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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 17:43   #1
General1
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Vision and Post|Mortum

Although I'm not playing anymore, what happened?
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 17:47   #2
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Oh erm gosh erm i just really dont know what could be happening.
Oh wow it must be something really serious.
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 17:58   #3
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

They are merging.

Kicked 31 members to merge.
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 19:14   #4
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

yeah but they can take those members back in after the merge
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 19:26   #5
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Well, they can't take in all the members.
Unless I counted incorrectly, Vision and Post|Mortum is down a total of 46 members since saturday. With 60 members post-merge, they'd still have 26 out in the cold.
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 19:26   #6
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo
yeah but they can take those members back in after the merge
But they won't have their score.
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 19:42   #7
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

they will have their score...just nothing will be added if they have gained score outside of tag
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 19:45   #8
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Death666
they will have their score...just nothing will be added if they have gained score outside of tag
From what I gather, they'll get the score that those planets gained while being out of tag, but won't get back their original score (which averages at 900k score per kicked planet).
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 20:23   #9
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
From what I gather, they'll get the score that those planets gained while being out of tag, but won't get back their original score (which averages at 900k score per kicked planet).
They would have kicked their lowest scoring memers, that means their top60 scorers when combined will count and the other 20 wouldnt count anyway so losing the previous score doesnt really matter.

Once again another clear abuse of the score system to gain rank by circumnavugating the score system. Its all just ridicolous and all alliance involved in such actions should be ashamed of themselves
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 20:46   #10
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

It has happened

I agree with Wakey

/me goes drink
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 20:48   #11
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Makes me wonder how well this was pulled off vision. I was sitting in your public channel last night in the wee hours, and noticed one of your guys come in wondering why he wasn't in-game and needed to talk to an HC {assumedly that was what the situation was given the information I had at the time.}

You did tell your members that something was happening right?
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 21:05   #12
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

That's the cool thing to do.

What name will they using btw? As Vision and P|M are almost exactly equal in members atm so not one is dominant as in the SiN/TGV case.
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 21:46   #13
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
But they won't have their score.
maybe not but they will have their fleets at their disposal plus any future score gains
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 21:55   #14
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by rshih
That's the cool thing to do.

What name will they using btw? As Vision and P|M are almost exactly equal in members atm so not one is dominant as in the SiN/TGV case.

PostMortum of Vision?
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 22:39   #15
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

PostVision ?

Anyway, i dont really share wakey's views on this issue; if the merger results in a more powerful alliance that will be far better placed to challenge the top 3, then i think its great for the game. From what i understand, P|M is populated by the Subh officers/members who strongly opposed the fencesitting policy of the HC, and Vision has since R8 been actively challenging whomever is powerful (anyone remember VVOMM? ) - mind you, we'd eventually loose, but we typically prolonged the fighting.

So, together i think they'll be a pretty strong force who will be more or less ready to challenge the hegemony. What I think will be most interesting to know is whether this is a permerant merge and next round they start from the outset as a single identity.

Besides wakey, with 2 alliances becoming 1, doesnt that mean that F-Crew will rise by 1 rank?
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 23:09   #16
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
PostVision ?

Anyway, i dont really share wakey's views on this issue; if the merger results in a more powerful alliance that will be far better placed to challenge the top 3, then i think its great for the game. From what i understand, P|M is populated by the Subh officers/members who strongly opposed the fencesitting policy of the HC, and Vision has since R8 been actively challenging whomever is powerful (anyone remember VVOMM? ) - mind you, we'd eventually loose, but we typically prolonged the fighting.

So, together i think they'll be a pretty strong force who will be more or less ready to challenge the hegemony. What I think will be most interesting to know is whether this is a permerant merge and next round they start from the outset as a single identity.
But what about the members that have been kicked and no longer have room to be added?

Theirs around 20 members that are now alliancless, and unless they were informed of the fact that they were going to be kicked later in the round then i doubt their too happy about it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
Besides wakey, with 2 alliances becoming 1, doesnt that mean that F-Crew will rise by 1 rank?
Not if only one of them was ahead of us
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 23:16   #17
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

:/


F-crew is one of a few alliances left in the game that still plays to win fairly....with honour.

A victory is not such unless it is earnt.

