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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 21:59   #1
Flavius
 
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Go Bush Go!

US debt limit nears $9 trillion

I bet he will be seen as the dictator who truly ****ed up that country of his.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 22:13   #2
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Re: Go Bush Go!

That's quite a lot of money.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 22:19   #3
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Congress must pass all bills dealing with money. The president can't do it by himself.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 22:22   #4
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Exclamation Re: Go Bush Go!

My share of the national debt is about $30,000.00--about the average price of a new car.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 22:24   #5
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
Congress must pass all bills dealing with money. The president can't do it by himself.
N00b Its like saying that the Iranian president doesnt hold the true power. While its factually true, its also irrelevant.

I admittedly begin to admire Georgies Style.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 22:25   #6
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Re: Go Bush Go!

You know nothing of the way American politics work.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 22:26   #7
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
You know nothing of the way American politics work.
Want to bet?

The point isnt if you are factually right, which i already mentioned.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 22:28   #8
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Re: Go Bush Go!

The national debt has grown at a staggering rate since the 30's regardless of who is in power. That, in an election year, congress would decide to raise the national debt ceiling for the umpteenth time, is less than shocking. The same would have been done under, Clinton, Gore or Kerry.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 22:30   #9
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
The national debt has grown at a staggering rate since the 30's regardless of who is in power. That, in an election year, congress would decide to raise the national debt ceiling for the umpteenth time, is less than shocking. The same would have been done under, Clinton, Gore or Kerry.
He signed the bill. Not Clinton, Gore or Kerry.

He could have done something to try to decrease national debt, but instead he spends it on war.

ok?
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 22:39   #10
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Clinton had a surplus, not a deficit.

http://ap.grolier.com/article?assetid=0097755-00
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stori...lus/index.html

Bush is determined to ruin his own country and everyone elses.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 22:43   #11
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Re: Go Bush Go!

What so negative about Dubaya ruining the US??

They are already celebrating across latin-america!
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 22:49   #12
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Because once USA is gone people will be free to come invade my fine beer drinking, hockey playing, Tim Hortons loving country.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 22:53   #13
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Re: Go Bush Go!

If Clinton had a surplus and not a defecit, why did they repeatedly raise the national debt ceiling during his presidency?
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 23:05   #14
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Just to confuse republicans, dda. It's a prank by those peace-loving, three-hugging smart liberals for the Ivy League Universities you know.

Btw, "Leaving Jesusland" and "You'r wrong" by NOFX is the perfect song for you dda (and for all other americans).
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 23:12   #15
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
smart liberals
This is an oxymoron.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 23:18   #16
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
This is an oxymoron.
Yes, but less than smart republicans.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 23:23   #17
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Or charming Bergonians.
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Last edited by dda; 21 Mar 2006 at 19:41.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 23:25   #18
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
If Clinton had a surplus and not a defecit, why did they repeatedly raise the national debt ceiling during his presidency?
To make you ask questions.


It worked.


Also, you wouldnt be suggesting that CNN would report propaghanda to the masses?
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 23:35   #19
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
This is an oxymoron.
Please don't buy into Ann Coulteur's specialist brand of bullshit.


I realise that in America calling someone a liberal is akin to calling their dying mother a cocksucking negro****ing ****whore - but it shouldn't be. Liberalism itself is about the freedom of the individual, no matter what bastard incarnation you have of it over in the good ol USA.





(damn you censors)
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 23:39   #20
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
This is an oxymoron.
He meant socialists.
!!!
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 23:49   #21
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
If Clinton had a surplus and not a defecit, why did they repeatedly raise the national debt ceiling during his presidency?
Didnt he do something with your social security system that helped him get a lot of money while he was president but would cost lots later on? (I don't remember what exactly that was, but I remember reading something about it)

About Bush: I would guess his little wars and the tax cuts for his rich friends did cost quite a lot of money. If you you guys would have elected someone sane into office I doubt the deficit would be that bad.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 23:53   #22
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Re: Go Bush Go!

a tax rebate to stimulate the economy
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 23:56   #23
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
a tax rebate to stimulate the economy
And free trade to developpe Africa and nullify North American buying power!
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Unread 21 Mar 2006, 01:14   #24
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Traditionally the world's empire (regardless of whoever it may happen to be at a particular time) runs their economy based on loans and debt.

This is because debt is only a bad thing if you are unstable. A global empire tends to be quite stable: ergo debt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
This is an oxymoron.
dda stop being wicked.

I consider myself a liberal.
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Unread 21 Mar 2006, 02:13   #25
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Re: Go Bush Go!

