Mr. Helpful on these forums you would do this on a consistent basis and not falter as shown.
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Unread 2 Oct 2010, 23:30   #113
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

Being a moderator does not mean that the poster has to remain completly neutral when posting in opinion threads. A moderator can still post his/her opinion on Planetarion strategys, alliances or suggestions even if they arnt the majority opinion.

There are two things a moderator has to do:
1. Remain unbiased when MODERATING (not posting).
2. Dont break any rules yourself.

Mz obviously can post that he thinks an idea is dumb and the people supporting the idea are dumb as long as he isnt trolling when doing so. Mz has clearly stated why he thinks the idea is dumb multiple times in multiple threads, so it wasnt a trollpost, as he even linked to them.

I actually fully agree with Mz here. We've had a variety of alliance limits in the history of planetarion and the trend is that the tag has little to no effect on how many alliances are playing.

Added to the fact, that any drastic change to the tag limit completly ruins the makeup of the current alliances. It isnt so much a problem when alliance limits are raised or when alliance limits are lowered slightly. However, if theres a huge reduction in the alliance limit, it means alliances are forced to kick out there less active members. That doesnt increase the competition, it just means that activity becomes more important in recruiting and semi-active/casuals can no longer play in the 'big' alliances.

If alliance tag limits get reduced to 40, then even if the lower active players decide to band together to form new alliances (theres no evidence to say they will, evidence points to them just playing casually or not playing at all which means PA will get reduced revunue), then what happends at the middle-end of the round where we always see a huge reduction in activity from the planetarion userbase? With a drastically low tag limit, you're going to have alot of inactive/disbanding alliances at the end of the round.
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Unread 3 Oct 2010, 00:26   #114
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

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Originally Posted by DoDDy View Post
Perhaps you haven't been such an arse in previous posts on this forum, but it's only natural when it comes to first impressions. If you are meant to be the 'man' and Mr. Helpful on these forums you would do this on a consistent basis and not falter as shown.
I am neither "the man" nor "Mr. Helpful", nor did I falter at any point in this thread. I can't help but notice, though, you seem to be fulfilling the role of Mr. Judgemental astonishingly well for someone with a grand total of 3 posts. Keep up the good work, man.

Now, while I am obviously a much more interesting topic of conversation than something as silly (and hopelessly unoriginal) as tag limits, maybe it's time we got this at least slightly back on topic.
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Unread 3 Oct 2010, 00:26   #115
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

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Originally Posted by Light View Post
Added to the fact, that any drastic change to the tag limit completly ruins the makeup of the current alliances. It isnt so much a problem when alliance limits are raised or when alliance limits are lowered slightly. However, if theres a huge reduction in the alliance limit, it means alliances are forced to kick out there less active members. That doesnt increase the competition, it just means that activity becomes more important in recruiting and semi-active/casuals can no longer play in the 'big' alliances.
Last round we had 5 serious alliances that considerably exceeded 40 players, of those only 4 still play. Thus it only would effect a minority of alliances.
Also shouldn't activity be the deciding factor on how alliances perform, and not how many semi-actives you can drag along?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
If alliance tag limits get reduced to 40, then even if the lower active players decide to band together to form new alliances (theres no evidence to say they will, evidence points to them just playing casually or not playing at all which means PA will get reduced revunue), then what happends at the middle-end of the round where we always see a huge reduction in activity from the planetarion userbase? With a drastically low tag limit, you're going to have alot of inactive/disbanding alliances at the end of the round.
PA should not put even more concern towards lower active players. They are pampered enough as is.
It might be that the kicked players (the number will not be very high) don't form new alliances. But it is more likely that they will join another tag instead of playing completely random.
As for the activity drop...from my experience this hits larger tags worse than smaller tag, since it is not the core players that tend to get inactive but those you fill your tag up with.
Smaller tags decrease the obstacles required for creating a competitive alliance, thus might be incentive for new players to form their own or BGs to leave bigger tags and play under their own name.
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Unread 3 Oct 2010, 01:16   #116
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Because 99% of the player base have no clue what they're talking about. **** being generous. I would sooner entrust PA game development to 2 rabid monkeys than to the collective PA player base.

