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22 Feb 2010, 11:32
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#1
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InSomniac
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Durham, England
Posts: 1,473
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looking to the future
as this forum is quite dull at the moment i figured i would open the floor to discussion.
what went wrong this round?
why do we think it went wrong?
how can the game be improved to prevent such a dull (this is my opinion, i imagine a few others may not think it, but I feel this is the general consensus of the playerbase) round occuring again?
please avoid flaming and turning this into a slagging match. I'm looking for constructive thoughts and ideas about how the round progressed and what could be done differently. At the end of the day, in my opinion rounds like this with such dominance do the game more harm than good.
thanks guys
__________________
Runner up in the InSomnia 'Drunkest HC' competition - Currently on the wagon
Elysium | HR | eXilition | OuZo | ND | InSomnia | DLR
db battlegroup founder and spiritual leader
Sexytime HC of Belgians (#s3xytime)
Not so retired anymore....
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22 Feb 2010, 12:55
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#2
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You've Seen The Light
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,152
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Re: looking to the future
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mek
as this forum is quite dull at the moment i figured i would open the floor to discussion.
what went wrong this round?
why do we think it went wrong?
how can the game be improved to prevent such a dull (this is my opinion, i imagine a few others may not think it, but I feel this is the general consensus of the playerbase) round occuring again?
please avoid flaming and turning this into a slagging match. I'm looking for constructive thoughts and ideas about how the round progressed and what could be done differently. At the end of the day, in my opinion rounds like this with such dominance do the game more harm than good.
thanks guys
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nothing went wrong this round? the only thing you'd consider going wrong, is Apprime winning by so much but thats nothing to do with the game or anything that changed. Thats simply almost all the top players joining one alliance instead of fighting each other.
So if anything, the top players ruined this round.
__________________
First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.
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22 Feb 2010, 13:09
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#3
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Paso Leaute
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
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Re: looking to the future
I agree, this is surely all rather familiar, thinking of r28/9 particularly, and I agree with Light its all about the players.
Nothing can be done to force the best players to spread themselves around more, very small tag limits perhaps, but that would annoy more than just the elite, and result in multi tag allies.
I hope CarDi has already done enough to prevent a repetition by generally pissing everyone off.
__________________
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
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22 Feb 2010, 13:19
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#4
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InSomniac
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Durham, England
Posts: 1,473
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Re: looking to the future
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light
nothing went wrong this round? the only thing you'd consider going wrong, is Apprime winning by so much but thats nothing to do with the game or anything that changed. Thats simply almost all the top players joining one alliance instead of fighting each other.
So if anything, the top players ruined this round.
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sorry I didn't make it clear enough. when I said what is wrong with the game, I was including the attitudes and the community as well as the game mechanics
__________________
Runner up in the InSomnia 'Drunkest HC' competition - Currently on the wagon
Elysium | HR | eXilition | OuZo | ND | InSomnia | DLR
db battlegroup founder and spiritual leader
Sexytime HC of Belgians (#s3xytime)
Not so retired anymore....
Last edited by Mek; 22 Feb 2010 at 13:31.
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22 Feb 2010, 14:28
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#5
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: looking to the future
Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo
limits perhaps, but that would annoy more than just the elite, and result in multi tag allies.
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Small tags don't help lower tier alliances, they punish them. Low limit -> rare spots -> high recruitment requirements -> stranded newbies.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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22 Feb 2010, 14:43
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#6
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Paso Leaute
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
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Re: looking to the future
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Small tags don't help lower tier alliances, they punish them. Low limit -> rare spots -> high recruitment requirements -> stranded newbies.
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which is what I alluded to in that it annoys everyone, the issue isnt helping lower teir allies anyway its hamstringing giants.
Im not in favour of tag limits, i deliberately brought them up so they could be dismissed early as they are the only way that the game mechanics have for handling this issue.