$8,960,000,000,000

^That's how much the U.S. will owe now. That's ludicrous.
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Unread 21 Mar 2006, 02:22   #26
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by IncubusGod
$8,960,000,000,000

^That's how much the U.S. will owe now. That's ludicrous.
without considering the economic context these sorts of figures are meaningless: a debt of 1$ is ludicrous if you can't afford the repayments, a debt of 10,000,000,000,000,000$ is not ludicrous provided you can make the interest repayments and whittle down the loan
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Unread 21 Mar 2006, 03:33   #27
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius
US debt limit nears $9 trillion

I bet he will be seen as the dictator who truly ****ed up that country of his.
Aye it reminds me of that megadeth song...symphony of destruction.
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Unread 21 Mar 2006, 04:57   #28
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
without considering the economic context these sorts of figures are meaningless: a debt of 1$ is ludicrous if you can't afford the repayments, a debt of 10,000,000,000,000,000$ is not ludicrous provided you can make the interest repayments and whittle down the loan
He speaks truth. In the end, if they can pay interest off... Well, you know the rest.
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Unread 21 Mar 2006, 09:38   #29
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
without considering the economic context these sorts of figures are meaningless: a debt of 1$ is ludicrous if you can't afford the repayments, a debt of 10,000,000,000,000,000$ is not ludicrous provided you can make the interest repayments and whittle down the loan
Soon they won't be able to.
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Unread 21 Mar 2006, 10:36   #30
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
a debt of 10,000,000,000,000,000$ is not ludicrous provided you can make the interest repayments and whittle down the loan
I think the problem is that they don't seem to be able to "whittle down the loan" much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
This is an oxymoron.
Not really. One of the most common mistakes is to believe that everyone who is Liberal/Republican/Greens/Rightists/insert-the-movement-you -hate-here is somehow "stupid" and if only they could be more intelligent they'd follow your (obviously correct) political orientation. Sadly, it's not that simple. Smart people sign up for all sorts of bullshit.
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Unread 21 Mar 2006, 11:36   #31
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
without considering the economic context these sorts of figures are meaningless: a debt of 1$ is ludicrous if you can't afford the repayments, a debt of 10,000,000,000,000,000$ is not ludicrous provided you can make the interest repayments and whittle down the loan
I know very little about US politics, but from a common sense point of view what president is going to spend large parts of their budget on paying off debts when they could be spending it on whatever their priorities are, be they military or social services etc?
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Unread 21 Mar 2006, 11:45   #32
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
without considering the economic context these sorts of figures are meaningless: a debt of 1$ is ludicrous if you can't afford the repayments, a debt of 10,000,000,000,000,000$ is not ludicrous provided you can make the interest repayments and whittle down the loan
Which is, of course, the big question. At what point does the US debt reach a point where it is no longer manegable, and starts to have a serious effect on the country? The US in in a unique position: due it its financial clout they can handle a debt higher than most other countries (per capita). They also have several huge advantages on the international scene, such as the fact that the standard international commodity currency is the US dollar. That fact alone gives the US economy incredible stability.

However, the crisis point, if not the breaking point, may be upon them soon. Both the departing chair of the federal reserve Greenspan and the incoming chair have stated that the US is approaching critical mass with its debts, and they need to be dealt with. The Economist has been tracking the effects of the debt, most visible in the consistent slive of the relative value of the US dollar. Thats bad, as the fact that the US dollar is standard international commodity currency, a fact that gives the dollar stability, ironically also depends on the stability of the dollar.

There has never been a real threat to this status, as there has never been an alternative. Some nations were tosing around the idea of the Yen in the mid 1980s, but that never went far. The Euro is another possibility, but it is still fairly 'new', and though its value has been rising steadily against the dollar, its long term stability is unknown. Still, it is a viable option, should the US slide continue.

Finally, there is the fact that much of this new debt is being 'bought up' by one or two countries, most notably China. That gives them an interesting bargening chip should future tensions arise...


The point is, Yahwe is correct that the numbers are meaningless without context, but IN context, the numbers are, and should be, worrying. The internal atate of the US economy is also being kept artificially high by the housing bubble, which again both fedral reserve chairs have stated is due for a nice big Pop...
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Unread 21 Mar 2006, 11:56   #33
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Purely from a psychological perspective the prospect of the national debt surpassing annual GDP is severely worrying.
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Unread 21 Mar 2006, 11:56   #34
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
If Clinton had a surplus and not a defecit, why did they repeatedly raise the national debt ceiling during his presidency?
The debt ceiling during Clinton's 8-year presidency went from $4.3 trillion to $5.9 trillion. During the first 6 years of Bush Jr, it has gone from $5.9 trillion to almost $9 trillion.
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Unread 21 Mar 2006, 19:47   #35
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Re: Go Bush Go!

I would like to apologize to all of my Norwegian friends. I have been informed that Zhukov is from Bergen and as such is not claimed by the Norwegians. A reasonable response to a distasteful situation.
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Unread 21 Mar 2006, 19:51   #36
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
Traditionally the world's empire (regardless of whoever it may happen to be at a particular time) runs their economy based on loans and debt.

This is because debt is only a bad thing if you are unstable. A global empire tends to be quite stable: ergo debt.



dda stop being wicked.

I consider myself a liberal.
Actually, I consider my self a liberal as well. However, I am still wicked.
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Unread 21 Mar 2006, 20:03   #37
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
dda stop being wicked.