P.S. cry me a river
Methinks you sound more and more like I did back in the good old days Ah the frustration of actually having to read peoples ill-informed opinions.

These days, when the stupidity gets too thick, I've got the blessed option of just walking away.

This subject is one of the worst offenders, wherein only one side ever makes any arguments (hint: it's not your side Marka/Makhil/Kaiba), and the other comes back with the same tired bullshit time and time again (this is your side!). Just let the committee democratically decide to steer the ship into the iceberg and be done with it. Then when they exclaim the problem was that they didn't ram it hard enough, stand back and watch them keep on throwing themselves head first into a brick wall, each time expecting a different result. I suggest getting out some snacks, beers and sitting back and laughing at the morons as they have at it.

ps. Mz was being way too kind. I've only known about 20 people over these 10 years who've had anything worthwhile to say on matters pertaining to the design of this game. The other 99,9% are utterly incapable of understanding the most basic logic, thus rendering them unable to see the error of their ways and ever improve.

pps. <Insert some more thinly veiled insults.>

ppp. Isilx is also pretty ****ing stupid.
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Unread 3 Oct 2010, 01:42   #117
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marka View Post
Last round we had 5 serious alliances that considerably exceeded 40 players, of those only 4 still play. Thus it only would effect a minority of alliances.
Also shouldn't activity be the deciding factor on how alliances perform, and not how many semi-actives you can drag along?
but those 5 serious alliances contain most of the active players. So while it only effects the minority of alliances, it effects the bulk of the active players.

Quote:
PA should not put even more concern towards lower active players. They are pampered enough as is.
It might be that the kicked players (the number will not be very high) don't form new alliances. But it is more likely that they will join another tag instead of playing completely random.
As for the activity drop...from my experience this hits larger tags worse than smaller tag, since it is not the core players that tend to get inactive but those you fill your tag up with.
Smaller tags decrease the obstacles required for creating a competitive alliance, thus might be incentive for new players to form their own or BGs to leave bigger tags and play under their own name.
Its not putting more concern, its maintaining the current status-que. At the moment, top alliances tend to allow semi-actives/casuals to remain in there alliance which means that you dont need to be 100% active to be in one of the top alliances. Lower tag limits, means that the top alliances will be requiring full activity and the competition to get in a top alliance is alot harder. Forcing lower active players into worse alliances which isnt really good for the game.

We should be trying to encourage alliances to recruit some casuals/semi-actives and not discard them.

The semi-active and casual players currently in the top alliances which will get kicked if the alliance limit is reduced to 40 wont be able to join another tag? as who will be active enough and good enough to HC/BC/DC it? Anyone good enough to do that, will be kept in the top alliances and wont be creating a new tag with casuals.

At the moment, the activity drop effects all alliances, its just more visable in the top alliances as they generally all start out pretty active and then drop when they realise they cant win or when they're getting owned. Smaller alliances tend to have lower activity anyway from the start, so the drop is less noticable.

Smaller alliances dont really allow for more competition, it ruins the alliance competition as it makes blocking much more important and the only way to win. With smaller alliances, it becomes more easier to overwelm an alliance with numbers and in a block war.. it allows for blocks to easily organise incomings on every single planet in an alliance, pwning them in one night.

I dont really want a game based purely around blocking, where blocking automatically beats quality. Blocking is important in PA at the moment but quality can still beat them, we've had countless times where top alliances have survived the heavy beating a bigger block has given them. While if its smaller, it becomes almost impossible to survive the offensive power of a block.

I really dislike this thread, as the main reason people seem to be calling for this lower tag limit, is just for 'a change' and it all hinges on people stepping up and creating more alliances, when its been shown that its highly unlikely for that to happen. It could result in one of the worse rounds PA has ever had, It could result in it being a 'fun' round, the point is.. is the tag limit that wrong at the moment that its worth risking? and if it is, should it really be instantly reduced? but slowly reduced over multiple rouns instead.
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Unread 3 Oct 2010, 01:57   #118
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marka View Post
Last round we had 5 serious alliances that considerably exceeded 40 players, of those only 4 still play. Thus it only would effect a minority of alliances.
Also shouldn't activity be the deciding factor on how alliances perform, and not how many semi-actives you can drag along?
in that case we might as well reduce your definition of activity to its core, count the number of pageclicks per account and that person wins!
In other words, your assumption as stated above is flawed. If you want to reward anything it should be efficient fleet use and score maximization.


