Spinner

[cypher]

how many people are you expecting to loose as players for next round by making it private AGAIN?

[Legolas]

tbh I dont think he cares about you whinging bastard.

[hAl]

I wonn't play in a private round unless the random gals get massive advantages over private gals. And I really mean massive !!

hAl

[r72dk]

... or you could say "How many ppl has PA gained in this round from being private ?" or even "How many ppl will PA loose if it turns into random only ?"

Quite a dilemma so better wait and see.

[cypher]

Originally posted by Legolas
tbh I dont think he cares about you whinging bastard.

i can see why you are 'game support' with your constructive and usefull criticism.

now if you could spare 5 minutes to get your head out of your arse and look at the problem you'd know that basically the only random rounds have been most fun and once they started going there haven't been much complaints about stuff like not being able to play with friends. HUGE blocking wasn't needed nor done in those rounds. so if you could look at those kinda things and then comment again i'd be quite happy.

maybe another tip, get people in pa crew who actually are usefull for anything instead slagging off others without any thoughts if legolas really is pa crew like his siggie says.

and if Spinner doesn't care about what players have to say then there aint really much reason to play at all anyways is there?

p.s. this thread wasn't started as whinging.. but very glad some of the supposed helpers of pa turned it in to such threads.

[Cochese]

Where did he ever say r10 would be private?

[cypher]

Originally posted by Cochese
Where did he ever say r10 would be private?

having the choice between up to 6 players and filling em with randoms kinda gives something away?

[Cochese]

Seeing as galaxy setup hasn't been decided, and I'm personally pushing for full random, don't go off complaining about private galaxies just yet.

[cypher]

Originally posted by Cochese
Seeing as galaxy setup hasn't been decided, and I'm personally pushing for full random, don't go off complaining about private galaxies just yet.

better to complain about it now then after it's finalised. and all the ideas heard from him so far include some part of private thing as far as i've read

[Morden]

Originally posted by cyphie
having the choice between up to 6 players and filling em with randoms kinda gives something away?

im still hoping for a 3+3+3+6 route, but wether it happens or not is another thing.

[Torz]

Originally posted by Legolas
tbh I dont think he cares about you whinging bastard.

you're actually in some official position?





oh dear.

[Mushroom]

while i take Legolas into the corner for a minute and give him a good kicking
Apologies.
Now,
As for the galaxies in round 10, to my knowledge the layout hasn't been decided. Now what Spinner's intentions are, i don't know, but i suspect he will either:

a) Put it to the community
or
b) Put it as he feels right because the community doesn't know enough about the make up of round 10, and then see if/how it works.

As ever, a problem is that the community is split on this issue, and you can't please everyone at once. But Spinner does try, trust me

[Scouse]

Originally posted by Legolas
tbh I dont think he cares about you whinging bastard.

He should care what the customers think.

[hAl]

Originally posted by cyphie
better to complain about it now then after it's finalised. and all the ideas heard from him so far include some part of private thing as far as i've read

Where do you hear this stuff ??

hAl

[K03N]

Originally posted by Legolas
tbh I dont think he cares about you whinging bastard.

[Kloopy]

I think I could slip in a little unconfirmed thing, as long as you dont tell Spinner, that next round will, unconfirmed, be random.

Unconfirmed, of course.

[Prince]

*Goes to tell Spinner*

[Legolas]

Originally posted by cyphie
how many people are you expecting to loose as players for next round by making it private AGAIN?

Apologies about my responce, you caught me at a bad time. I took your question as an effectively flaming comment due to the slightly hostile nature it had been written in, and when Spinner had never said it was to be made private.

Incidentally I dont think that the discussion needs another answer, based on the replies we have already seen.

I will make a point to start reading this forum again.

[stargazingiris]

i think most people would agree that the two biggest problems confronting PA at the moment are
a. the dwindling number of players
b. blocking by alliances

yes these two things make the game a helluva lot worse, and in fact f*** boring. this is the worst round we have had so far (i am sure everyone agrees on that point heh), and is clearly a result of the fact that we have the smallest universe ever, and the biggest block ever (in terms of % of the universe).

looking at this logically, what effect does private gals have on these two factors?

a. dwindling players - Private gals tend to lead to higher skilled galaxies at the top who are better equipped to feed on smaller galaxies. This makes it incredibly difficult for new players to ever get a way into the game. The game simply isnt fun when you have incoming every time you get over 100 roids. This clearly means that these new players who are introduced to the game will not stay long, as they find that the time they have to invest in the game is simply not worth what they get out of it. Hence private galaxy rounds have helped create dwindling player numbers. Conversely, random gal rounds have created a more enjoyable experience for these new players - the universe isnt so top-heavy so the incoming isnt solely focused on these players.

b. blocking - again, private galaxies have a detrimental effect on the game in this aspect. in private gal rounds, most galaxies have galaxies of mixed alliances (simply as a result of galaxy targetting - if galaxies have only one alliance it is a lot harder to get them covered as they are getting all their defence from the same source). Of course in random rounds, galaxies also have mixed alliances... but it is random what these alliances will be. In private gal rounds, alliances tend to dictate to their members which alliances they will allow to be in their gals (which is to make sure that targetting is less complex, as its nigh on impossible to successfully hit gals if you can only hit half the planets due to being allied to the other half - this is the beginning of the blocking process ofc). And so you end up with the situation where there are only 2 massive blocks - we have seen the stagnant result of this type of manouvering. This will never happen in a random round, so blocking is made infinitely harder. There is actually no real reason to block in a random round, as it just reduces targets for you and doesnt give all that much advantage.

