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Unread 9 Jan 2007, 22:30   #1
Deffeh
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Liverpool

Im not going to say the score because it changes every couple of minutes. Arsenal are scoring quicker than an Australian batsman.

I think the game and the result highlights a few things;
  1. Benitez's priorities are beyond skewed. With the exit in the FA cup, barcelona in the champions league (10-0 anyone) and the premiership chase dead in the water by october, he chose to play a weakened reserve team for the only competition they could even possibly win this season
  2. Arsenal's reserves and youth players are twice liverpools reserve players. When an arsenal player or two in the one position (eg, left back) gets injured, a young boy comes in and does well - not only because arsenal have quality players - but because wenger plays them in a quality system, everyone knows where they are meant to be playing. Liverpool, dont have a clue. You barely have enough confidence in agger, gonzales etc, never mind the likes of peltier, guthrie, paletta.
  3. A rough estimate of recent transfer fees. Arsenal over the last 4 seasons : £36.5 million. Liverpool over the past 4 seasons : £92 million (if you include cisse even though houllier really made that signing). Well over double the arsenal total, for roughly the same output in the premiership and nowhere near the same quality of football.
  4. Since the 'Chelski' era began in 2003/2004 (and since Benitez came to england) which is really a watershed for the premiership, Liverpool have beat Chelsea only once in the premiership (1-0 cheyrou pre-mourinho), they have one win over man utd 1-0 at old trafford (a danny murphy penalty) and hold 2 one goal victories over arsenal in 4 years. that isnt the form of a team that is anything other than the FOURTH BEST team in the league. Middlesborough and bolton have better records against the top sides
  5. The fans dont deserve it. All i can hear is you'll never walk alone and 'your not singing any more' now gerrard has pulled it back to 2-5 - very good guys, great support but in reality thats just embarrassing for a team that cost so much and a club thats been so successful in the past
  6. The maulings liverpool have taken - at the hands of arsenal, chelsea, and others - are completely unacceptable, especially given liverpool have NEVER given a top team a once over - the 4 victories over the top 3 in the premiership they own have all been by a goal
  7. The fact that liverpools big losses this season have all been away from home at the three top sides - and at decent sides such as everton and bolton - means NOTHING if you cant beat them at home.

If Benitez cant attain a winning record in the three games vs the top sides in the premiership in the three remaining home games they have to play against them, Benitez out. 4 points out of 9 is the very very very least he needs to get to save his job. And that would be 4 points out of 18 against the top sides. Pathetic.


PS im going to do what i thought i wouldnt ever (and what the radio commentators are steadfastly forgetting to do) and say congratulations arsenal on a fantastic away victory. Liverpool is the big story of the day but arsenal have come and done a job regardless of the ****ing pathetic pish theyve walked all over today
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Unread 9 Jan 2007, 22:47   #2
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Re: Liverpool

I missed first 60 minutes due to having to attend a meeting at my local communist party chapter, but thank you.

Wenger has used alot of money, time and focus on the youth team for a decade now. I must say it pays off, not only making fine players but also getting us some money for those that we offload (like Bentley and Stokes).

THERE IS ONLY ONE ARSENE WENGER
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Unread 9 Jan 2007, 22:59   #3
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Re: Liverpool

A little piece of me has died inside today.

Tbh, Dudek can take some of the blame for the last couple of matches, but this last match they really needed Carra or someone playing from the start in defence. Losing Speedy didn't help - if we've lost Speedy + Garcia for a long period we're in even more trouble.

I'd still laugh if Liverpool beat Arsenal to 3rd place.
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Unread 9 Jan 2007, 23:11   #4
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Re: Liverpool

I think I shall be watching motd tonight.
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Unread 9 Jan 2007, 23:19   #5
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Re: Liverpool

Liverpool needs mainly 2 things... STAMINA and AGGRESSION in the midtfield and PACE in the back(at least today) it was just awful to watch my beloved liverpool tonight(hilarious in the end..).. Arsenal had more people in the defence when Liverpool attacked, and had more in the offence, when Arsenal was in the lead.. and the worst player on the pitch was Hyypia, who i didnt see run, who waved for offside instead of marking his player and how did silly mistakes... when will that old lazy fin get fired?:S

