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Unread 25 Apr 2008, 15:29   #1
Ave
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Getting more action during day

Quote:
Originally Posted by GReaper
I entirely agree that this game is incredibly boring apart from at night time when everyone has their fleets on pre-launch. If you want to play seriously then the only way to do it is sacrifice sleep - which people with other commitments just can't do these days. I'm sure many of us started this game as students but have now moved on.

Start a new thread if you feel you've got decent suggestions for it though.
Any of these suggestions aren't tought thrue really, just some ideas to add some more action for the day/game.

Give us 4 fleets and code a time limitation when u can launch them. 2 fleets for day 2 for night (1 def 1 att). Perhaps stats needs to be edited to day and night form also. So all ships cant be used at once. Then you have battles going on 24/7 unless someone want to give the advantage away to not launch twice a day. Also take this in consideration with basic resource income we have. Pre-lauch still ables the less active to launch twice possibly.

Add more instant/quciker methods to attack eachother, but make them defence able and less damaging. Example some rockets or sneak in robot attacks, where alliance can launch shields or counter rockets to def them. Make them notice able in alliance defence screen or something.

Add some galaxy projects that force you to work with your galaxy more closely, make communication and organisation worth more. Building and colecting fund for a common research to improve all planets in the galaxy is a good way to add some galaxy co-operation. Also the bigger and better can help the smaller ones this way (paying more for example.)

(extra shield for ships, scan blockers, -eta in galaxy defence, better protection against cov-op and so on....)

Add some artifacts that give a bonus of some type. Everyone can choose an artifact package from their coverment, which they will use, The artifacts could be stolen by the cov-ops and attacks or some sneak in robot hits. So the artifacts that the target own can be taken in consideration too when u pick a target and when u scan for a target.

(artifacts extra -eta, extra damage, extra resources, extra scan supporters, extra cov-op supporters, extra rocket shields, extra something, those can be made negative too ) This helps everyone to unique their armies and accounts even more.

Add some daily missions or task to do in the universe. Such as find a target for tonight, which u need to mark and launch to later on... will give u a bonus. Or something else which aint completely dull and childish and that actually can help you with the battles.
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Unread 25 Apr 2008, 15:42   #2
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Re: Getting more action during day

No.
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Unread 25 Apr 2008, 16:00   #3
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Re: Getting more action during day

One quick thought I did have was to go back to 3 tick attacking, though I'm sure many people might not agree with it.

At the moment it's possible to wake up with 5 fleets incoming to your planet, you may or may not get defence and if all such attacks are successful then you lose about 75% of your roids in the exciting game of pass the roids, 3 successful waves is about 55%.

Firstly the cap percentage would obviously be reduced (10% a tick), so if you can't get defence for the first tick then it's possible to have other waves defended instead of it being pointless to defend. If 3 attackers really did want to get their maximum cap of roids then they'd obviously have to attack me over 9 ticks. The damage would be spread out over time.

Secondly it could force people to stay for the attack if the only option was for a full 3 tick attack (no 1 or 2 tick attack options). If your target gets defence for the 2nd and 3rd ticks then you have to manually recall at the right time. This would force a user to be around during the attack or recall early if they can't. Some users tend to prelaunch, get a scan at the right time, then might not check the game again until a few hours after the attack takes place. For these users it might change their attack patterns slightly.

It would be impossible to fit an entire alliances attacks into a couple of galaxies for multiple waves. It might force attacks to have varied times.
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Unread 25 Apr 2008, 16:59   #4
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Re: Getting more action during day

I think its ok u dont have to be there when attack takes place. Makes it easier to launch and still do your work. Alltho when I login next time to see the battle outcome, would be awesome if there were something else to do than just see your fleet returning the next 10 hours.
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Unread 25 Apr 2008, 18:49   #5
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Re: Getting more action during day

Quote:
Originally Posted by GReaper
It would be impossible to fit an entire alliances attacks into a couple of galaxies for multiple waves. It might force attacks to have varied times.
No. It would make alliances pick more galaxies, increasing the chance (by now I think we can speak almost of a certainty) of piggying, making arranging defence a nightmare.

