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Unread 13 Mar 2009, 17:23   #51
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Robban is back. All hail.
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Unread 13 Mar 2009, 18:18   #52
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

As a new player, this is a particularly interesting thread, so I might as well have my say too.

I heard of the game ages ago and thought i'd have a go. I joined with a mate and we both fouind it hard to get into. He has given up and closed his account already.
I'm very close to closing mine.

The game itself isn't the problem, its actually quite good, its this attitude of long term players.

The two main problems I have experienced are:

Exile
After joining a galaxy, and even defending some of the attacks, I was exiled. the reason was that i 'didnt fit into their plans'
Since then i have been exiled from several galaxies and ended up in a galaxy in the bottom 10%.
I was ready to close my account until I landed in this galaxy. Even though we do get attacked quite a bit, the galaxy is actually not exliing everyone. We are tyring to play together (but its hard when we are getting raped constantly!)

I can understand why the Exile option is there for galaxy ministers, but i dont see why they should be able to exile at will.
Maybe the exile option should only be available to ministers if the account is inactive for a certain time. If the player is actually loggin in and playing then they should be allowed to stay in the galaxy without being thrown out.
This would also make the galaxies a bit more evenly matched.

IRC
I, like manyn others, find it difficult to get on IRC often enough for some galaxies/alliances even acknowledge i exist.
I log in every hour or so and use the forums etc to make sure i help with defences and stuff.
IRC cannot be removed as it is essential for the experieced players, but its not fair that any player who isnt on IRC constantly is immediately assumed to be inactive.
An alternative needs to be found or a way to encourage alliances/galaxies to let non irc users to join in.

Anyway, rant over.
It's a good game but some existing players are making it very hard for new players.
I've chatted to a number of players in this round and so far have met 9 who have got sick of it and just closed their accounts.

I havent decided if i want to be the 10th......
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Unread 13 Mar 2009, 23:18   #53
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

@ roidless

ministers are allowed to exile cos they have control of the gal... some planets could never go inactive but still never come on irc or even repley to mails or ne contact made with them! that is why we need to exile ppl.

Pro players and Allies need players on IRC, it dont matter how active u are by logging in, if ur not on irc ur not any help to most gals or most allies, bite the bullet here and get the program or fubra invest in a system that can connect to irc
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Unread 13 Mar 2009, 23:21   #54
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

I think what roidless' post illustrates the most is that the way we communicate ingame has to change, particularly with the interface. While we do need a chat function, we need a screen combining messages from galaxy mates/alliance mates/friends to allow slicker communication - because using in game mail and forums just isn't working. It's clear that a 'stream' of messages would be far more efficient.

This should make it easier to bridge the gap between the casual user and IRC, and hopefully encourage them to use IRC more.
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Unread 14 Mar 2009, 00:16   #55
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Shoutbox?
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Unread 14 Mar 2009, 11:00   #56
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roidless View Post
As a new player, this is a particularly interesting thread, so I might as well have my say too.

I heard of the game ages ago and thought i'd have a go. I joined with a mate and we both fouind it hard to get into. He has given up and closed his account already.
I'm very close to closing mine.

The game itself isn't the problem, its actually quite good, its this attitude of long term players.

The two main problems I have experienced are:

Exile
After joining a galaxy, and even defending some of the attacks, I was exiled. the reason was that i 'didnt fit into their plans'
Since then i have been exiled from several galaxies and ended up in a galaxy in the bottom 10%.
I was ready to close my account until I landed in this galaxy. Even though we do get attacked quite a bit, the galaxy is actually not exliing everyone. We are tyring to play together (but its hard when we are getting raped constantly!)

I can understand why the Exile option is there for galaxy ministers, but i dont see why they should be able to exile at will.
Maybe the exile option should only be available to ministers if the account is inactive for a certain time. If the player is actually loggin in and playing then they should be allowed to stay in the galaxy without being thrown out.
This would also make the galaxies a bit more evenly matched.

IRC
I, like manyn others, find it difficult to get on IRC often enough for some galaxies/alliances even acknowledge i exist.
I log in every hour or so and use the forums etc to make sure i help with defences and stuff.
IRC cannot be removed as it is essential for the experieced players, but its not fair that any player who isnt on IRC constantly is immediately assumed to be inactive.
An alternative needs to be found or a way to encourage alliances/galaxies to let non irc users to join in.