Quote:
PA should not put even more concern towards lower active players. They are pampered enough as is.
What? Shouldn't PA put more concern towards those players? As spinner also posted somewhere, this game design is inherently flawed as it needs a constant influx of roids and new players. You are suggesting the opposite it seems, I might be wrong, but please enlighten me then.
Quote:
It might be that the kicked players (the number will not be very high) don't form new alliances. But it is more likely that they will join another tag instead of playing completely random.
As for the activity drop...from my experience this hits larger tags worse than smaller tag, since it is not the core players that tend to get inactive but those you fill your tag up with.
Smaller tags decrease the obstacles required for creating a competitive alliance, thus might be incentive for new players to form their own or BGs to leave bigger tags and play under their own name.
New players do not spontaneously organize. Really, this is a game, not a job or a calling. If you are new and you have to do all that stuff you are suggesting, you just find another game.

In general you seem to make a mistake a lot of 'smaller tag limit' posters seem to make and that is that if you 'force' people to create 'smaller' tags, they will. I think if you push people towards things they do not want in a game, they stop playing and leave. This point is backed up by the following studies:

Art of Game Design
Theory of Learning
Predicting how people play games

Less scientific, more accessible the points I am referring to are also listed here.
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Unread 3 Oct 2010, 02:00   #119
Knight Theamion
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

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Originally Posted by Light View Post
I really dislike this thread, as the main reason people seem to be calling for this lower tag limit, is just for 'a change' and it all hinges on people stepping up and creating more alliances, when its been shown that its highly unlikely for that to happen. It could result in one of the worse rounds PA has ever had, It could result in it being a 'fun' round, the point is.. is the tag limit that wrong at the moment that its worth risking? and if it is, should it really be instantly reduced? but slowly reduced over multiple rounds instead.


What she said, basically. With added: Why not abolish taglimits all together?
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Unread 3 Oct 2010, 06:42   #120
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

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Originally Posted by lokken View Post
My view is that setting an alliance limit at this stage is a pretty minor issue and the only consideration we need to make is how big would an alliance be before it makes up too big a chunk of the universe on its own to be able to dominate by itself with fairly simple politics. These numbers barely matter, it's players we need, then we can seriously debate issues like this.
Agreed, playerbase is so small that having an alliance limit isn't really a big issue.
If we get our numbers up then it might be worth getting rid off.
but for now i really don't see the point in debating this.
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Unread 3 Oct 2010, 07:22   #121
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

How about realizing that this and a myriad of other threads have been about the same thing: shaking up PA out of a stagnant predictable future?

In that direction, part of what would make lowering alliance limits for ONE round ineffective is that those we'll know (1) next round it'll be just like every other before the change, (2) large allys will be able to create multiple tags, main and supporting ones, and (3) no incentives for more than one ally to succeed.

So, let see how many people flame me for this suggestion... and I'm borrowing some from what I've read in most of these threads without quotations (sry).

Change tag rules for 3 or more rounds in one or more of the following ways:

- Alliance limit 30-40 with 80-90% counting towards score.

- Planets can only defend IN tag and IN gal.

- Only those IN tag can see NAPs on Ally pages (the uni NAP view disappears).



Even better, come up with things that will completely change the play of the game (again, some/all seen before):

- Gal wars: remove ally's, larger (15-30 planet) galaxies with larger bp (5-15 players), and defense only possible IN gal.

- Light's plan fully formed....

- Let lokken or CBA or JBG or mz or hell, Kenny make the rules...
<insert snarky comments here>



And finally, give out more rewards for competitive play...

