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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 14:11   #1
meglamaniac
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Do you believe in fate?
And if so, what do you mean by 'fate'?
I've come to the conclusion that the only definition of fate I'm able to accept is that fate is the outcome of other events such as peoples actions and choices, natural events (you know, earthquakes, eruptions, etc).

Any other opinions?
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 14:11   #2
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No.
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 14:14   #3
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Re: Do you believe in fate?
Quote:
Originally posted by meglamaniac
And if so, what do you mean by 'fate'?
O' course I do ya daft wazzock, I 'as two fate on t' end o' me legs!

Or to put it more seriously, no I don't. Free will all the way
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 14:17   #4
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if something happens to me then no, it was my free will and hard work

if something happens then, fate/god/theuniverseingeneral are a bunch of fcked up mother humpers that are against me.
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 14:32   #5
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"Fate" can only exist if one assumes/believes that time is constant and retroactivly unchangeable. Which I don't.
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 17:14   #6
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No,

Everything happens in one reality or other* and no one outcome is more 'proper' than any other therefore the concept of fate is irrelivent.

*can't be arsed to go into more detail. You either know what i'm talking about, or you don't.
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 17:15   #7
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No, I believe in causality.
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 17:16   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
No,

Everything happens in one reality or other* and no one outcome is more 'proper' than any other therefore the concept of fate is irrelivent.
What are these other realities of which you speak?
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 17:26   #9
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Other solutions to the probability wave function.
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 17:27   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
What are these other realities of which you speak?
You're asking the wrong sibling here.
Asking me to talk about physics is asking me to walk through a minefield.......

Get Jenny to talk about the double slit experiment and implicated proof of other realities.
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 17:30   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
You're asking the wrong sibling here.
Asking me to talk about physics is asking me to walk through a minefield.......

Get Jenny to talk about the double slit experiment and implicated proof of other realities.
I'm not sure how parallel universes is a 'rational' conclusion to draw from quantum mechanics, I've always seen it as pseudo-popscience hyperbole to be honest. I mean people dont actually beleive that parallel universes ontologically exist, right?
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 17:37   #12
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Why shouldn't they exist? There is absolutly no evidence to contradict them, no immidiate show stoppers, and plenty of evidence saying they might.
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 17:38   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
No, I believe in causality.
Quote:
causality has nothing to do with the real plenum. A fact simply is. Causality is merely an old-fashioned-postulate of a pre-scientific philosophy.
Robert Heinlein
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 17:40   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
I'm not sure how parallel universes is a 'rational' conclusion to draw from quantum mechanics, I've always seen it as pseudo-popscience hyperbole to be honest. I mean people dont actually beleive that parallel universes ontologically exist, right?
Leave me alone

Seriously though, i think it is possible, probably not probable.....
For example it is logically possible that you tear off all your clothes and run into the street, therefore the theory says it must happen in another universe, but you're not likely to do it are you?

However the double slit experiment does proove that there is 'something' out there reguarding other dimentions......





edit: Arrgh, I said I wouldnt discuss it!
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 17:42   #15
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 17:44   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
Leave me alone

Seriously though, i think it is possible, probably not probable.....
For example it is logically possible that you tear off all your clothes and run into the street, therefore the theory says it must happen in another universe, but you're not likely to do it are you?
I just dont see how it can currently be classed as a scientific theory rather than idle speculation... It seems more like some bizarro "New Age" interpretation of one of the weirder parts of science than an actual credible theory.
Quote:
Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax

However the double slit experiment does proove that there is 'something' out there reguarding other dimentions......
No it doesnt.
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 17:46   #17
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 17:48   #18
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well, yeah i guess.

I think every decision i make is predictable. Even when i try and do the opposite of what i think, its all predictable somehow.
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 17:50   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
No it doesnt.
Listen to Nodrog everyone! He knows whats true! Believe whatever He says for His word is Gospel!
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 17:52   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bunga
Listen to Nodrog everyone! He knows whats true! Believe whatever He says for His word is Gospel!
Go find me any article you want where a respected scientist claims that the double slit experiment proves that parellel universes ontologically exist. You have the entire internet at your disposal, I suggest you start here.
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 17:53   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
I just dont see how it can currently be classed as a scientific theory rather than idle speculation... It seems more like some bizarro "New Age" interpretation of one of the weirder parts of science than an actual credible theory.
You can say that about much of modern physics. Things like Hawking radiation, dark matter, cosmic strings...
They're all a bit precarious.

Quote:
No it doesnt.
This is why I didn't want to be drawn in..
So tell me, can you come up with another theory to explain the disapearence of the 'missing' photon in said experiment?

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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 18:01   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
This is why I didn't want to be drawn in..
So tell me, can you come up with another theory to explain the disapearence of the 'missing' photon in said experiment?
No. Does a gap in the knowlege of modern science make it acceptable for people to throw whatever idle whim they are currently entertaining into said gap and pass it off as 'real science', and if so why isnt "The Big Bang was caused by God" an acceptable scientific theory?
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 18:03   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
This is why I didn't want to be drawn in..
So tell me, can you come up with another theory to explain the disapearence of the 'missing' photon in said experiment?
The little yellow pixies took it away.