Us fans deserve so much more, at least a descent effort at anfield... it looked like the boys didnt even try to win.. well, we havent lost faith though "you'll never walk alone"
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Unread 9 Jan 2007, 23:21   #6
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Re: Liverpool

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
I think I shall be watching motd tonight.
No MotD for the Carling Cup.
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Unread 9 Jan 2007, 23:22   #7
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Re: Liverpool

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
I think I shall be watching motd tonight.
What sort of bizarre utopia are you living in where match of the day is on tuesdays?
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Unread 10 Jan 2007, 00:18   #8
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Re: Liverpool

It'd have been worth it just to see Alan Hansen. To be fair, he'd have been better than half of the Liverpool defence We could have had him in goal and only conceded 4 goals...
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Unread 10 Jan 2007, 00:26   #9
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Re: Liverpool

Great post Deffeh.


I was really impressed with Arsenal's reserves tonight, although Liverpool's ability to make Aliadiare look good really did scare me. Traore was solid at left-back and Denilson did a good job in midfield, so I've got high hopes for the future. Almunia's been playing well recently which is nice, although he's never going to be the first-choice keeper.

6-3's a very unusual scoreline, but it reflects how poor the Liverpool defence were, as well as their attempt to go attacking against Arsenal. It just didn't work, and you've got to credit Toure and Djourou with much of that.
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Unread 10 Jan 2007, 00:29   #10
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Re: Liverpool

Liverpool don't seem to have the ability to penetrate a pork pie after their last 2 matches vs Arsenal They really lost it in the last 1/3 of the field. I think that Arsenal's defence deserve a fair amount of credit - in general they looked pretty organised, Bellamy was occasionally up there trying to outrun them and they usually managed to hold him off - but also Liverpool's attacking was pretty diabolical at times (in both matches).
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Unread 10 Jan 2007, 01:00   #11
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Re: Liverpool

Liverpool's problems are all over the shop if you ask me, never mind the manager.

That Hyppia is gone, Carragher is pedestrian, teams have sussed it and Agger is their only credible central defender left. This leaves Liverpool with Finnan, Riise and Agger at the back as actually top prem class defenders.

The best player can't play in his true position, no one can actually play left wing to a consistent level and even Zenden who might be able to gets shunted to the centre.

Up front for Liverpool, it's just as bad, I'm afraid. Crouch is the best forward, no doubt, but he is a support striker who needs to have a goalscorer around him. Kuyt is an 'almost' player who will never be quite there, Fowler is gone and Bellamy needs to be a big fish in a small pond to really succeed and feed his ego, he'll never be a big club player.

Add in the rotation and you've got a side that is as bad, maybe even worse than when Houllier got fired. Liverpool may have beaten Bolton 3-0, but in terms of having a team and making the most out of what they have, Bolton are ahead and I think Wenger will take them a lot more seriously.

Liverpool can get it together, maybe get in a couple and hold a champions league spot comfortably, but tonight is one of those results that can result in the ultimate downfall of a manager months down the line. It's not all lost, but to deny it is bad, would be foolish. There are Bolton, Portsmouth, Spurs and Everton fans probably waiting and hoping to capitalise if their confidence falls over. Arsenal no doubt will probably feel their champions league spot is pretty much nailed on at this rate, simply cos Liverpool and the other european contenders are probably no more able to gain as many points as they can.

Arsenal were given space and time and killed Liverpool off accordingly because even their kids have the ability to do it. Benitez obviously didn't learn from other teams that if you want to beat arsenal you don't attack, you be aggressive - getting stuck in always reaps dividends against a side like that, especially when a lot of them are kids likely to lose their rag or back into a corner.
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Unread 10 Jan 2007, 01:28   #12
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Re: Liverpool

[Football]
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Unread 10 Jan 2007, 01:34   #13
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Re: Liverpool

I dont agree with some of your comments on liverpools team.



Re the center backs -

hyypia is aging, yes, but theres been games where hes been liverpools best defender, even this season. why? Hes the only one of them that knows how to defend the cross ball.

carragher - his best asset is his commitment, hes never been 'one of the great talents' - i hope he rebounds from saturday in particular, as it was his commitment then which was the problem, not getting tackles in.

agger - cant handle the cross ball. best case in point is the galatasaray 4-3 game in the champions league, hakan suker (i think) scored two identically pathetic headed goals.


