[LONG] I am living again like there is no tomorrow

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by I am Idler

Yeah, I just think its soooo sexy to burst new hymens on girls who have no other option but to ride bicycles.

How the **** did you ever become an admin?

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by TheRat

The judgment is made by her age, not her individual. Let me do a little monologue for you.

<Guy22> Hi there girl16, you are cute!
<Girl16> oh my, a 22 year old is interested in ME?(??????) *Blush*
* Girl16 gets a crush
<Guy22> Come over to my place tonight, we'll watch a movie and have fun
<Girl16> Oh how can I say no to a 22 year old?!!!!!!!!!
* Girl16 comes over
* Guy22 takes serious advantage of the situation

As has been pointed out many times before individuals mature at far different rates. It's hardly like there are no recorded instances of 16 year olds becoming involved in relationships with people far older than them. Obviously it's probably statistically less likely that these relationships will "work" but it's definitely not ruled out. Surely if her parents find the current situation acceptable we should trust to their judgement ahead of sweeping generalisations?

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by I am Idler

Yeah, I just think its soooo sexy to burst new hymens on girls who have no other option but to ride bicycles.

If the mode of transportation was a criterion, dutch girls would be virgins until they were 24.

[Ice-Lady]

I certainly don't mean to judge anyone at all. I am talking about the age difference not the individual people involved.

[TheRat]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Surely if her parents find the current situation acceptable we should trust to their judgement ahead of sweeping generalisations?

I dont really need the parents opinion to say if its moraly wrong.

[Ice-Lady]

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

(P.S, this is not to imply that Ice Lady is a man. She just happened to be a girl posting on a man's forum.)

It's a male only forum now???????


Missed that one happening!

[Marilyn Manson]

It's only "morally wrong" to people who aren't getting any.

[TheRat]

Originally Posted by Ice-Lady

???????

What is it with females and excessive question/exclamationmarks?

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by Ice-Lady

It's a male only forum now???????

Didn't you see the sign?



It said NO GRLZ ALOWD IN TH TRHEHOSE

[Ice-Lady]

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

It's only "morally wrong" to people who aren't getting any.

Erm.. no, it's not.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by TheRat

I dont really need the parents opinion to say if its moraly wrong.

I think the problem here is that you don't know the individuals in question. You might say "on average" x or y situation might be wrong, but without knowing the specifics of an individual case your moral judgement is going to be limited at best. This is why stereotyping by age / race / gender / etc is often unhelpful when forming final judgements on things.

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by Ice-Lady

Erm.. no, it's not.

Are you getting it on with a 16-year old girl? :eek:

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by Ice-Lady

Erm.. no, it's not.

The prosecution rests.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by TheRat

I dont really need the parents opinion to say if its moraly wrong.

But what is the reason for it being morally wrong in the first place? It's surely not just the fact she's below 18, there has to be something that you're associating with this age which makes it morally wrong. Surely this is the mental competence boundary, and surely this is not entirely dependent on age and surely her parents are better placed to comment on whether or not she is mentally capable of taking part in this relationship?

[Ice-Lady]

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

The prosecution rests.

Happily married for the last 5 years... so yeah, you're right...



LOL

[Marilyn Manson]

I could be really nasty at this point but I'm only having a bit of fun, so instead I'll just say 'Seperate beds, eh?' and call it a night.

[TheRat]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

But what is the reason for it being morally wrong in the first place? It's surely not just the fact she's below 18, there has to be something that you're associating with this age which makes it morally wrong. Surely this is the mental competence boundary, and surely this is not entirely dependent on age and surely her parents are better placed to comment on whether or not she is mentally capable of taking part in this relationship?