Anyway, rant over.
It's a good game but some existing players are making it very hard for new players.
I've chatted to a number of players in this round and so far have met 9 who have got sick of it and just closed their accounts.

I havent decided if i want to be the 10th......
Planetarion in its current form is not a game for you. IRC and activity is a MUST. Why should people who spend 90% of their life keep players which login every other day, when they could get other no lifers?
PA is a game for hardcore players, and I cant see how any facebook application or anything else can change that. PA isnt a game for the masses.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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Unread 14 Mar 2009, 11:02   #57
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Private alliance networks are ****ing retarded.
no they are not. I ll be looking into getting one for Omen for next round, simply because netgamers isnt to be trusted, and its far too easy to relay ( hello cardinal / domantaz )
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Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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Unread 14 Mar 2009, 11:06   #58
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddy_Bear View Post
ministers are allowed to exile cos they have control of the gal
Er, yea. good answer.....

I apreciate your reply but still dont get it. Just because you have played all 30 rounds and treat the game as a huge deal, why does it give you the right to throw people out of your galaxy for not joining with you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddy_Bear View Post
but still never come on irc or even repley to mails or ne contact made with them! that is why we need to exile ppl.
Please Note: there is no mention of doing anything wrong, causing trouble, inciting attacks against the galaxy or even being generally rude.

You 'need' to exile them just because they dont talk to you??
Why should they have to? They can play the game however they want. They dont have to do what you say just because you were made the galaxy minister by your two mates who are in your galaxy with you.

many of us dont really want to use IRC anyway. Even if I could I wouldnt sit on IRC alll the time. Its a game and its fun to play but sitting on IRC isnt a REQUIREMENT, its a choice.

The point is, why cant you just play the game with the people in your galaxy and stop whining?
If you really are good a this game, you dont need to surround yourself with people who are going to leap to your defence all the time. Thats what friends and allliances are for.



My apologies guys, but this person is one of the reasons that so many new players stop playing.

It's a waste of a good game.
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Unread 14 Mar 2009, 11:42   #59
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

What many new players fail to understand is that communication is the most important part of this game. It doesnt matter if you log in to your account often if you dont communicate with your galaxy. The galaxy is your absolute best source of defence and if you dont contribute to your galaxy 90% of the times they need you, its gonna cost you your spot in that galaxy. Then you will be exiled around until you end up in a galaxy that plays the game just like you.

So what you are not happy about is that the experienced players dont want to waste time protecting you, and instead exile you so that you end up in a gal filled with equals.
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Unread 14 Mar 2009, 12:13   #60
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
no they are not. I ll be looking into getting one for Omen for next round, simply because netgamers isnt to be trusted, and its far too easy to relay ( hello cardinal / domantaz )
Private networks don't protect against relays in any way whatsoever. My script can easily handle cross-network relays, it's a mattter of adding a whole 7 characters ('scid 1 ')

Why do you say Netgamers isn't to be trusted? Are you talking about the people running it or the network itself?
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Unread 14 Mar 2009, 12:34   #61
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roidless View Post
Er, yea. good answer.....

I apreciate your reply but still dont get it. Just because you have played all 30 rounds and treat the game as a huge deal, why does it give you the right to throw people out of your galaxy for not joining with you?



Please Note: there is no mention of doing anything wrong, causing trouble, inciting attacks against the galaxy or even being generally rude.

You 'need' to exile them just because they dont talk to you??
Why should they have to? They can play the game however they want. They dont have to do what you say just because you were made the galaxy minister by your two mates who are in your galaxy with you.

many of us dont really want to use IRC anyway. Even if I could I wouldnt sit on IRC alll the time. Its a game and its fun to play but sitting on IRC isnt a REQUIREMENT, its a choice.

The point is, why cant you just play the game with the people in your galaxy and stop whining?
If you really are good a this game, you dont need to surround yourself with people who are going to leap to your defence all the time. Thats what friends and allliances are for.



My apologies guys, but this person is one of the reasons that so many new players stop playing.

It's a waste of a good game.
Generally speaking, if you're in a galaxy you would want the people that are also in your galaxy to be in direct contact with you as much as possible.
IRC is the main tool for that, for both galaxies and alliances. It's also the most fun part of the game imo, if pa alliances/galaxies didn't use irc i'd have probably quit the game years ago.