^_^

there is my case against private galaxy rounds. we have seen this round what a detrimental effect private galaxies has had on the game, and the universe was infinitely more stagnant than the previous round. for the good of all, and to give PA a chance in the future, PLEASE SPINNER MAKE NEXT ROUND RANDOM. (or at least a mix halfway like the 3+3+3+6 stated above).

[CrashTester]

I can see the need for both private and random galaxies, strictly choosing one over the other will lose players without question. What is needed is a compromise that most people are happy with but one that goes towards helping to reduce the problems of powerblocking and stagnation.

I posted a suggestion before reading this thread but it is fairly relevant. Have a squint - maybe its the compromise needed;

http://195.149.21.200/~paforum/showt...hreadid=163009

[storeslem]

Private galaxies are 100% essential if we are to have the new ETA-system.

[hAl]

Originally posted by CrashTester
I can see the need for both private and random galaxies, strictly choosing one over the other will lose players without question. What is needed is a compromise that most people are happy with but one that goes towards helping to reduce the problems of powerblocking and stagnation.

I posted a suggestion before reading this thread but it is fairly relevant. Have a squint - maybe its the compromise needed;

http://195.149.21.200/~paforum/showt...hreadid=163009

The people you lose without private galaxies and going full random might well be worth losing !!!

hAl

[randal]

quite early in round4 i already hoped private gals would only be a test or some kind of adventure or joke or something, sigh..

[aza1]

i love private gals, though i am not sure that they are in the best long term interests of pa...

[Cicada]

playing with your friends is fun, but random galaxies is essential to the prosperity of pa in the future

[Le Mauvais Moine]

I have no problem with privat gals if (like hal said) random gals get *massive* advantages like:

1) 3 times the number of player in gal (eg 10 players in privat gals vs 30 players in random gals)
2) Resource bonus for people in random gals (e.g. 300 income per roid vs 250 in private gals)

10 hyperactive players well connetcted into the community rock so much, that you really need *extreme* incentives to make people consider going random.

Moreover new people entering the game might find it more amusing not get bashed all the time and be able to meet some old timers whom they can learn from.

[CrazyConrad]

You are still playing with your friends if you go random, just not in the same galaxy (unless you get lucky)

Strange that anybody at all is totally against random really as its prolly the only way to keep pa somewhat allive, atm that is (we dont know what rnd 10 will bring us yet)

[Morden]

Originally posted by storeslem
Private galaxies are 100% essential if we are to have the new ETA-system.

I dont agree, personally unless they would be 100% pure alliance galaxies then it would not work.

otherwise we would have the same bull**** as now.

also there are certain things which will balance this out a lot more and make it very playable for both alliances and individual players alike.

the problem is most people look at the eta system and take it at face value without really looking into the playablity aspects of it.

[TheRat]

Originally posted by Le Mauvais Moine
I have no problem with privat gals if (like hal said) random gals get *massive* advantages like:

1) 3 times the number of player in gal (eg 10 players in privat gals vs 30 players in random gals)
2) Resource bonus for people in random gals (e.g. 300 income per roid vs 250 in private gals)

10 hyperactive players well connetcted into the community rock so much, that you really need *extreme* incentives to make people consider going random.

Moreover new people entering the game might find it more amusing not get bashed all the time and be able to meet some old timers whom they can learn from.

Those are not bad ideas actually.. But If I am not mistaken, larger numbers in random gals was removed due to it being so easy to spot, and private gals/alliances preferred to attack randoms.

I still like your ideas tho, even tho I would still go private.

-TheRat

[Le Mauvais Moine]

Originally posted by ThaRat
Those are not bad ideas actually.. But If I am not mistaken, larger numbers in random gals was removed due to it being so easy to spot, and private gals/alliances preferred to attack randoms.

After 72 ticks you know who is random and who's not regardless of if randoms contain the same or a different number of players than private gals.

[storeslem]

Originally posted by Morden
I dont agree, personally unless they would be 100% pure alliance galaxies then it would not work.

otherwise we would have the same bull**** as now.

also there are certain things which will balance this out a lot more and make it very playable for both alliances and individual players alike.

the problem is most people look at the eta system and take it at face value without really looking into the playablity aspects of it.

I'm actually very for this new eta system, but if the eta differences are so big as spinner have implied, alliance attacks will be useless. That leaves gal-attacks or random newb bashing, and well, random gals in a round with many new players doesn't actually promote gal-attacks.

However, I understand that all the new players would just be bashed if they simply end up in random galaxies without each other, so I'd believe 10 privs + 5 randoms per gal (or something like that) would be best.