Its moraly wrong since he is in a position to abuse the age difference. As TomKat mentioned, when he was 16 all the older boys were pulling the young fit girls. Surely this is because young girls are generaly attracted to older boys. This again means that an older boy can abuse his age to get a young girl to do stuff she normaly wouldnt do - be it intentional or not. She will also be on a different stage of life than the oldr boy, and would most likely be better of with someone her own age/stage of life. I would have no problem with an 20 year old and a 26 year old, same age differece but mostly the same stage of life and the same intelectual level.

[I am Idler]

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

How the **** did you ever become an admin?

I used to be polite and unbiased.

Also I took a more professional approach towards various subjects, and was careful not to offend anyone.

I did my time and helped the community out for a long time, so I feel Ive done atleast something for PA in the past.

These days Im more of a person who has his friends and makes no attempt to create new ones.

I am quite sure that will change eventually and Ill revert back to the likeable figure I used to be.

[Appocomaster]

On the one hand, I know a relationship that started when the girl was 16 and the guy was 38, and now 1-2 years later she's telling close friends about the tricks she does with golf clubs, so 22 isn't as huge a difference.
On the other hand, both males and females assume that after they've hit puberty they're suddenly adults. Mentally everyone changes a hell of a lot when they're a teenager, not just because of these hormones flooding their system.

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

Tbh, I think most people in this thread are ****ing hypocrites. If you lot were horny and you were presented with a fit girl who was 16 or 17 then you'd knob her just like the other 99% of the male hetrosexual/bi population of Planet Earth.

Doesn't mean to say it's right!
One of the things you learn as you grow older (unless you spend all your time online jacking off to porn in room) is self control.
I know a lot of the more developing-world countries have people with children in their late teens / early 20's, but generally they're the same age, and that's what they've been brought up thinking is right: to go through adolescence, get married, have kids, and work. Their children are almost their retirement fund.

Just because people think that teenagers can be 'mentally mature' at 16 etc, even girls, generally they're not. People change a lot. I've been in chat rooms since 13/14, and even when I started going in, people were assuming I was up to 10 years older - including one who thought I meant 40 when I typed my age as "14". I've changed a lot mentally since then.
A 22 year old generally changes less. I think the issue is that over the next few years, the relationship between a 16 and a 22 year old, the 16 year old will change a lot more (and be a lot more influenced) than/by the 22 year old. Also, tbh girls often get more invovled than boys, especially at the beginning of a relationship that looks serious. I don't think anyone thinks in itself it's the age gap - many couples have happily survived with that sort of age gap. It's the fact that they're still far more easily influenced, and even without at first knowing or meaning to the situation can become unpleasant.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by TheRat

Its moraly wrong since he is in a position to abuse the age difference. As TomKat mentioned, when he was 16 all the older boys were pulling the young fit girls.

Personally I didn't find that this happened that often in my social group.

Surely this is because young girls are generaly attracted to older boys.

Well they'd be attracted to something that they had, be this perceived or actual.

This again means that an older boy can abuse his age to get a young girl to do stuff she normaly wouldnt do - be it intentional or not.

What do you mean by this? Anal? Personally I find it a healthy attitude to leave consenting adults to do what they want in the bedroom. One could apply your reasoning to most relationships, someone rich with someone poor for example. Should we arrange relationships based on annual income? I would sincerely hope not.

She will also be on a different stage of life than the oldr boy, and would most likely be better of with someone her own age/stage of life. I would have no problem with an 20 year old and a 26 year old, same age differece but mostly the same stage of life and the same intelectual level.

Different stages of life? Life doesn't occur in random leaps and bounds. There's nothing definite saying that a 16 year old is mentally incapable of participating in a relationship with someone older. Yes, there are problems that might arise however these problems are not a necessary result of the fact that a 16 year old is involved in a relationship with a 22 year old.

[MrL_JaKiri]

I think this thread needs to know the second definition mentioned. And then understand how it applies to making definite statements based around general trends.

[Game^]

Hans no matter what age she is she sounds quite "classy"

Firstly she let you finger her while she was "on" after knowing you a week? Thats just wrong mate :/

Secondly shes been out with a 28 year old? I wonder why that relationship didnt work out, and i wonder why shes ever so easy as proved by point one.