What P|M and Vsn have done can be performed by a child with a calculator....they are just adding up the numbers. There is no skill involved, therefore why sould it be rewarded with a higher position?
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 23:18   #18
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceadrath
But what about the members that have been kicked and no longer have room to be added?

Theirs around 20 members that are now alliancless, and unless they were informed of the fact that they were going to be kicked later in the round then i doubt their too happy about it
Yes and no. Alliances loose players all through the round due to personal or other reasons, or simply become inactive. Whilst i'm not saying that all of those 20 people are inactive blood sucking gits, what i am saying is that the merger has provided the opportunity for both alliances to clean house somewhat, even if it is at a score penalty, and the result is hopefully a more coherent and happy group of people who will fight on through the rest of the round. I dont really have any idea how much "dead weight" was being carried by either alliance. Having said all that, if some or any of those 20 players were actually active and then just dumped, yeah i dont imagine that they would be entirely amused. However, when they find new homes, perhaps they might contribute more there...

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Not if only one of them was ahead of us
Unfortunate .
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 23:23   #19
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furious
:/


F-crew is one of a few alliances left in the game that still plays to win fairly....with honour.

A victory is not such unless it is earnt.

What P|M and Vsn have done can be performed by a child with a calculator....they are just adding up the numbers. There is no skill involved, therefore why sould it be rewarded with a higher position?

Al goes in war and love……sounds familiar?

And

That’s why you never gone win a round my dear, because PA is now days more of a political game then a war-game….as it should be I might add.

Adjust and adapt or you gone be a relic or just pathetic…..






Sorry but reality bites the weak!
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 23:24   #20
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
I dont really have any idea how much "dead weight" was being carried by either alliance.

Would it be prudent to say that certain alliances create that "deadweight" through a lack of support for its lower ranked members?
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 23:25   #21
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furious
F-crew is one of a few alliances left in the game that still plays to win fairly....with honour.
Maybe its just me, but F-Crew members seem to whinge alot about being unfairly treated or whatever rather alot too.

Quote:
What P|M and Vsn have done can be performed by a child with a calculator....they are just adding up the numbers. There is no skill involved, therefore why sould it be rewarded with a higher position?
In the real world, politics is a reality. Merging two similar alliances who share similar goals, who have similar fun loving players as members into a joint community should be respected as 1) their intrinsic right to do so, and 2) far more likely than not to benefit the game as a whole.

I reckon.
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 23:27   #22
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoX
That’s why you never gone win a round my dear, because PA is now days more of a political game then a war-game….as it should be I might add.
ffs should we get Mr Blair in training the noobs eh?

I, and im sure many other people signed up for a war game.
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 23:30   #23
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
PostVision ?

Anyway, i dont really share wakey's views on this issue; if the merger results in a more powerful alliance that will be far better placed to challenge the top 3, then i think its great for the game. From what i understand, P|M is populated by the Subh officers/members who strongly opposed the fencesitting policy of the HC, and Vision has since R8 been actively challenging whomever is powerful (anyone remember VVOMM? ) - mind you, we'd eventually loose, but we typically prolonged the fighting.

So, together i think they'll be a pretty strong force who will be more or less ready to challenge the hegemony. What I think will be most interesting to know is whether this is a permerant merge and next round they start from the outset as a single identity.

Besides wakey, with 2 alliances becoming 1, doesnt that mean that F-Crew will rise by 1 rank?
If they are merging with the long term goal of creating a stronger alliance then I don't have any problem. Its when the mergers are done for short term rank gains and with a clear intent to cheat the score system that I have a problem with. Its a kick in the teeth to every other alliance in PA that has earnt their ranking through hard work. The score system and alliance system are there for a reason and alliances up and down the rankings are simply taking the piss by abusing the merge system to get around these systems
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 23:31   #24
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
Maybe its just me, but F-Crew members seem to whinge alot about being unfairly treated or whatever rather alot too.
Its you.

We are simply proud to fight the good fight, as opposed to using such below the belt tactics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
In the real world, politics is a reality.
Then why do we spend half our waking time playing a game to turn it into something we already have an abundance of?
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 23:35   #25
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
even if it is at a score penalty, and the result is hopefully a more coherent and happy group of people who will fight on through the rest of the round.
There is NO score penalty and that largely where the problem lies. We have whats a largely a very restrictive score system this round which in itself is actually pretty good BUT when the merge system undermines the score system and anyone who uses it gains a significant advantage over those recruiting normally
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 23:38   #26
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

there are no below the belt tactics in war, there are however those are idiots, and those who are not. and some such as jbg, who transcend that great dividing line.
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 23:44   #27
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome
there are no below the belt tactics in war, there are however those are idiots, and those who are not. and some such as jbg, who transcend that great dividing line.