I dont think this round means changes are needed; rounds of total domination periodically occur and the alliance system shifts to counter it, not always successfully but it will. Take the change from r29 to r30, ok asc won both but r29 was a total domination round as this one and in r30 Omen appeared to challange Asc, they lost but it was one of the best rounds for sustained war. There is no current indication of a counterweight alliance appearing but with a longer than usual intermission before next round there is plenty of time.
__________________
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
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22 Feb 2010, 15:44
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#7
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Miles Teg
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Dom City
Posts: 5,192
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Re: looking to the future
Apperently Apprime are not playing next round.
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Audentes Fortuna Iuvat
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22 Feb 2010, 15:56
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#8
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You've Seen The Light
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,152
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Re: looking to the future
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Theamion
Apperently Apprime are not playing next round.
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but at a guess, Asc is playing next round.. and is now opening recruitment for any Apprime player!
__________________
First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.
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22 Feb 2010, 16:31
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#9
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Paso Leaute
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
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Re: looking to the future
Quote:
Originally Posted by Light
but at a guess, Asc is playing next round.. and is now opening recruitment for any Apprime player!
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a lot of vetoing would occur
we have spent most of this round hating!
[edit] who said asc is playing, im not sure that is anything like decided yet.
__________________
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
Last edited by [B5]Londo; 22 Feb 2010 at 16:42.
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22 Feb 2010, 16:51
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#10
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Miles Teg
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Dom City
Posts: 5,192
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Re: looking to the future
we might, just might recruit isildurx. heard he was a pretty funny chap.
__________________
Audentes Fortuna Iuvat
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22 Feb 2010, 16:57
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#11
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Paso Leaute
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
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Re: looking to the future
Clearly recruiting back those that were ours originally is a different thing.
How far we cast that net depends on what our goals are, and no-one knows that atm, even if we have goals at all... I dont think anyone would see any point in absorbing app just to pwn the uni again, Asc has been there and done that.
__________________
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
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22 Feb 2010, 17:30
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#12
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InSomniac
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Durham, England
Posts: 1,473
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Re: looking to the future
Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo
Clearly recruiting back those that were ours originally is a different thing.
How far we cast that net depends on what our goals are, and no-one knows that atm, even if we have goals at all... I dont think anyone would see any point in absorbing app just to pwn the uni again, Asc has been there and done that.
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how many people are in app that were originally asc players that you would be looking to take back?
__________________
Runner up in the InSomnia 'Drunkest HC' competition - Currently on the wagon
Elysium | HR | eXilition | OuZo | ND | InSomnia | DLR
db battlegroup founder and spiritual leader
Sexytime HC of Belgians (#s3xytime)
Not so retired anymore....
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22 Feb 2010, 17:30
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#13
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Amazing
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Bristol
Posts: 63
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Re: looking to the future
1. 50 man tags
2. Private galaxies
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DLR
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22 Feb 2010, 17:40
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#14
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Paso Leaute
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
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Re: looking to the future
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mek
how many people are in app that were originally asc players that you would be looking to take back?
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I have no idea, hence the net metaphor.
Without app as opposition there is far less need for asc to return as anything large, a round without great powers would be nice, but those ppl have to go somewhere so its wishful thinking.
__________________
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
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22 Feb 2010, 17:45
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#15
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Miles Teg
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Dom City
Posts: 5,192
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Re: looking to the future
There are plenty of retards in Apprime who I wouldn't entrust to organize a piss up in a brewery. That said there are also plenty who would do a good job, but from most of those I did not hear any intend in 'pwning the universe once more'.
To be honest it gets a bit tedious to beat CT, ND, DLR and whatever other mediocre alliance there is over and over and over ..
What is even worse is people in those alliances then getting a say in how to shape the next round, making it 'easier' for them. (While they forget it will be even easier for us so they still die. And die hard.)
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Audentes Fortuna Iuvat
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22 Feb 2010, 17:52
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#16
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InSomniac
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Durham, England
Posts: 1,473
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Re: looking to the future
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Theamion
To be honest it gets a bit tedious to beat CT, ND, DLR and whatever other mediocre alliance there is over and over and over ..
