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Unread 6 Jul 2006, 14:22   #1
Radical Edward
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Why was pot made illegal in the UK

simple question, all in the title. well ok, I suppose I could ask when it was made illegal too. I was just wondering, since tobacco wasn't.
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Unread 6 Jul 2006, 14:27   #2
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

1928, when Britain became a signatory to the International Opium Convention. I imagine the usual reasons, it causes crime, it's not healthy, it's not deeply imbedded in our culture were used.
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Unread 6 Jul 2006, 14:32   #3
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Exclamation Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

www.ccguide.org.uk/law.php

Google is your **** buddy.
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Unread 6 Jul 2006, 14:34   #4
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

ffs, there's actually a Websense category specifically for marijuana so I can't even look at that link.

In answer to your original question, because a lot of people hate freedom. Just like the ****ing Websense people!
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Unread 6 Jul 2006, 14:36   #5
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

It's good that Websense is banning the whole Internet, keeping you focused on your work and being productive Dante !
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Unread 6 Jul 2006, 14:38   #6
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

Yeah I was blocked from looking it up by websense as well. Luckily I outwitted the system and used wikipedia!



PS I also smoked some pot at the same time.
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Unread 6 Jul 2006, 14:39   #7
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks
It's good that Websense is banning the whole Internet and keeping you focused on your work and being productive Dante !
I am the only person in my office at the moment. The rest of them are eating free sandwhiches at Brands Hatch under the vague pretence of having a staff seminar. Wankers.

In short, I am the most productive member of my organisation by such a long shot it makes me sick.

p.s. I dread the day when the PA Forums are blocked under the category of 'Paedo Filth'
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Unread 6 Jul 2006, 14:41   #8
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

It was made illegal because it's against God and against the bible.
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Unread 6 Jul 2006, 14:41   #9
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

My productivity factor is best measured by distance in kilometres from the decimal point.
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Unread 6 Jul 2006, 14:43   #10
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Exclamation Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
ffs, there's actually a Websense category specifically for marijuana so I can't even look at that link.
Websense seems to ban anything even remotely non-mainstream for some reason. They actually have a 'Gay Lesbian and Bisexual' category. I don't know what kind of Colonel Blimp types run it, but I wish they'd insert their 'software' up their arse and **** off while they're at it.
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Unread 6 Jul 2006, 14:50   #11
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dace
It was made illegal because it's against God and against the bible.
Dace is right, I remember this one bit where Jesus stopped some woman from getting stoned and I was like "oh man, what a self-righteous dick".
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Unread 6 Jul 2006, 15:42   #12
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Dace is right, I remember this one bit where Jesus stopped some woman from getting stoned and I was like "oh man, what a self-righteous dick".


true dat
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Unread 6 Jul 2006, 17:03   #13
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Dace is right, I remember this one bit where Jesus stopped some woman from getting stoned and I was like "oh man, what a self-righteous dick".
I thought the same thing... go us?
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Unread 6 Jul 2006, 19:04   #14
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

I don`t think there`s any chance of "Websense" where I work.
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 09:15   #15
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dace
It was made illegal because it's against God and against the bible.
I havent had the heart to break the news to a rastafarian
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 09:25   #16
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

I had Websense blocking out PA at my last job. Luckily the network of our client we did support for didn't have it, so when I used the VPN to connect to there servers I had more freedom.

I also heard from the other guys I worked with they usually just remoted to there home pc to get around Websense.

As for the topic, I think they should legalize pot, they could put a buttload of taxes on it, that way they either discourage it since it'd be legal and not as cool, or they'd at least get some more money to fix things like education and health.
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 09:26   #17
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

Quote:
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I don`t think there`s any chance of "Websense" where I work.
What, are you in porn?
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 09:42   #18
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

