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Unread 31 Mar 2010, 15:31   #201
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Re: donation whores

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Originally Posted by Heartless View Post
what BlueArmy and his galaxy did is not unfair at all, simply because everyone had the chance to do it at that point in time.
not true, only 1 planet per gal could do it. Planetarion shouldn't be about creating a champion in each gal and having the rest of the gal to support him. If PA Team wants that kind of game for next round, I want to hear it from them, not from BA's alliance buddies.
Might be a nice idea for a speedgame though.
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Unread 31 Mar 2010, 15:39   #202
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Re: donation whores

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Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
not true, only 1 planet per gal could do it. Planetarion shouldn't be about creating a champion in each gal and having the rest of the gal to support him. If PA Team wants that kind of game for next round, I want to hear it from them, not from BA's alliance buddies.
Might be a nice idea for a speedgame though.
What if we didn't donate to him, but just did not build up, he build up some and we escorted him with fakes? Is that allowed?
What I am trying to tell you is that what we did was focussing all our galaxy score in one point, making him pretty much invincible for the first few days and then we slowly build up and got donated back from cov op operations.
It is all teamplay.

The flaw in the plan is to just galraid such a galaxy the moment it happens. It is not as if you can hide it that well. Attack, 3 attacks get covered, some stupid fakes get outbuild, the rest lands for free. That were all free roids you could take. But noone dared.
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Unread 31 Mar 2010, 16:29   #203
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Re: donation whores

Light/Hut - get better at planetarion

I actually hope it stays how it is, and loads of people do it next round, it'll be even easier roids than before at the start! All the whining about how its unfair is seriously retarded, it is fair, its within the rules, its a team effort as opposed to 'omg he can get 7 planets to signup donate to him and never play again' do you actually see that happening?

What do you have to say about walldo's gal? Im pretty sure 2 planets took donations in that gal, not only that but the have 2 cov oppers constantly feeding them, is that 'fair?'

What a retarded arguement, ****ing man up.
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Unread 31 Mar 2010, 16:45   #204
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Re: donation whores

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Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
not true, only 1 planet per gal could do it. Planetarion shouldn't be about creating a champion in each gal and having the rest of the gal to support him. If PA Team wants that kind of game for next round, I want to hear it from them, not from BA's alliance buddies.
Might be a nice idea for a speedgame though.
What? Are you insane? For a start, of course every galaxy has the same strategies available at the beginning. Is there any galaxy which does not start with 0 roids or without a donation button? No? See, that is my whole point. Everyone can start in the same setup. Obviously this strategy involves several planets taking a bump in their growth to promote a single planet in that galaxy with a huge fleet. But that is something where the team has to make a decision about its strategy, especially with regards to who wants to or should be the promoted planet. And even within those constraints everyone theoretically has the same chance, unless you are just some sorry little being that obeys some wannabe-dictator-on-the-internet's idiocies. So how you can now claim that my previous statement is not true?

And ultimately I would really like to see everyone else applying this flagship planet strategy next round, as we in Ascendancy could then go and laugh our asses off while showing you guys how to turn what you perceive as an advantage into something that can be quite some disadvantage as well... at least for those few galaxies which will actually manage to pull this off.
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Unread 31 Mar 2010, 17:31   #205
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Re: donation whores

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Originally Posted by BlueArmy View Post
And for ALMIGHTY VISION discussing it in their channel and saying its 'oh so bad'. Strange we havent heard a single complaint or it even being mentioned from you or your brethrens that the second big donation was to a vision planet, however he's barely in the top 50 with his 600 or so roids. So its only bad if the planet that receives the donation can get roids and stay in the top? If the planet that receives the donation just waste it and drop in ranks after a few days its A OK ?
Just because no one likes to waste energy on arguing with Light on IRC does not mean we all agree with her! (this goes for her too)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight_Theamion
To use some highly flawed analogy. Back when I played a lot of Red Alert 2 there were a few things I often did. One was using paratroopers to land at some weird spot where they would occasionally kill, but never be in the main line of approach to my base. I did this untill they were promoted enough to self heal and put them as main defence and added 'free' paratroopers to them. They were protected by the veterans and also upgraded rather fast. This in turn made me almost impossible to attack by land. After that it was just building up some anti air and building in some remote corner a massive army that would wipe away all my opponents at once. Is this also cheating because I 'abused' the promoting/upgrading system?
Another example would be fortressing myself in my base, having some oil refineries so I wouldn't be reliant on harvesters and then just only attack the enemies harvesters/miners and killing of his small start waves at me until he ran out of money. Then almost tickling him to death without incurring much losses.
I just wonder when you would say I am 'cheating' at Red Alert 2 when I use various tactics......
Funny you should mention Red Alert 2.