Note: Posting any idea to the PA forums is like sitting on a 3 foot in diameter island covered with 1000 rabid ferrets. If you don't expect and relish gratuitous gnawing on your flesh followed by a painful neurological meltdown , stop posting!
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Unread 3 Oct 2010, 07:42   #122
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

I haven't seen a valid/unbiaised argument against a (first time ever) test of 40 limit tag.
In a 300 active player universe, having 1 alliance concentrating a big proportion of them is not good for the game itself.
I understand it is very good for those people and I see why they're fighting against the idea (especially those who only have PA to feel they have achieved something in their lives).

TBH when a game reaches such a low number of players, I think there should be no ally at all.
Let see what thew new owner comes up with. If he follows the advices of "the gang" I fear the worst for his investment.
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Unread 3 Oct 2010, 09:41   #123
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

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Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
I haven't seen a valid/unbiaised argument against a (first time ever) test of 40 limit tag.
Seriously? Because this might explain a whole lot about your posting.
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Unread 3 Oct 2010, 09:57   #124
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

Wow, I must have done something really right to get on Sun_Tzu's bad side
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Unread 3 Oct 2010, 10:07   #125
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

Knight Theamion - tbh Makhil has a point - although we could argue till were blue in the face about whats better the 40 man limit has never actually been tested.

You guys all seem to want no tag limit or a higher teired but your all in these big alliances or the alliances that have a big draw to players via past achievements in pa.

All the small arguers are from smaller allies trying to level the playing field.

I personally think the best solution would be for the PA team to advance announce that 1 round would be 40 man tags and then the following round would be limitless. This way the 40 man tag arguememnts would have substance to base on arguements on and then if as all you anti small tag ppl seem to think with your educated thoiugts no limits is the better with the following round being limitless it would show to be superior and it could move on from there
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Unread 3 Oct 2010, 10:39   #126
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
All the small arguers are from smaller allies trying to level the playing field.
Do you not share my assumption that the 'smaller'* tags will just be leveled harder by the 'active' tags? aka broadening the gap?



*tags that are at the moment small
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Unread 3 Oct 2010, 10:58   #127
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

NO i dont think so to a degree - most of the smaller tags atm (the 40-30 man ones) are made up 20 ish core players and 10-20 recruits every round. The players who cant get in the more established tags will just filter down into these i think. It will give a tier system still with 2-3 tags with the highest activity but the number of allainces pushing for the top 10 rankings will increase drastically. And the attacking ability of the considered lesser alliances will be increased cos of the defpool decrease of the top allies.

At the moment its hard to hit allies such as ND cos of the def pool they can draw def from - if you only had 40 guys then you would have a leveler attacking and defensive field
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Unread 3 Oct 2010, 11:02   #128
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

If you want to attack a bigger alliance, get help. Even top tier alliances do that when they're hitting each other, so why do you refuse to?
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Unread 3 Oct 2010, 11:11   #129
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu View Post
This subject is one of the worst offenders, wherein only one side ever makes any arguments (hint: it's not your side Marka/Makhil/Kaiba), and the other comes back with the same tired bullshit time and time again (this is your side!).
I tried - but they are ignored.
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...7&postcount=95

I admit the other side is much louder. But I really can't be arsed to back down this time as usual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Theamion View Post
in that case we might as well reduce your definition of activity to its core, count the number of pageclicks per account and that person wins!
In other words, your assumption as stated above is flawed. If you want to reward anything it should be efficient fleet use and score maximization.
I didn't give any definition of activity - neither did you. What you wanna read into this is your own problem
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Originally Posted by Knight Theamion View Post
What? Shouldn't PA put more concern towards those players? As spinner also posted somewhere, this game design is inherently flawed as it needs a constant influx of roids and new players. You are suggesting the opposite it seems, I might be wrong, but please enlighten me then.
New players do not spontaneously organize. Really, this is a game, not a job or a calling. If you are new and you have to do all that stuff you are suggesting, you just find another game.
Actually they do. This is how alliances are formed in the first place

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Theamion View Post
In general you seem to make a mistake a lot of 'smaller tag limit' posters seem to make and that is that if you 'force' people to create 'smaller' tags, they will. I think if you push people towards things they do not want in a game, they stop playing and leave. This point is backed up by the following studies:

Art of Game Design
Theory of Learning
Predicting how people play games

Less scientific, more accessible the points I am referring to are also listed here.
Cycling through those - none of them is related to the problem of alliance sizes directly. It is about good game design - that much we can agree on.
Where we disagree is how good game design should affect tag sizes.
You believe in a community-based approach whereas alliances should get the freedom to act as they like in regard to building up communities.
I believe that alliances have enough freedom with smaller tag levels and that this would have positive effects on politics, as well as options new players have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
but those 5 serious alliances contain most of the active players. So while it only effects the minority of alliances, it effects the bulk of the active players.
Which is the core of the problem.
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Originally Posted by Light View Post
Its not putting more concern, its maintaining the current status-que. At the moment, top alliances tend to allow semi-actives/casuals to remain in there alliance which means that you dont need to be 100% active to be in one of the top alliances. Lower tag limits, means that the top alliances will be requiring full activity and the competition to get in a top alliance is alot harder. Forcing lower active players into worse alliances which isnt really good for the game.
We should be trying to encourage alliances to recruit some casuals/semi-actives and not discard them.
How many of those casuals are new players? Since there is no recruitment but just vouching the number should be close to 0.
Besides the current status-quo has allowed some very horrible blocks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
The semi-active and casual players currently in the top alliances which will get kicked if the alliance limit is reduced to 40 wont be able to join another tag? as who will be active enough and good enough to HC/BC/DC it? Anyone good enough to do that, will be kept in the top alliances and wont be creating a new tag with casuals.
This argumentation is absurd. There are other alliances around with officers crews that are operating below tag limit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
Smaller alliances dont really allow for more competition, it ruins the alliance competition as it makes blocking much more important and the only way to win. With smaller alliances, it becomes more easier to overwelm an alliance with numbers and in a block war.. it allows for blocks to easily organise incomings on every single planet in an alliance, pwning them in one night.
The blocks would have to be made up by many more alliances which makes forming the blocks much more difficult in first place.
Right now you need only 2 alliances to form an impregnable "block".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
I really dislike this thread, as the main reason people seem to be calling for this lower tag limit, is just for 'a change' and it all hinges on people stepping up and creating more alliances, when its been shown that its highly unlikely for that to happen. It could result in one of the worse rounds PA has ever had, It could result in it being a 'fun' round, the point is.. is the tag limit that wrong at the moment that its worth risking? and if it is, should it really be instantly reduced? but slowly reduced over multiple rouns instead.
Yes - the tag limit right now allows too few tags having too much of the active universe.
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Unread 3 Oct 2010, 11:19   #130
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

Quote:
If you want to attack a bigger alliance, get help. Even top tier alliances do that when they're hitting each other, so why do you refuse to?
So your saying we have to nap and ally with others to play this game - some allainces dont wish to be there strategy so there marked down for it? and not able to play the game fairly?
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Unread 3 Oct 2010, 11:26   #131
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
So your saying we have to nap and ally with others to play this game - some allainces dont wish to be there strategy so there marked down for it? and not able to play the game fairly?
Good job not reading my post.

If you want to attack bigger or better alliances (which you say you want), then you already can, by cooperating with other alliances with the same goals.

If you refuse to do that (as you seem to be implying), if you don't make use of all the options available to you, then don't come knocking on my door claiming the game is "unfair", whatever the hell that means.
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Unread 3 Oct 2010, 13:58   #132
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

In all fairness people aren't stopping, and won't start regardless, playing PA because of the tag limits. PA is a pretty shit game which hasn't changed in years and is only still going on the momentum its community imparts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marka
The blocks would have to be made up by many more alliances which makes forming the blocks much more difficult in first place.
Right now you need only 2 alliances to form an impregnable "block".
Yeah. Because that's never happened before in a larger universe.
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Unread 3 Oct 2010, 14:33   #133
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

Been all quiet on the Jagex front.
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Unread 3 Oct 2010, 14:49   #134
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken View Post
Been all quiet on the Jagex front.
You've got to give them time..

although, it isnt really looking that good.