Sorry but.....

[TheRat]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Personally I find it a healthy attitude to leave consenting adults to do what they want in the bedroom.

I completely agree, but there is one major difference to our opinions - I wouldnt call a 16 year old girl an adult, which happens to be the main reason for my opinions.

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by Appocomaster

One of the things you learn as you grow older (unless you spend all your time online jacking off to porn in room)

[JonnyBGood]

Sexually promiscuous people are like animals.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by TheRat

I completely agree, but there is one major difference to our opinions - I wouldnt call a 16 year old girl an adult, which happens to be the main reason for my opinions.

Hold on man, that's circular reasoning. You're justifying your reasoning for saying she's not an adult with something that arises from the fact she's not an adult.

[TheRat]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Hold on man, that's circular reasoning. You're justifying your reasoning for saying she's not an adult with something that arises from the fact she's not an adult.

Uhm, errr. English?

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by TheRat

I completely agree, but there is one major difference to our opinions - I wouldnt call a 16 year old girl an adult, which happens to be the main reason for my opinions.

Were it not for the fact that all evolutionary phases are transitionary phases, I would call this phase a transitionary phase (not that it isn't, just that it isn't remarkable).

Hey, that sentence was going places.

I digress.

"18" was chosen as a "boundary" age because it was decided that a high enough proportion of people were significantly mature at that age that it would be an acceptable minimum age for one to be called "adult", as setting the age limit higher merely serves to reduce the freedom for a larger number of individuals than lose potential choices for others due to their own inability to make choices at that age. It used to be 21, we're gradually getting closer to it being 16.

[edit]

English isn't a particularly well designed tool for those who wish to make points that take in a variety of factors.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by TheRat

Uhm, errr. English?

You're saying that she's not an adult because she's not an adult.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A688287

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by TheRat

Uhm, errr. English?

You're saying that she's not capable of taking part in this relationship because she's not an adult. You're saying that she's not an adult because she's not capable of taking part in this relationship (ie she can be "exploited"). This is circular reasoning.

[TheRat]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

You're saying that she's not an adult because she's not an adult.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A688287

Well, I might have said it in a stupid way - but it doesnt make it less correct. A 16 year old girl is not an adult. She might be physically, but not mentally. She is not prepared for the emotional factors that comes with dating/sleepign with a 22 year old. She would be far better off with someone her own age, someone whos still in the age where you are curious about the other sex's body, and are still experimenting. A 22 year old will (generaly) have gone through that stage a long time ago - and is just looking for the satisfaction of the sexual act, hence why I say its easy for him to take advantage - be it intentional or not.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by TheRat

Well, I might have said it in a stupid way - but it doesnt make it less correct. A 16 year old girl is not an adult. She might be physically, but not mentally. She is not prepared for the emotional factors that comes with dating/sleepign with a 22 year old. She would be far better off with someone her own age, someone whos still in the age where you are curious about the other sex's body, and are still experimenting. A 22 year old will (generaly) have gone through that stage a long time ago - and is just looking for the satisfaction of the sexual act, hence why I say its easy for him to take advantage - be it intentional or not.

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

I think this thread needs to know the second definition mentioned. And then understand how it applies to making definite statements based around general trends.

[Phang]

Originally Posted by TheRat

Well, I might have said it in a stupid way - but it doesnt make it less correct. A 16 year old girl is not an adult. She might be physically, but not mentally. She is not prepared for the emotional factors that comes with dating/sleepign with a 22 year old. She would be far better off with someone her own age, someone whos still in the age where you are curious about the other sex's body, and are still experimenting. A 22 year old will (generaly) have gone through that stage a long time ago - and is just looking for the satisfaction of the sexual act, hence why I say its easy for him to take advantage - be it intentional or not.

so in other words, she should date someone her own age because she prefers it?

seems at odds with the facts mang.

unless you meant she's a virgin, which has already been disproved.