[wakey]

I have to partially agree with the person who said it has to be private if the new ETA system is going to be used.

As random in r8 showed peoples attitudes have changed significantly. No longer is it Galaxy first Alliance and self second its now Alliance and yourself first and the galaxy second. This results in people calling in favours from those who can get there in time (mostly from their alliance) so they end up with 50k defence for an attacker whos only a couple of k while the rest of the galaxy gets no defence at all. Everyones going to need some friends who will help out in defence.

As someone else said what is needed is some kind of comprimise. The comprimise I have personally favoured for a while becuase it ensures you have some friends while still mixing the universe up is the "friends group" idea. Ive put this to spinner a number of times but its always been ignored But i think it should really be considered.

You simply allow players to get into groups of about 4 people. You then take these groups and mix them up with other groups plus any solo's you have to produce a galaxy. As long as the galaxies arent too small (ie 15 planets or larger )and groups arent too big you can get a good mix players example. with groups of 4 you can have 3 groups and 3 solo's in each galaxy

[Devo]

Has it actually been stated anywhere that round 10 will have galaxies?

Just a thought

[Zeus]

round 10 private?? Would be such a mistake, that I beleive the creators are aware off.

[wakey]

Originally posted by Zeus
round 10 private?? Would be such a mistake, that I beleive the creators are aware off.

R4, R5, R6 and R7 were a mistake being private but then again R8 being random was also a mistake. They waiting too long to switch back and by that time it was too late as theres too few players to really make random completly viable

Now unless spinner and co have some grand plan to find 15k new players for round 10 and with the new ETA system I really think a totally random round would be a mistake. We need a system like i described above which makes sure all players will have a couple of friendly faces around who can help you out becuase the new ETA is gonna make it hard for anyone outside your galaxy to really be much help to you thus removing any friends help.

Perhaps after a couple of rounds where the playerbase is rising and people begin to fal back into the old mindset of the galaxy being more important than the individuals then maybe the game will then be ready for a full random round.

[Zeus]

Originally posted by wakey
R4, R5, R6 and R7 were a mistake being private but then again R8 being random was also a mistake. They waiting too long to switch back and by that time it was too late as theres too few players to really make random completly viable

Now unless spinner and co have some grand plan to find 15k new players for round 10 and with the new ETA system I really think a totally random round would be a mistake. We need a system like i described above which makes sure all players will have a couple of friendly faces around who can help you out becuase the new ETA is gonna make it hard for anyone outside your galaxy to really be much help to you thus removing any friends help.

Perhaps after a couple of rounds where the playerbase is rising and people begin to fal back into the old mindset of the galaxy being more important than the individuals then maybe the game will then be ready for a full random round.

Those overly FOR private are the alliances members. Can certainly keep them happy with the alliance hardcoded and the "perks" this would bring. You simply do not need a private gal setup anymore as ETA should have an "alliance memeber" travel time. i.e IF defending an alliance member ETA -1 (rough example but u get the idea)

This off course should come with the change in combat system to allow a variant linked too alliances hardcoded and allow for alliances wars.

[The_Fish]

I want a mix personally, 2 groups of 5 priv and 5 randoms

[wakey]

Originally posted by Zeus
Those overly FOR private are the alliances members. Can certainly keep them happy with the alliance hardcoded and the "perks" this would bring. You simply do not need a private gal setup anymore as ETA should have an "alliance memeber" travel time. i.e IF defending an alliance member ETA -1 (rough example but u get the idea)

This off course should come with the change in combat system to allow a variant linked too alliances hardcoded and allow for alliances wars.

This is where your wrong though Zeus. As round 8 showed PA isnt the same as when we were random with the whole mentality of the playerbase being differnt. The majority of the playerbase seem to either fall into the "Me me me" mentality which is damaging for any galaxy that gets these people or into the "I'm here to play with friends and am not willing to get to know others"

We need a couple of intermediate rounds to allow people to still play with friends while introducing them to the mentality of galaxy first everything else second before moving to a totally random round. Without getting people used to ignoring differnces with the other galaxy members first we end up with a shambles round like r8 where the order of the day is bickering, backstabbing and self preservation which sours the whole aspect of random galaxies that the early rounds built up and cause people like me who were heaverly pro Random since Private galaxies were introduced to start to have second thoughts

[Colt]

Originally posted by The_Fish
I want a mix personally, 2 groups of 5 priv and 5 randoms

agreed, imo that is the best idea, mix both priv n random.

Random is only good if you end up in a decent gal, it is very annoying when you end up in a gal full of newbies/irc inactives..

[Shev]

Originally posted by Colt
agreed, imo that is the best idea, mix both priv n random.

Random is only good if you end up in a decent gal, it is very annoying when you end up in a gal full of newbies/irc inactives..

Like yourself you mean

[Colt]

yup

[Golin]

Originally posted by Torz
you're actually in some official position?





oh dear.

i gotta second that.

[Morden]

Originally posted by The_Fish
I want a mix personally, 2 groups of 5 priv and 5 randoms

Mix = winner

but i'd prefer a 3+3+3+6, that way no one side can dominate the galaxy so things are much more balanced and they have to learn to work together.