Planetarion lacks inovation

[Zar]

edit: bah just noticed i spelt innovation wrong -

Don't move this to PD. Most people don't check that, especially those who don't play the game. Keep it here please - more people.

A few years ago, when Planetarion came out, it was one of a kind. The internet was fairly new in peoples lives. Online games of this type were quite rare.

Times have changed. Now the internet is widely spread. Online games are in their hundreds. MMORPG are the new "storm" of games that people are willing to pay for online. Text based games are facing huge competition from these types of games that not only look and feel better, but are actually at times more fun to play.

Planetarion was a fun game to play, and in some cases still is. However the biggest problem facing Planetarion today is its user Base. Its dwindling, it has been doing for years (ever since P2P came out). Ok that is expected, there will be a large drop from when the game is free to when one pays for it. However now the community base is so low, that i refuse to pay for a game where i'll only be competing with a few thousand players.

In the coming years these numbers will fall even more. Competition will increase. Everyone can see where this is going.... Planetarion will end up being too financially strapped (more so than it is) and the game will be totally disbanded.

I suggest the creators of this game resort to some good old American style tactics (those yanks can do something right). Make this game free again. Only for the time it takes to get a new thriving community. Go out of your way to make the community happy.

Of course PA costs to run, so eventually P2P will be required again. So in due course, ideally, there should be a user base that becomes large enough, that there will still be a significant number of people after a switch to P2P. If this is not the case, i'd give up on PA right there.

Repeat this action every few years, until the market for text based games dies out completely (which it will do eventually).

Just think, if you manage to attract a hundred or so thousand players, at least around 20-30% will stay after P2P. That is a godsight more than the amount of people playing at the moment.

Just a thought.... - i'm rambling. Just 2 more days till im back at uni...

Zar

[ChubbyChecker]

Obligatory "move to PD!" post

By the way, at the end of round 4 there were over 300k planets if I remember correctly. In round 5 where all planets were p2p there were about 20,000 planets. Most of that drop can be accounted for by people having multiple planets. After all, we'd all heard about people running whole galaxies for themselves. My point being even at its highest point there weren't that many people playing Planetarion.

Of those 20,000 planets in Round 5 how many were multiple planets? I'd say somewhere between 5 and 10 thousand

[Zar]

Originally posted by ChubbyChecker
Obligatory "move to PD!" post

By the way, at the end of round 4 there were over 300k planets if I remember correctly. In round 5 where all planets were p2p there were about 20,000 planets. Most of that drop can be accounted for by people having multiple planets. After all, we'd all heard about people running whole galaxies for themselves. My point being even at its highest point there weren't that many people playing Planetarion.

Of those 20,000 planets in Round 5 how many were multiple planets? I'd say somewhere between 5 and 10 thousand

Don't move it to PD. Most people don't check that, especially those who don't play the game. Keep it here please - more people.

Zar

[Leshy]

Originally posted by Zar
Text based games are facing huge competition from these types of games that not only look and feel better, but are actually at times more fun to play.

There are a few ways that in my opinion Planetarion and other text-based games can compete with MMORPG's. First of all, for a game like PA you do not need a state-of-the-art system. You don't need a fast CPU or an elite graphics card in order to run Internet Explorer. In addition, you can access Planetarion from anywhere where you have an internet connection, you don't need software installed beyond a browser.

If I'm trudging through the jungles of Venezuela, and right in the center I encounter a McDonalds with a 486 PC with internet connection, I can access Planetarion.

I suggest the creators of this game resort to some good old American style tactics (those yanks can do something right). Make this game free again.

The problem currently is that it's not up to the Creators. Planetarion is owned by Jolt, and they are the ones who make all the financial decisions. Spinner can't just decide to run free rounds, as he is not in control of that anymore. Besides, even when he still was, there are bills to be payed, and families to be fed.

Planetarion cannot continue as a free game, but as you've noticed yourself, people are not willing to either pay for anything on the internet, or when they are, they are not willing to pay €15 for Planetarion. As Spinner said, there are talks with Jolt due to see what can be done to address this issue, if PA is allowed to continue.