In the US, and across the western world, the prohobition against opium based drugs was because of anti-sino sentiments. In the US opium drugs and marijuana were not illegal until they were associated with migrant Chinese laborers who had emigrated to work on the rail roads and set up communities in cities. It's been a racist thing all along. Drug laws have always been about race. Look at cocaine, it was used predominately by wealthy white people for two or three decades, and nobody raised a big stink about it until a cheaper derivative based on (no pun intended) baking soda became associated with black inner city population. Next thing you know they raise a big MYTHICAL stink about crack whores, crack babies and declare a war on drugs and cocaine. It's always been a race issue, an issue about deviance in general. Alcohol is far more destructive and deadly and addictive and terrible than any of the other drugs that are banned. But because it's a white person's drug, it is not illegal. And most of the problems that are associated with illegal drugs occur because they are illegal.
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 09:46   #19
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

I agree with a lot of what you said ther but are you seriously trying to tell me that alcohol is more destructive than heroin?
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 09:47   #20
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

Quote:
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I agree with a lot of what you said ther but are you seriously trying to tell me that alcohol is more destructive than heroin?
If heroin were not illegal, government regulated, it would be far less destructive, and addicts could even have a semi normal life.
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 10:00   #21
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

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Originally Posted by s|k
If heroin were not illegal, government regulated, it would be far less destructive, and addicts could even have a semi normal life.

what holds for a lot of other illegal drugs simply doesnt for herion im afraid
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 10:15   #22
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

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Originally Posted by s|k
If heroin were not illegal, government regulated, it would be far less destructive, and addicts could even have a semi normal life.
I don't know about you dude but I don't know many recreational heroin users.
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 10:21   #23
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I agree with a lot of what you said ther but are you seriously trying to tell me that alcohol is more destructive than heroin?
Ehhm well I have to say something about this.

I know from experience that is it easier to stop using something that is illegal than something that is around everywhere.
Imagine you are addicted to eating (hoho, no pun intended etc.) - I saw a guy once on TV who was addicted to food/obesity - and he said:
īImagine saying to an ex-heroin addict he must take heroin three times per day - but only a little. Thatīs not gonna work.ī

Same with alcohol. It is so integrated into our life, into habits, even into cuisine and social events that it is virtually impossible to block it out, as where cocaine and heroin are easily kept out of reach by making a few tough decisions.
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 10:24   #24
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

Why is cannabis illegal when alcohol is legal?
Anyone like to give it their best shot?
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 10:40   #25
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

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Originally Posted by xtrasyn
Ehhm well I have to say something about this.

I know from experience that is it easier to stop using something that is illegal than something that is around everywhere.
Imagine you are addicted to eating (hoho, no pun intended etc.) - I saw a guy once on TV who was addicted to food/obesity - and he said:
īImagine saying to an ex-heroin addict he must take heroin three times per day - but only a little. Thatīs not gonna work.ī

Same with alcohol. It is so integrated into our life, into habits, even into cuisine and social events that it is virtually impossible to block it out, as where cocaine and heroin are easily kept out of reach by making a few tough decisions.
I'm not quite sure what your point is. I was saying that demographically speaking, even at the same legal levels, heroin is going to be more destructive than alcohol. I can understand people who have trouble not eating when, let's say, the food is in the fridge. However I don't understand people who have trouble not going out and buying a surplus of food. With heroin and alcohol it's even easier. Don't buy it at all.
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 10:41   #26
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
Why is cannabis illegal when alcohol is legal?
Anyone like to give it their best shot?
Because alcohol is produced by men in suits with briefcases and friends in high circles. Whereas pot is mostly produced by sandmonkeys who fund terrorism.
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 10:46   #27
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

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Originally Posted by xtrasyn
Because alcohol is produced by men in suits with briefcases and friends in high circles. Whereas pot is mostly produced by sandmonkeys who fund terrorism.
Interestingly enough this is also a consequence of alcohol being legal while cannabis is not.
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 10:53   #28
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I was saying that demographically speaking, even at the same legal levels, heroin is going to be more destructive than alcohol.
Oh yes my Good man, you are actually right. But what I was saying is that availability is a factor in deciding the destructiveness. For me itīs not strange that Afghanistan, Colombia and Marocco are third world countries, you know, with all the dope going around there.
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 11:01   #29
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I agree with a lot of what you said ther but are you seriously trying to tell me that alcohol is more destructive than heroin?
It's very difficult to separate the real-world effects of heroin today from it's illegal status, expense, etc. You can take a guess, but as there's very little evidence around concerning legal recreational use of heroin (or anything even vaguely like it) so I'm not sure what you'd be basing it on. Medically there are people who take heroin-esque drugs regularly and I'm not sure how "destructive" it is to them, but that's obviously entirely different.
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 11:03   #30
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

in colombia's case it's because we (the west) are keeping them poor for cheep coffee
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 11:08   #31
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I agree with a lot of what you said ther but are you seriously trying to tell me that alcohol is more destructive than heroin?
Physically speaking at least, that's perfectly true. Alcohol will do damage to your body that heroin can't even come close to.

