Dear alliances, get a clue

[Methedrine]

Yes, yes ... it is once again the time that I feel like commenting on those boards.

First of all I'd like to thank everyone for the first half of the round. It was very interesting to watch the development during that time and the round appeared to be fairly open.

Congratulations go to the eXilition block for beating a not-so-properly/largely-blocked opposition and a "well, you were unable/unwilled to put up a counter block thus you aint got a lot of reason to complain" goes to the rest.

However.

That sentence also lays down the main problem I see: The game returns to what almost killed it once... block wars. While the initial return of old players was definately a good thing, the bad thing is that it also attracts the same cowardish kind of thinking that dominated several rounds of the pre-pax era (and even the first two rounds of the pax era).

Will we see alliances get back to sane thinking and having balls enough to compete on their own in round 16 - or will we see a PA Team which forces alliances to compete on their own for largest parts?

[pig]

The mentality in the majority of the community is solo play. There is a small proportion of the community though who disagree and like to win any means possible. Until this group of fine people wise up and show how great they are on there own, then blocks, naps, alliances and everything under the sun will occur.

[Alki]

Id call it more unwillingness to put up a counter block, due to the fact said so alliances didnt want to take that path once again.

[KweKweK]

Noone has clean hands this round, claiming otherwise is just plain nonsense. Stating any form of excuse "They started...." Is plain stupid. This has been one of the most exciting and close rounds in a while and I think alot of people will agree with me. In the end the alliance leading the rankings cant do anything good and will always be flamed and accused of doing things that are not accepted by the share of the community that stood on the other side of the arena. But then again complaining has always been more easy then reaching/keeping no. 1 spot

[Forest]

KwekKwek i disagree, there have been winners of rounds that ahve come out with thier hands clean. Anyhow, this thread is not about that, so we wont go there.

On the original topic, I couldn't agree more.
As stated in other threads, some alliances are willing to do what it takes to win regardless.

A couple fo days ago I approached several alliances, with the sole aim of making a super block just to kill certain alliances who do block big to win. I got told in no uncertain terms to fk off, as it would ruin the game.

It does however mean that certain alliances will always start the round with a big advantage.

And to pig, yes I think it will come down to alliances being even more hard-coded. I dont believe it should be, it should be the community that makes the rules, but unfortunetly, I think it is needed, as certain players decide to play outside the rules of the community.

[lokken]

Well I entirely agree with the first post.

The political alliances need to get a better military and learn that it takes effort and graft to win planetarion, and the military alliances need to get a lot more political to stop grudges and pride getting in the way of victory.

I can't be more specific until the round ends.

[KweKweK]

Forest, probably yes. Alot of people mention r11 as a lone victory for 1up and congrats to them for that. What keeps bothering me is that people keep shuffeling shit into eXi shoes like the way this thread started again. If it was ND winning this round this thread would be about fence sitting etc which imo is just as valid as this. So yes, I still think it I got a point here.

As for the discussion goes I think we have seen a verry open round and to start worrying about blocking like we saw pre-pax is a little bit blown out of proportion in my opinion.

[Banned]

Originally Posted by KweKweK

Forest, probably yes. Alot of people mention r11 as a lone victory for 1up and congrats to them for that. What keeps bothering me is that people keep shuffeling shit into eXi shoes like the way this thread started again. If it was ND winning this round this thread would be about fence sitting etc which imo is just as valid as this. So yes, I still think it I got a point here.

As for the discussion goes I think we have seen a verry open round and to start worrying about blocking like we saw pre-pax is a little bit blown out of proportion in my opinion.

I could have said it better, but I'm lazy. Though I disagree about ND and fencing. They've fought 3 of the 4 other top 5 alliances this round. If that's a fence, what isn't one?

[Forest]

However you choose to look at it, exi mass-blocked, and smaller counter blocks weren't up to the job.

We arent IMO discussing anything bad about exi in this thread (hence i didnt name them), simply discussing if the tactic should be valid, and whether it will be hard-coded to remove the choice.