The amount of time it requires to build up a large userbase is too long to go without income, not to mention that it's not a secure plan to make a lot of expenses now without any guarantee that they will pay off in the long run. I personally believe that PA can have a future, but it will require more effort and trust than has been put into PA by it's current owners for this round.

[Structural Integrity]

I wouldn't say PA lacks innovation... it's more like there's too much competition in this genre.
There's only an x amount of people in the world willing to pay for a TURN BASED - TEXT BASED internet game. PA only attracts an certain percentage of these people, the rest goes to the competition. It's natural that this percentage drops when there's more competition.
You can do a few things to counter this:
- broaden your target audience, change genre
- innovate in gameplay

The simplest is the first option. Instead of being a textbased game, you can go 3D, you can go to real-time action. You will attract FPS gamers for the real time shooter stuff, you can attract flight-sim fans for the ability to fly in the space ships yourself, you can attract real-time strategy fans for real-time fleet movement, you can attract graphic whores by adding graphical starmaps.
That's one of the choices...

Or you can innovate in your genre to attract more players. This is much more difficult because you need to have very original ideas that haven't been seen before. You need something revolutionary.
But if something hasn't been revolutionary for the past few years it's the gaming industry. Everything has been done before... nothing is original anymore.

If I was PA-manager, I'd try to broaden the target audience instead of innovating with new game features. But this also means you need the development time/resources and knowledge to pull this off. Both of these seem to be lacking, because PAX has been created in a very short time, and I don't think Jolt/PA-team has the resources to pull a large software project off.



[edit]
Ofcourse, this is all about the game itself... there's also the marketting technical aspect. How do you deliver your product to your customer, how do you throw it into the market (price, advertising, etc). But with the competition being murderous, I don't think a low price or much advertising can attract many more players.
[/edit]

[elefant]

I did not know people here played PA

[CrashTester]

I have always failed to see why PA basically started from scratch again with each new round. It seemed pure madness to me.

It would be far better and less damaging if they had for example, earlier rounds of PA running for free. This would retain the userbase with which to try a sell their main product, in this case the all new PAX.

How many times has there been delay after delay in between rounds while they are tweaking or testing stuff? In the meantime it prompts people to find an alternative. If PA had a free alternative they wouldnt lose as many players to the competition.

I also fail to see how charging for each new round is beneficial to their cause. I personally would like to see an annual fee that entitles you to to play all rounds started for that year but your account expires on the annual due date. May people are students and have exams at specific times and so cannot dedicate enough time to PA so they will probably choose to leave rather than pay to play. If they had an annual account it wouldnt matter so much as they could just pick it up when they get more time and wait for the new round to begin. It all helps retain the user base.

And with an annual account, imagine how a player would feel if their account was to expire in the middle of a round that had turned out to be an exciting and prosperous one for them? It would make them think twice about not renewing their account and once they have paid it give the creators a better ide of how many will be playing and for what period, then they can devote resources to new features accordingly.

[Marilyn Manson]

Do something about the state of the forums for god's sake.

Either that or sell them off to BSkyB or somebody who may be in with a chance of making them somewhat good.

[CrashTester]

Originally posted by Marilyn Manson
Do something about the state of the forums for god's sake.

Jboy leaving worked wonders. He should have been pushed much sooner though.

[Structural Integrity]

Originally posted by CrashTester
I have always failed to see why PA basically started from scratch again with each new round. It seemed pure madness to me.

It would be far better and less damaging if they had for example, earlier rounds of PA running for free. This would retain the userbase with which to try a sell their main product, in this case the all new PAX.

How many times has there been delay after delay in between rounds while they are tweaking or testing stuff? In the meantime it prompts people to find an alternative. If PA had a free alternative they wouldnt lose as many players to the competition.

I also fail to see how charging for each new round is beneficial to their cause. I personally would like to see an annual fee that entitles you to to play all rounds started for that year but your account expires on the annual due date. May people are students and have exams at specific times and so cannot dedicate enough time to PA so they will probably choose to leave rather than pay to play. If they had an annual account it wouldnt matter so much as they could just pick it up when they get more time and wait for the new round to begin. It all helps retain the user base.