Given its 2 from 3 on any occasion, agger is the only one with pace and hyypia is the only one that can handle a ****ing ball in the box, liverpool are always going to be in trouble either by pace or by lofted balls.

Especially if benitez continues with the ****ing zonal marking.

The forwards its pretty much the same situation - 2 from 3 with players who have obvious weaknesses.

Bellamy is the only one with real pace - but after 6+ seasons of football he hasnt learned the ****ing offside rule.

Crouch is a tremendous hold up player - but his biggest asset, his height - he still cant head the ball for ****ing toffee. And hes got no pace, and cant shoot from outside the box, and isnt neccesarily a natural finisher.

Kuyt - i agree with the term 'almost' - but i dont agree with your use of it. When Kuyt has played, things have 'almost' happened, but havent yet - but he looks by far the most likely player on the pitch to score - much like rooney does - you always feel something might happen when kuyt is there, even if it hasnt yet. Works very hard and is a clever footballer, if he manages to add goals to his game he'll do very well.

Therefore with the forwards, its 2 from 3 again - but whether they are problems or assets depend on whether the team is playing well or not.

Re zenden, he's been really, really bad this year. And benitez would prefer to play zenden in the middle and gerrard on the left, which is just ****ing bizarre. I wouldnt say the right wing is any less troublesome than the left wing though, one swallow doesnt make a summer when we talk about jermaine pennant.

The midfield doesnt have any consistency, and a major question for me is "can liverpool afford alonso?" I would suggest that without changing to a 3-5-2 (which with the centre back situation is a long way off) liverpool are a better team with sissoko in midfield, as his tackling is superb and he gives greater license to gerrard going forward. Alonso is a brilliant passer and a hard worker but he doesnt attack like gerrard does and he doesnt defend like sissoko does.

He's very much one of these old style central midfielders that are just 'good all rounders' - speed, gillespie come to mind - that can attack and can defend but dont neccesary specialise in one area. I dont know whether its just my own personal fascination with having an attacking mid, and a defensive mid, but im not sure in a 2 man central midfield i have room for that type of player.

Think about some of the great central midfield combinations, keane holding for scholes, etc. Players that compliment each other make great teams.
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Unread 10 Jan 2007, 01:50   #14
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Re: Liverpool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
IBellamy is the only one with real pace - but after 6+ seasons of football he hasnt learned the ****ing offside rule.
qft- practically died laughing reading this. He has really worked on his movement though, he has got better.

Quote:
Crouch is a tremendous hold up player - but his biggest asset, his height - he still cant head the ball for ****ing toffee. And hes got no pace, and cant shoot from outside the box, and isnt neccesarily a natural finisher.
I do feel that about Crouch. Tbh, Kuyt and Bellamy work their socks off and together seem to work. Crouch just doesn't fit in. He's just lanky and has really good ball skills. I don't see why he just doesn't make Pennant cross 100 balls a day in so he can practice heading them - he's far more likely to score than with his impressive-but-otherwise rare volleys

Quote:
Kuyt - i agree with the term 'almost' - but i dont agree with your use of it. When Kuyt has played, things have 'almost' happened, but havent yet - but he looks by far the most likely player on the pitch to score - much like rooney does - you always feel something might happen when kuyt is there, even if it hasnt yet. Works very hard and is a clever footballer, if he manages to add goals to his game he'll do very well.
I heart Kuyt. He's ace. I'm not sure he's the most likely player on the pitch to score, as generally Liverpool seem to fall apart no matter who gets close to the goal, but he's involved in so much of everything, it's really good.


Quote:
I wouldnt say the right wing is any less troublesome than the left wing though, one swallow doesnt make a summer when we talk about jermaine pennant.
Pennant and Finnan are finally ish starting to gel, I'd wait till nearer the end of the season (or at least when sissoko gets back) to worry about replacing him. He seems to be finally finding his confidence, though his crosses need a bit more work.