For those of you who aren't familiar with the game (hopefully only a few), Red Alert 2 is a strategy game where you can choose between several Allied and Soviet countries which all have certain specialties. Germans have armor-piercing tanks for example, while the Americans have paratroopers (which Theam used as example). The French, bastards that they are, have the Grand Cannon turret.

These Grand Cannons have the third biggest firing range in the game (second only to a sub-par unit and a naval unit), with high splash damage. Their purpose was mainly for defense, to be used in one's base. However, on certain smaller maps (or maps with capture-able buildings) these Grand Cannons could be used very efficiently on offense, since their splash damage combined with range could quickly devastate the enemy base.

In 75% of the games that players themselves host, picking France will result in being kicked. (which is similar to people whining in PA)
In 1 vs 1 "tournament games" arranged by the server you can still pick France, however you will never end up playing on certain maps (small maps and with Tech buildings nearby).

So Red Alert 2 definitely has dealt with 'unbalanced gameplay' as much as they could.

In my opinion, 10:4 did nothing against the rules nor do I think it was 'unfair' - I do think the donations should be somewhat adjusted though. Personally I'm more against the covert op planets that donate all their resources (covert ops should be 'gameplay side-dishes' or a kind of 'specialization', not an entirely separate part of PA) but that's another matter.

Just limit donations to <average galaxy score> x 100 total resources, so that one can never get above the galaxy's top scoring planet.
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Unread 31 Mar 2010, 17:41   #206
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Re: donation whores

I'm all for keeping the various strategies balanced. An important aspect of having a fun strategic game is having a lot of different approaches that are all roughly equally strong (though not necessarily equally effective against all strategies).

If (and I've been saying this for quite a while now) this strategy turns out to be overpowered, it should be nerfed until it fits in with other strategies. What I am arguing against, however, is banning strategies because they don't conform to your personal preferred mode of play.
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Unread 31 Mar 2010, 17:42   #207
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
I'm all for keeping the various strategies balanced. An important aspect of having a fun strategic game is having a lot of different approaches that are all roughly equally strong (though not necessarily equally effective against all strategies).

If (and I've been saying this for quite a while now) this strategy turns out to be overpowered, it should be nerfed until it fits in with other strategies. What I am arguing against, however, is banning strategies because they don't conform to your personal preferred mode of play.
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Unread 31 Mar 2010, 21:14   #208
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
I'm all for keeping the various strategies balanced. An important aspect of having a fun strategic game is having a lot of different approaches that are all roughly equally strong (though not necessarily equally effective against all strategies).

If (and I've been saying this for quite a while now) this strategy turns out to be overpowered, it should be nerfed until it fits in with other strategies. What I am arguing against, however, is banning strategies because they don't conform to your personal preferred mode of play.
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Unread 31 Mar 2010, 23:05   #209
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Re: donation whores

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Originally Posted by Knight Theamion View Post
What if we didn't donate to him, but just did not build up, he build up some and we escorted him with fakes? Is that allowed?
Yes as your not donating to him, you're simplying giving him the spoils of victory. Attacking someone for roids is allowed and so is deciding to recall to allow someone else to get those roids but you'll also note that donating roids to someone is not allowed. There is a difference, please stop trying to imply there isnt.

Quote:
What I am trying to tell you is that what we did was focussing all our galaxy score in one point, making him pretty much invincible for the first few days and then we slowly build up and got donated back from cov op operations.
It is all teamplay.
So, making a planet invcible for the first few days is balanced in terms of planets, how exactly?

Quote:
The flaw in the plan is to just galraid such a galaxy the moment it happens. It is not as if you can hide it that well. Attack, 3 attacks get covered, some stupid fakes get outbuild, the rest lands for free. That were all free roids you could take. But noone dared.
How does a gal raid stop the planet? It just stops the galaxy, which may or may not be playing properly either way. No-one dared as it isnt a good galaxy to hit due to the insanely high score planet.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alki View Post
Light/Hut - get better at planetarion
Via donations.