If you land into a good galaxy and don't want to be exiled, you should think of irc as a sign of goodwill towards the other people in your galaxy, as a proof you want to stay in the gal and help out where you can...
It's not like they are going to demand of you to be online 24/7.
Most galaxies will gladly accept a new player if he shows willing to be active, get on irc occasionally, ...

Can't speak for the entire community, but if you would land in a galaxy i'm gc / minister in and appear active and would try to get on irc (i'll even help you out there) I would gladly let you stay, help you understand the game better, help you find an alliance that fits your skill and would learn you more about the game.
I've done this before alot and I honestly don't believe I'm the only person in PA that does this

So next time a galaxy asks you to get on irc, don't see it as them forcing you to do it, see it as an opportunity.
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Unread 14 Mar 2009, 12:45   #62
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

I firmly agree with everything roidless and lokken have said
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Unread 14 Mar 2009, 12:55   #63
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roidless View Post
Er, yea. good answer.....

I apreciate your reply but still dont get it. Just because you have played all 30 rounds and treat the game as a huge deal, why does it give you the right to throw people out of your galaxy for not joining with you?



Please Note: there is no mention of doing anything wrong, causing trouble, inciting attacks against the galaxy or even being generally rude.

You 'need' to exile them just because they dont talk to you??
Why should they have to? They can play the game however they want. They dont have to do what you say just because you were made the galaxy minister by your two mates who are in your galaxy with you.

many of us dont really want to use IRC anyway. Even if I could I wouldnt sit on IRC alll the time. Its a game and its fun to play but sitting on IRC isnt a REQUIREMENT, its a choice.

The point is, why cant you just play the game with the people in your galaxy and stop whining?
If you really are good a this game, you dont need to surround yourself with people who are going to leap to your defence all the time. Thats what friends and allliances are for.



My apologies guys, but this person is one of the reasons that so many new players stop playing.

It's a waste of a good game.
no itīs no waste of a good game
itīs you wasting time trying to play a game without willing to invest what it takes
you canīt play tennis without a net, you canīt play american football without a defensive line, you canīt fly to the moon with just good will
but you can try of course

its 2 things a active gal will recommend from you (sometimes 3)

1) be on irc
not idling there with a bouncer 24/7, but loggin in at peak times

2) be online at peak times (4 - 9 gmt)
even if u canīt be on irc at those times, cause of work or whatever, hardly any galaxy will exile you if u came to irc like before heading for work stating "guys i go to work now all my phants and bombers are home and i got 2 fleetslots available for defence, mail me ingame where i shall send em"
of course if your generally sleeping/not availbale at those times you will be exiled, as your useless for any cross defence issues

3) have an alliance
many gals wonīt demand you beeing in an alliance, if you dont expect to be defended when everyone has incs, while you defend ingal yourself
however playing without an alliance is a pretty bad idea, still some manage round for round with a good rank anyhow

if you lack those points(1 and 2) your a wasted spot for those topgals
and calling em elitist doesnt change anything
no emotional speech will make me change my mind about ppl not online at peak times or ppl not joining irc
if you donīt want to be pushed around by those gals, find 4 others of your kind and make your own gal with your own rules
no one is saying your not allowed
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Unread 14 Mar 2009, 12:56   #64
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal View Post
I firmly agree with everything roidless and lokken have said
You dont play the game. You dont have a clue about what it takes to -win-

Without the players actaully playing to WIN planetarion is NOTHING!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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Unread 14 Mar 2009, 12:58   #65
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Private networks don't protect against relays in any way whatsoever. My script can easily handle cross-network relays, it's a mattter of adding a whole 7 characters ('scid 1 ')

Why do you say Netgamers isn't to be trusted? Are you talking about the people running it or the network itself?
There are ways to stop the relay scripts I have been told, without going too much into that here.

Yes, too many people playing in diff. alliances got a chance to abuse the network. Been done before, will be done again. Both know that.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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Unread 14 Mar 2009, 13:03   #66
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roidless View Post
Er, yea. good answer.....

I apreciate your reply but still dont get it. Just because you have played all 30 rounds and treat the game as a huge deal, why does it give you the right to throw people out of your galaxy for not joining with you?
Yes, the fact that he has played 30rounds ( as me, not many of us left teddy ) gives him the right to decide whats needed to do well at PA. Its not RIGHT to stay in a good gal, u have to deserve the spot.
I have learned alot of players that landed in my gals how to play the game over the years, and I will continue to do so, but the first thing they have to do is to get on irc. Thats how PA works. Accept it, or play in a gal with ur own mates - as mentioned earlier you can make ur own BP at the start, and set ur own rules for that gal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roidless View Post
My apologies guys, but this person is one of the reasons that so many new players stop playing.

