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Unread 6 Oct 2015, 16:33   #201
SantaCruz
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Re: Santa Stats

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Touche.

But why would the others?
Cause hc like gm munkee and agar3s pick the right strats every round.
Gm has been hcing for like 50 rounds. Agar3s dc's every round like a pro.
These guys know stats and what they should do or shouldn't do.

You keep saying I know nothing about stats yet I've been hcing off and on since r8. Playing since r1. I'm not stupid when it comes to stats. I can't even remember picking a strat that failed ally. I'm using experience I gathered over 64 rounds. So please just stop trolling.

I'm not stupid these are good stats. Everyone else that's concerned about stats besides you and yours agree. So bugger off
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Unread 6 Oct 2015, 17:24   #202
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Re: Santa Stats

i know nothing about stats, leave that to the guys, usually monroe/joopster
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Unread 6 Oct 2015, 17:24   #203
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Re: Santa Stats

Now you are obviously just making up stuff.
I can say ive talked to all the other HCs, and it would be as much truth as what you are saying atm.
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Unread 6 Oct 2015, 17:43   #204
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Re: Santa Stats

Yes your right I am.
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Unread 6 Oct 2015, 17:47   #205
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Re: Santa Stats

i did talk to santa about the sk in stats and my position on it was sk is fine, that's why we had structure defense.
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Unread 6 Oct 2015, 17:49   #206
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Re: Santa Stats

Butcher is a retard.
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Unread 6 Oct 2015, 19:27   #207
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Re: Santa Stats

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Originally Posted by munkee View Post
butcher is a retard.
qft
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Unread 6 Oct 2015, 23:10   #208
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Re: Santa Stats

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Originally Posted by SantaCruz View Post
Tia just doesn't like the fact cath has no Eta 7.after that he is passed I won't change locust targeting. He will never support my stats cause I won't listen to something I know it's wrong. That

Not at all and if you knew me you know i hate Cat the race more than any other in this game. However the problem isn't lack of eta 7 cath attacks. Cath can always cov op Co pods and Go Beetles. My PROBLEM with cath is their lack of good team ups.

If you go Cath De you team with zik De, which is far superior to cath de in every way. So why play Cath except to support the Zik's

If you go Cath Bs you team with Etd Bs, which you Santa have even said is the most useless fleet in the stats and since you haven't bothered to change that is another issue entirely. However back to Cath, Since etd bs is garbage you forced to play Solo. You are decent emp, T1 vs Fr which is Sad, since the only Fr that T1 bs is ranger which is emp init 2 vs you at init 1. Whereas Clipper and Saint are both T1 vs Bs. The only shining hope for Cath Bs is T1 cr at a whopping 188% Vs ter(a bit high dont you think?) and 196 vs Xan(WAY high)

The problem with cath is their team ups not their stats. Cath Bs is XP city unless round goes with De(which no one will play) And then if you look at the total build Cath has good def ships vs Fi(Beetle) and Roach(change the name) vs Fr otherwise Cath are a pretty ineffective race this round. Which you did by making Cath De useless because of targeting. Besides any one that plays cath a lot will just switch to play Etd Fi which is the SAME as Cath Co in every round. Except Etd fi loses to Cath.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SantaCruz View Post
Nice race assessment. To bad you've already told me that co is to strong. Now your saying no one will go it.
30% Xan is Co, Zik Co is also a joke no Steal in Co, Your better off playing zik Fi. And everyone knows that I love zik, And really I do love Clipper 502 A/C with prefire over all and 452 D/C. However outside clipper Zik is just a way to finish in mid 200's unless you have lots of support planets and a good galaxy to flagship you.
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Unread 6 Oct 2015, 23:31   #209
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Re: Santa Stats

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Not at all and if you knew me you know i hate Cat the race more than any other in this game. However the problem isn't lack of eta 7 cath attacks. Cath can always cov op Co pods and Go Beetles. My PROBLEM with cath is their lack of good team ups.