[Minty]

Originally Posted by Leshy

Welcome to the world where most 16-year old girls are dating and shagging someone who is 20+.

I shagged a 16 year old wehn 21.

Nothing wrong with it \o/

Providing she has the frame of mind for it

[Appocomaster]

Originally Posted by TheRat

I completely agree, but there is one major difference to our opinions - I wouldnt call a 16 year old girl an adult, which happens to be the main reason for my opinions.

I totally agree that, even though girls do mature (both physically and mentally) generally before boys, a 16 year old girl isn't an adult.

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Hold on man, that's circular reasoning. You're justifying your reasoning for saying she's not an adult with something that arises from the fact she's not an adult.

How about I say that I think that a 16 year old girl isn't an adult, and hasn't had time to fully develop her views on many important relationship issues. Although I missed out most of it at school (being a geek etc ), most guys and girls around 14-15 started paying more attention to each other and 'going out' which generally meant the occasional kiss, and as you got older it added fondling and so on (i lived in the south of England. Either I really wasn't paying attention, or from what I can gather the further north you go, generally the more you subtract from those values.)
However, due to commercialism etc and such a pro sex society, more and more people are tending to almost get peer pressured into having sex earlier, which I think is a bad thing, but is probably a side issue from the current topic.
Because they're more trying to jump into serious relationships, than playing around, they don't have the relationship experience, which gives them a different perspective and generally all they have to go on is what they see in the media and personal experience gathered from those around them. I don't think they've finished 'growing up' enough to form a proper relationship with a 22 year old - in fact, i'd think it better for the 22 year old to be a supportive friend until the girl was 18-20, but much more developed.

On the case in hand, I think the girl seems to like a more experienced guy, and wonder if she's still a virgin? tbh she does seem to feel she's mature enough and want to leap on people, but I'm not sure that's possible.


Is that still circular reasoning?

[Minty]

Originally Posted by Flavius

Generally speaking, 16 year olds are unable to take correct decisions.

And most adults (say 21 for arguements sake) do?

Regarding the experience, I think there are better ways of acquiring decision making abilities than to go shagging 20+ year olds when you're 16.

Best to go with someone expereinced and in the "know how" rather than a silly teenage fumble where kids are created?

[Danae]

My mum was 16 when she started going out with my dad..... he was 27

4 kids and married 25 years

[TheRat]

Originally Posted by Phang

so in other words, she should date someone her own age because she prefers it?

Im saying she would be better of with someone who is at her own stage of life. And for those saying there is no stage of life; this is what I mean by that.

A 16 year old is usualy at the stage where s/he is getting sexual curious, and might have experimented a bit. Statistics says she is still a virgin - tho this might not apply to this case. She will be curious about the body of the other sex - as much as her own. She does not have a lot of experience yet. Also, she will be on another level intellectualy. A 22 year old would normaly be a lot smarter, and have other interestest regarding conversation than a 16 year old. A 22 year old might be doing his degree at a university, while a 16 year old has barely started high school (going by norwegian standards at least). A 16 year old normaly lives at home with her parents, has no job and gets money from her parents - a 22 year old would have his own apartment, a part/full time job and be very much independant.

All the factors makes it somewhat impractical for a relationship to me made between the two - and the chances of it failing miserably is very high.

[jerome]

This really isn't a black and white area. The morality of the issue depends on a variety of factors so there's no point condemning Theam until we know more about the girl. To be blunt with the facts at hand right now, Hans really wants 'some' and she's a bit of a slut. Though since from what we know of Theam, he is a bit immature (compared to most 20+ yo's) so it's understandable that he could find her compatible as a partner in a relationship though I suspect the girl just wants the boasting rights of being with someone older.

[Dead_Meat]

The wife is 6 years younger than I am.

This puts me in the same league as Hans.