Addiction wise, heroin is far more likely to catch you from a few tries. Even there though, alcohol is awfully dangerous. Once addicted to it it's incredibly difficult to stop. Or at least that's what a load of alky smackrats and a few doctors told me.
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 11:11   #32
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

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Originally Posted by xtrasyn
Oh yes my Good man, you are actually right. But what I was saying is that availability is a factor in deciding the destructiveness. For me itīs not strange that Afghanistan, Colombia and Marocco are third world countries, you know, with all the dope going around there.
This is an interesting subject actually. The Taliban actually significantly decreased opium production while it was in power. However once the Americans came in and removed the Taliban annual production increased by about 7000% in a space of four years.

That tangential point aside I think you have your causality waves back to front! We could put a quarter of a million acres under cultivation for heroin in Europe but the "rule of law", alternative economically beneficial arable prospects and other such factors indicative of a pre-existing first world country make the idea fairly irrelevant. Unfortunately I have no idea of relative levels of usage in afghanistan as opposed to the USA, for example, so I can't really say anything. You should also be careful over whether you mean heroin or all opiate-based drugs, different things entirely yo.
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 11:16   #33
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepflow
Physically speaking at least, that's perfectly true. Alcohol will do damage to your body that heroin can't even come close to.

Addiction wise, heroin is far more likely to catch you from a few tries. Even there though, alcohol is awfully dangerous. Once addicted to it it's incredibly difficult to stop. Or at least that's what a load of alky smackrats and a few doctors told me.
It's not a pure gram for gram equation though. Obviously, as dante mentioned, it's a fairly awkward equation. Something like addictive power times (adverse physical effects plus adverse socioeconomic effects, although these two are sort of linked).


Quote:
Originally Posted by dante
You can take a guess, but as there's very little evidence around concerning legal recreational use of heroin (or anything even vaguely like it) so I'm not sure what you'd be basing it on.
Well, we have recreational use of cannabis and I didn't include the word legal.
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 11:19   #34
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
It's not a pure gram for gram equation though. Obviously, as dante mentioned, it's a fairly awkward equation. Something like addictive power times (adverse physical effects plus adverse socioeconomic effects, although these two are sort of linked).
I agree entirely, I was just replying to your incredulity that it could even be possible that alcohol were more destructive (whatever that means in this context!). I dislike the way heroin is assumed to be evil evil evil and alcohol is seen as good by the same people. It's a very common kind of hypocrisy in our present culture though sadly.

Oh and for the record I'm still in favour of legalisation.
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 11:23   #35
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

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Originally Posted by Deepflow
Addiction wise, heroin is far more likely to catch you from a few tries. Even there though, alcohol is awfully dangerous. Once addicted to it it's incredibly difficult to stop. Or at least that's what a load of alky smackrats and a few doctors told me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia page on alcoholism
It has long been argued that alcoholics cannot learn to drink in moderation. The literature is heavy with research that has demonstrated the long-term failure of programs with such goals; despite this, research by the U.S. National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA) indicates that about 18% of such individuals in the US whose dependence began more than one year earlier are now drinking in moderation.
Urban myth possibility ahoy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepflow
I agree entirely, I was just replying to your incredulity that it could even be possible that alcohol were more destructive (whatever that means in this context!). I dislike the way heroin is assumed to be evil evil evil and alcohol is seen as good by the same people. It's a very common kind of hypocrisy in our present culture though sadly.
I don't see either as either, as you should well know. I'm pro the legalisation of all drugs regardless of which are "more serious". I argued against the introduction of the smoking ban despite the fact I don't smoke, don't like smoke and do drink. I'm not just some self-centred idiot presuming my poison is better than yours
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 11:27   #36
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

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Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
You can take a guess, but as there's very little evidence around concerning legal recreational use of heroin (or anything even vaguely like it) so I'm not sure what you'd be basing it on..
Surely we have people who use/used opiates for prolonged periods for medicinal purposes, and these casual users can still get addicted (isn't this why they rarely use opiates unless its a really bloody big deal, or they think you may die?)
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 11:32   #37
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Urban myth possibility ahoy.