It was you who brought the exi name into it, so if u dont mind, we could refrain from using exi as an example, as well as any other alliance, and just talk about the tactic.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Banned

I could have said it better, but I'm lazy. Though I disagree about ND and fencing. They've fought 3 of the 4 other top 5 alliances this round. If that's a fence, what isn't one?

mmm Jester, Mind you ND stayed neutral for 80% of the round and if nobody would have attacked them (cause they kept growing while others were fighting) then they'd have not fought a single war at all (or so most likely).

Fence sitting or staying neutral ... point is they've taken advantage of the political situation and based their round on that.

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

mmm Jester, Mind you ND stayed neutral for 80% of the round and if nobody would have attacked them (cause they kept growing while others were fighting) then they'd have not fought a single war at all (or so most likely).

I'm sorry, 80% of the round?
Mr. Sandman disagrees.

Who was the first aggressor between ND and Angels? What about ND and EXilition? The only case of the three in which ND has not drawn first blood is with LCH.

Fence sitting or staying neutral ... point is they've taken advantage of the political situation and based their round on that.

The latter is true, but it doesn't imply the former.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Banned

I'm sorry, 80% of the round?
Mr. Sandman disagrees.

Who was the first aggressor between ND and Angels? What about ND and EXilition? The only case of the three in which ND has not drawn first blood is with LCH.

Not really, their attacks on Angels wasn't to declare war, it was to take advantage of our 'out of defence' situation, which was created by Exi and flak. They just went for the easy roids. The Angels vs Exi wasn't about easy roids, it was about being #1.

ND just jumped on a war, chose a side and knew they'd get away with it for a while and gain easy roids/XP. I'm sorry but that's not fighting a war imo.

[KweKweK]

If ND wins the round the way they played it the completly deserved it. I'm saying its the same bunch of people who keep over reacting and screaming "unfair, they did this and that, unfair" which imo are valid tactics. Since this discussion started in r15 its verry reasonable for me to assume you're basing it on r15. I really think this is pulled out of proportion. Once again this has been one of the most exciting rounds in a long while. And hardcoding any stuff to prevent having a round like this again would be really bad for PA.

And as for Forest may I remind you how this thread started and that it wasnt me mentioning blocking and eXi in 1 sentence.

Originally Posted by Methedrine

Congratulations go to the eXilition block for beating a not-so-properly/largely-blocked opposition and a "well, you were unable/unwilled to put up a counter block thus you aint got a lot of reason to complain" goes to the rest.

[Forest]

Yes kwekkwek, he did. He congratulated them.

The discussion isn't about the individual alliances though, but the question 'will blocks go back to how they once were'.

Yet again though, the thread has managed to be derailed, and ni this case, it is you making it 'everyone is anti-exi' that has managed to do so effectively.

[KweKweK]

That was just one part of the thread about eX. I'll leave it alone since you have proven to be not to be a great fan of eX anyway Like I said in my last post, I think people are really overreacting, because this was one of the most intence and fun rounds in a looooooong while imo and doing any hardcoding to prevent having a round like this is bad for the game. Lets just wait a bit with all the hardcoding etc a couple of more rounds and see if some real bad ass blocking will happen like we were used to see pre pax

[Forest]

Exactly, I am not a fan of exi, and yet I am still saying you shouldnt be mentioning them

Hard-coding im afraid hs to be looked at, because it is now clear through last 5 rounds, that certain alliances will only play and block, and we have seen that other alliances will ahve to act accordingly.

Surely it is better to be pro-active, rather than reactive.

[Mystical]

blocks cant go back as they were, different alliances cant defend eachother effectively (thnx to the eta -1 rule) and the sizes on alliances also helps in that. Also this round their were not really stable blocks, due to politics and circumstances things have been changed here and there. Were people had shared enemies, its logical and valid they try to bring them down shared, and so it happened between all alliances and in all ways. Thats the game fokes, u can live with it or quit with it There were not so much alliances with lot of stable partners over the whole round. Partners came... and partners went... sometimes partners remained friendly... sometimes partner became biggest enemies... or sometimes enemies became biggest partner. Thats the story of round 15 and the story of planetarion

;-)

[Rikard]

Originally Posted by pig

The mentality in the majority of the community is solo play. There is a small proportion of the community though who disagree and like to win any means possible. Until this group of fine people wise up and show how great they are on there own, then blocks, naps, alliances and everything under the sun will occur.

a small proportion of the community kills the game by overblocking.

have you even thought your post through?