Quote:
The midfield doesnt have any consistency, and a major question for me is "can liverpool afford alonso?" I would suggest that without changing to a 3-5-2 (which with the centre back situation is a long way off) liverpool are a better team with sissoko in midfield, as his tackling is superb and he gives greater license to gerrard going forward. Alonso is a brilliant passer and a hard worker but he doesnt attack like gerrard does and he doesnt defend like sissoko does.
Yeah, this is why Gerrard ends up on the right. Alonso's passing is amazing, and since Sissoko has gone he's worked on his tackling more. He's pretty much all round, as you say (a bit like Zenden?). Sissoko is just ace though, his "two man midfield" description is pretty accurate. He's all over the place and just settles everything down. I can't wait to have him back, we'd almost certainly have done better against Arsenal (especially this last game) with him around. Gerrard is just Gerrard, and if they're playing in the centre then you're left an Alonso.


Really, Liverpool need a 13-aside team or something to cover all the bases. It just doesn't work
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Unread 10 Jan 2007, 01:55   #15
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Re: Liverpool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
qft- practically died laughing reading this. He has really worked on his movement though, he has got better.
I would completely disagree. Last time I went to see Wales play he was the captain and he still couldn't be bothered to get back on-side when we had the ball. He is such a lazy ****.
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Unread 10 Jan 2007, 01:57   #16
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Re: Liverpool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
I dont agree with some of your comments on liverpools team.



Re the center backs -

hyypia is aging, yes, but theres been games where hes been liverpools best defender, even this season. why? Hes the only one of them that knows how to defend the cross ball.

carragher - his best asset is his commitment, hes never been 'one of the great talents' - i hope he rebounds from saturday in particular, as it was his commitment then which was the problem, not getting tackles in.
The point is one of them must be removed and replaced, post haste as the lack of pace is exposing Liverpool unnecessarily. For me, I'd keep carragher, simply because of that commitment and adaptability.

Quote:
agger - cant handle the cross ball. best case in point is the galatasaray 4-3 game in the champions league, hakan suker (i think) scored two identically pathetic headed goals


Given its 2 from 3 on any occasion, agger is the only one with pace and hyypia is the only one that can handle a ****ing ball in the box, liverpool are always going to be in trouble either by pace or by lofted balls.

Especially if benitez continues with the ****ing zonal marking.
Okay - I just think Agger is going to become a very good player. As for Benitez being shite, I'm not going to blame any Liverpool player for being rubbish just cos Benitez doesn't play to their strengths.

Quote:
The forwards its pretty much the same situation - 2 from 3 with players who have obvious weaknesses.

Bellamy is the only one with real pace - but after 6+ seasons of football he hasnt learned the ****ing offside rule.
This fits in my 'big fish, small pond' theory. Bellamy needs attention, in coaching and for teams to play specifically to his style. Blackburn did that to a T and he was absolutely mustard last season. Meanwhile at Newcastle and Scouse he's been one of many and been nowhere near as prolific.

Quote:
Crouch is a tremendous hold up player - but his biggest asset, his height - he still cant head the ball for ****ing toffee. And hes got no pace, and cant shoot from outside the box, and isnt neccesarily a natural finisher.
I just think Crouch is the best forward, as you can put him in the hold up/support role and you know he'll be ****ing awesome and create space for your front man, just by being tall and being a threat cos of his height, regardless of him heading it or not.

Quote:
Kuyt - i agree with the term 'almost' - but i dont agree with your use of it. When Kuyt has played, things have 'almost' happened, but havent yet - but he looks by far the most likely player on the pitch to score - much like rooney does - you always feel something might happen when kuyt is there, even if it hasnt yet. Works very hard and is a clever footballer, if he manages to add goals to his game he'll do very well.
Either Kuyt will do a Drogba and suddenly turn into a world class player in 12 months, or be in that class just below him. As at the minute I don't go "oh **** Kuyt's playing" unlike situations when Drog, Rooney, Larsson, Henry or Anelka are playing.

Quote:
Therefore with the forwards, its 2 from 3 again - but whether they are problems or assets depend on whether the team is playing well or not.
At the minute it's damage limitation for Liverpool. I'd stick Kuyt and Crouch up top and Bellamy wide simply cos he gets stuck in and can run with the thing. But there may be a better way to deal with Liverpool tactically - read later.