Quote:
I actually hope it stays how it is, and loads of people do it next round, it'll be even easier roids than before at the start! All the whining about how its unfair is seriously retarded, it is fair, its within the rules, its a team effort as opposed to 'omg he can get 7 planets to signup donate to him and never play again' do you actually see that happening?
You want loads of people to do it next round, so PA becomes a game of donations? [applause]

Seriously, I got moaned at this early but can you clarify fair? as how is within the rules fair? If the rules get changed next round does that make BlueArmys tactic unfair? Its not balanced at all.

Again, whats to stop 7 planets signing up next round and then not playing? What do you propose happends? Stop talking about this round as no-one wants a rule change or for him to be closed this round.

Quote:
What do you have to say about walldo's gal? Im pretty sure 2 planets took donations in that gal, not only that but the have 2 cov oppers constantly feeding them, is that 'fair?'
Nope.

Quote:
What a retarded arguement, ****ing man up.
Your argument is retarded. Being inside the rules does not make something fair or balanced especially if its a unintended consequence of new gameplay mechanics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless View Post
What? Are you insane? For a start, of course every galaxy has the same strategies available at the beginning. Is there any galaxy which does not start with 0 roids or without a donation button? No? See, that is my whole point. Everyone can start in the same setup. Obviously this strategy involves several planets taking a bump in their growth to promote a single planet in that galaxy with a huge fleet. But that is something where the team has to make a decision about its strategy, especially with regards to who wants to or should be the promoted planet. And even within those constraints everyone theoretically has the same chance, unless you are just some sorry little being that obeys some wannabe-dictator-on-the-internet's idiocies. So how you can now claim that my previous statement is not true?
Again, this is not an argument for it being balanced or fair. Everyone can recruit as many players as they like but we have alliance limits. Everyone can donate as many resources as they like but we have donation limits.

Starting with the same chance does not make the tactic balanced. As everyone likes to pick other games to draw from, its like in Starcraft if Zerg race comes up with a imba tactic (which is unbalanced) its not automatically balanced as everyone can pick zerg and do that tactic.

This is simply not balanced in the planet rankings. Im sure you've seen the universe page before where this isnt just a galaxy game but also a planet ranking game and a alliance ranking where all 3 have to be balanced as much as possible.

Quote:
And ultimately I would really like to see everyone else applying this flagship planet strategy next round, as we in Ascendancy could then go and laugh our asses off while showing you guys how to turn what you perceive as an advantage into something that can be quite some disadvantage as well... at least for those few galaxies which will actually manage to pull this off.
Yes, Asc is awesome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
If (and I've been saying this for quite a while now) this strategy turns out to be overpowered, it should be nerfed until it fits in with other strategies. What I am arguing against, however, is banning strategies because they don't conform to your personal preferred mode of play.
How are you going to determine if its overpowered? If bluearmy wins the round it means its overpowered? I hope you're not going to suggest that.

I'd really like clarification on how you'll determine weither its overpowered or not? As far as i can see, you should be able to determine that now 290 ticks into the game weither he's got a clear advantage over everyone else who went an alternate strategy?
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Unread 31 Mar 2010, 23:16   #210
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Re: donation whores

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Originally Posted by Light View Post
So, making a planet invcible for the first few days is balanced in terms of planets, how exactly?
because that score is NOT at the other 7 planets ingal?

Jesus, have you been dropped on your head as a kid a lot?
You are not using arguments light. You are not responding to arguments. There is no logic in the things you say. STOP IT.
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Unread 31 Mar 2010, 23:30   #211
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Re: donation whores

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Originally Posted by Knight Theamion View Post
because that score is NOT at the other 7 planets ingal?
each player is allowed a planet, not a whole gal. Fairness should be based on planet vs planet, not gal vs gal...

We could argue until round ends. Let's put it to rest it's in the hands of PA team now.
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Unread 31 Mar 2010, 23:40   #212
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Re: donation whores

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Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
each player is allowed a planet, not a whole gal. Fairness should be based on planet vs planet, not gal vs gal...

We could argue until round ends. Let's put it to rest it's in the hands of PA team now.
They already think it is pretty hillarious what we do!
Also, if fairness is based on planet to planet why in gods name should we not be allowed to priv gal every round and why in gods name are there donations and why in gods name should random galaxies be any different in terms of fairness than priv gals?

why why why?
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Unread 31 Mar 2010, 23:57   #213
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
each player is allowed a planet, not a whole gal. Fairness should be based on planet vs planet, not gal vs gal...