[Buddah]

Originally Posted by Forest

Exactly, I am not a fan of exi, and yet I am still saying you shouldnt be mentioning them

Hard-coding im afraid hs to be looked at, because it is now clear through last 5 rounds, that certain alliances will only play and block, and we have seen that other alliances will ahve to act accordingly.

Surely it is better to be pro-active, rather than reactive.

make that most alliances, not certain alliances, and you know that as good as me

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

Not really, their attacks on Angels wasn't to declare war, it was to take advantage of our 'out of defence' situation, which was created by Exi and flak. They just went for the easy roids. The Angels vs Exi wasn't about easy roids, it was about being #1.

Getting easy roids isn't about being #1?

ND just jumped on a war, chose a side and knew they'd get away with it for a while and gain easy roids/XP. I'm sorry but that's not fighting a war imo.

If they chose a side in a war, then they were per definition not on the fence.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Methedrine

That sentence also lays down the main problem I see: The game returns to what almost killed it once... block wars. While the initial return of old players was definately a good thing, the bad thing is that it also attracts the same cowardish kind of thinking that dominated several rounds of the pre-pax era (and even the first two rounds of the pax era).

Will we see alliances get back to sane thinking and having balls enough to compete on their own in round 16 - or will we see a PA Team which forces alliances to compete on their own for largest parts?

Was it not a fun round? Was it not exciting? Did the number one alliance position not change hands a number of times? Were the tactics not well planned out? Did people not have to work hard for their victory? What was bad about this round?

[HK]

oh my god, how on earth are equal blocks bad? teamplays are always more interesting than ffas :)
(i'm not even gonna comment about who made the first block after eX hit them and why did eX need to find help when getting incs from 1up/nd/angels as you would just counterwhine. grats 1up, if u can't win it ingame, u'll whine on ad, just like r13)

(and let me add, imo this round had no blocks at all, just mutual enemies)

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Banned

Getting easy roids isn't about being #1?

If they chose a side in a war, then they were per definition not on the fence.

If you chose a side in a war when the war is already going on for half the round and if the only intention on doing so is to jump the bandwagon and take advantage of the efforts other alliances are putting ...

Getting easy roids is not the same as 'fighting a war to win'. The #1 & 2 alliance started a war. This makes sence. ND took advantage of this by hitting nobody and everybody, being able to overtake both alliances, maintain a big enough lead and then jump on a side in a war that's been going on for half a round already.

Nway, it's nothing illegal but at the moment whoever wins this round ... If it's Exi, then it yet again proves with flak it's best methode to win. If it's ND, then it proves it's safer not to fight wars, hope others do and take advantage of that.

Both are valid strategies (aka not cheating) yet both I personally do not prefer to follow. I like to believe that the only thing you can count on is yourself, your own performance, your own strength. Regardless of the political situation and certainly not counting on what other alliances would do.

Then again, that's just my opinion ...

[MaxMilliaN]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Was it not a fun round? Was it not exciting? Did the number one alliance position not change hands a number of times? Were the tactics not well planned out? Did people not have to work hard for their victory? What was bad about this round?

yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes.

what was bad? 1up once lost horribly and they are trying to make everyone feel as bad as they.

[KweKweK]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Was it not a fun round? Was it not exciting? Did the number one alliance position not change hands a number of times? Were the tactics not well planned out? Did people not have to work hard for their victory? What was bad about this round?

Exactly my point.

Forest again you keep insinuating that its eXi blocking, yet again you're gonna say that I brought eXi up again but then again keep in mind that there arent many if none alliances around you speak rather a bit harsh about.

[Forest]

I think the problem lies not in this round, but in the following rounds.

We now have a situation in which alliances HAVE to block to be able to have a chance of competing.

[Forest]

Originally Posted by KweKweK

Exactly my point.