It's a waste of a good game.
Without wanting to be rude.... players like him are the reason PA is still alive. Players like you probably wont pay, and probably wont stay long. Whos most important?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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Unread 14 Mar 2009, 13:21   #67
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
There are ways to stop the relay scripts I have been told, without going too much into that here.
In short: no, there's not. The only foolproof way is monitoring online/offline time. What a person does with the messages sent to him by the IRC server is something you simply cannot find out about.
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Unread 14 Mar 2009, 13:48   #68
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Skipped most of the thread, but

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peets View Post
Why not make the roid cap linked at the value again?
Why don't we link roid cap to the average value of all attacking fleets included?

Average is lower than target's value = full cap (25%)
Average is higher than target's value = decrease (with a minimum of x%)
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Unread 14 Mar 2009, 13:57   #69
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
You dont play the game. You dont have a clue about what it takes to -win-

Without the players actaully playing to WIN planetarion is NOTHING!
You know I have played the game (and done pretty well)...

sure yes, to win you need to be irc active, but it should be possible to adequatly coordinate galaxy defence etc. without going onto irc.

I'm with Pete when he suggests that irc isn't the medium for the future. PA orignaly grew when irc was popular - if we want it to gorw again durely it needs to leverage the current popular communication tools - or be entirely self sufficient.
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Unread 14 Mar 2009, 15:30   #70
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roidless View Post
Er, yea. good answer.....

I apreciate your reply but still dont get it. Just because you have played all 30 rounds and treat the game as a huge deal, why does it give you the right to throw people out of your galaxy for not joining with you?

Please Note: there is no mention of doing anything wrong, causing trouble, inciting attacks against the galaxy or even being generally rude.

You 'need' to exile them just because they dont talk to you??
Why should they have to? They can play the game however they want. They dont have to do what you say just because you were made the galaxy minister by your two mates who are in your galaxy with you.

many of us dont really want to use IRC anyway. Even if I could I wouldnt sit on IRC alll the time. Its a game and its fun to play but sitting on IRC isnt a REQUIREMENT, its a choice.

The point is, why cant you just play the game with the people in your galaxy and stop whining?
If you really are good a this game, you dont need to surround yourself with people who are going to leap to your defence all the time. Thats what friends and allliances are for.


My apologies guys, but this person is one of the reasons that so many new players stop playing.

It's a waste of a good game.
lol you are so wrong on so many levels but lets start with at the top and ill try not to insult you like u did me....

1: if you have control of the gal, you should be able to exile who u want, exiling ppl so your gal sits on one side of the block or exiling ppl you just dont get on with, this is a tatic that is used not by all players but if you have an active BP its your gal, simple as...

2: just cos they are not inactive does not mean they fit in all gals, communication is a key in this game, how the hell are u going maximise fleet use if you dont communicate with the galaxy?

3: if they you want to play the game the way you want then it shouldnt matter what galaxy you are in

4: top gals need active ppl on irc to make the most of the round, having a planet that wont communicate with the gal is dead weight, solo playing wont get you anywhere

5: if you want to stay in a good gal then you should really respect the players that know every trick in the book, these are normaly the minister also normaly the ones that sort out the defence fleets ingal, also help players with any question or querys about the game, but they must come on irc to get this help

6: if you dont wanna come on irc then you need to except the fact that you will not be kept in many gals, why should people put up players that will not give a few hours of there day to the gal and the game

7: irc IS a requirement for most active gals and ALL active allies get over it...

8: the point is, why should we play with ppl who dont want to communicate with the gal?

9: you obvously dont understand the basics of pa... galaxy defence is key if you want to do well, cross defending ingal is a must, it dont matter what allie or how good you are at this game if your galaxy or alliance gets heavly targeted you need the fleets ingal to stop alot of the incoming as your alliance can not cover you all the time, you need to work as a group ingal

10: im GC of my gal currently and we have 3 players ingal that are not PRO players and dont use irc that often but they come on irc most nights and most mornings to send defence, these are the players i have time for, a help them any chance i can, wether it be finding an alliance, helping them to understand PA, helping them get an attack with an alliance or teaming up with a member ingal, getting scans for them, explaining the ship stats etc