We could argue until round ends. Let's put it to rest it's in the hands of PA team now.
Honestly, I think fairness should be based on alliance v alliance. Any other wins are pretty ****ing meaningless already anyway.
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Unread 1 Apr 2010, 09:25   #214
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Re: donation whores

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Fairness

Please make it stop. Please.
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Unread 1 Apr 2010, 11:38   #215
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Re: donation whores

Hehe, i see my old Ministry friends are doiing it again
this is the reason why donating possibility has been removed in P l a n e t i a

lol again :P
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Unread 1 Apr 2010, 13:23   #216
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Re: donation whores

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Originally Posted by Light View Post
stuff
Why, Light, why, why? Why do you do it? Why? Why carry on? Why keep arguing? Do you believe you're fighting for something, for equality in planetarion? Can you tell me what it is? Do you even know? Is it fairness? Or jelousy? Perhaps boredom? Could it be from sheer envy? Delusions, Light, vagaries of perception, temporary constructs of a feeble human intellect trying desperately to justify fairness and equality without the use of logic or reason. You must be able to see it, Light, you must know it by now, you cant win. It's pointless to keep fighting. Why, Light, why, why do you persist?
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Unread 1 Apr 2010, 14:01   #217
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Re: donation whores

Bluearmy is just the giant homosexual tip of the donation iceberg. There are plenty more people getting donations or donating things away, and while he is the most obvious, he is certainly not the worst. In fact it's pretty much becoming mandatory for the top gals to play around with the gal fund this round. You can talk about things being fair or unfair until you are blue in the face but it really has very little relevance here.

I do like donations as a possibility, as well as people going cov-opping being able to help their gal mates in that way, but it still needs a lower limit. 20 million maximum donations would make it a viable but in no way earthshattering tactic.
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Xan: 3rd(r36), 40th(r57) 54th(r33), 104th(r29)
Cat: 8th (r54), 9th(r48), 12th (r55), 20th(r32), 77th(r23), 103rd(r38), 150th(r34), 152nd(r24),
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Unread 1 Apr 2010, 15:33   #218
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Theamion View Post
because that score is NOT at the other 7 planets ingal?

Jesus, have you been dropped on your head as a kid a lot?
You are not using arguments light. You are not responding to arguments. There is no logic in the things you say. STOP IT.
So you're saying that there should be no donation limits, as anything donated has a negative effect on the planet donating it?

Again, by that logic roid donations and ship donations within a galaxy or alliance should be allowed.

I also said in terms in terms of planet balance, not galaxy balance. There are 3 ways to win in planetarion via planet/galaxy and alliance and all have to be balanced as much as possible with no tactic being overwelming overpowered in relation to other tactics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Theamion View Post
They already think it is pretty hillarious what we do!
Also, if fairness is based on planet to planet why in gods name should we not be allowed to priv gal every round and why in gods name are there donations and why in gods name should random galaxies be any different in terms of fairness than priv gals?

why why why?
I havent seen any PA Team member post in this thread? except the occasional multihunter which have said its not cheating but the rules should be changed.

As its also balanced on galaxy and alliance, we dont have priv gals every round as its not balanced and doesnt give any chance to a new player, basically forcing them to go random into a farm galaxy.

Donations main aim is to help newer or lower players in the galaxy to grow or to compensate a player who 'took a hit' for the galaxy. Its a unintended consequence that the current donation rules allow a planet to be donated to clear #1.

Also you'll note the PA Team 'tried' to balance random galaxys by giving them more players.

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Originally Posted by Linkie View Post
Honestly, I think fairness should be based on alliance v alliance. Any other wins are pretty ****ing meaningless already anyway.
I somewhat agree with this, Alliance wins and alliance wars are the main aim and the motivation behind alot of players. Its also what most players care about (unless they happen to be in the top10 planets or top3 galaxys).

However, fairness in terms of balance should also be trying to balance out the galaxy and planet ranks as well so that there are no tactics which allow a clear-cut advantage. As ive said before, if you'd like to see a tactic where by you can start with a value lead, then have it as a goverment with a one-off resource payment and balance it with lower income overall. That seems to be the main thing about goverments, some offer short term advantages to get you off to a great start and some offer short term disadvantages which slowly become better as the round goes on.

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Originally Posted by H1TMANish View Post
Random Babble
Ty for the input and while i appreciate the time taken to try and make your trolling seem intelligent; it failed.