And with an annual account, imagine how a player would feel if their account was to expire in the middle of a round that had turned out to be an exciting and prosperous one for them? It would make them think twice about not renewing their account and once they have paid it give the creators a better ide of how many will be playing and for what period, then they can devote resources to new features accordingly.

Agreed on all points.
Though I can understand why they choose for a pay-by-round payment model (ie: more money anually, more security if PA goes tits up in that year)
I have suggested a pay-by-year model numerous times.

Now you mention the stats overhaul that has been almost each round... yeah... that was kind of weird. From a games perspective this CAN be suicide. Each round you have the risk of having numeric imbalance in your game.

I sometimes wish I could look into Spinners head, you know... I often wonder what he actually wants to make of PA in the future.
I feel that the creators (or crew people in the know) should give more information to the community.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally posted by CrashTester
Jboy leaving worked wonders. He should have been pushed much sooner though.

He wasn't pushed, he left of his own choice, and if we could, we would take him back instantly.

[Kurashima]

Originally posted by Zar


Planetarion was a fun game to play, and in some cases still is. However the biggest problem facing Planetarion today is its user Base. Its dwindling, it has been doing for years (ever since P2P came out). Ok that is expected, there will be a large drop from when the game is free to when one pays for it. However now the community base is so low, that i refuse to pay for a game where i'll only be competing with a few thousand players.

The very nature of the Internet is that websites rise and fall in popularity. Very few websites which were , 3 or 4 years ago, the hottest places online to be, are now still in that position. I know everyone says "Ooh , SA , its brilliant" ... but if you spoke to Lowtax a little, youd find hes still not making any kind of money off the site, and the people coming in are a small , self-percieved "Internet Elite" .... i think he realises its going to implode sometime soon, but at the end of the day, thats how all internet communities are. You think SA took it lightly when their Userbase went from 150,000 to 5000 when he introduced paying for a forum account?

In the coming years these numbers will fall even more. Competition will increase. Everyone can see where this is going.... Planetarion will end up being too financially strapped (more so than it is) and the game will be totally disbanded.

I dont think thats the case. I think a good game, with a solid , central userbase will always be around, even if its in a reduced format. PA evolves round on round, and as such will always attract new players.

I suggest the creators of this game resort to some good old American style tactics (those yanks can do something right). Make this game free again. Only for the time it takes to get a new thriving community. Go out of your way to make the community happy.

Im not sure if youre new to the internet, or if its simply that nobody ever taught you economics. The internet as it stands is such that if you cannot get free hosting and free bandwidth, you should not attempt to run any form of commercial site. You will lose money, and in PA's case, its money that isnt there to be lost. Better to pay a small fee to see the games survival than to demand something unrealistic and see your previous predicitons come true in a very short space of time.

Of course PA costs to run, so eventually P2P will be required again. So in due course, ideally, there should be a user base that becomes large enough, that there will still be a significant number of people after a switch to P2P. If this is not the case, i'd give up on PA right there.

Repeat this action every few years, until the market for text based games dies out completely (which it will do eventually).

Just think, if you manage to attract a hundred or so thousand players, at least around 20-30% will stay after P2P. That is a godsight more than the amount of people playing at the moment.

Just a thought.... - i'm rambling. Just 2 more days till im back at uni...

Zar

[Nodrog]

PA never really recovered from the hilariously bad decisions made during rounds 3 and 4. Also, the idea of playing like, 5 rounds completely p2p with no free game to attract new customers was pretty silly.

[Nodrog]

Originally posted by Kurashima
The very nature of the Internet is that websites rise and fall in popularity. Very few websites which were , 3 or 4 years ago, the hottest places online to be, are now still in that position. I know everyone says "Ooh , SA , its brilliant" ... but if you spoke to Lowtax a little, youd find hes still not making any kind of money off the site, and the people coming in are a small , self-percieved "Internet Elite" .... i think he realises its going to implode sometime soon, but at the end of the day, thats how all internet communities are. You think SA took it lightly when their Userbase went from 150,000 to 5000 when he introduced paying for a forum account?