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so you would rather people just didn't even try to mount an opposition against you round after round so you could win easier?
__________________
Runner up in the InSomnia 'Drunkest HC' competition - Currently on the wagon
Elysium | HR | eXilition | OuZo | ND | InSomnia | DLR
db battlegroup founder and spiritual leader
Sexytime HC of Belgians (#s3xytime)
Not so retired anymore....
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22 Feb 2010, 18:17
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#17
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Miles Teg
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Dom City
Posts: 5,192
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Re: looking to the future
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mek
so you would rather people just didn't even try to mount an opposition against you round after round so you could win easier?
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I wish they learned from their mistakes instead of making the same mistakes over and over and over and ...
__________________
Audentes Fortuna Iuvat
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22 Feb 2010, 19:25
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#18
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You've Seen The Light
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,152
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Re: looking to the future
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Theamion
I wish they learned from their mistakes instead of making the same mistakes over and over and over and ...
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or maybe all the 'great' and 'awesome' PA players could stop grouping together in one alliance and then blaming everyone else for not providing them with any competition.
Every flooded to Apprime, as that was the alliance to go to for the win.
__________________
First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.
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22 Feb 2010, 19:30
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
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Re: looking to the future
As if anyone who left App\Asc would be allowed to go straight into a decision-making position in DLR\ND\CT, and thus help them correct their mistakes.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
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22 Feb 2010, 20:37
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#20
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CRASHING BEATS 'N FANTASY
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cold Country.
Posts: 1,912
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Re: looking to the future
It's a vicious circle, really. The game is annoyingly one dimensional and still relies upon this brutal high value / high activity way of playing. This means that of course those people will gather together that are willed to respond to SMS when needed, even get up at night and so on. In turn this makes it fairly boring for the opposition, too, because the only way would be to massively outnumber those few active people. This, however, takes organizational skills that exceed those of the opposition, because the skilled people most of the time cannot sustain their playing style if the rest of their alliance takes a more relaxed approach. So, unless they accept to not be in a winning position, they will move on to be part of those more active people. Leaving behind those which do not care too much about the game itself but more about their internet friends. And so on ...
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Ià! Ià! Munin F'tagn! - [*scendancy]
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22 Feb 2010, 22:29
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#21
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This Space for Rent
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 583
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Re: looking to the future
love how everything on AD gets turned into an Ascendancy discussion, but since we are all entitled to our own opinions...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mek
what went wrong this round?
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the same thing that goes wrong every round. everyone builds basically the same fleet and can't attack one other (or they just choose not to) and hides behind fences and blocks.
Quote:
why do we think it went wrong?
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players would rather listen to how their alliance wants to play instead of thinking with their own mental power. most alliances only play for #2 and don't want another alliance to get #1 if cooperation does exist.
Quote:
how can the game be improved to prevent such a dull round occuring again?
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i don't think its necessarily something the game needs to improve to fix, its the community. just because an alliance has a member in a galaxy, don't purposely avoid attacking it. just because a galaxy has "the top players" don't avoid it. don't play for #2 as an alliance with the blocks you form in order to play for planet/galaxy ranks. et al.
__________________
When in doubt, blame Ascendancy.
#pastats
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23 Feb 2010, 00:08
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#22
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zawze^asc
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Norway.
Posts: 87
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Re: looking to the future
I had fun this round, so from my POV nothing went wrong!
__________________
"Facts are just opinions, and opinons can be wrong, the only thing that's never wrong is confidence."
- Veronica Palmer, Better Off Ted
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23 Feb 2010, 00:18
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#23
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InSomniac
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Durham, England
Posts: 1,473
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Re: looking to the future
Quote:
Originally Posted by eltsin
I had fun this round, so from my POV nothing went wrong!
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what did you enjoy about the round?
__________________
Runner up in the InSomnia 'Drunkest HC' competition - Currently on the wagon
Elysium | HR | eXilition | OuZo | ND | InSomnia | DLR
db battlegroup founder and spiritual leader
Sexytime HC of Belgians (#s3xytime)
Not so retired anymore....