I honestly see no advantages of 3 tick attacks compared to 1 tick attacks.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 25 Apr 2008, 20:00   #6
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Re: Getting more action during day

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ave
Add some galaxy projects that force you to work with your galaxy more closely, make communication and organisation worth more. Building and colecting fund for a common research to improve all planets in the galaxy is a good way to add some galaxy co-operation. Also the bigger and better can help the smaller ones this way (paying more for example.)
each tick, add the spent resources of all planets, then distribute a small percentage equally among all planets (or among all planets not in c200) as additional resource income.
(may work on galaxy level or on universe level)
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Unread 26 Apr 2008, 08:13   #7
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Re: Getting more action during day

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
No.
You shouldnt be so negative. After all, this is a suggestions forum, and Ave is making a number of suggestions that are designed to remove the focus from the rather simplistic "night" attacks that go on in this game and try to spice it up for the daytime.

If you have concerns with particular suggestions, then you should address each one sequentially. That's what the QUOTE function is for!!

Some of those ideas in the original post i am strongly against: the -1 ETA artifact, the -1 ETA in-gal "Project": because ETA is so critical to defence, altering it is waaaay too overpowered.

BUt artifacts generally are an interesting idea that should be built upon: they would be like Golden Roids but less restrictive (or more common) id you do Covert or other attacks (perhaps %age chance of getting a new artifact for defence only; as everyone attacks for roid gain anyway?).

Missile/Rocket attacks are interesting too and should definately be expanded upon. Perhaps they could be used to intercept ships that are already in transit (whereas covert ops can only hit stuff on a planet?).



Something that I mentioned elsewhere to allieviate the boredom was a Planetarion Casino: play roulette with resources, and so on.
I'm sure that there would be enough internet code out there to emulate for in-game purposes (because we dont - yet - have a single Currency unit, i suppose some combination of M/C/E would be needed). Even these forums have similar in-built games, which could be played and possibly bet on as well - or if you win, then you get xy resources or ships or something (or artifacts??).

A Casino would be nice though .
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Unread 26 Apr 2008, 10:10   #8
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Re: Getting more action during day

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
You shouldnt be so negative. After all, this is a suggestions forum, and Ave is making a number of suggestions that are designed to remove the focus from the rather simplistic "night" attacks that go on in this game and try to spice it up for the daytime.

If you have concerns with particular suggestions, then you should address each one sequentially. That's what the QUOTE function is for!!
I have read the suggestions and decided none of them should be implemented. Hence the "no". It was not meant to mean "never post here again", nor "you are an idiot", nor "I'll turn down every idea you'll ever come up with". Just that the suggestions he made in this thread were, quite frankly, shit.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 26 Apr 2008, 10:21   #9
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Re: Getting more action during day

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
I have read the suggestions and decided none of them should be implemented. Hence the "no". It was not meant to mean "never post here again", nor "you are an idiot", nor "I'll turn down every idea you'll ever come up with". Just that the suggestions he made in this thread were, quite frankly, shit.
Irrespective, i'm not sure that you're giving this other user the respect that someone who is interested in improving the game deserves. Further, you've put forward nothing of your own, in addition to not bothering to mention (even briefly) why you dont think they should be implemented.

Imo, i think its just poor form. But its not my place to be critical of other's posting style, but just replying with "no" on a suggestions forum is a best flippant and at worst, counter-productive.

What was so hard about giving some reasoning?
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Unread 26 Apr 2008, 13:34   #10
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Re: Getting more action during day

Well the basic idea was to discuss how to add some interest for the game (specially for the daytime also.) The ideas wasnt tought thrue and were purely ment to bring up some discussion and more ideas around them. Mz has worked hard as many others to improve the game for lesser active also. So that it is playable for all, regardless your online times. Which I generally think is the way to do it. This whole topic kind of fights against his ideology, so I aint suprised of his response. But soon we are on a situation, (I would say we are allready), when the game turns deadly booring. (Not that it ever was any action rich, but atleast there were reasons to be online sometimes.)