While he obviously isnt rolling in millions of pounds from it, Lowtax has been living with SA as his full-time 'job' for like, almost 3 years now. Given that he's constantly looking for ways to expand the franchise, I doubt he's expecting it to come crashing down around his ears any time soon. Also, I dont really see why going from 150,000 people not paying money to 5,000 people paying money would be a huge financial loss, but ok.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally posted by CrashTester
Jboy leaving worked wonders. He should have been pushed much sooner though.

Try not to sound like a complete idiot about things you have no comprehension of.

[Structural Integrity]

Originally posted by Nodrog
Also, I dont really see why going from 150,000 people not paying money to 5,000 people paying money would be a huge financial loss, but ok.

It potentially is. It's a big risk that PA took too.
You begin with 150,000 people who are generating banner clicks and popup views, then you change to a payed system:
- you KNOW you're going to lose a lot of people
- How many people are willing to pay?
- How will the drop in users affect the service? (PA as a game became less playable due to the drop)
- Will competition be able to provide a better service for less money?

etc etc...

It's all in the big game of economics

[Woof]

I think you're preaching to the converted here on GD, i don't think anyone bothers playing the game anymore.
Infact i don't think anyone has bothered playing for several rounds now.

[Kurashima]

Originally posted by Structural Integrity
It potentially is. It's a big risk that PA took too.
You begin with 150,000 people who are generating banner clicks and popup views, then you change to a payed system:

I think by the time PA switched over from Popups to Subcription , he average popup generate around 0.01p. The bandwidth to generate the popup cost more than that.

[Cmdr_Cyrax]

There is too much writing on this thread.

[Leshy]

Originally posted by Nodrog
Also, the idea of playing like, 5 rounds completely p2p with no free game to attract new customers was pretty silly.

Not a case of sillyness. A case of necessity.

Originally posted by CrashTester
It would be far better and less damaging if they had for example, earlier rounds of PA running for free. This would retain the userbase with which to try a sell their main product, in this case the all new PAX.

I disagree. The older rounds were very unstable, buggy and imbalanced. Only the fact that it was new and free made it a success. Running it today would be like playing Pong -> Amusing for a short while for some who played the original, but in no way any good advertisement for a new product.

The idea of not paying per round, but per timeframe, however, is one that I personally like as well.

[Zar]

Originally posted by Kurashima


Im not sure if youre new to the internet, or if its simply that nobody ever taught you economics. The internet as it stands is such that if you cannot get free hosting and free bandwidth, you should not attempt to run any form of commercial site. You will lose money, and in PA's case, its money that isnt there to be lost. Better to pay a small fee to see the games survival than to demand something unrealistic and see your previous predicitons come true in a very short space of time.

i love the irony of this statement. i'm an economics student - so uhm, yes i have been taught.

Agreed the internet stands such that free hosting is near to impossible.

The tactics used by yank companies, and many successful companies throughtout the world - is that of temporary loss in the hope of future gains. Agreed the time period of free hosting will cost, but the return after p2p is re-introduced successfully will more than offset this.

If the cost of running is an issue.....suggest they import some cheap labour IT workers from india or somewhere (and sack everyone else ). Also host somewhere cheaper than current. (this is just a joke - dont take it too seriously)

Zar

I thought people stopped writing long posts about make believe space ship games a long time ago.

Piss off back to Russia fagchops.

[cnaw]

i'm sorry but i must say... BRING BACK HOLOROIDS...

*ducks for cover*

[CrashTester]

Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
He wasn't pushed, he left of his own choice, and if we could, we would take him back instantly.

I know, which is why I was saying he should have been pushed way before he had the choice to leave.

[CrashTester]

Originally posted by JonnyBGood
Try not to sound like a complete idiot about things you have no comprehension of.

What do I have no comprehension of?

I think he should have been kicked out of modship long before he had the option to leave, he was the worst mod this board has ever seen, imo.