1. They didnt turn up to CH.
2. We havent heard anything from them since that CH.
3. They gave us a JageX community manager, yet we've never seen him at all?
4. There's no communication.
5. There's not even a CH hour scheduled for in between this round.

Hopefully, they're just working things out rather than just sitting there doing nothing. A big company may need time to organise and ive still got my fingers crossed.
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Unread 3 Oct 2010, 14:50   #135
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

FLTV is a good choice since it fluctuated between 4 and 7 alliances over multiple rounds.

NARWEET is also a decent one (7 alliances, which did however split twice as the round progressed and one portion or another secured the political upper hand). And then there was FoS(Fusion of Seven) + XeTa, making up a mere 11 alliance block.

But hey, let's not let the historical record get in the way of a retarded argument!
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Unread 3 Oct 2010, 14:51   #136
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

I would enjoy a round with tags around 200. We don't really need more than 5 or 6 alliances for dynamic politics, and it would be nice for more casual players to get to play with hardcore players.

There aren't many people out there who are willing to start and HC alliances, but there are many, including myself, who are willing to take you along on well-organized raids and help you sort your shit out.
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Unread 4 Oct 2010, 07:17   #137
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

we got like 400-500 active ppl, if even that.. what 200 member tags u guys talking here.. if anything u make em smaller ffs :P
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Unread 4 Oct 2010, 08:23   #138
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

If There is going to be a lower tag limit to say 40 (I am against this)
Please disable the ability to defend out of tag via NAPing

I still prefer 60-100 members per tag though
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Unread 4 Oct 2010, 08:28   #139
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

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Originally Posted by neroon View Post
we got like 400-500 active ppl, if even that.. what 200 member tags u guys talking here.. if anything u make em smaller ffs :P
Last round we had 678 players in alliances of 40 or more players.
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Unread 4 Oct 2010, 10:45   #140
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

im quite sure that tags over 50 ppl had at least like 10 or even more members included that really were not active and just kinda massed 1 ship or something like that.. also we had horde kind of alliances(read: training alliances), that were over 40 members, and im pretty sure they also had more so called inactive ppl than the active ones
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Unread 4 Oct 2010, 13:16   #141
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

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Originally Posted by neroon View Post
im quite sure that tags over 50 ppl had at least like 10 or even more members included that really were not active and just kinda massed 1 ship or something like that.. also we had horde kind of alliances(read: training alliances), that were over 40 members, and im pretty sure they also had more so called inactive ppl than the active ones
A 200 tag alliance wont have 200 properly active players, the higher tag allows the alliance to recruit worse off players. So you could argue that those in the horde would be recruited into the other alliances and all alliances would essentially have training aspects.
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Unread 4 Oct 2010, 16:48   #142
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

so we want 2 shit alliances competing every round for top 1 and top 2 instead of more various and interesting politics and more active alliances in play?
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Unread 4 Oct 2010, 17:22   #143
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

Personally I think alliances should be this big: | |

Obviously that would lead to more dynamic play and make the game better.
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Unread 4 Oct 2010, 20:07   #144
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

Making alliances larger would not succeed in giving newer/ learning or lower level or casual players the ability to join larger alliances. Double the spots and the vouch/ invite only allys will simply merge into double-sized vouch/ invite only allys.

Round 38 ended with 10 allainces recruiting over 40 members, and surprise, that was our t10 list.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a fight over which allys were in the top ten, rather than simply who will be first?

Why is there such an opposition to seeing where this game could go with a more competitive setup? (Especially by removing the ability to def OOT, OOG!)
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Unread 4 Oct 2010, 22:40   #145
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

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Originally Posted by WallBiter View Post

Why is there such an opposition to seeing where this game could go with a more competitive setup? (Especially by removing the ability to def OOT, OOG!)
It wouldn't necessarily be a more competitive setup. As it is now, if the 80 member alliances include 30 or 40 "casual players" and we dropped the tag limit to 40, the casual players would get kicked. So, we'd still have a clear top 5 or 6 alliances, and maybe a lot more crap alliances. More likely, people would just quit.