Quote:
Re zenden, he's been really, really bad this year. And benitez would prefer to play zenden in the middle and gerrard on the left, which is just ****ing bizarre.
Don't blame Zenden for other people's shitness. Players often play rubbish out of position.

Quote:
I wouldnt say the right wing is any less troublesome than the left wing though, one swallow doesnt make a summer when we talk about jermaine pennant.
Can't disagree. The problem with Pennant more than anything is that he's an idiot.

Quote:
The midfield doesnt have any consistency, and a major question for me is "can liverpool afford alonso?" I would suggest that without changing to a 3-5-2 (which with the centre back situation is a long way off) liverpool are a better team with sissoko in midfield, as his tackling is superb and he gives greater license to gerrard going forward. Alonso is a brilliant passer and a hard worker but he doesnt attack like gerrard does and he doesnt defend like sissoko does.

He's very much one of these old style central midfielders that are just 'good all rounders' - speed, gillespie come to mind - that can attack and can defend but dont neccesary specialise in one area. I dont know whether its just my own personal fascination with having an attacking mid, and a defensive mid, but im not sure in a 2 man central midfield i have room for that type of player.

Think about some of the great central midfield combinations, keane holding for scholes, etc. Players that compliment each other make great teams.
While Benitez is manager, Alonso will always be ahead of everyone in the pecking order. The fact about Alonso is that he plays best against the shit sides who can't really handle him or in Europe where you want possession football but against a top premiership side, you've got to be aggressive and he just isn't. United might find this out with Carrick, but unlike Liverpool they are actually a unit and have two world class defenders at the back.

In my opinion the only solution is to go back to the 4-5-1/4-3-3 where Liverpool where stifling possession with all 3 of them in the middle, so that while they were boring, rest assured getting past Liverpool was going to be very very hard. No point playing wide if you are going to be shit at it.
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Unread 10 Jan 2007, 02:08   #17
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Re: Liverpool

The problem with the formation change is it exposes liverpools lack of depth.

Kuyt is the only one of the forwards that could effectively play in the 4-5-1. Bellamy would be outmuscled and crouch would be holding the ball up and nodding it down to no one - gerrard is the only player in that team that can actually break from midfield.

4-3-3 is a shit formation, theres nothing i can say that i like about it. Liverpool dont have attacking or disciplined enough dutch style wingers to play it even if they wanted to. And yes koen i know holland play it and i know kuyt plays in it but its a ****ing stupid formation.
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Unread 10 Jan 2007, 02:09   #18
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Re: Liverpool

Kuyt, Bellamy and Garcia. There's your 3
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Unread 10 Jan 2007, 02:13   #19
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Re: Liverpool

kuyts wasted out wide and although thats the sort of namby-pamby position garcia probably would play in, i dont trust him to perform competently for 2 games in a row ever.
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Unread 10 Jan 2007, 02:19   #20
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Re: Liverpool

Bellamy would be on one flank, Garcia on the other. You could possibly play Crouch instead of Kuyt in the centre, tbh.
Then you'd play Gerrard, Alonso and Sissoko (obv).

In fact, you'd be selecting a 4-4-2 team. You could really confuse the opposition!
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Unread 10 Jan 2007, 09:55   #21
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Re: Liverpool

As a Gunners fan I was obviously pleased with the win and although I don't rate the Carling Cup all that highly it's always a pleasure to watch the up and coming players in action.

That said, I thought Benitez's attitude in the post match press conference was nothing short of appaling. When asked by the Sky pundit whether he thought his teams setup and tactics had been 'right' his reply beggared belief. He calmly looked at the camera, said "Yes" and then went on to explain how tactics don't play a part when your team are 3 goals to the bad. I was left wondering how the **** he thought they'd lost those goals in the first place.

Then he went on to say that he didn't think there were any lessons to be learned from the game and that he'd as soon just forget about it. If that attitude is the one being passed down to the players I don't see how they will ever build on their performances. Of course the rotation "system" Liverpool employ doesn't help them their either.
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Unread 10 Jan 2007, 17:15   #22
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Re: Liverpool

http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...9&postcount=11

I don't remember making that post, but I'm starting to agree with it more and more...
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Unread 10 Jan 2007, 21:45   #23
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Re: Liverpool

This post was taken from the Liverpool message boards, and i will repeat it hear since I can't be bothered to have to write the same things out again.