[CrashTester]

Originally posted by Leshy
Not a case of sillyness. A case of necessity.
I disagree. The older rounds were very unstable, buggy and imbalanced. Only the fact that it was new and free made it a success. Running it today would be like playing Pong -> Amusing for a short while for some who played the original, but in no way any good advertisement for a new product.

The idea of not paying per round, but per timeframe, however, is one that I personally like as well.

You misunderstand, I dont mean run the early rounds as a game BUGS AND ALL. It didnt take them long to get the bugs fixed and make it stable. Im saying it would be beneficial to run earlier rounds (stable and not buggy) for free as a way to keep people interested while they are tinkering with their new features and also run a 'more advanced' product which will be P2P.

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally posted by CrashTester
Jboy leaving worked wonders.

Did it?!?

[CrashTester]

Originally posted by Marilyn Manson
Did it?!?

Yes, I believe it did. In fact the modding staff of today are far better than a year ago. It's just a pity we didnt get a new administrator too.

[roadrunner_0]

you know, am i one of the few user who never had a problem with JBOY? you know, what with me making normal posts rather than annoying smpam and therefore never attracting his attention and all???

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally posted by CrashTester
Yes, I believe it did.

On what basis?

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally posted by roadrunner_0
you know, am i one of the few user who never had a problem with JBOY?

The problem is that some people actually start believing the hackneyed stereotypes and charicatures, mixed along with all the innacuracy that time can create.

[CrashTester]

Originally posted by Marilyn Manson
The problem is that some people actually start believing the hackneyed stereotypes and charicatures, mixed along with all the innacuracy that time can create.

Alternatively, the problem can arise from his lack of any ability to deal with people professionally and as a reasoned representative of the then 5th Season.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally posted by Zar

You assume there's no competing FREE business. The gaming industry in particular works on momentum, and people aren't going to play on past the free round if they play casually (all the clones are much better for this, either because they have short time frames and fast ticks, or aren't so alliance dominated), or only semiseriously.

In addition, at crashtester, JBOY was great.

[Woof]

I think you're forgetting a fundemental problem with PAX.
That it's crap!

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally posted by Woof
I think you're forgetting a fundemental problem with PAX.
That it's crap!

I thought the beta was good. I can't comment on the main game, as I've logged in a single digit number of times.

[guest]

Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
I thought the beta was good. I can't comment on the main game, as I've logged in a single digit number of times.

I think the main problem with Planetarion is that people like you are chosen to play the betas. Ideally good beta testers would have helped create a game that they would want to carry on playing.

[Tactitus]

Originally posted by guest
I think the main problem with Planetarion is that people like you are chosen to play the betas. Ideally good beta testers would have helped create a game that they would want to carry on playing.

It's a bit difficult to help create a game when the beta testers are basically ignored. I've been involved in maybe a half-dozen PA beta tests over the years. I've always tried to provide useful feedback on new features and to offer suggestions and ideas for improving them, and for improving the game in general. I can't honestly say that any of my suggestions were ever taken. I wonder if many of them were even read?

Many of the problems in PA have been found during the betas--it's just that they were downplayed or ignored (and not counting of course the many features that got slammed in after the betas).

Gerbie's score exploit is but the latest example. He racked up a large score during the beta with very few roids using similar tactics. Spinner either didn't notice it or thought he could tweak the formulas after the beta to fix it. Either way, he missed it.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally posted by guest
I think the main problem with Planetarion is that people like you are chosen to play the betas. Ideally good beta testers would have helped create a game that they would want to carry on playing.

Never heard of 'I have a job now', 'I have other things to do now'?

Yes, I ADMIT IT! I WENT INTO THE BETA TO MAKE A BAD GAME FOR THE REST OF YOU BWAHHAHAHAHAHAHA.

[edit]

Considering the amount of time I spent playing 9, 9.5, I think I deserved some time off.
oh,

and I BEAT NODROG AT CHESS HAHAHAHAH HUBRISCAKES

[guest]

That is incredibly clever. It makes you wonder why Spinner has beta testing if he doesn't follow any advice given! It's actually made me smile inside.