It's as valid (and proveable) as the other theory
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 18:12   #24
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Don't pixies only live in Cornwall?
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 18:16   #25
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Quote:
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Don't pixies only live in Cornwall?
That's green and red ones. The yellow ones are usually found wherever there are physics experiments. If only Heisenberg had known this...
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 18:16   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
No. Does a gap in the knowlege of modern science make it acceptable for people to throw whatever idle whim they are currently entertaining into said gap and pass it off as 'real science', and if so why isnt "The Big Bang was caused by God" an acceptable scientific theory?
Because accepted theory is what is created to explain evidence.

In this case, the evidence is a missing photon, so theories are dreamt up to explain this. As more evidence emerges (as it hopefully will in this case) the theory of multiple universes will have to be cropped, maybe even dumped.

The reason why God does not exist as acceptable theory is because there is no evidence. The theory was dreamt up and envidence needs to be found to support it.

I suppose it's generally a case of: which came first; the proof or the theory?
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 18:17   #27
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No, I believe in causality.
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 18:18   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
So tell me, can you come up with another theory to explain the disapearence of the 'missing' photon in said experiment?
Do you not think "bad experimental design" or "poor detection technology" is more likely than "it fell into another dimension"?

If not, why not?

(Just curious - not actually arguing per se).
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 18:19   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by sayonara
Do you not think "bad experimental design" or "poor detection technology" is more likely than "it fell into another dimension"?
Good call, Occam's Razor to the rescue \o/
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 18:21   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gayle28uk
Good call, Occam's Razor to the rescue \o/
Taran-tarraaa!!

"Onward, my trusty steed!"

Just like the Lone Ranger. We need an "Occam's Razor to the Rescue" Theme Tune.
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 18:21   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax

missing photon
Are you talking about the same double slit experiment as the rest of us? No photons go missing.
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 18:29   #32
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Originally posted by Nodrog
Go find me any article you want where a respected scientist claims that the double slit experiment proves that parellel universes ontologically exist. You have the entire internet at your disposal, I suggest you start here.
It took a while, but I found it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon...alleluni.shtml

I hope Neil Turok from Cambridge, Burt Ovrut from the University of Pennsylvania and Paul Steinhardt from Princeton are respectable enough for you.
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 18:47   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by queball
Are you talking about the same double slit experiment as the rest of us? No photons go missing.
Hmmm

I think in the experiment 2 photons collide with each other or something, and in the experiment there is only one photon of which the source is known. Therefore the photon on its own collides with an 'unknown' photon which is 'missing' in the sence that noone knows where its from.

'pollogies but i wrote in big shiney letters earlier that i wasnt an expert in the thing.
:eek:
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 18:51   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
'pollogies but i wrote in big shiney letters earlier that i wasnt an expert in the thing.
:eek:
You've got me cheering you on from the sidelines if that helps. You're doing great
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 18:56   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
No,

Everything happens in one reality or other* and no one outcome is more 'proper' than any other therefore the concept of fate is irrelivent.

*can't be arsed to go into more detail. You either know what i'm talking about, or you don't.

Read hawkings 'the universe in a nutshell' if you want to know what he is on about.
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 18:59   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by iain50
Read hawkings 'the universe in a nutshell' if you want physicists the world over to hate you.
I fixed it for you
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 19:25   #37
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i liked it, i did 1 year of my physics A level, and found it easy to read, so someone who knows a bit would find it very easy.


you read it?
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 20:42   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by iain50
i liked it, i did 1 year of my physics A level, and found it easy to read, so someone who knows a bit would find it very easy.


you read it?
I read Brief History of Time (same reaction from the sci community though), most real physicists (i.e. people who know more than me or you) hate him for his pop-sci versions of things. They're like the model of the atom you get taught for GCSE chemistry, grossly oversimplified tp the point where it bears no real resemblance to the truth. Let's face it, we'd need several years of advanced maths to be able to even begin to understand the equations necessary for even a basic understanding.
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 20:48   #39
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All the ****ed up **** is fate, all the groovy **** is under my control .
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 21:21   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gayle28uk
most real physicists
Hawking's a nutter.

PS: Laplacian Determinism went out with Quantum Theory.

PPS: Big it up for nod, as empirically there are no // universes, and therefore don't scientifically exist.

PPPS: Wish I had seen this thread earlier.
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 21:32   #41
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No, I believe in causality.
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Unread 5 Feb 2003, 21:40   #42
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I don't want to believe in fate.
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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 13:07   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gayle28uk
You've got me cheering you on from the sidelines if that helps. You're doing great
Thanks

You wearing a cheerleaders outfit, pompoms and a skirt so short it tests the laws of physics?

p.s. Nod seems to have vanished...
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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 13:11   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
p.s. Nod seems to have varnished...
He's become a furniture restorer.
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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 13:38   #45
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He's become a furniture restorer.
heh
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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 13:39   #46
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It's a bit hard to believe in free will, tho i try. but fate is nonsense.

Quote:
Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
You can say that about much of modern physics. Things like Hawking radiation, dark matter, cosmic strings...
They're all a bit precarious.
They are a bit precarious because they are predictions, using established theories, of tangible things for which the evidence is either non-existent or rubbish. this is science.

Whereas many universes, M-theory, the p-brane thingy etc. appear to rest on developing theories which don't even predict anything at odds with the old ones yet. this is metaphysics.
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Unread 6 Feb 2003, 13:39   #47
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im next to a DF3 guy

i dont have any weapons

fate sucks
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