I consider myself a liberal.
You thus prove dda's point.
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Unread 21 Mar 2006, 23:30   #38
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
I would like to apologize to all of my Norwegian friends. I have been informed that Zhukov is from Bergen and as such is not claimed by the Norwegians. A reasonable response to a distasteful situation.
Your as wrong again. Im not from Bergen. I just happen to live there now.
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Unread 21 Mar 2006, 23:42   #39
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Re: Go Bush Go!

I am the victim of misinformation. Damn you hyfe!
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Unread 22 Mar 2006, 00:13   #40
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Well, being from Bergen is forgivable, since no-one chooses where they're born.

On the other hand, moving there on purpose? .... just plain sick.

Thus my point still stands
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Unread 22 Mar 2006, 01:04   #41
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
If Clinton had a surplus and not a defecit, why did they repeatedly raise the national debt ceiling during his presidency?
The two are not as closely connected as you think.

Generating a budget surplus is pretty simple economics. You set yourself a budget to spend over the course of a fiscal year. Then you spend what you need to on whatever you spend a government budget on.

If you say, had a budget of £1 , and you only spent £0.95p , youve generated a 5% surplus to go into the next fiscal year. Clinton basically managed the countries finances pretty damned well. Yep, he did raise the national debt ceiling , but the reason for that is further down.

Now under Bush, hes being given that £1 to spend. But he wants to cut taxes, and to do that he needs £1.10. And he wants to fund an overseas war, and for that he needs £1.40. This is why he has had to go back to congress a number of times during his presidency to ask for extra funding.

However

The £1 was borrowed in the first place. And sometime in the future, £1.03p has to be repaid. And whilst Mr Clinton did give himself a surplus, he didnt use that surplus to try and repay what was already owed, he just kept it around in case something came up that required the US to dump a ton of cash into a problem. Writing off third world debt was probably right up there at the top of his list, but TBH , who the hell knows what he was going to spend it on. Al probably told him to keep it so Tipper could sponsor softball leagues or something.

Taking a look at most of the western world, Americas problem isnt unique. You can only sustain an economy with huge debt by having strong economic growth, and alas, within the US, most major industries are in the shitter. Dubbya's economic plans are very akin to the boom or bust approach that saw the UK go down the pan in the 80's, theres a plan in there somewhere (an overseas war that sees US companies profit means more taxes and allows, in theory, in the longer term, a more stable economic base from which to work. Alas, thats if its a short war and you stabilise the country. Right now, if he cant get Iraqis to knuckle under, hes absoloutely screwed, but i dont think he cares knowing that his presidency is coming to an end, and it wont be his problem when the country goes tits up) but alas, it just doesnt look good.
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Unread 22 Mar 2006, 01:29   #42
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hyfe
Well, being from Bergen is forgivable, since no-one chooses where they're born.

On the other hand, moving there on purpose? .... just plain sick.

Thus my point still stands
Beeing born and beeing raised in Bergen is like getting a sickness. For the rest of your life
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Unread 22 Mar 2006, 20:17   #43
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Re: Go Bush Go!

I don't think anyone would be at all worried about the financial state of the USA if they were familiar with the projected receipts* presented to us by our Dear Leader.

*the second figure. It makes sense, because as the baby boomers retire over the next 5-10 years, they are very likely to donate their fortunes to the fed in appreciation of the wonderful job done by this administration.
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Unread 22 Mar 2006, 20:43   #44
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
Actually, I consider my self a liberal as well. However, I am still wicked.

what kinda of republican are you?? a liberal, pro-gun control, anti death penalty republican? there places in america where they'd shoot you onsight, twice, in the face, with cum then bullets.

admit it you only say you're republican to get your job and develop a tough string em by the balls reputation, secretly you loath having to talk to juries consisting of inbred old maniacs who view the deceased as having deserved it and the defendant not guilty as well as a pussy for not pumping more rounds into his head!
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Unread 23 Mar 2006, 01:46   #45
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Re: Go Bush Go!

You may be right.
I may be crazy.
But it just may be a lunatic you're looking for.
It's too late to fight.
It's too late to change me.
You may be wrong for all I know
But you may be right.

Billy Joel
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Unread 23 Mar 2006, 19:32   #46
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Re: Go Bush Go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermillion
However, the crisis point, if not the breaking point, may be upon them soon. Both the departing chair of the federal reserve Greenspan and the incoming chair have stated that the US is approaching critical mass with its debts, and they need to be dealt with. The Economist has been tracking the effects of the debt, most visible in the consistent slive of the relative value of the US dollar. Thats bad, as the fact that the US dollar is standard international commodity currency, a fact that gives the dollar stability, ironically also depends on the stability of the dollar.

There has never been a real threat to this status, as there has never been an alternative. Some nations were tosing around the idea of the Yen in the mid 1980s, but that never went far. The Euro is another possibility, but it is still fairly 'new', and though its value has been rising steadily against the dollar, its long term stability is unknown. Still, it is a viable option, should the US slide continue.
I heard last week from a colleague that some big oil-boys are considering to switch to euros in 2007 (or so). If this is a rumour or based on solid facts/press releases I do not know.
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