Basicly the usual idiots were calling for his head which is a ridiculous thing to ask for when you thing how long it took Fergerson and Wenger to win anything meaniful and Rafa has two major trophies, and a collection of minor ones, in 2.5 years.

This post isnt entirely about last night, its mainly about Rafa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazza24, Liverpoolfc.tv boards
Everyone can blame Rafa as much as they want but the brutal truth is he hasn't been fully backed yet by the club.
He has spent apparently a net sum of £48 million in 3 years.That equates to £16 million a year.Man Ure spent more than that on Carrick.

Rafa has had to sell players in order to buy so far in his reign and this is not acceptable for a man of his class and ability.

Last summer he wanted Alves and Kuyt.We all knew those were his targets.Problem was he only had the £16 million i mention above.

The Bellamy deal was offset from the money from the Cisse sale which of course will still arrive within the next 6 months.

So armed with just £16 million,Rafa had to try and haggle for Alves if he wanted Kuyt.He knew he would get Kuyt for around £9 million.This left him with £7 million plus any loans out etc which would bump up the money.

He eventually got up to £9.5 million for Alves but knew if he went any higher he wouldn't be able to get Kuyt.Sevilla wouldn't budge and in the end Rafa had to give up.He then got Pennant for £6.7 million and then onto Kuyt.

Now Pennant was obviously someone Rafa rated but not who he truly wanted.We all know that.Rafa wanted Alves and Kuyt but due to finances couldn't afford them both.

This is one of the reasons i don't slate Rafa.I watched last summer almost with embarressment as Rafa was almost telling everyone he was scraping the biscuit tin for transfer funds.If we want to compete with the big teams we shouldn't be scraping the barrel.

Now,hopefully with D.I.C coming in they will be able to give Rafa the funds he needs in order to get the BEST players and players HE TRULY wants for the first team and also the youngsters he wants like Diaby,Song etc at Arsenal.

I will judge Rafa properly when he is competing in the transfer market properly and not scraping the clubs barrel in order to get 2 players.Last summer we should have got Alves and Kuyt.

Now Rafa didn't value Alves at £12 million but i think he would have paid it if he could have still then bought Kuyt.He couldn't so he didn't.I watched this in horror but kept my usual positive stance about it.

Now.If you want me to be negative for once then this is it.Our club has stood still for years.The academy under Houllier was allowed to rot and his stubbornness led to it coming to a halt.

Rafa has come in and he said himself he couldn't believe the mess it was in.He is trying to rectify that aswell as the first team and he simply has had NO HELP from the potless board.They fritter away behind the scenes and have left Rafa hang out to dry.

YES,in Valencia he didn't have great money but he knew Spanish football and the players he inherited knew Spanish football and were good players in La Liga so it was a match made in heaven.

Here,he inherited a bunch of players that Houllier had built for Europe but were hopeless in the league.The board can't be blamed as such for the investment because they have taken there time and found a worthy partner in D.I.C it seems.

Now,all i ask,and this is the reason i don't criticise Rafa,is that those who want him out wait until D.I.C come in and can give Rafa the kind of money he needs to build the whole club,from the academy to the reserves to the first team.

If that happens and Rafa is still not doing it then fair enough,i have no defence,but one of the main reasons i don't criticise him isn't just blind faith,it is seeing how he has had to scrape the biscuit barrel just to sign a player or 2.

Next summer,when D.I.C come i hope that Rafa can go to the board and say he wants PLAYER X,PLAYER Y AND PLAYER Z.Then the board will simply go out and get Rafa player X,Y AND Z.None of this 'Ok,you can have players X but you'll then have to get player A as there ain't any money left for Y and Z'.

GET HIM THE PLAYERS HE WANTS.Then,if Rafa has the players he TRULY wants both in the 1st team and the academy,aswell as reserves and he is happy and we are still struggling to beat the big boys and challenge for the title then the criticism he is receiving now will be justified.