If you go Cath De you team with zik De, which is far superior to cath de in every way. So why play Cath except to support the Zik's

If you go Cath Bs you team with Etd Bs, which you Santa have even said is the most useless fleet in the stats and since you haven't bothered to change that is another issue entirely. However back to Cath, Since etd bs is garbage you forced to play Solo. You are decent emp, T1 vs Fr which is Sad, since the only Fr that T1 bs is ranger which is emp init 2 vs you at init 1. Whereas Clipper and Saint are both T1 vs Bs. The only shining hope for Cath Bs is T1 cr at a whopping 188% Vs ter(a bit high dont you think?) and 196 vs Xan(WAY high)

The problem with cath is their team ups not their stats. Cath Bs is XP city unless round goes with De(which no one will play) And then if you look at the total build Cath has good def ships vs Fi(Beetle) and Roach(change the name) vs Fr otherwise Cath are a pretty ineffective race this round. Which you did by making Cath De useless because of targeting. Besides any one that plays cath a lot will just switch to play Etd Fi which is the SAME as Cath Co in every round. Except Etd fi loses to Cath.



30% Xan is Co, Zik Co is also a joke no Steal in Co, Your better off playing zik Fi. And everyone knows that I love zik, And really I do love Clipper 502 A/C with prefire over all and 452 D/C. However outside clipper Zik is just a way to finish in mid 200's unless you have lots of support planets and a good galaxy to flagship you.
All of which is only your opinion. 0 fact's. I never said that ETD BS is useless. I said i probably wasted my time balancing it cause no one will even bother going it. That's totally different. Tycoon is one of the most useful ships against CR. ETD BS is not shit.

Your opinions say it is. My opinion says it isn't. My opinion says that everything you say isn't based on calcs. Doesn't matter that clipper in A/C 502. It has to be because FI So strong. Everything i did with tweaking is to balance inits.

I've tried to tell you this so many times. These are not your stats. The way you would like them balanced. Doesn't mean the way i did it was wrong or unplayable. IT'S JUST NOT WHAT YOU PREFER.

Have the points you bring up here. You contradict in the next post. Since the start you have told me to make changes and when i don't make everyone you suggest you go anal. You stopped being helpful when I wouldn't change locust targeting. Now you are just saying random shit.

If you got a problem with other people doing stats. Do your own. I'm not here to fight with you over nothing. I'm here to try and make next round enjoyable cause no one else was.

you even suggest i change names of ships cause you wouldn't have named them that. This is a YOU problem. not a stats problem. ty for your effort but, you aren't helping anymore
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Unread 6 Oct 2015, 23:35   #210
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Re: Santa Stats

Is anyone else seeing a problem with Zik? Tia told me yesterday that zik was to strong and cath was just a support to them. Now they are totally shit i guess.

Besides not stealing into co (which it can't do and be useful)

The stupidest thing about you trolling me Tia. If the fact I stuck up for your stupid stats last round. I even took shit on forums earlier for trying to defend them. I when i help you with stats. I suggest. If you don't take it, i move on. I look at your changes and I deal with your choices.

You on the other hand obsess over people not doing exactly what you say. There is no suggestions in your posts. Your telling me do this or i'm stupid and my stats are unplayable. But, your not stats god. Infact the more you act like this, the more you look like butcher. Just here to get your away or troll. Your opinion doesn't hold more weight then mine. You are just you, and i am just me. You are "hodoring" my stats, cause i don't agree with you. However you don't know these stats as well as i do. Maybe it's time you actually trust my view on things. You didn't spend 20 hours looking over them. I have.
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Unread 7 Oct 2015, 01:54   #211
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Re: Santa Stats

Imo BS is a support strat atm. No ally would go BS as main strat but CATHS can be enough good as a complement for other strats. Example: XAN CR(main) + CATH BS(support). If that was the aim of it then it is fine the way it is.
But ETD BS seems irrelevant. I thought of three suggestions:

- If Starwart had DE as T1 and FR was Tycoon's T2 the CATH+ETD BS would still have the flaw of being mostly EMP based, but would be more ofensive.

- Making DE as T1 in Tycoon and in Recluse would help. But BW would be more useless. And it is considerably useless atm with its current D/C in comparison with Cerberus, Scorpion, Saint and Clipper effs.

- Making Tycoon INIT 5 firing before all DEs (Clipper exception) and before all CRs (Spectre exception).