Forest again you keep insinuating that its eXi blocking, yet again you're gonna say that I brought eXi up again but then again keep in mind that there arent many if none alliances around you speak rather a bit harsh about.

I have a strong opinion on just about every alliance, and I am not sacerd to say it. In this instance though we are not talking about the allinces, but the situation.

[Forest]

Originally Posted by Forest

I think the problem lies not in this round, but in the following rounds.

We now have a situation in which alliances HAVE to block to be able to have a chance of competing.

Just to add to that, coming into R11/12/13/14/15, all alliances had a CHOICE on how they would maneuvere politically.
I personally believe that this CHOICE is now removed.

And that single 'fact/opinion' is why I believe it has been bad for PA in general.

[HK]

Originally Posted by MaxMilliaN

1up once lost horribly and they are trying to make everyone feel as bad as they.

To be honest it was rather humiliating for 1up to end up lower than the alliance they won (LCH) in r14. Might that show that you're actually a weaker alliance than LCH and that your round14 victory was just because better alliances didn't take part? In r13 you blamed us of cheating after we won you, in this round you blame us of blocking, yet I laugh at that as I know the real facts. I think that so do you but you're in denial :P Just accept it, you're a shittier alliance than eX, Angels, ND and LCH!

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Forest

Just to add to that, coming into R11/12/13/14/15, all alliances had a CHOICE on how they would maneuvere politically.
I personally believe that this CHOICE is now removed.

And that single 'fact/opinion' is why I believe it has been bad for PA in general.

Yeah everyone who wasn't 1up had the choice of losing (this would be in r11) unless they allied someone. What a fantastic choice. A game in which the most active and militarily capable alliance won every round would be horribly dull. It's a political game. When did everyone forget this?

[KweKweK]

I still fail to see what huge block has been formed during r15 and how long this lasted

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by RedCrab

oh my god, how on earth are equal blocks bad? teamplays are always more interesting than ffas

Agreed but equal blocks would have to be made first and that certainly wasn't the case in round 13 nor this round.

Originally Posted by RedCrab

(i'm not even gonna comment about who made the first block after eX hit them and why did eX need to find help when getting incs from 1up/nd/angels as you would just counterwhine.

eX, pre ticks with SubH.

Originally Posted by RedCrab

grats 1up, if u can't win it ingame, u'll whine on ad, just like r13)

(and let me add, imo this round had no blocks at all, just mutual enemies)

So according to eX any opinion criticising them or commenting on thier game play is whining. As long as we gets the rules clear thats all ok.

1up were beaten again. You won't see me moaning about that but you will see me commenting on things I have an opinion on if thats ok?

[Buddah]

Since when is a nap a block?

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by RedCrab

To be honest it was rather humiliating for 1up to end up lower than the alliance they won (LCH) in r14. Might that show that you're actually a weaker alliance than LCH and that your round14 victory was just because better alliances didn't take part? In r13 you blamed us of cheating after we won you, in this round you blame us of blocking, yet I laugh at that as I know the real facts. I think that so do you but you're in denial :P Just accept it, you're a shittier alliance than eX, Angels, ND and LCH!

And thats the kind of cretin response that mean non of the decent eX posters ever get heard properly you arrogant, arrogant nobody.

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by Buddah

Since when is a nap a block?

It isn't but pre tick political deals are always a precursor to blocks. If you're lacking that much confidence before the game has even started it's a fair guess that as soon as the round styarts a full block will form.

[Forest]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Yeah everyone who wasn't 1up had the choice of losing (this would be in r11) unless they allied someone. What a fantastic choice. A game in which the most active and militarily capable alliance won every round would be horribly dull. It's a political game. When did everyone forget this?

Its not allies, and naps that is the problem, its set blocks on the scale of FPM, that are gonna be coming back if we arent careful.

Maybe its not us forgetting that this thread is borne through, but remembering previous rounds, and how they came about.

[HK]

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

Agreed but equal blocks would have to be made first and that certainly wasn't the case in round 13 nor this round

You're block was bigger and weaker, heh, we just had 3 alliance you had tons!