Also a simple no is fine for me if he disagrees to topic or the suggestions above. I dont think you need to write an essee out of everything Even tho he is the one favouring them usually :P


about your suggestion UN, casino sounds do-able, but I think it goes bit out of the frames the game is catecorized in. The "improvements" should imo be more related to the actual game play and to give gains on the coming fights. How ever some kind of universal/cluster/alliance based market place could be worth a tought, if we just find something to trade there. Perhaps those artifacts, rockets, shields, scans even captured fleet etc. that u dont need yourself. Trade it for funds. Ofc the trades need to be set as some calculated form, so that u can't abuse the system. Maybe we can add some scans or something to find "stuff." to sell or keep and units that can steal them also.

Only this would take quite a bit of time to code :P
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Last edited by Ave; 26 Apr 2008 at 13:40.
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Unread 26 Apr 2008, 18:45   #11
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Re: Getting more action during day

Just cut the time it takes for fleets to return in half.
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Unread 26 Apr 2008, 19:17   #12
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Re: Getting more action during day

sounds easy and good solution. That will aid for sure keep it simple
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Unread 26 Apr 2008, 19:24   #13
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Re: Getting more action during day

Fleetcatches.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 26 Apr 2008, 23:15   #14
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Re: Getting more action during day

It would certainly give the possibility for more action if people could attack twice a day with their entire attack fleet.

Don't dismiss a faster return ETA because of fleet catching - you could quite easily provide similar functionality in a slightly different form.
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Unread 26 Apr 2008, 23:22   #15
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Re: Getting more action during day

Quote:
Originally Posted by GReaper
Don't dismiss a faster return ETA because of fleet catching - you could quite easily provide similar functionality in a slightly different form.
I would love to hear a suggestion. Though even if you can find a way of preserving the idea of fleetcatching that's compatible with reduced return ETA, I still have an objection. More attacks on the same number of targets results in a higher chance of piggying, which I think we all agree is not a good thing. The fleetcatching thing is my main problem though.
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Unread 27 Apr 2008, 00:48   #16
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Re: Getting more action during day

Faster return eta should come at a price.
The fastest eta should be if you don't get roids, then the slowest eta if you capped 25%. Between those two you could choose, at launch, that you're going for a lower cap. return eta -1: 20% cap max, eta -2: 15%...
In case of team up, the lower percentage applies to your share.

There should be a cov op allowing to see the return eta

but tbh i'm not convinced allowing a 2nd attack a day is what's needed, i much prefer UN suggestions, a Casino or a stock market, more/better quests
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Unread 27 Apr 2008, 00:52   #17
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Re: Getting more action during day

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
I would love to hear a suggestion. Though even if you can find a way of preserving the idea of fleetcatching that's compatible with reduced return ETA, I still have an objection. More attacks on the same number of targets results in a higher chance of piggying, which I think we all agree is not a good thing. The fleetcatching thing is my main problem though.
There might be a higher chance, but the importance of being piggied is reduced, perhaps. This is because rather than the current one attack per day - which if piggied means that you dont cap for that day, you can attack twice every three days - so if you are piggied then you've still got roids for that day.

Maybe, anyway.


I hate to say this, but perhaps some combination of covert-ops and/or missile attacks might slow fleets down enough to get piggied?

Its a terrible problem to work around. Unless there is an "intercept" option on the missions menu that only works if a fleet is returning to that planet, and will result in the same ETA as that fleet provided that there are no pods and/or the value of the fleet is kept at some rough level which requires lots of people to launch lots of fleets, rather than 1 person able to bash all lowbies.

maybe.
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Unread 27 Apr 2008, 01:13   #18
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Re: Getting more action during day

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
There might be a higher chance, but the importance of being piggied is reduced, perhaps. This is because rather than the current one attack per day - which if piggied means that you dont cap for that day, you can attack twice every three days - so if you are piggied then you've still got roids for that day.
Irrelevant. If I don't cap on one attack, someone else will. It's all relative.


Quote:
Originally Posted by UN
I hate to say this, but perhaps some combination of covert-ops and/or missile attacks might slow fleets down enough to get piggied?