===============

About CATH/ZIK DE, I think the match against FI is fine. Imo only a few strats will allow an ally to base its anti-DE defense on FI. So maybe running a few calcs combining FI and CO on def is enough to judge if ZIK/CATH DE is playable.
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Unread 7 Oct 2015, 02:40   #212
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Re: Santa Stats

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Originally Posted by fortran View Post
Imo BS is a support strat atm. No ally would go BS as main strat but CATHS can be enough good as a complement for other strats. Example: XAN CR(main) + CATH BS(support). If that was the aim of it then it is fine the way it is.
But ETD BS seems irrelevant. I thought of three suggestions:

- If Starwart had DE as T1 and FR was Tycoon's T2 the CATH+ETD BS would still have the flaw of being mostly EMP based, but would be more ofensive.

- Making DE as T1 in Tycoon and in Recluse would help. But BW would be more useless. And it is considerably useless atm with its current D/C in comparison with Cerberus, Scorpion, Saint and Clipper effs.

- Making Tycoon INIT 5 firing before all DEs (Clipper exception) and before all CRs (Spectre exception).

===============

About CATH/ZIK DE, I think the match against FI is fine. Imo only a few strats will allow an ally to base its anti-DE defense on FI. So maybe running a few calcs combining FI and CO on def is enough to judge if ZIK/CATH DE is playable.
About Cath/ETD bs. Few things people don't see cause they are only looking at init.
First -is probably the most powerful ship in the round. Calc it vs CR. It ****ing owns CR. Can stop 2mil xan cr with 800k.
Second - BW is not useless. It's the reason BS can even hit de/cr. It's eff's are high for cath kill and it's flaked by 2 high armor beasts for BS. When you run calcs. BW is awesome addition to your fleet. You would be stupid not to by them. 15% of your attack value into BW makes landing de/cr doable.
Third - Like every strat in my stats. No team targets FR/DE T1 kill together. One always hit FR and the other always hits DE. That's cause one is strong VS DE and one is strong vs FR. BS is supposed to be weak to FR. That's why it only freezes FR. There is only 3 FR anti BS fleets. Viper/Brig (both t2) and Ranger EMP. It makes 0 sense for ETD to kill FR. Having double EMP is awesome. IT's like having 3.5x the value on attack vs FR. Meaning it's hard as **** to stop.
Bs is a very playable class. Even tycoon t2 vs DE when added with cath bw/roach is awesome.
Take the time to look into it. Changing this setup won't do any good. It's already pretty strong as is.

Bs attacking DE Zik with cath def
http://speedgame.planetarion.com/bca...9bev22apqoqdta
Bs attack pure xan CR
http://speedgame.planetarion.com/bca...6ehyx3p94l4yyi
Bs attacking Xan/ter cr
http://speedgame.planetarion.com/bca...u7lm7qo0lyuuuc
Note the difference when you add ter CR. Xan Cr is paper planes. Init means nothing in these stats. They are just a firing order. You can win a calc with a init 9 just as well as an init 4. It just depends if your supposed to win...
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Last edited by SantaCruz; 7 Oct 2015 at 03:39.
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Unread 7 Oct 2015, 03:09   #213
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Re: Santa Stats

i went over DE vs Co calcs again tonight. I lowered Clipper dmg. Switched to t1 co.

It takes about 20% more value for def to cover now than before. This change also sparked me to lower locust eff's however. It's still higher than it was originally.
It was to powerful for t1 co.

This change also helps BS. As people were talking about DE being hard for BS to roid. Switching to T2 on De helped that nicely

Rev got 2 more armor and Cutter also got armor upgrade to deal with DE now firing T1. the eff's are looking good now. Co is slightly effected by the target change on def. However co attack planets will still be harder for DE to roid.

Looked into the issues people had with BW. I gave it a power bump. Firing last it really only does anything with cath isn't hit. I also tweaked roach t2. BS is now more playable vs DE forts.

tweaked ter CR which was pretty over powered. It's not overwhelming now.