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Originally Posted by Zotnam View Post
Bluearmy is just the giant homosexual tip of the donation iceberg. There are plenty more people getting donations or donating things away, and while he is the most obvious, he is certainly not the worst. In fact it's pretty much becoming mandatory for the top gals to play around with the gal fund this round. You can talk about things being fair or unfair until you are blue in the face but it really has very little relevance here.
I dont really see how it has little relevence, especially if now donations are mandatory for a top galaxy to stay top (and top planet to stay top). I try not to mention bluearmy at all, as that has no relevence as im not trying to get him closed nor claim he is a cheater.. I would like a discussion on rule changes about the donation system for next round, however it seems Asc does not want any discussion on it and just keep saying 'its completly balanced and fair' (while some members have been saying they would like no donation limits, roid and ship donations to be allowed, and no alliance tag limits.. None of which i see as balanced nor have any reasons been said why its a good idea).

Quote:
I do like donations as a possibility, as well as people going cov-opping being able to help their gal mates in that way, but it still needs a lower limit. 20 million maximum donations would make it a viable but in no way earthshattering tactic.
I dislike the donation system in general.

We have made ship production give you score so you cannot hide your score, yet we still allow planets to hide there score via the gal fund.
We have made ship donations and roid donations against the rules but allow resource donations on a massive scale (at the beginning of the round, Its not such a huge value gain later on).

The only thing i like about the donation system is the ability to help lower players to build up or to compensate someone who gave up there roids ingal to help someone else ingal when under attack.
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Unread 1 Apr 2010, 15:42   #219
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Re: donation whores

Actually if you read carefully what the better debaters and forum posters state here Light, they are saying very little, they are only pointing out the various logical fallacies that you use and the non-arguments put forward by you.

Also do I have to remind you that you cannot donate to someone below the galaxy average, so only at the start can you do something which influences the ranks like this, but it hardly influences the endgame (this is a prediction)
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Unread 1 Apr 2010, 16:53   #220
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Re: donation whores

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Originally Posted by Light View Post
I havent seen any PA Team member post in this thread? except the occasional multihunter which have said its not cheating but the rules should be changed.
Quote:
however it seems Asc does not want any discussion on it and just keep saying 'its completly balanced and fair'
Perhaps you should read the thread. There are also Ascendancy members who think that it's not perfectly balanced - again, as you would know if you bothered to do your research.
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Unread 1 Apr 2010, 17:23   #221
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Re: donation whores

To be honest, Light, going by your logic the first thing we should do is close ND for having 20 more people than everybody else. It´s allowed by the rules, it´s possible by the game mechanics, but the tags were created to provide a levelled field of competition. ND clearly has an unfair advantage with 20 extra planets. Close them down NOW!
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Unread 1 Apr 2010, 18:59   #222
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Re: donation whores

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the tags were created to provide a levelled field of competition
not even in my dreams
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Unread 2 Apr 2010, 07:42   #223
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Re: donation whores

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Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
not even in my dreams
I didn´t talk to you, I talked to Light.

And yea, of course not, but it´s such a great example to show how identical starting conditions lead to quite "unfair" outcomes within the rules.

By the way, we should really cut down the tag limit to counting planets. Anything else is quite ridiculous in terms of "balancing and fairness".

Last edited by rUl3r; 2 Apr 2010 at 08:30.
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Unread 2 Apr 2010, 08:12   #224
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Re: donation whores

Jesus ****ing Christ, the next person to use the word fair is going to get their head bashed in.
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Unread 2 Apr 2010, 11:08   #225
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Re: donation whores

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Originally Posted by rUl3r View Post
I didn´t talk to you, I talked to Light.

And yea, of course not, but it´s such a great example to show how identical starting conditions lead to quite "unfair" outcomes within the rules.

By the way, we should really cut down the tag limit to counting planets. Anything else is quite ridiculous in terms of "balancing and fairness".
lets have no taglimit, but only 1-3 planets counts!
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Unread 2 Apr 2010, 12:07   #226
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by rUl3r View Post
To be honest, Light, going by your logic the first thing we should do is close ND for having 20 more people than everybody else. It´s allowed by the rules, it´s possible by the game mechanics, but the tags were created to provide a levelled field of competition. ND clearly has an unfair advantage with 20 extra planets. Close them down NOW!
1. Im not asking for anyone to be closed anymore, i started in this thread asking for that until someone actually explained what the support rule said (I presumed it covered multiple donations to one planet in order to give that planet a huge advantage) but it seems it doesnt. Im asking for a discussion on what the rules for donations should be for next round.