I don't see either as either, as you should well know. I'm pro the legalisation of all drugs regardless of which are "more serious". I argued against the introduction of the smoking ban despite the fact I don't smoke, don't like smoke and do drink. I'm not just some self-centred idiot presuming my poison is better than yours
18% isn't a huge amount though, assuming that 82% are either still alkys or abstaining entirely.

What your views on legalisation are is irrelevant if you persist in the demonisation of heroin. I still hold to my opinion that the drug itself isn't the largest problem (though I would never say that you aren't in danger of addiction), just that if it were legal and cheap the problems stemming from addiction would be hugely limited compared to what they are now and once people realised that some of their contemporaries were addicted to it and continued a relatively normal life regardless then societies view might change to a more sensible one. If you insist on blaming the drug rather than society (your earlier statement about how destructive it is compared to alcohol is the only example I can think of, admittedly) then we (as a society) are never going to move forward on drugs laws.

Nevertheless, I'm terribly sorry if I offended you and I never thought you were that shit anyway so don't worry <3
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 11:32   #38
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

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Originally Posted by xtrasyn
Because alcohol is produced by men in suits with briefcases and friends in high circles. Whereas pot is mostly produced by sandmonkeys who fund terrorism.
them men in suits... What big business wants big business gets.

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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 11:35   #39
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I'm not just some self-centred idiot presuming my poison is better than yours
And that is probably why we love you so much.

I get your point entirely, but if all things would be: a) equally available, b) equally regarded, c) equally priced, Iīm not sure what would happen.
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 11:44   #40
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Well, we have recreational use of cannabis and I didn't include the word legal.
I know you didn't, but I did. My point is there's a very big difference between taking heroin when it's illegal and taking it in some hypothetical situation where it's legal. The former scenario means associating with some rather disreputable people, taking substances of almost random purity, having unstable levels of supply, hugely inflated cost and so on. Because of this, I don't think you can sensibly compare heroin with alcohol unless you're talking about in a society where alcohol is illegal or where heroin is legal or something like that.
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Surely we have people who use/used opiates for prolonged periods for medicinal purposes, and these casual users can still get addicted (isn't this why they rarely use opiates unless its a really bloody big deal, or they think you may die?)
This gets back to the definition of destructive I think. Being addicted to something is not something of a fixed level of danger/risk/harm. Being addicted to cheese and onion crisps while being annoying probably wouldn't lead to death or unemployment (unless the addiction consumed you). Being addicted to heroin now is very dangerous and harmful because of the cost, illegality, etc as discussed above. If however it was free, legal and in unlimited supply (and could be administered safely) then I'm not sure how destructive a heroin addiction would be. I'm sure most sane people would go to great lengths to avoid it, but lots of people inject themselves with insulin, or take 15-20 tablets a day and still live reasonably normal lives.
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 11:46   #41
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

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Originally Posted by Deepflow
18% isn't a huge amount though, assuming that 82% are either still alkys or abstaining entirely.
I'd view it as highly probable that a huge amount (at least as much as the 18% again) of that 82% are abstaining precisely of the existence of the "urban myth".
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What your views on legalisation are is irrelevant if you persist in the demonisation of heroin. I still hold to my opinion that the drug itself isn't the largest problem (though I would never say that you aren't in danger of addiction), just that if it were legal and cheap the problems stemming from addiction would be hugely limited compared to what they are now and once people realised that some of their contemporaries were addicted to it and continued a relatively normal life regardless then societies view might change to a more sensible one. If you insist on blaming the drug rather than society (your earlier statement about how destructive it is compared to alcohol is the only example I can think of, admittedly) then we (as a society) are never going to move forward on drugs laws.
I didn't say it was the largest problem. I said
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I agree with a lot of what you said there but are you seriously trying to tell me that alcohol is more destructive than heroin?
My problem was that a claim which is unproven, difficult to verify, running contrary to both popular and general medical opinion (I'm going anecdotal on this last point but what else can I do really?) was made. From my limited knowledge on heroin the biggest problems are the cost, the suppliers and the impurities. Apparently you can actually take some insane amount of pure heroin without ODing.

