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Unread 24 Mar 2005, 09:12   #1
Structural Integrity
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What's wrong with these politicians nowadays?!

Our minister of national management renewal (or whatever the word for it is) resigned his post after the "eerste kamer" (can eb compared with you house of lords I believe) rejected the plans for an elected mayor.
And now his party is threatening the rest of the cabinet to plunge the whole government into a crisis if they don't implement one of their other major agenda items.

I can't believe people can have their heads so far up their own arse. I've never seen something as childish as Dutch politics.
Do things like this happen in the UK too? That ministers resign when their plans get rejected?

The worst part of this is that when the government falls (again) I will have to vote again and figure out what every party has to offer.
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Unread 24 Mar 2005, 09:17   #2
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Re: What's wrong with these politicians nowadays?!

Democracy sucks
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Unread 24 Mar 2005, 11:21   #3
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Re: What's wrong with these politicians nowadays?!

In the UK, when their plans fail, they try to make it sound like it actually succeeded, just in a different form (they can't stand the idea of being seen to be defeated in something), or, in the case of the Labour government, they bully MP's into voting for it (through the use of MP's called Whips), and then when it gets to the House of Lords, if it fails, they send it back and forth til it gets accepted (although more recently they brought in an act that means they can force it through the House of Lords, i.e. bypass it completely - which, when considered next to other parts of the UK governments setup, means that the government can do whatever the hell it wants really).
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Unread 24 Mar 2005, 11:35   #4
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Re: What's wrong with these politicians nowadays?!

Actually the Parliament Act (the legislation allowing the Commons to bypass the Lords) has been around for nearly 100 years, but it's never been so flagrantly abused by anyone before Labour came along.

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.parliament.uk
Until the early years of the 20th century, the House of Lords had the power to prevent legislation, as bills had to be passed by both Houses of Parliament.

David Lloyd-George's so-called 'people's budget' of 1909 brought this arrangement under strain, when the House of Lords originally refused to pass it. Eventually, the budget was passed after a general election in 1910; a second election was then fought on the issue of reform of the House of Lords. The result was the Parliament Act of 1911, which removed from the House of Lords the power to veto a bill, except one to prolong the lifetime of a parliament. Instead, the Lords could delay a bill by up to two years. The Act also reduced the maximum lifespan of a Parliament from seven years to its present five years. The Parliament Act 1949 further reduced the Lords' delaying powers to one year.

Since 1949 four acts have been passed into law without the consent of the House of Lords:

The War Crimes Act 1991

The European Parliamentary Elections Act 1999

The Sexual Offences (Amendment) Act 2000

The Hunting Act 2004
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Unread 24 Mar 2005, 12:05   #5
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Re: What's wrong with these politicians nowadays?!

i don't think this will cause another crisis in the parliament. think it'll end with a 'generaal pardon' for the D66 rebels. :P
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Unread 24 Mar 2005, 12:07   #6
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Re: What's wrong with these politicians nowadays?!

its election time.

lets open the gates on issues deemed sensitive but will curry favour with the mass voters who read the like of the Daily Telegraph.

blah blah blah
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Unread 24 Mar 2005, 13:20   #7
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Re: What's wrong with these politicians nowadays?!

I like the House of Lords. They are probably the only part of the political system that is remotely interested in civil liberties.
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Unread 24 Mar 2005, 13:29   #8
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Re: What's wrong with these politicians nowadays?!

I like the house of Lords, they are not elected which means that they can go with their feelings rather than make decisions based on trying to get as many votes as possible.
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Unread 24 Mar 2005, 13:36   #9
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Re: What's wrong with these politicians nowadays?!

My city has had an elected mayor for years
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Unread 24 Mar 2005, 13:37   #10
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Re: What's wrong with these politicians nowadays?!

I thought the parliament act could only be used if the bill has been rejected by the lords in two seperate terms? there are a few other things needed as well i think...
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Unread 24 Mar 2005, 13:43   #11
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Re: What's wrong with these politicians nowadays?!

Certainly it has to be rejected twice, and the reason they didn't use it for the recent "anti-terrorism" bullshit was because there wasn't enough time before the old legislation ran out for them to use it. But it does mean that, given time, the government can force through pretty much anything if they have a sufficient majority in the commons.
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Unread 24 Mar 2005, 14:06   #12
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Re: What's wrong with these politicians nowadays?!

How terrible, that having an elected majority is enough for the government to make decisions, and that an unelected body merely plays an advisory role, with the Royal Assent being a mere formality.
I blame asylum seekers.
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Unread 24 Mar 2005, 14:26   #13
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Re: What's wrong with these politicians nowadays?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshy
My city has had an elected mayor for years
so has my old one, and he's an utter cock.
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Unread 24 Mar 2005, 14:41   #14
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Re: What's wrong with these politicians nowadays?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYMM
How terrible, that having an elected majority is enough for the government to make decisions, and that an unelected body merely plays an advisory role, with the Royal Assent being a mere formality.
I blame asylum seekers.
One problem with democracy is that it generally leads to short-term policies. You need more permanent people to think about long-term policies. After all, all that politicians do is represent the mood of the day, and that can change very quickly (although, it is effectively an elected dictatorship anyway).

Also, a unicameral democracy tends to be less 'kind'.
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Unread 24 Mar 2005, 15:01   #15
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Re: What's wrong with these politicians nowadays?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWSBOT3
so has my old one, and he's an utter cock.
I didn't vote for ours either, I voted for the other candidate
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Unread 24 Mar 2005, 18:43   #16
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Re: What's wrong with these politicians nowadays?!

YOURI MULDER FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!


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Unread 24 Mar 2005, 18:47   #17
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Re: What's wrong with these politicians nowadays?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Structural Integrity
Our minister of national management renewal (or whatever the word for it is) resigned his post after the "eerste kamer" (can eb compared with you house of lords I believe) rejected the plans for an elected mayor.
And now his party is threatening the rest of the cabinet to plunge the whole government into a crisis if they don't implement one of their other major agenda items.

I can't believe people can have their heads so far up their own arse. I've never seen something as childish as Dutch politics.
Do things like this happen in the UK too? That ministers resign when their plans get rejected?

The worst part of this is that when the government falls (again) I will have to vote again and figure out what every party has to offer.
Have you ever considered the world to be bigger than Holland and the UK?
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Unread 24 Mar 2005, 19:10   #18
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Re: What's wrong with these politicians nowadays?!

Quote:
What's wrong with these politicians nowadays?!
Like it was any different *ever*.
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Unread 24 Mar 2005, 19:15   #19
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Re: What's wrong with these politicians nowadays?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
Have you ever considered the world to be bigger than Holland and the UK?
Hows things in Russia?
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Unread 24 Mar 2005, 19:28   #20
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Re: What's wrong with these politicians nowadays?!

Cold and impoverished, comrade.
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Unread 24 Mar 2005, 21:21   #21
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Re: What's wrong with these politicians nowadays?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
I think it has to be in the manifesto as well.
If that's true (I'll have to check sometime), then it won't get used. When was the last time a manifesto was stuck to?
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Unread 25 Mar 2005, 00:16   #22
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Re: What's wrong with these politicians nowadays?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Structural Integrity
Hows things in Russia?
Im not there, ask Putin to get the official version
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Unread 25 Mar 2005, 00:19   #23
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Re: What's wrong with these politicians nowadays?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
I think it has to be in the manifesto as well.
don't think so, i thought the lords couldn't oppose it at all if it was the manifesto
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