Its a terrible problem to work around. Unless there is an "intercept" option on the missions menu that only works if a fleet is returning to that planet, and will result in the same ETA as that fleet provided that there are no pods and/or the value of the fleet is kept at some rough level which requires lots of people to launch lots of fleets, rather than 1 person able to bash all lowbies.

maybe.
More trouble than its worth.
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Unread 27 Apr 2008, 02:23   #19
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Re: Getting more action during day

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Irrelevant. If I don't cap on one attack, someone else will. It's all relative.
Fair call. I was thinking this, hence all the "maybe"s.

Quote:
More trouble than its worth.
Now, that's a relative term :P.
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Unread 27 Apr 2008, 03:03   #20
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Re: Getting more action during day

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
I would love to hear a suggestion.
Allow fleet catching by sending fleets through the target planet.

- 1:1:1 attacks 1:2:3. A group of players decides to fleet catch 1:1:1 and has to organise an appropriate fleet catch within 1 tick.
- Fleet catchers sends their fleet to 1:2:3, secondary target 1:1:1 before the end of the tick.
- After the battle takes place, the return hypergate could be disrupted and instead of being a fast return ETA it would be the original ETA which was sent to the planet, so 1:1:1 captures roids and returns at a slower pace with X fleets trying to fleet capture at the same ETA.
- However if there are no fleets following the attacker then the return hypergate could give the best possible speed.

Alternatively a single player could send a few ships to disrupt the return hypergate whilst the rest of the fleet catching planets send their ships to attack in the regular way.

I'm not saying it's a perfect idea, but you could quite easily retain the original spirit of the fleet catch even if you change other parts.
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Unread 27 Apr 2008, 07:56   #21
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Re: Getting more action during day

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Fleetcatches.
How about some alliance based option to open jumpgate, which is limited by amount or by credits.
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Unread 27 Apr 2008, 08:18   #22
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Re: Getting more action during day

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Originally Posted by GReaper
I'm not saying it's a perfect idea, but you could quite easily retain the original spirit of the fleet catch even if you change other parts.
Well, that would only reduce the return ETA by 1 tick - i thought the idea was the significantly improve the speed of returning fleets (eg, halve) in order to faciliate more attacking during the "day".

Though what you said was a nice idea. It could be modified to suit a smaller ETA, but that means only galaxy defence (at that tick) or less would be able to prevent a fleetcatch: thus generally outside the purview of alliances which is usually the point.
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Unread 27 Apr 2008, 09:13   #23
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Re: Getting more action during day

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Originally Posted by Ave
How about some alliance based option to open jumpgate, which is limited by amount or by credits.
What? Why limit this to alliances? Why limit this to paid planets? How does this solve the problem?
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Unread 27 Apr 2008, 10:43   #24
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Re: Getting more action during day

Limits to avoid all attacking eta be the 5, or what ever it is then.... otherwise it gets too quick for your taste, but still you can fc some important fleets if u wish.
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Unread 27 Apr 2008, 12:17   #25
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Re: Getting more action during day

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying, but if it is a suggestion to make fleetcatching fleets eta5, you're making fleetcatches unstoppable. Bad idea.
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Unread 27 Apr 2008, 13:02   #26
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Re: Getting more action during day

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
Well, that would only reduce the return ETA by 1 tick - i thought the idea was the significantly improve the speed of returning fleets (eg, halve) in order to faciliate more attacking during the "day".

Though what you said was a nice idea. It could be modified to suit a smaller ETA, but that means only galaxy defence (at that tick) or less would be able to prevent a fleetcatch: thus generally outside the purview of alliances which is usually the point.
When I say disrupt the hypergate, I mean it could be half ETA if the fleet is clear and doesn't have anyone following it, however if another fleet is following it then it could be full ETA. I'm not referring to the particular research ETA.
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Unread 27 Apr 2008, 13:29   #27
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Re: Getting more action during day

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Originally Posted by GReaper
When I say disrupt the hypergate, I mean it could be half ETA if the fleet is clear and doesn't have anyone following it, however if another fleet is following it then it could be full ETA. I'm not referring to the particular research ETA.
Ah yes, that's true. And you did actually say that in your first post too.

Its times like these when i just point to my nickname and sigh .
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Unread 27 Apr 2008, 14:14   #28
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Re: Getting more action during day

One other idea, allow a fleet to switch target once launched - but only once.