11: i will not exile a planet that has shown up on irc and willing to put that little bit of effort in, i will only exile them if they show up then never turn back up or stop playing


over my many rounds of playing PA i have tryed to help all players that are new to this game, giving them help on getting on irc and also what i mentioned in point 10, it is new players like you that come to this game and dont show any willingness to take part which is why alot of players exile ppl without even bothering to give them a chance

oh and btw there has been 32 rounds not 30 (round 9.5 and 10.5)
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Unread 14 Mar 2009, 15:42   #71
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
Yes, the fact that he has played 30rounds ( as me, not many of us left teddy ) gives him the right to decide whats needed to do well at PA. Its not RIGHT to stay in a good gal, u have to deserve the spot.
I have learned alot of players that landed in my gals how to play the game over the years, and I will continue to do so, but the first thing they have to do is to get on irc. Thats how PA works. Accept it, or play in a gal with ur own mates - as mentioned earlier you can make ur own BP at the start, and set ur own rules for that gal.


Without wanting to be rude.... players like him are the reason PA is still alive. Players like you probably wont pay, and probably wont stay long. Whos most important?

i hope what you are trying to say is that

'if someone lands in my galaxy and is irc active i won't exile him based on score'
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Unread 14 Mar 2009, 15:46   #72
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Theamion
i hope what you are trying to say is that

'if someone lands in my galaxy and is irc active i won't exile him based on score'
We already have a few of those!
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Unread 14 Mar 2009, 16:13   #73
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Theamion View Post
i hope what you are trying to say is that

'if someone lands in my galaxy and is irc active i won't exile him based on score'
yes. I wanted to exile you out though. Not because ur inactiive or shit at PA, but because ur asc.
I kinda stopped giving a flying **** about my gal when they didnt agree to exile u.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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Unread 14 Mar 2009, 16:14   #74
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal View Post
You know I have played the game (and done pretty well)...

sure yes, to win you need to be irc active, but it should be possible to adequatly coordinate galaxy defence etc. without going onto irc.

No, thats not possible. You need to know people will get on, share phone numbers, and be on irc to communicate.

If u dont do either, ur useless to the galaxy and WILL be exiled.

And no, I dont know that. u might have, but I cant recall any rounds where u did good.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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Unread 15 Mar 2009, 00:51   #75
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
PA isnt a game for the masses.
I think this is one of the most important remarks here. This is also the source of many issues. The source of the clash between "pro" players and casual players. I think this might be the main task for Fubar: to make it a game for the masses again... or is there no way back?
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Unread 15 Mar 2009, 01:43   #76
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Of course there is, Wish is talking bullshit. There are lots of people playing this game on a non-competetive level--they're just not the people Wish usually associates with. Even in alliances such as ROCK you can find people for whom PA is a hobby, not a job, and ROCK is generally known to be an ok mid-tier alliance. There are plenty of people in decently-performing alliances ranked lower than ROCK.

I won't claim that this is the problem of PA, but it is one of the important ones: the game caters to players like Wishmaster, and not to the audience that could boost PA's player numbers to acceptable levels again. This in turn is a result of the lack of vision that's been prevalent in PA for years now. When the bosses of the game do not know what to do, it is very easy to revert to populism: whoever has the biggest mouth gets their way. The fact that Appocomaster asks #alliances for game design advice is a really bad sign.

One of the things that needs to be done if PA is to be saved in the long term is that all the big shots should be ignored, or at least approached in an extremely critical fashion (and by all means, approach my input in the same fashion).

(Wish, hope you don't mind I used you as an example here, no offence was intended. <3)
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Unread 15 Mar 2009, 02:43   #77
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Of course there is, Wish is talking bullshit. There are lots of people playing this game on a non-competetive level--they're just not the people Wish usually associates with. Even in alliances such as ROCK you can find people for whom PA is a hobby, not a job, and ROCK is generally known to be an ok mid-tier alliance. There are plenty of people in decently-performing alliances ranked lower than ROCK.
I know, I understand, and I agree as I observe from a perspective similar to ROCK (i.e. Orbit).