I'm not really sure what other changes can be made. I'm pretty much just changing things cause i'm over thinking now. The point of changing just to change is kinda silly
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Unread 7 Oct 2015, 03:24   #214
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Re: Santa Stats

I put all DE x BS in this calc:
http://speedgame.planetarion.com/bca...uq1ixs1p0lclml

My judgement: considering a planet will have 20% of its value as Clippers, Saints or Cerberus, I consider it needs:
- 3 Saint fleets; or
- 4 Cerberus fleets; or
- 4 Clippers fleets...
... to make a equal value BS atk recall.

Considering all of them are non-cloak, Saints cant be faked and that Clippers are most likely atking, BS seems idd an OK strat.
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Unread 7 Oct 2015, 06:30   #215
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Re: Santa Stats

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Originally Posted by SantaCruz View Post
I'm not really sure what other changes can be made. I'm pretty much just changing things cause i'm over thinking now. The point of changing just to change is kinda silly
Good point, considering any bigger changes now, could hurt other parts and make balance overal worse.
Hm i was gonna suggest lowering ERES on the DE, since the EMP with t2 vs them was even below 100%, but looks like you fixed that already.

Oh are the res stealers efficiencies on purpose?
The Terran one takes 1,2 succesful lands (full cap) to get its own res back and the zik one only 0,6
I think in earlier round that number was around the 3. Now it can give you a big boost really fast if you get lucky/find a friendly person.
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Unread 7 Oct 2015, 12:40   #216
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Re: Santa Stats

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Originally Posted by Shhhhhhh View Post
Good point, considering any bigger changes now, could hurt other parts and make balance overal worse.
Hm i was gonna suggest lowering ERES on the DE, since the EMP with t2 vs them was even below 100%, but looks like you fixed that already.

Oh are the res stealers efficiencies on purpose?
The Terran one takes 1,2 succesful lands (full cap) to get its own res back and the zik one only 0,6
I think in earlier round that number was around the 3. Now it can give you a big boost really fast if you get lucky/find a friendly person.
I think I used tia's numbers from last round. I will look tonight
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Unread 7 Oct 2015, 16:21   #217
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Re: Santa Stats

I might have missed the discussion about the res-stealers, but their synergy with a roiding fleet, makes it really attractive and easy to steal resources.
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Unread 7 Oct 2015, 17:41   #218
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Re: Santa Stats

3 lands to repay is a good balance, imo.
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Unread 7 Oct 2015, 18:56   #219
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Re: Santa Stats

Yeah I don't think it needs to be more powerful. The idea is to try and get people spending and alliances. Bf had an awesome amount of stock last round. I just want to make sure if your able to stock, your also working for it. Good politics or good def and you can still stock. If not your going to need to spend.
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Unread 7 Oct 2015, 20:41   #220
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Re: Santa Stats

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
3 lands to repay is a good balance, imo.
It was a discussion about this the other round.
Dunno if anything good came out of it, but yes, 3 lands sounds a little too strong.
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Unread 7 Oct 2015, 23:29   #221
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Re: Santa Stats

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
It was a discussion about this the other round.
Dunno if anything good came out of it, but yes, 3 lands sounds a little too strong.
Sorry it sounds like your disagreeing but, you said "yes" which would make you agree.

which is it?
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Unread 7 Oct 2015, 23:38   #222
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Re: Santa Stats

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Sorry it sounds like your disagreeing but, you said "yes" which would make you agree.

which is it?
That perhaps it should be 4-5 lands to make it pay itself. Dunno what i set in my stats, but for simplicity i think i went with 3 aswell
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Unread 8 Oct 2015, 07:01   #223
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Re: Santa Stats

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
3 lands to repay is a good balance, imo.
I agree 3 lands is good when they're not well synced with pods.
In these stats they are abit too powerful for my liking.

Aside of that, I think you made a good set Santa
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Unread 8 Oct 2015, 12:26   #224
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Re: Santa Stats

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
That perhaps it should be 4-5 lands to make it pay itself. Dunno what i set in my stats, but for simplicity i think i went with 3 aswell
  • Perhaps
  • Dunno
  • I think

Come on buddy, type with conviction.
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Unread 8 Oct 2015, 12:40   #225
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Re: Santa Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitros View Post
I agree 3 lands is good when they're not well synced with pods.
In these stats they are abit too powerful for my liking.