Example: 1:1:1 attacks 1:2:3, 1:2:3 manages to get plenty of defence, 1:1:1 would usually recall but instead switches his fleets attack to a new target of 4:5:6. The fleet would be identical, the ETA to the 2nd would start from maximum ETA, but if 1:1:1 wants to recall it would take the maximum ETA of the fleet to return - even just after the switch.

It would allow planets to try an alternative attack without the hassle of having to wait for the fleet to return. So if I wake up in the morning and find that my target has got defence I could try another target instead of an entire day being wasted because the attack failed. Successful attacks wouldn't get the option as you'd only allow it on outgoing fleets, possibly between -5 and -2 ETA on the original planet.

We'd probably get more late morning attacks this way.
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Unread 27 Apr 2008, 15:24   #29
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Re: Getting more action during day

Can somebody PLEASE close this thread before somebody takes it seriously?

The ideas put forth have obviously been thought about in detail, but they're not getting better the more people talk about them.

The point behind shit ideas is that somebody should be able to point out they're shit, like mz is doing here.. or everybody else in my command team telling me that creating 18 tags was NOT constructive in any way.

I know it's a nice feeling when you come up with an idea and it's implemented, but with any luck these wont be so please put a little thought into some new ideas?
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Unread 27 Apr 2008, 16:01   #30
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Re: Getting more action during day

Either comment on the suggestions themselves as to why they're so poor that they shouldn't even be touched, or give extra suggestions on improving an idea if you see any possible potential in them. Don't just dismiss an entire thread without bothering to give a reason. Suggestions which are poor are unlikely to receive a positive reply in the first place - which is pretty much required for it to be implemented. There is no need to jump in with a reply saying "it's shit" because you're scared that the implementation of it might be rushed!

I don't think anyone expects any of these ideas to be implemented, but there is a vague chance of some idea which mildly useful which can be taken, modified and then implemented.

My own opinion is that the original point of the thread is still valid. I've been at the PC most of the day and this game is about as interesting as watching paint dry during that time. Whilst most of the ideas (mine included) aren't that great, it's still a problem worth discussing.
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Unread 27 Apr 2008, 16:32   #31
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Re: Getting more action during day

I couldn't care if the development of these ideas was carefully thought out and implemented over 17 phases throughout a period of 5 rounds. They'd still be as shit as when it was suggested.

You want more action during the day? Go to bed at night and launch when you wake up. If there were enough people who felt the same way as you, then you could gather a whole collection of people together with likeminded interests and all attack during the day so that you'd still get coverage.

You could even call this group of players an 'Alliance', and then when we had enough of these 'Alliances' we could make a rankings system so we could measure success and award the most successful.

Oh wait

Attacking at night time is nothing to do with the game. Attacks are done at night because that's what the community perceive to be 'standard'. If you had a whole alliance attacking during the day, you'd soon start to see change.

Stop waiting for changes to be made for you and start taking some initiative and doing something for a change.
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Unread 27 Apr 2008, 21:58   #32
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Re: Getting more action during day

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Originally Posted by Kenny
Attacking at night time is nothing to do with the game.
Yes and no. There is no in-game feature that restricts you to this attacking time, however night attacking developed because that's when people tend to be less online - and thus less responsive to attack, thus higher chance of success. Success is part of the game, and expecting self-interested people to go against their optimal choice is a bit wierd.

Quote:
Attacks are done at night because that's what the community perceive to be 'standard'.
Attacks are done at night to maximise success, minimise chances of defence, and to not stand out in the crowd.

Attacking during the day does none of these things; even if an alliance started to regularly attack during the day, more defence would be available and more targets online to self cover/prod and all that. So, there is a first-mover disadvantage to breaking from the attack-at-night crowd, which means it shouldnt happen.

Quote:
If you had a whole alliance attacking during the day, you'd soon start to see change.
This is also true. The change would be that alliance would consistantly fall in rankings due to relative lack of success in attack. Not sure if that's a good thing though.