Obviously we can never be positive to be sure to be sure xtrasyn but when prohibition was introduced in the USA it's not like all the recreational drinkers vanished into thin air. (This is also slightly in reply to dante's first section in the post above this one.)
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 12:03   #42
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I didn't say it was the largest problem. I said My problem was that a claim which is unproven, difficult to verify, running contrary to both popular and general medical opinion (I'm going anecdotal on this last point but what else can I do really?) was made. From my limited knowledge on heroin the biggest problems are the cost, the suppliers and the impurities. Apparently you can actually take some insane amount of pure heroin without ODing.

Obviously we can never be positive to be sure to be sure xtrasyn but when prohibition was introduced in the USA it's not like all the recreational drinkers vanished into thin air. (This is also slightly in reply to dante's first section in the post above this one.)
What you say there is generally true, and I don't think I'll have any argument with you on the actual physical effects of the drugs. Your attitude now is pretty sensible so there's not really a need for me to reply

Like I said, my only problem was that you seemed to be buying into the polarisation of the heroin/alcohol debate and now it seems like you're not so that's
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 12:05   #43
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

i personally would like to say that I would be happy with legislation to make cannabis legal (or if you prefer taken off the controlled substances list)

Nothing in excess is good for you, least of all uncontrolled substances such as alcohol, caffeine, nicotene.

I think the people should decide what is right for them. If they dont want to take cannabis that should be there choice as well as if they do want to take it.

There are medical implications from taking drugs. You can't deny that, but i think its more a human rights issue.

Personally i hate funding criminals to have a toke.
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 12:10   #44
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Obviously we can never be positive to be sure xtrasyn but when prohibition was introduced in the USA it's not like all the recreational drinkers vanished into thin air. (This is also slightly in reply to dante's first section in the post above this one.)
True but if you ask me we would see a lot of coked up alcoholics. Those products really tap in to human emotion and desires and stuff.
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 12:19   #45
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

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Originally Posted by xtrasyn
True but if you ask me we would see a lot of coked up alcoholics. Those products really tap in to human emotion and desires and stuff.
I'm confused, do you mean if alcohol was banned we'd see a lot of alcoholics switching to coke?
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 12:22   #46
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

Ehhh no I was continueing on the hypothetic equalness of all drugs and substances, be it in price, availability or social regard.
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 12:29   #47
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

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Originally Posted by xtrasyn
Ehhh no I was continueing on the hypothetic equalness of all drugs and substances, be it in price, availability or social regard.
Okay, so your point is that if all drugs were, let's say, free everywhere with no social stigma attached, what exactly would happen?
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 12:32   #48
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

Cocaine use would soar, while alcohol use would not be less to say the least. Noone uses heroin out of choice so that would fall near to zero, while pot use would stay on the same level.*

*Given the price is not 1000$ a unit but let´s say 5 quid a dose.
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 12:36   #49
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

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Originally Posted by xtrasyn
Cocaine use would soar, while alcohol use would not be less to say the least. Noone uses heroin out of choice so that would fall near to zero, while pot use would stay on the same level.*

*Given the price is not 1000$ a unit but letīs say 5 quid a dose.
what? If the situation actually was as you've described it I don't see why cocaine use in particular would soar. It's not a particularly great drug. It's simply not true that no one uses heroin out of choice either. I can't actually imagining what your crazy reasoning for that could be
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Unread 7 Jul 2006, 12:38   #50
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Re: Why was pot made illegal in the UK

Heroin - very ****ed up, pricetag 15 euros.
Cocaine - Very ****ed up , pricetag 150 euros.

PS. Have you tried cocaine? More than once?

Other than that, I have moved in some weird circles in my life, and I know that noone ever starts with using heroin. It is something they slide into becuase they can not afford more expensive drugs.
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