2. Tag limit does get changed round by round when required. So your point is moot as we do change the tag limit based on whats happend in the game and what the alliance states are. ND has more planets this round due to the PA Team highering the tag limit by a huge amount with late notice. Next round, i'd guess at least one more alliance will reach that 90-100 limit.
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Unread 2 Apr 2010, 12:07   #227
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Re: donation whores

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Jesus ****ing Christ, the next person to use the word fair is going to get their head bashed in.
that wouldn't be fair
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Unread 2 Apr 2010, 16:08   #228
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
1. Im not asking for anyone to be closed anymore, i started in this thread asking for that until someone actually explained what the support rule said.
There's only really one person in this game history that has arguably known what the support rule says: this person is Assassin, as he is the person who came up with such a rule in the first place. He's very reluctant to explain himself in public, though, so odds are, you won't get a more accurate a description of the rule than what the EULA states. And the end user license agreement you can read from the sign up part where you agree to it. In addition to the holy grail, the Planetarion support planet rule remains one of the greatest mysteries in the mankind's history.
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Unread 7 Apr 2010, 16:28   #229
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Re: donation whores

Just take away the donation functions..

People use gal fund to hide resources for last week jump for their gals.. They use alliance fund for same purposes... They fill these funds with cov ops where their safe from all eyes/cov ops..

If there's no moral way to judge on what is legal in donations then they should just remove them whole feature as it ruins game more than it gives back by helping those poor "crashing" bastards.
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Unread 7 Apr 2010, 21:16   #230
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Re: donation whores

With an 8 man gal we have steadily been donating people into top 25 value the last weeks. It's pretty hillarious.
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Unread 8 Apr 2010, 07:28   #231
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Re: donation whores

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Londo pretty much summed it up. Some players noticed the maximum donation limit was 50 million and aimed to get it done asap. If the galaxy planets reset, they leave the galaxy.
They've sacrificed their planets and are relying on being Xans; the 1 Terran in no way can cover them.

The 1 Terran can also in no way get any large amounts of xp or anything more than minimum cap. He can't hit many more than the top 30-50 planets, if that. I think he's going to struggle to get roids whilst others stockpile them.

Whilst the MH have the final say, I'm actually interesed to see if he finishes top 10 this round. I'm not sure he will.

Edit: Also, any attackers stealing his roids will get pretty high xp and so catch him up more quickly

I could think of nothing that would give me more of a burning desire to win planetarion than a 'creator' telling me I'm not going to finish top 10.

BlueArmy, if you don't win now, you fail
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Unread 8 Apr 2010, 16:32   #232
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Re: donation whores

Appocomaster never said BlueArmy wasn't going to end top10.

In fact, the only one who has said he wasn't going to win, was BlueArmy himself!
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Unread 12 Apr 2010, 21:04   #233
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Re: donation whores

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i'm not saying that if he crashed all that value he'd find himself being hit with a baseball bat from a dark alley, but he might want to start wearing a safety helmet and padding if he did
wot you say?!
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Unread 12 Apr 2010, 21:05   #234
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Re: donation whores

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Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
Appocomaster never said BlueArmy wasn't going to end top10.

In fact, the only one who has said he wasn't going to win, was BlueArmy himself!
looks like what he predicted has come true..
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Unread 12 Apr 2010, 22:04   #235
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Re: donation whores

so much fuss for nothing..
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Unread 12 Apr 2010, 22:17   #236
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Re: donation whores

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so much fuss for nothing..
Yea well, while it was obvious BA would manage to crash, someone more competent might have put those donations to a real use
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Unread 12 Apr 2010, 22:19   #237
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Re: donation whores

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Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
Appocomaster never said BlueArmy wasn't going to end top10.

In fact, the only one who has said he wasn't going to win, was BlueArmy himself!
There is a reason I used bold and underline in my post. Refer.
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Unread 12 Apr 2010, 22:33   #238
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Re: donation whores

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There is a reason I used bold and underline in my post. Refer.
So you managed to quote, bold AND underline someone's words and still misinterpret them?

Amazing.
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Unread 13 Apr 2010, 23:26   #239
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Re: donation whores

BlueArmy is almost in donation range again.
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Unread 15 Apr 2010, 04:05   #240
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Re: donation whores

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
By very definition, doing something out of the ordinary is more interesting than doing the same thing you've always done. Beyond that, perhaps you could stop putting up straw men.
Maybe for that one person, but not for everybody else!

I'm sure most people do agree that this tactic is something new and 'relatively' interesting. If every galaxy did it next round, how interesting would the round really be?