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23 Feb 2010, 01:16
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#24
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fanboy
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 492
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Re: looking to the future
Quote:
Originally Posted by mek
what did you enjoy about the round?
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ruining
__________________
Ascendancy, former [ 1UP] & Ministry.
FOUNDER OF THE OFFICIAL ASCENDANCY LADY GAGA FAN CLUB
ASCENDANCY DEMOLITION MAN
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23 Feb 2010, 01:44
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Posts: 673
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Re: looking to the future
im predicting ODDR to have an even stronger core of players next round, build up from our own core of noobs and oldschool.
almost sad to see the tag limit go down to 50
__________________
At some point the world shits on everybody. Pretending it ain't shit makes you an idiot, not an optimist."
If life hands you lemons, drink more tequila
After the game is over the king and the pawn end up in the same box
HA - asc -rdm-asc-VR- #ODDR - APP
Finally retired
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23 Feb 2010, 12:50
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#26
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Lithuania, Vilnius
Posts: 106
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Re: looking to the future
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Theamion
There are plenty of retards in Apprime who I wouldn't entrust to organize a piss up in a brewery. That said there are also plenty who would do a good job, but from most of those I did not hear any intend in 'pwning the universe once more'.
To be honest it gets a bit tedious to beat CT, ND, DLR and whatever other mediocre alliance there is over and over and over ..
What is even worse is people in those alliances then getting a say in how to shape the next round, making it 'easier' for them. (While they forget it will be even easier for us so they still die. And die hard.)
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pretty much all those retards were asc core, most get kicked and more will be
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23 Feb 2010, 12:51
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#27
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Lithuania, Vilnius
Posts: 106
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Re: looking to the future
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mek
how many people are in app that were originally asc players that you would be looking to take back?
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around 10people from asc joined and saying that all top players are in apprime its wrong. To Mek if you want your alliance's play better change ur BC's HC's because same people keep ruining things every round over and over again.
like stop hitting most active app gals every rnd and focus on their "shitter" gals this way you can easily roid us and keep our top gals for later? like we do this every round, we are going for easy gals(roids) and focus on top gals in the end only. As you can see you keep hitting our top gals and failing every time so you are killing your member morale and then more and more people going to solo attacks because they want to land some attacks, also explain me 1thing about this round why you ptargetted apprime with block in our fortress gals? like 3-4people in our gals get incs max 3 waves and rest of the gal is without incs. Tbh never saw more retarded decissions than this one.
Last edited by izverg; 23 Feb 2010 at 13:11.
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23 Feb 2010, 15:05
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#28
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Fook Yu
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Looked pal
Posts: 383
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Re: looking to the future
Quote:
Originally Posted by izverg
To Mek if you want your alliance's play better change ur BC's HC's because same people keep ruining things every round over and over again.
like stop hitting most active app gals every rnd and focus on their "shitter" gals this way you can easily roid us and keep our top gals for later? like we do this every round, we are going for easy gals(roids) and focus on top gals in the end only. As you can see you keep hitting our top gals and failing every time so you are killing your member morale and then more and more people going to solo attacks because they want to land some attacks, also explain me 1thing about this round why you ptargetted apprime with block in our fortress gals? like 3-4people in our gals get incs max 3 waves and rest of the gal is without incs. Tbh never saw more retarded decissions than this one.
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I can't believe I'm saying this, but I couldn't agree more.
__________________
HEROES - It's not cheating if you admit to it
Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 23 Feb 2010 at 16:52.
Reason: there's no need for that
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23 Feb 2010, 15:40
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
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Re: looking to the future
Quote:
Originally Posted by HellKicker
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I couldn't agree more.
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Seconded. Those two choices of attacking that were made were quite simply rediculous.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 23 Feb 2010 at 16:52.