Aside of that, I think you made a good set Santa
You think they should be more expensive or just lower dgm? Two ways of doing it and my site which is gong to be better.
More expensive means less to start the round. This is the way in leaning.
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Unread 8 Oct 2015, 13:04   #226
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Re: Santa Stats

The cost does matter, If i put in 500k each I'll gain back my investment faster than if you make the damage less. Unless your going to make them have less of a return on value, they will be the main focus of the round.
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Unread 8 Oct 2015, 13:09   #227
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Re: Santa Stats

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
The cost does matter, If i put in 500k each I'll gain back my investment faster than if you make the damage less. Unless your going to make them have less of a return on value, they will be the main focus of the round.
Like every ship I would calc until they are what they should be. Raising cost is fine when you add the fact you need to have that much resources and then the eff is correct to go with it.
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Unread 8 Oct 2015, 14:05   #228
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Re: Santa Stats

i like this set due to the fact its something different, and butcher can still pick the wrong strat for rainbows.
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Unread 8 Oct 2015, 14:06   #229
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Re: Santa Stats

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Originally Posted by SantaCruz View Post
You think they should be more expensive or just lower dgm? Two ways of doing it and my site which is gong to be better.
More expensive means less to start the round. This is the way in leaning.
More expensive or less stealing is equivalent: 500 ships that steal 50 each or 1000 ships that steal 25 each comes out the same. You should keep their cost roughly in line with other ships in their class, to avoid messing up EMP.
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Unread 8 Oct 2015, 16:00   #230
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Re: Santa Stats

I generally like the set: lots of options for any kind of player or ally.
Just one question: why only Ter and Zik have res stealers?
Any particular reason or you think Ter and Zik stats are weaker than the other 3 races?
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Unread 8 Oct 2015, 16:24   #231
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Re: Santa Stats

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Originally Posted by SantaCruz View Post
You think they should be more expensive or just lower dgm? Two ways of doing it and my site which is gong to be better.
More expensive means less to start the round. This is the way in leaning.
I would go with what mz said. Keep the cost in line with the similar ships and slightly lower the damage accordingly.
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Unread 8 Oct 2015, 18:06   #232
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Re: Santa Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by lince View Post
I generally like the set: lots of options for any kind of player or ally.
Just one question: why only Ter and Zik have res stealers?
Any particular reason or you think Ter and Zik stats are weaker than the other 3 races?
They would be pretty over powered worth xan co. Being able to 3x attack with pods and stealers. And etd "well fi can't have two res steal and co only one" so or if etd and ter. I went with ter. Etd has Eta 8 SK in a very strong setup. Cath DE could have them but as zik could farm a few. I went with keeping them out of zik hands outside Eta 7.
Those reasons might not make total sense as I probably explained then so only I know what I'm taking about lol.

As for cost mz, your probably correct. I'm going to assume you are and save myself checking into it. I might only drop eff as people suggest to 4 lands. As they will be used all round. 4 rounds isn't that much.
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Unread 9 Oct 2015, 03:00   #233
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Re: Santa Stats

DROOOOOOPPPPPPPPP
Dmg on res stealers 166 > 71 & 76. Now takes 4 lands to repay your value.

This does look a lot better than 3 lands. These are ships your going to use all round.
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Unread 9 Oct 2015, 13:55   #234
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Re: Santa Stats

is this set gonna be used?
is it final?

what are we waiting for?
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Unread 9 Oct 2015, 14:03   #235
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Re: Santa Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0RPH3US View Post
is this set gonna be used?
is it final?

what are we waiting for?
We are waiting for appoco to "pick" a set
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Unread 9 Oct 2015, 16:22   #236
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Re: Santa Stats

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So people not to listen to:

Tiamata
Krypton
B-Butch3r

People you do listen to:

Nelito
Please dont bring me into this.