Might i remind you that there has been no war thus far? :/
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 23:45   #28
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

I have a small resentment to them kicking 31 (thats what i've counted) members in order to merge. But if they are going to let them in afterwards then I really dont see the point in having a 60 members limit.

But other than that, fun for both alliances I guess.
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 23:46   #29
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furious
ffs should we get Mr Blair in training the noobs eh?

I, and im sure many other people signed up for a war game.



Fs, stop the excuses with “We are a training alliance” bla bla….
There are enough of those alliances around today so why not step down from your high horses and join in the universe and show the rest of us how to “really” play this game…..right?

Come-on give us some taste how PA really should be played!
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 23:48   #30
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
Maybe its just me, but F-Crew members seem to whinge alot about being unfairly treated or whatever rather alot too.
I'd have thought most players would have objections to their fellow pa players being unfairly treated and discarded like that.

Maybe we're just the ones that feel the need to point it out?
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 23:49   #31
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoX
Fs, stop the excuses with “We are a training alliance” bla bla….
There are enough of those alliances around today so why not step down from your high horses and join in the universe and show the rest of us how to “really” play this game…..right?

Come-on give us some taste how PA really should be played!


Lol...i see you notice my tag and you come with a pre-scripted response.

I think its obvious how to "really" play this game.

Lie. Cheat. Steal.

(excluding ziks )
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 23:51   #32
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Well if they are indeed that active then its their loss and they should have no trouble finding another ally. My VsN galm8 found a new ally already.
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 23:55   #33
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furious
Might i remind you that there has been no war thus far? :/
you said you signed upto a war game, that would imply the whole situation is a war
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 23:58   #34
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
If they are merging with the long term goal of creating a stronger alliance then I don't have any problem.
According to This Interview with Androx, Vision HC, it seems that the intention is that it is a permanent merge.

Further, he did imply that P|M was joining Vision and in future the name will be Vision.

Quote:
Its when the mergers are done for short term rank gains and with a clear intent to cheat the score system that I have a problem with.
That's quite true, and in principle i agree with you. However generally such mergers would happen far later in the round, wouldnt they? I'm far too much of a novice to know exactly ofc, and i cant remember exactly the example with Reunion, however, wasnt that fairly late in the round (like 2/3?)
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Unread 6 Nov 2006, 23:58   #35
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furious

I, and im sure many other people signed up for a war game.
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Unread 7 Nov 2006, 00:10   #36
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furious
:/


F-crew is one of a few alliances left in the game that still plays to win fairly....with honour.

A victory is not such unless it is earnt.

What P|M and Vsn have done can be performed by a child with a calculator....they are just adding up the numbers. There is no skill involved, therefore why sould it be rewarded with a higher position?
VsN/P|M deserve to merge their hardcore players who have been constantly let down by lame idlers who do not defend. with 60 good players they will earn a t5 rank if they are there at the end. Afterall, wouldn't the consensus be that Exi would overtake them by the end to claim t5 (by far)?
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Unread 7 Nov 2006, 00:11   #37
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

well in fairness to f-crew 1 more merge and they are out of the top ten
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Unread 7 Nov 2006, 00:19   #38
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo
well in fairness to f-crew 1 more merge and they are out of the top ten
Wouldnt that be fun? Erm Erm, I mean sad! Sad I tell ya!
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Unread 7 Nov 2006, 00:24   #39
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo
well in fairness to f-crew 1 more merge and they are out of the top ten
I'm sure we could hang on in there!
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Unread 7 Nov 2006, 00:31   #40
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by GJN
Afterall, wouldn't the consensus be that Exi would overtake them by the end to claim t5 (by far)?
Wouldnt it be more satisfying to beat eXi down? Y'kno with ships and stuff...
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Unread 7 Nov 2006, 00:51   #41
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Wouldn't it be more meaningful if you acted with your ships instead of talking on a forum and telling others to do it so you can watch and be entertained?
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Unread 7 Nov 2006, 00:53   #42
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furious
Wouldnt it be more satisfying to beat eXi down? Y'kno with ships and stuff...
Would it not be more satisfying for F-Crew to realise their potential (yes you do have some, if only you had the ambition), rather than bitching about two small hardcore bases merging?
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Unread 7 Nov 2006, 01:02   #43
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by GJN
Would it not be more satisfying for F-Crew to realise their potential (yes you do have some, if only you had the ambition), rather than bitching about two small hardcore bases merging?
I wouldn't call it bitching, merely expressing concern for the players that had been cast away in the merger.
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Unread 7 Nov 2006, 01:03   #44
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