The start up bonus is there for a reason, to get the game into action faster. If everyone decides to start doing the donation thing, then the game just takes longer to get going. (They won't of course, as i'd imagine the people who did donate had a pretty boring start to the round? I dunno)

This reminds me of the whole private galaxys thing being implemented, fortress galaxys where not against the rules, but it was certainly an abuse/tactic of the exiling rule. As this donating malarky is an ABUSE!/tactic of the donation rule.

PA Team decided private galaxys where a worthwhile tactic and coded them into the game. Will they now decide donating is a worth while tactic in the game and code it in? for example, give the private galaxys a startup bonus and they can either spread it equally to all planets or give it to one planet? I don't think so, because although an 'interesting' tactic, it's a pretty boring tactic if everyone did it, as I mentioned above, it would slow the game down for the 900 planets or so not getting a start up bonus. Saying that, variation is the spice of life?

Anyways, if the intention of the donations was to get a planet / galaxy win it doesn't seem to have worked. The only other intention from this tactic could be to make the round more interesting for the galaxy involved, has it? (actual in-game entertainment, the lulz from forums and irc can't be included as it wouldn't be such a shock next round, thus the lulz shall be lost)

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Unread 15 Apr 2010, 06:44   #241
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Re: donation whores

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Maybe for that one person, but not for everybody else!

I'm sure most people do agree that this tactic is something new and 'relatively' interesting. If every galaxy did it next round, how interesting would the round really be?
I don't know? I don't see why its relevant how many people do it. Every galaxy defends itself, that doesn't make the round boring, does it?

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Originally Posted by Scott View Post
The start up bonus is there for a reason, to get the game into action faster.
No, the startup bonus is there as a replacement for 48 ticks of protection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott View Post
If everyone decides to start doing the donation thing, then the game just takes longer to get going. (They won't of course, as i'd imagine the people who did donate had a pretty boring start to the round? I dunno)
Seems like a pretty solid argument against donating all your resources to some dweep in your galaxy.

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Originally Posted by Scott View Post
This reminds me of the whole private galaxys thing being implemented, fortress galaxys where not against the rules, but it was certainly an abuse/tactic of the exiling rule. As this donating malarky is an ABUSE!/tactic of the donation rule.
The only reason you call it abuse is because you don't like the strategy. It's emotional language that just clouds the issue at hand.

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Originally Posted by Scott View Post
PA Team decided private galaxys where a worthwhile tactic and coded them into the game. Will they now decide donating is a worth while tactic in the game and code it in?
It already is coded in. There's no need for a "donate all your resources to your galmate" button.

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Originally Posted by Scott View Post
Anyways, if the intention of the donations was to get a planet / galaxy win it doesn't seem to have worked. The only other intention from this tactic could be to make the round more interesting for the galaxy involved, has it? (actual in-game entertainment, the lulz from forums and irc can't be included as it wouldn't be such a shock next round, thus the lulz shall be lost)
Yeah. So what exactly is the problem? It doesn't appear to be either overpowered nor even very efficient.

I am perfectly happy with letting people decide for themselves "hey, this strategy is ****ing boring, I'll do something else".
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Unread 15 Apr 2010, 17:08   #242
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
No, the startup bonus is there as a replacement for 48 ticks of protection.
Which was implimented to get the game going faster.

Anyways, my main point was people saying it's an interesting tactic blah blah. I think all xan fortress gals is interesting, xp whoring is interesting. This is not.

P.s Karl Pilkington is hilarious,

That is all.
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Unread 16 Apr 2010, 02:49   #243
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Re: donation whores

If anything it made the start of the round MORE interesting for us as we had to work that little bit harder to get going, and it was a different tactic to anything we had done before. Definitely the most interesting round start I've had for a while! ( not being too hard to achieve though as this is my first proper round since 3-4 years).
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Unread 22 Apr 2010, 10:58   #244
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott View Post
Which was implimented to get the game going faster.
It was implemented because initing for 72 ticks appeared rather boring to the people in charge. It was just a matter of activity, but I somehow miss the 72 hours protection considering the influence choices had. Maybe the effect of those choices are exaggerated in my memories though.

Quote:
Anyways, my main point was people saying it's an interesting tactic blah blah. I think all xan fortress gals is interesting, xp whoring is interesting. This is not.
You´re welcome not to use this tactic if you think it´s boring. However, judging a tactic as "boring" is certainly no argument for banning it for everyone. There´s quite alot in this game I find boring, yet it´s there and you don´t find me running around asking for things to be banned.
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Unread 22 Apr 2010, 11:02   #245
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by rUl3r View Post
It was implemented because initing for 72 ticks appeared rather boring to the people in charge. It was just a matter of activity, but I somehow miss the 72 hours protection considering the influence choices had. Maybe the effect of those choices are exaggerated in my memories though.
You can still make the exact same choices now as you used to make during protection.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 22 Apr 2010, 12:28   #246
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
You can still make the exact same choices now as you used to make during protection.
Well, choice of government and population settings influenced the amount of research and construction points you got from tick 1 on. Now you got a startup on constructions/research which is not influenced by this choice anymore.