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

eX, pre ticks with SubH.

We had a nap with Subh afaik, just like the one they offered to 1up. There was no coord sharing even. Some people might see having a nap with their enemy a hostile attempt and deny the nap even if that alliance asks them. Subh did try to remain neutral, yet you were the ones who denied it, it's hardly our fault

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

You won't see me moaning about that but you will see me commenting on things I have an opinion on if thats ok?

Err, okay, heh, just make sure you aren't too bitter in your comments

[Heartless]

Off Topic: Doktor M. gets flamed from exilition for congratulating them and their allies? Strange World

On Topic: Personally I think PA Team will limit the interactions alliances can have with each other, simply to make the game more enjoyable for everyone - not just for the 10% of the playerbase which try to exploit every little piece of freedom offered, just to win this game by any means. A sad but necessary evil, I think. And yes this round has been interesting for most of the time (not just the first half of it, as the Doktor claims), but it merely was because people which got hammered by eXilition and friends didnt easily give up as it was definately not so interesting because it was something like a fair fight (oh and don't start flame-whining about this comment, it's just a comment not an insult).

[cypher]

Originally Posted by Rikard

a small proportion of the community kills the game by overblocking.

have you even thought your post through?

have you ever thought about the fact you only need like 4/5 people throughout PA in HC places who can get their alliance to block (and their members will have no choice but to follow)

if sid says 1up is blocking... members aint got a choice
if kaifux says exi is blocking... members aint got a choice
the list goes on but i guess you get the point.

i agree to the original post (fk knows who he is and if he's even 1up so i wonder how this again turned into 1up saying so but heh)
as almost everyone agreed r11 with no blocks was by far more interesting then other rounds as it was indeed possible to work as 1 alliance and show your own skill instead of riding on the skill of others.

[pig]

Originally Posted by Rikard

a small proportion of the community kills the game by overblocking.

have you even thought your post through?

Yes I have. If one alliance starts blocking and gathers say 3-4 support alliances to join its block, then my statement still stands. Because of the mentality of the first alliance starting a block, a block has occured.

If such an alliance doesnt approach others or forms a block then no block will be created, rather at the top at least I believe it would be block free. Yes there may be fluid politics between the top allies, ie coordinated attacks on #1 one night etc, like we have seen in previous rounds.

Not only that but theres what 2500 people playing. Say 300 of them are in a block, that is in my eyes a small proportion of the community. There may only be 80 decent players and 220 shit players but its still a block.*

*Im just talking hypothetically, no where have I specifically talked about a certain alliance.

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by RedCrab

You're block was bigger and weaker, heh, we just had 3 alliance you had tons!

eX, LCH, ToT and naps with Angels and NoS

1up, ToF, ND, NoS (who were napped with eX)

Yes, much bigger.

Originally Posted by RedCrab

We had a nap with Subh afaik, just like the one they offered to 1up. There was no coord sharing even.

Then how did you know who not to hit?

[KweKweK]

eXi didnt have deals with subh pre ticks. Maybe talks were in going but no deals were made what so ever pre tick. Only when ticks started was some sort of agreement reached. Imo opinion not so verry different from what 1up had in r14 with reunion.

I'm all for critisism, but imo you are over reacting and that is what I'm trying to clear. Offcourse we made political choises that seem debateble by others but then again that happens to everyone who is at no1 spot at any given time during a round. I remember ND beeing critisised for not joining into a war on request.

Still any hard code seem to be extremly out of place atm, tho if things get worse and rounds are decided the 1st week orso then this might well be a fair idea

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Forest

Its not allies, and naps that is the problem, its set blocks on the scale of FPM, that are gonna be coming back if we arent careful.

Maybe its not us forgetting that this thread is borne through, but remembering previous rounds, and how they came about.

This block was certainly not on the scale of FPM. Your main worry seems to be that alliances will react in a spectacularly shit fashion and create a mega-super-hyper-ultra-block. Maybe your posts should warn of the dangers of this? "Over-blocking" is not a necessary consequence of "blocking".