Quote:
I won't claim that this is the problem of PA, but it is one of the important ones: the game caters to players like Wishmaster, and not to the audience that could boost PA's player numbers to acceptable levels again. This in turn is a result of the lack of vision that's been prevalent in PA for years now. When the bosses of the game do not know what to do, it is very easy to revert to populism: whoever has the biggest mouth gets their way. The fact that Appocomaster asks #alliances for game design advice is a really bad sign.
One of the things that needs to be done if PA is to be saved in the long term is that all the big shots should be ignored, or at least approached in an extremely critical fashion (and by all means, approach my input in the same fashion).
I think your observation confirms my defined challenge, which I stated as: "I think this might be the main task for Fubar: to make it a game for the masses again."
Indeed, I agree this is only to be achieved if Fubar chooses its own way, i.e. worked out in a vision, mid term objectives and short term goals more or less independently of the current marginal assertive playerbase. Of course suggestions should be contemplated, however these suggestions should be weighed on their merits towards a larger perspective, a perspective greater than the marginal assertive playerbase perspective.
Thus, in order to start working on my above mentioned challenge another challenge should be overwon first: creating a steady, strong, and clear vision on the game. This challenge also includes creating a strong team to communicate this vision to the community. "Wavering", "doubting", "giving in" should not be in the dictionary of this team after the creation of the vision. Otherwise you have a great vision... but nobody will buy it!
A rocky road is ahead, Fubar... Good luck!
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Unread 15 Mar 2009, 11:38   #78
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
When the bosses of the game do not know what to do, it is very easy to revert to populism: whoever has the biggest mouth gets their way. The fact that Appocomaster asks #alliances for game design advice is a really bad sign.
Apart from alliance tools, alliance limits, and "how do you think alliances would react if we ....", I've not asked for opinions from alliances. Whilst I may seek their opinion, I find it slightly insulting that you appear to think that a) if I'm sourcing opinions, I'd treat them as my only source
b) I'd do whatever they say.

Cin has recently been spending a lot of time on the suggestions forum implementing things from there. This appears to have been neglected? I've certainly been reading them more recently. The development forum that you are on also goes in and out of use. All these elements appear to have been neglected?

Quote:
One of the things that needs to be done if PA is to be saved in the long term is that all the big shots should be ignored, or at least approached in an extremely critical fashion (and by all means, approach my input in the same fashion).
I agree. Pete has tried to show signs of this by using forum polls (though perhaps we should look at moving these in-game). We might have another survey or two, too
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Unread 15 Mar 2009, 11:46   #79
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster View Post
I agree. Pete has tried to show signs of this by using forum polls (though perhaps we should look at moving these in-game). We might have another survey or two, too
Market research is good, just make sure you also ask the customers which aren't using your product, because they do usually deliver far more important information than us, your fellow customers.
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Unread 15 Mar 2009, 12:17   #80
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless View Post
Market research is good, just make sure you also ask the customers which aren't using your product, because they do usually deliver far more important information than us, your fellow customers.
Just get Pete to signup and play, then get some of Fubra admins (who havent even heard of the game) signup for afew ticks.. then see what they say is wrong or what they dont like or what they find difficult etc.
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Unread 15 Mar 2009, 12:17   #81
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless View Post
Market research is good, just make sure you also ask the customers which aren't using your product, because they do usually deliver far more important information than us, your fellow customers.
I think thats a very good point - if for example we are serios with facebook integration, we need to know what facebook users would want from the game, rather than the current player base.
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Unread 15 Mar 2009, 13:31   #82
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster View Post
Apart from alliance tools, alliance limits, and "how do you think alliances would react if we ....", I've not asked for opinions from alliances. Whilst I may seek their opinion, I find it slightly insulting that you appear to think that a) if I'm sourcing opinions, I'd treat them as my only source
b) I'd do whatever they say.
For one thing, Rob's private galaxy idea got totally ****ed over, and from what you posted/said about it at the time, I (and many with me) deduced that this was largely due to feedback from alliance HCs, who (virtually without exception) are utterly clueless in this matter.

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Originally Posted by Appocomaster View Post
Cin has recently been spending a lot of time on the suggestions forum implementing things from there. This appears to have been neglected?
I have in fact complimented Cin on his activity on this front. However, implementing an ingame bcalc, arbiter and so forth, though they are significant improvements, has very little to do with game design.

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I've certainly been reading them more recently.
How about the x topics on the rollback procedure? People are basically begging for some kind of acknowledgement by you and yours that maybe there's a problem, but so far without result.

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The development forum that you are on also goes in and out of use. All these elements appear to have been neglected?
No, I don't have access (any more). I told you months ago.