If F-Crew are to war then it would be F-Crew.

Not F-Crew and every man and his dog, whilst crapping on any and all new players along the way.

By dumping the players in this way these two alliances are effectively saying "we dont want you in the game as you arent good enough for us"

That is my interpretation of the events, be it the right or wrong interpretation it communicates a very bad message.
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Unread 7 Nov 2006, 01:05   #45
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Wait F-Crew take themselves seriously? I always thought they were one of those mess-around alliances that didn't take the game seriously at all.

Oh man.

That's....... interesting
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Unread 7 Nov 2006, 01:09   #46
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceadrath
I wouldn't call it bitching, merely expressing concern for the players that had been cast away in the merger.
Oooooh right. You mean the ones who have done jack all? So VsN and P|M were supposed to keep idlers who dont contribute anything? Nice one

So what's F-Crew's policy towards idlers and people who do not defend their alliance mates then?
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Unread 7 Nov 2006, 01:09   #47
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceadrath
I wouldn't call it bitching, merely expressing concern for the players that had been cast away in the merger.
Indeed, from what i've heard it sounds like there was some pretty poor HC/Member communication prior to or during the merger.

That's a bad thing, and doesnt really bode all that well .
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Unread 7 Nov 2006, 01:13   #48
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by GJN
So what's F-Crew's policy towards idlers and people who do not defend their alliance mates then?
Me and cead post porn links in the private channels all nite....it generally keeps the idlers alive, so we dont really have that problem tbh.

As for defence....well i spose we would need to get attacked first eh?
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Unread 7 Nov 2006, 01:17   #49
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Wait F-Crew take themselves seriously? I always thought they were one of those mess-around alliances that didn't take the game seriously at all.

Oh man.

That's....... interesting
I think we take the task of teaching new players very seriously, even if tradionally we havn't got involved in wars and such like, mainly for the reason that wars tend to have a very negative impact on new and inexperienced players.

This though does not mean that theirs not a core of experienced players who run the show, and put in the dedicaton and time required to teach the game to the less experienced, which can be very time intensive and frustrating at times. But their willing to do so, so that others can get the same enjoyment out of the game.
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Unread 7 Nov 2006, 01:20   #50
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Re: Vision and Post|Mortum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
PostVision ?

Anyway, i dont really share wakey's views on this issue; if the merger results in a more powerful alliance that will be far better placed to challenge the top 3, then i think its great for the game. From what i understand, P|M is populated by the Subh officers/members who strongly opposed the fencesitting policy of the HC, and Vision has since R8 been actively challenging whomever is powerful (anyone remember VVOMM? ) - mind you, we'd eventually loose, but we typically prolonged the fighting.

So, together i think they'll be a pretty strong force who will be more or less ready to challenge the hegemony. What I think will be most interesting to know is whether this is a permerant merge and next round they start from the outset as a single identity.

Besides wakey, with 2 alliances becoming 1, doesnt that mean that F-Crew will rise by 1 rank?
Although i agree with some points of your post (concerning the increasing strength of VsN as a whole), as former HC and command member of the old VsN i have to say that i personally do not believe the action taken is an action that would have even been considered by the old (r13 and before) VsN. As much as we did fight when needed, we were a community alliance, a group of friends who stood by eachother no matter what. And although i don't know the exact details of the merge and the exact memberbase of the current Vision, i personally am ashamed that this VsN is using the old name combined with a action as this which (imo) is exactly the opposite of what VsN once stood for (i believe honour and team spirit had something to do with that aswell). In the old VsN strength was something we were working on to achieve, but not at the cost of our group.
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