I'll admit 200 is a bit excessive for the number of players we have, but larger tags that have room for casual players helps us retain those people. I'd rather play a game with 678 players, some of whom are casual, than a game with many fewer hardcore players.
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Unread 5 Oct 2010, 17:25   #146
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

so called casual players have their alliances and so called hardcore players have their own alliances.. ppl get mixed in one way or the other and if they dont in some strange mystical way then whats wrong in having 5 alliances that are competing for top1 rather than 1 or max 2, like we have atm, and another 5 that are abit more behind?

once more.. we have far too few players to manage more than one or maximum two 80-100 player alliances.. and the bottom line is that this is BORING

ps: our basic top3 alliances are nd, asc, app and occasionaly someone new or "old new".. taking account last round, #1 alliance won over #2 with what 50mill score? #2 won over #3 by another 40mill score..

dont tell me that the tags are competitive enough these times to have a good and interesting round
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Unread 5 Oct 2010, 17:30   #147
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

Quote:
Originally Posted by neroon View Post
so called casual players have their alliances and so called hardcore players have their own alliances.. ppl get mixed in one way or the other and if they dont in some strange mystical way then whats wrong in having 5 alliances that are competing for top1 rather than 1 or max 2, like we have atm, and another 5 that are abit more behind?

once more.. we have far too few players to manage more than one or maximum two 80-100 player alliances.. and the bottom line is that this is BORING

ps: our basic top3 alliances are nd, asc, app and occasionaly someone new or "old new".. taking account last round, #1 alliance won over #2 with what 50mill score? #2 won over #3 by another 40mill score..

dont tell me that the tags are competitive enough these times to have a good and interesting round
I hear what you are saying there ... however
Is merger a such a dirty word for some smaller alliances?
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Unread 5 Oct 2010, 17:51   #148
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

Quote:
Originally Posted by neroon View Post
so called casual players have their alliances and so called hardcore players have their own alliances..
Wrong. About half of Ascendancy is fairly inactive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neroon View Post
once more.. we have far too few players to manage more than one or maximum two 80-100 player alliances.. and the bottom line is that this is BORING
Wrong again. Last round we had 4 of 75-80.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neroon View Post
ps: our basic top3 alliances are nd, asc, app and occasionaly someone new or "old new".. taking account last round, #1 alliance won over #2 with what 50mill score? #2 won over #3 by another 40mill score..
I'm detecting a certain pattern here: you're wrong. Who won the last 3 rounds?
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Unread 5 Oct 2010, 17:54   #149
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

u see.. when merged then 2 or more alliances become one, which all in all is still boring and nothing really changes.. the thing im applying to tho is more diverse universe with more alliances that do not need to give away their name, etc and can play competetevely against the rest

im hoping thats how it turns out over a couple of rounds.. if it was just a try for 1 round then ppl would sabotage it neways and nothing more would come apart from flaming in the forums.. and yes, sadly i cant back the idea up with any facts either as this is something that is never been tryed before (and actually there has been no need to try this out either due to having more players right? but times have changed and thats in my eyes something that could possibly make it a notch more interesting and give life to new projects and ppl trying to start em up)

but really, i think theres no point in talking about it nemore.. and if im pretty honest then i cba to type nemore neways.. and this will not be changed for another 10 rounds or something like that neways.. so gl for next round or sth.
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Unread 5 Oct 2010, 17:59   #150
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Re: Alliance Size for next round

Quote:
Originally Posted by neroon View Post
so called casual players have their alliances and so called hardcore players have their own alliances.. ppl get mixed in one way or the other and if they dont in some strange mystical way then whats wrong in having 5 alliances that are competing for top1 rather than 1 or max 2, like we have atm, and another 5 that are abit more behind?
Seriously? Two rounds ago we had a round where 4 different alliances held the top spot at one point or another and where there actually were five realistic contenders for #1.

Alliance tag size is not related to the number of alliances playing the round. Alliance tag size is not related to the competitiveness of the round. This is the reality of the situation.
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