Reason: quote fix
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23 Feb 2010, 21:15
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#30
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self-entitledly superior
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 341
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Re: looking to the future
your spelling is nothing short of rediculous
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23 Feb 2010, 21:56
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#31
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Bragpack™
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 815
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Re: looking to the future
Quote:
Originally Posted by izverg
pretty much all those retards were asc core, most get kicked and more will be
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Give us names, my dear idiot. NAME AND SHAME !
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23 Feb 2010, 21:57
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#32
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Bragpack™
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 815
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Re: looking to the future
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hude
your spelling is nothing short of rediculous
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just like his mum.
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24 Feb 2010, 15:07
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#33
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zawze^asc
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Norway.
Posts: 87
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Re: looking to the future
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkie
ruining
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So true so true. But to elaborate!
I spent the round playing when I wanted and had the time for it. That basicly means playing a covop planet, which I did. I could log on, ruin people, log off and forget about pa until next time I logged on. It was great.
__________________
"Facts are just opinions, and opinons can be wrong, the only thing that's never wrong is confidence."
- Veronica Palmer, Better Off Ted
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24 Feb 2010, 15:13
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#34
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Lithuania, Vilnius
Posts: 106
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Re: looking to the future
why all those asc people keep posting some off topic posts there?
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24 Feb 2010, 15:20
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#35
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: looking to the future
Quote:
Originally Posted by izverg
why all those asc people keep posting some off topic posts there?
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Point number one. Read, comprehend, recognise, respect.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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24 Feb 2010, 16:01
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#36
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Lithuania, Vilnius
Posts: 106
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Re: looking to the future
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
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24 Feb 2010, 16:30
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#37
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: looking to the future
Well, that was certainly, er, nothing?
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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4 Mar 2010, 09:03
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#38
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Over the moon
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Deeeeenmark
Posts: 547
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Re: looking to the future
Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx
As if anyone who left App\Asc would be allowed to go straight into a decision-making position in DLR\ND\CT, and thus help them correct their mistakes.
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I did, sorta. Was kinda bad timing with my computer dieing and I only played half the round. It's always hard to get the sort of respect needed for changing things in an established alliance so you would typically need more than a round to do it. However, I think we've had so many players through the system in asc now (we counted them a while back but I forgot the number, at least 200 different people I'd guess) that nearly every alliance has some ex-asc in them.
Just being a member of an alliance hardly qualifies you to go out and teach others though, there have been rounds where half of asc also had no idea what was going on. So you need the right people to do it, but they will often be frustrated by the resistance and distrust others have. I've had many talks with for example a CT hc and genuinely tried to help the alliance improve by offering my opinion about what needed to change. And while he listened, none of those things we talk about have ever happened.
__________________
Golan - Ascendancy
Planets.
Zik: 3rd(r30), 4th(r52), 7th(r27), 9th(r26), 31st(r51)
Ter: 3rd(r50), 4th(r53), 4th(r37), 5th(r31) 7th (r58)
Xan: 3rd(r36), 40th(r57) 54th(r33), 104th(r29)
Cat: 8th (r54), 9th(r48), 12th (r55), 20th(r32), 77th(r23), 103rd(r38), 150th(r34), 152nd(r24),
Etd: 14th(r28)
Those damn emp races..
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4 Mar 2010, 12:45
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#39
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Banned
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: ******
Posts: 2,326
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Re: looking to the future
The fact of the matter is that the requirements to change an alliance are many and compounding, and one of them is work on all the other requirements. While many people are happy to sit around on IRC all day shooting the shit, many of these don't want to do the "work" associated with running a successful alliance.
I don't blame them, a game shouldn't be about work. But done right, that work can be fun and rewarding. You just need to find a way for that work to be fun and rewarding in its own right, rather than only if you win. While I very much enjoy saying that winning is more fun than losing, that doesn't mean there's nothing to be said for finishing second, third or even tenth in the alliance rankings. It's all about what you did to get there.
A lot of alliances seem to want a rank for the rank's sake, but it turns out that this kind of logic is self-defeating. If you're angling for a rank, you're unwilling to take risks. And what is a game if not the enjoyment of risk-taking in a controlled environment.
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