Might not have had a really noticeable effect though. As I said, it was probably more a feeling of a choice than a meaningful impact on the start you got.
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Unread 23 Apr 2010, 22:39   #247
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Re: donation whores

the meaningful aspect of doing it in 48 ticks was that you could distinguish yourself from the less active planets out there, effectively creating a bigger gap between the few ppl who actually init every 2 ticks and the ppl who loose ticks on that or who accidently loose a few research or construction ticks..


with the old setup, i usually ended up being at least top 100 when it was around tick 78-80, when ships were done completely and first raid would be underway. With new setup, the difference between top valued and rank 500 value is much smaller. Not saying thats a bad thing, its really not cause theres more ppl u can roid easily and it gives new players a chance to loosely start but get a nice income immediately.

only thing that bothers is the fact that putting more effort into the game does not pay off like it used to. It seems all changes that are made only help the lazy, and make standing out a matter of luck and what alliance u joined and how round evolvs for alliance rather than a matter of how much time you put in playing the game

this has a drawback on alliances as a whole too, as nobody cares to put much time into alliances no more, also due to the fact that its so easy to use ingame tools , u cannot stand out by having great set of webby tools. I just hope it doesnt have a negative effect on the attrativeness of new players

and to get back to topic: i dont mind ppl trying to look to exploit rules, this is quite a good example of an attempt which failed to take the expected / hoped for advantage, other attempts have been more successfull (first round of xp exploit) , it reminds the admin to keep thinking of game mechanics.
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Unread 24 Apr 2010, 00:06   #248
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Re: donation whores

By placing less emphasis on activity, skill and (more significantly) organisation becomes much more important. As an example, the reason CT hasn't been able to amount to much in the way of the rankings in the last 10 rounds or so is not because they're not active, it's because they're not organised as well as alliances like Apprime, Ascendancy or even DLR are. Note that "being organised" is far from "having a tight hierarchy".
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 24 Apr 2010, 11:29   #249
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Re: donation whores

And how would you describe 'being organised' then? I am with you on the fact that its far from 'having a tight hierarchy' . But organisation of an alliance ususally means a set of rules made by creators of the alliance, and everything that is build around those rules

For example, organisation in DLR means you generally give up actual power to decide things, and at same time u strongly agree to not being taken by the hand but are expected to pull ur weight without tight chains. A few ppl decide, who are generally regarded as ppl who listen to arguments and are rational to make the decisions.

If this is what you mean by organisation, a set of rules and setup for alliance, and you regard that as much more important than activity, I have to disagree.

Activity is still what drives an alliance. Yes, a good strategy thought out at roundstart is important, but one can have the best strategy but lack of the ppl who can live up to whats expected, and organisation breaks apart. Not due to how its organised, but due to the memberbase as a whole.

The game mechanics of rewarding lower activity means that alliances' organisation breaks apart more easily. And, on the contrary to what you said, its actually the activity of the memberbase that makes the difference. As the average Conspiracy member doesnt feel the need to check in for 5 hours when they can set 2 researches in queue, 2 constructions, roundstart being done in just 1 tick.

This means less activity on IRC, less bonding with the alliance, and a vicious circle is born. The alliances that become victorious are the ones with the most active memberbase, combined with experience in how to play. However, sad thing is, this fact does not lead to more activity among players. No, it actually makes the gap between the winning alliances and the losing ones even bigger.

So no, i do not agree with you that organisation has become so much more important. Alliance like CT and ND have had their round wins without organisation like (i think) u mean (preround strategy in fleetcomposition , race choice, how ppl are to be distributed in galaxys etc) Joy, activity, momentum and politics make more difference.
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Unread 24 Apr 2010, 11:54   #250
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Re: donation whores

DLR was founded on roiding nubs and sleep at night (american time).
Apprime proved this for real in r34 by hitting them 0800 gametime and rape the shit out of them, because the precious primadonnas needed their beautysleep.

This round they finally get targetted all round, so maybe they learn how its like to be in a war and can come back stronger next round.
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