OH THE SHAME

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Appocomaster

How about I say that I think that a 16 year old girl isn't an adult, and hasn't had time to fully develop her views on many important relationship issues. Although I missed out most of it at school (being a geek etc ), most guys and girls around 14-15 started paying more attention to each other and 'going out' which generally meant the occasional kiss, and as you got older it added fondling and so on (i lived in the south of England. Either I really wasn't paying attention, or from what I can gather the further north you go, generally the more you subtract from those values.)
However, due to commercialism etc and such a pro sex society, more and more people are tending to almost get peer pressured into having sex earlier, which I think is a bad thing, but is probably a side issue from the current topic.
Because they're more trying to jump into serious relationships, than playing around, they don't have the relationship experience, which gives them a different perspective and generally all they have to go on is what they see in the media and personal experience gathered from those around them. I don't think they've finished 'growing up' enough to form a proper relationship with a 22 year old - in fact, i'd think it better for the 22 year old to be a supportive friend until the girl was 18-20, but much more developed.

On the case in hand, I think the girl seems to like a more experienced guy, and wonder if she's still a virgin? tbh she does seem to feel she's mature enough and want to leap on people, but I'm not sure that's possible.


Is that still circular reasoning?

No, that's what mark was talking about here. Surely you can see yourself that when you have to use words like "most" and "generally" in your reasoning you're not going to come out with a necessary conclusion?

[pig]

Originally Posted by Dead_Meat

The wife is 6 years younger than I am.

This puts me in the same league as Hans.

OH THE SHAME

whens your 16th Birthday Dead_Meat?

[Naps]

Seriously now dont praise the dimwhitted fool for having sex with a child! yes 16 is classed as a child cant drink cant get married without parental consent still gets CHILD tax credit till 18 still gets child benefit if still in school.

everyone should be taunting the jolly rogering child shagger for not been able capable willing to go out and find someone old enough to vote!

[TeK]

Rep points please

[Dead_Meat]

Originally Posted by pig

whens your 16th Birthday Dead_Meat?

In millenia or eons?

[Appocomaster]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

"18" was chosen as a "boundary" age because it was decided that a high enough proportion of people were significantly mature at that age that it would be an acceptable minimum age for one to be called "adult", as setting the age limit higher merely serves to reduce the freedom for a larger number of individuals than lose potential choices for others due to their own inability to make choices at that age. It used to be 21, we're gradually getting closer to it being 16.

tbh I don't see why it's fading - the only reason is public pressure, which is caused by the media.
Blame the media for everything!
some guys still don't fill out and stop growing until they're 20/21.
The problem with lowering the age is that more and more people feel they're mature enough to make decisions, while going through the teenage phase of rebellion, and so get advice from people generally their own age, who equally have no experience. As the age is getting closer and closer to 16, 13-15 year olds are starting to think hey c'mon we're old enough to make decisions. And tbh, they aren't. With the age being 18-21, at least the couple of years below were getting towards being mature and experienced enough - especially 21. I know I'll get accused of "repressing" the younger age groups, but why else do more and more english people at 12-16 get drunk / alcohol poisoning? they think they should, because they're mature enough and can cope with it.

[TheRat]

Originally Posted by Minty

And most adults (say 21 for arguements sake) do?

They are better equipped to do so - and to deal with the consequenses of making the wrong decision.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

No, that's what mark was talking about here.

You mean here.

[Appocomaster]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

No, that's what mark was talking about here. Surely you can see yourself that when you have to use words like "most" and "generally" in your reasoning you're not going to come out with a necessary conclusion?

I was giving a more general point and not talking about the case in hand, until the bit at the bottom.

[TeK]

just have sex wit her and get rid of her. There is no 16 yr old that can have a healty relationship with a 22 yr old. Its just to far of an age gap at this time. IF its 20 and 26 thats different. But you have 2 totally different groups of friends. Does she look 16? and do you look older then 20, because if its like that then it will be weird.