No matter. stay on your high horse. Dont contribute in a positive way because its beneath you. In the meantime, we'll continue to work on ideas that will eventually benefit you too.
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Unread 28 Apr 2008, 00:50   #33
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Re: Getting more action during day

This is from a european point of view only, don't forget the world doesn't stop after GMT+1
So a suggestion for people who want to attack during the day would be to move to a new country a few timezones away.

Greaper idea about switching target once while flying is very interesting and has great potential.
- switching to another target in the same gal would cost 5 extra ticks ?
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Unread 28 Apr 2008, 05:38   #34
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Re: Getting more action during day

What, so your ships would never go home? They'd just keep switching targets in the same gal, until that gal had no more roids left?

Don't be stupid.
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Unread 28 Apr 2008, 10:17   #35
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Re: Getting more action during day

Reread the suggestion again before talking crap.

The idea was that you could only switch to a new target once (storyline: your fleet could run out of fuel otherwise). It would be limited between ETA 2 and 5 on your original target, if it's before ETA 5 then you can recall and send easily, if it's lower then tough luck.

So, it's only on outbound missions, the ETA to your 2nd target starts all over again regardless of where your 2nd target is (attacking the same galaxy again would be ETA 8 for FI/CO), and you're forced to use the same fleet which you can't change, as well as taking at least 7 ticks to return regardless of how far it is on the mission.
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Unread 28 Apr 2008, 14:51   #36
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Re: Getting more action during day

It's still a bad idea.
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Unread 28 Apr 2008, 16:18   #37
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Re: Getting more action during day

Quote:
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Something that I mentioned elsewhere to allieviate the boredom was a Planetarion Casino
Ooo I like this idea, and a selection of minigames would be cool too. This could be attached to the gal forum (currently nearly totally unused), with a array of games to choose from i.e. minigolf, which were compared with others ingal/alliance/universe. Something similar to the Elysium forum, it doesnt even have to have any relation to ingame workings. Just something for the PA community to enjoy, and encourage new people!
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Unread 28 Apr 2008, 18:10   #38
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Re: Getting more action during day

out of all these posts the only good one is faster return times. As an xan i fake a lot .. i send my pods out at eta 8 (de). I wait over night and awake for the jgp. Now.. the jgp is not there to tell me whether i need to recall. It simply tells me whether or not i cap roids that day. Why would i recall a sub 10k value fake pod fleet for an eta 5 to 7 return when i can just let them crash and get my fleet slot back in 1 tick to help defend or resend another fleet if i wish? There is also the benefit of knowing that some defenders may recall on tick.. giving me piss easy roids. If i max cap and get 0 losses im happy with the slow return.

Simple thing what im getting at here.. the return time is the most boring part of the game imo.. seriously just halve it or something it needs to be much quicker than it is. If there was a quicker return time id be more inclined to send out more attacks for sure, especially throughout the day.
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Unread 29 Apr 2008, 10:45   #39
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Re: Getting more action during day

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny
Can somebody PLEASE close this thread before somebody takes it seriously?

The ideas put forth have obviously been thought about in detail, but they're not getting better the more people talk about them.

The point behind shit ideas is that somebody should be able to point out they're shit, like mz is doing here.. or everybody else in my command team telling me that creating 18 tags was NOT constructive in any way.

I know it's a nice feeling when you come up with an idea and it's implemented, but with any luck these wont be so please put a little thought into some new ideas?
Why particular you think it is bad to potentially improve communication and teamplay of your galaxy and put it in higher importance? Arent chats and organisation half of this game?

Why particular you have something against to get more attack/defence calls apear during a day. Arent you the one supporting activity and action, your online times doesnt seem so bad...?

How can you expect your alliance/co-players to sit here and be awailable anytime you need. If they have NO reason to be here, since there is no action going on. My alliance requirements are easily filled by pre-launching during the evening and waking up to send def before work.... but if the game is all about losing 15 mins of my sleep from the evening and morning. Good god why I am here?

Most of thse ideas aren't the most original and on a way or another implented in other games allready. So they should have some potential to be edited in use in here also.

If you open some game console, you expect it to give some fun for you and something to happen there. Thats why other games take all the new flesh, not us.
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Unread 2 Mar 2010, 12:26   #40
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Re: Getting more action during day

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