Santa changed what i said about, even if he responded in a childish and impulsive 'im not listening' demeanour. I give him far more brain cells than you and he has made a far more likeable set than you and tia have ever produced. Please dont ever associate me with a group you are a part of as that is the ultimate insult.
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Unread 9 Oct 2015, 18:49   #237
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Re: Santa Stats

What happend with the Sylph costs?
130 M
130 C
300 E?
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Unread 9 Oct 2015, 19:01   #238
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Re: Santa Stats

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Originally Posted by Shhhhhhh View Post
What happend with the Sylph costs?
130 M
130 C
300 E?
Its not the same stats dude, i think Tiamata said earlier in this thread that the statsmafia would not go with Santas stats
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Unread 9 Oct 2015, 19:07   #239
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Re: Santa Stats

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Its not the same stats dude, i think Tiamata said earlier in this thread that the statsmafia would not go with Santas stats
ok not sure how that could have been less helpful.

on here: http://speedgame.planetarion.com/manual.pl?page=stats it has always shown Santa's set. It still shows it now and he fixed the res stealers so they dont cap as much.
Only the res costs of the sylph is a bit unbalanced. Not sure if its intentional.
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Unread 9 Oct 2015, 19:08   #240
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Re: Santa Stats

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Originally Posted by Shhhhhhh View Post
ok not sure how that could have been less helpful.

on here: http://speedgame.planetarion.com/manual.pl?page=stats it has always shown Santa's set. It still shows it now and he fixed the res stealers so they dont cap as much.
Only the res costs of the sylph is a bit unbalanced. Not sure if its intentional.
http://game.planetarion.com/manual.pl?page=stats

Thats the stats thats been choosen.
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Unread 9 Oct 2015, 19:29   #241
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Re: Santa Stats

thats last rounds stats?
am i falling for some kind of trolling attempt?
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Unread 9 Oct 2015, 19:41   #242
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Re: Santa Stats

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Originally Posted by Shhhhhhh View Post
thats last rounds stats?
am i falling for some kind of trolling attempt?
Oh, sorry, you are basicly.

http://beta.planetarion.com/manual.pl?page=stats

There you go...?
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Unread 9 Oct 2015, 20:25   #243
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Re: Santa Stats

Appoco has choosen to slightly modify and older set of stats, R52. They will be live at 20:00 for in-game signups.
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Unread 9 Oct 2015, 20:49   #244
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Re: Santa Stats

Santa stats looked different, fun and not as crazy as BB's. R52 stats are conventional like M0rpheus's proposal. Maybe he being sometimes a **** answering people here made Apoc go for a different route?
Anyway, I would give a chance to Santa's. I think he spent a lot of work there.
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Unread 9 Oct 2015, 21:04   #245
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Re: Santa Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by fortran View Post
Santa stats looked different, fun and not as crazy as BB's. R52 stats are conventional like M0rpheus's proposal. Maybe he being sometimes a **** answering people here made Apoc go for a different route?
Anyway, I would give a chance to Santa's. I think he spent a lot of work there.
Well with a very open/offsenive stat set, you shouldnt make xan a favourable choice before adding the fact that they are cloacked.
His approach was nice, but the fact that the end product had a lot of people thinking xan was the way to go, killed his support within the statsmafia.
And no, before people start claiming im trying to put Santas set down to have mine runned, that is simply not the truth. I wanted a re-run of a old set, much due to i didnt get any feedback on my set.
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Unread 9 Oct 2015, 22:16   #246
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Re: Santa Stats

Only you thought xan was the best race. The rest of us can read stats and effs. Xan dies easy easy. They are perfect for cloak.
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Unread 9 Oct 2015, 22:17   #247
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Re: Santa Stats

And exactly you put mine down cause you are jealous I got all the feed back.
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Unread 9 Oct 2015, 22:31   #248
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Re: Santa Stats

Half this thread is pointless bickering. Not sure I'd call that 'feedback'.
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Unread 9 Oct 2015, 22:53   #249
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Re: Santa Stats

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Originally Posted by SantaCruz View Post
And exactly you put mine down cause you are jealous I got all the feed back.
This is not a e-penis contest.
I said earlier in this thread that i DID want a rerun, over my own set due to feedback.
I also said this set wouldnt be chosen due to how it was looking right now.
Your set got the most feed back, this is why i didnt want mine to be runned.
I thought your set was not suitable, this is why i didnt want yours to be runned.
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Unread 9 Oct 2015, 23:24   #250
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Re: Santa Stats

Seems wholly unfair to allow Santa (and others) get this set so far if it wasn't going to be picked. A shame because other than the odd person I think the majority of people thought they would be a good set and all six classes and five races people were torn between.
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