[KweKweK]

Originally Posted by Heartless

Off Topic: Doktor M. gets flamed from exilition for congratulating them and their allies? Strange World

On Topic: Personally I think PA Team will limit the interactions alliances can have with each other, simply to make the game more enjoyable for everyone - not just for the 10% of the playerbase which try to exploit every little piece of freedom offered, just to win this game by any means. A sad but necessary evil, I think. And yes this round has been interesting for most of the time (not just the first half of it, as the Doktor claims), but it merely was because people which got hammered by eXilition and friends didnt easily give up as it was definately not so interesting because it was something like a fair fight (oh and don't start flame-whining about this comment, it's just a comment not an insult).

How can you say this havent been a fair fight. It is gonna be a photo finish that surely says something tho. Every alliance in the top 5 with exception of LCH which I dont know anything about had heavy incs by now. One all round the other the last couple of weeks. Still was a really fun, close, intense and exhiting round imo

[Forest]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

This block was certainly not on the scale of FPM. Your main worry seems to be that alliances will react in a spectacularly shit fashion and create a mega-super-hyper-ultra-block. Maybe your posts should warn of the dangers of this? "Over-blocking" is not a necessary consequence of "blocking".

Thats it exactly.
I have found this round quite entertaining, nm what others think, but it doesn't stop the fact that we all know what COULD happen next.

And if it does, the game will once again, fall flat on its face.

My main problem, is I don't see how this can be avoided. Whilst in the main, alliances don't want to block, they do know that its a distinct possibilty that they will have to. That means they keep options open, and as mazzelaar stated a couple of posts up, its very likely to happen if people go into a round in that frame of mind.


*offtopic* is there a reason I keep getting negrepped. I mean, what the fk is in this post that deserves one. Can we just get rid of the rep system JBG, or at elast make it so peoples nicks are signed automatically.

[Felagund]

redcrab looks like u dont know nothing about politics :/. i have think allways exi is a biggest war machine and the best attacking alliance without doubt , if u really think u only had subh as flak u had not being playing this round

[HK]

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

Then how did you know who not to hit?

Isn't it obvious, we started to hit 1up

[The_Fish]

In relation to the ND part of this thread.

We did not fencesit. We just didn't join wars when OTHER people wanted us to. We joined wars or started wars when we thought it was beneficial to us. We didn't join a side for easy roids, we joined it because it was beneficial to us. Too many people expected NewDawn to join a war because it benefitted them and not us.

[Heartless]

Originally Posted by KweKweK

How can you say this havent been a fair fight. It is gonna be a photo finish that surely says something tho. Every alliance in the top 5 with exception of LCH which I dont know anything about had heavy incs by now. One all round the other the last couple of weeks. Still was a really fun, close, intense and exhiting round imo

Maybe you would like to take a look at why it was a photo-finish. It certainly was not (and it won't be a foto finish, eXilition will have quite a huge lead at end of ticks) because "the blocks" were even. It more likely was because ND tried to stay out of everything and Angels/1up didn't simply turn over but kept on picking on eXilition so they would be unable to grow too fast. Maybe Angels/1up should have simply stopped hitting eXilition and go for the easy roids allowing eXilition to get their easy ride and thus showing eXi's lapdogs what an utterly shite move it was of them. </drivel>

[BaSSe]

Originally Posted by Forest

I think the problem lies not in this round, but in the following rounds.

We now have a situation in which alliances HAVE to block to be able to have a chance of competing.

I`m not into r14 politics so I may be wrong in this. But wasn`t it a rather clean start that round aswell? Which later lead to some naps etc in efforts to stay on top/take away the #1 alliance from its place?

Politics change as new opponents come and the old ones get bashed. Professionals know that hate/grudges is not the way to to utilitarise your sucsess. In this round you`ve so far had loads of wars and alliances changing sides. (1up-eX, angels-nd, eX-ND, for example, none of these wars were 100% alliance X vs alliance Y. Some were attack cooperating, some NAP`ed and some just stayed off each others backs.

All in all the situation in the universe is a round where most top alliances had a fair shot at #1 position at some point of the round, and also the top 100 planets are spread to alliances.