For last night performance the criticism can be aimed at Rafa,the players,the board and the chairman but each can state a case for the defence.Rafa can say he hasn't had the funds yet to get his TRUE targets,the players last night can say they tried there best,the board and chairman can say they are close to securing the deal that will allow a repeat of last night to NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN.

Getting rid of Rafa will solve nothing.I believe and always have that he is a top manager and he showed at Valencia that when he has players he is truly happy with and truly comfy with he can get brilliant results and success.

That's why i have faith in him.I know he can do it and all the talk of tactical naivity and rubbish attacking football is wrong because he showed at Valencia he plays that way.It is simply down to the player he has here.

He wants better players and has never been able to get them or get the true players he wants to move this club forward.We could still end up with silverware this season of course,but whatever happens D.I.C need to know that they MUST back the manager.

I believe that manager is Rafa and they must give him EVERYTHING he needs whether it is for the academy,reserves or first team and if they do i believe we will rule this country and Europe under Rafa.

I feel really sorry for him because it appears at first the Champions League success stalled the investment talks and now we are only just getting it and Rafa is under pressure.The board have left him out to dry.

Anyway,all i will say is last night was UNACCEPTABLE and no one will say it wasn't.BUT the problems run deeper than just Rafa and hopefully now the club truly realise what needs to be done and hopefully D.I.C being the great business people with a Liverpool fan as CEO will give Rafa everything he needs.

I plead with those who hate Rafa to take a step back,allow D.I.C to take over,give Rafa the proper funds a Liverpool manager should have to allow him to get his NUMBER ONE target next summer and have a look at us next season.

If Rafa still doesn't impress you then fair enough but i have longed for someone to invest or takeover so that he can show his true management and class.He was unlucky that he took over at a time when we were in a financial mess and trying to sort the stadium out.

BUT.Look what Rafa has done with very little money or should i say,in terms of what a massive club has.£16 million budget and not being able to sign Alves AND Kuyt but only one of them is not what a Liverpool manager should have to do.

So.Cut him some slack,wait until D.I.C take over and he gets proper funds and then judge Rafa.I will stake everything that when that happens we will see this club become amazing from top to bottom under Rafa.He almost appears frustrated that he can't sort the club out properly and not just the first team.

So,wait until D.I.C takeover and then judge Rafa.If we are still struggling as you think we are now after that then criticise until your hearts content,but give him a chance to do what he TRULY wants and buy who he TRULY wants with PROPER financial backing right through the club
This post relates more to the match. Basicly says the ref was a twat

Quote:
Originally Posted by , King-Kenny, Liverpoolfc.tv boards
Lets not forget that 1 goal was offside last night and another was a handball so thats 4-3 and then we had a goal ruled out for "offside" so thats 4-4

I also think the "foul" was very debious for the 2nd? goal (the one scored from the freekick)

So when you look at it like that we lost due to 3-4 very bad refreeing errors, the ref may as well have been "honest" and put on a Arsenal shirt and stop deluding himself and the rest. The pen that Dudek saved should not have been a penalty either

I am not saying we deserved to win, but the result should not have been so bad or maybe decided in extra time to either side
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Unread 10 Jan 2007, 21:50   #24
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Re: Liverpool

Actually, one of our goals was offside and their goal you said was offside wasn't offside. Warnock and Hypia played him on from what I saw in the replays.
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Unread 10 Jan 2007, 22:28   #25
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Re: Liverpool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stifler
Basicly the usual idiots were calling for his head which is a ridiculous thing to ask for when you thing how long it took Fergerson and Wenger to win anything meaniful and Rafa has two major trophies, and a collection of minor ones, in 2.5 years.
Wenger won the double in his first full season at Highbury.
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Unread 10 Jan 2007, 22:42   #26
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Re: Liverpool

Quote:
I believe that manager is Rafa and they must give him EVERYTHING he needs whether it is for the academy,reserves or first team and if they do i believe we will rule this country and Europe under Rafa.
This is really the sort of idiotic crap that only a football supporter could come up with.
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Unread 10 Jan 2007, 22:49   #27
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Re: Liverpool

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
This is really the sort of idiotic crap that only a football supporter could come up with.
Or the leader of any country.
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Unread 11 Jan 2007, 00:44   #28
All Systems Go
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Re: Liverpool

Ahha! Highlights on itv.
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