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Originally Posted by Appocomaster View Post
I agree. Pete has tried to show signs of this by using forum polls (though perhaps we should look at moving these in-game). We might have another survey or two, too
No, if you think forum polls are what is needed, then you don't agree at all.
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Unread 15 Mar 2009, 13:35   #83
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

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Originally Posted by Appocomaster View Post
I agree. Pete has tried to show signs of this by using forum polls (though perhaps we should look at moving these in-game). We might have another survey or two, too
definately - have em ingame
and if possible right after u logged in

get everyone to vote, not just the forum users
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Unread 15 Mar 2009, 15:15   #84
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Of course there is, Wish is talking bullshit. There are lots of people playing this game on a non-competetive level--they're just not the people Wish usually associates with. Even in alliances such as ROCK you can find people for whom PA is a hobby, not a job, and ROCK is generally known to be an ok mid-tier alliance. There are plenty of people in decently-performing alliances ranked lower than ROCK.

I won't claim that this is the problem of PA, but it is one of the important ones: the game caters to players like Wishmaster, and not to the audience that could boost PA's player numbers to acceptable levels again. This in turn is a result of the lack of vision that's been prevalent in PA for years now. When the bosses of the game do not know what to do, it is very easy to revert to populism: whoever has the biggest mouth gets their way. The fact that Appocomaster asks #alliances for game design advice is a really bad sign.

One of the things that needs to be done if PA is to be saved in the long term is that all the big shots should be ignored, or at least approached in an extremely critical fashion (and by all means, approach my input in the same fashion).

(Wish, hope you don't mind I used you as an example here, no offence was intended. <3)
not at all. And I hope they change pa so much that it becomes unattractable for me, and that I can finally quit this ****ing shit game.

I cant see how a sci fi browser game from last century can become attractive again for the masses though, and I honestly think that if they try to make it attractive for the masses, it will kill pa alot faster than if they just do smal changes to the game.

Dont get me wrong though, pa will die anyway - like all other things
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Unread 15 Mar 2009, 17:30   #85
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

I think that with the introduction of buddypacks, I honestly feel that exiling people from galaxies is simply not needed anymore.

I think it might seem unfair for those who are unlucky with whom they end up with, but that will vary from round to round. But it will also encourage people to try getting the ones they have to be more active, and to more activly get people interested in the game, rather than just discard them like what's going on now.
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Unread 15 Mar 2009, 17:48   #86
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool View Post
I think that with the introduction of buddypacks, I honestly feel that exiling people from galaxies is simply not needed anymore.

I think it might seem unfair for those who are unlucky with whom they end up with, but that will vary from round to round. But it will also encourage people to try getting the ones they have to be more active, and to more activly get people interested in the game, rather than just discard them like what's going on now.
wont that just lead to more BPs disbanding, and hence even fewer gals?

remove self exile options also?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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Unread 15 Mar 2009, 18:02   #87
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

I posted this in another thread, might be interesting for this one as well:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Would it be interesting if every planet automatically gained a small number of roids every tick?

The reason I'm asking is because of the fairly rigorous auto-deletion protocols in PA. Why do we remove abandoned planets from the active universe? The longer I think about it, the more I find myself opposing the ability of a galaxy to exile non-desired planets altogether, as well as the auto-deletion and auto-c200 mechanisms, and even self-exiling. Can anyone give me a good reason why any of these things are good for the game (as opposed to individual galaxies or players)?

The game needs a social contract between experienced players and new players. When experienced players are forced to work with newbies, they will automatically impart knowledge on them, improving the game as a whole. This already happens on a small scale, but it mostly targets the players that have already found IRC and already have a fairly high level of activity (ie, who log in two or more times a day), and not the more casual gamers.

If this happens, then the amount of new players that quit before they finished out their first round should reduce significantly.

All that remains then is finding a way to preserve the abandoned planets in the universe, by giving them a role to play, rather than just being obstacles (for example, to be farms for smaller planets). This mechanism can used to artificially increase the size of the universe, while simultaneously it's good for planets that aren't as active as most of us forum-goers are, because it gives them relatively risk-free targets.
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Unread 15 Mar 2009, 18:57   #88
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

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Originally Posted by Kargool View Post
I think that with the introduction of buddypacks, I honestly feel that exiling people from galaxies is simply not needed anymore.

I think it might seem unfair for those who are unlucky with whom they end up with, but that will vary from round to round. But it will also encourage people to try getting the ones they have to be more active, and to more activly get people interested in the game, rather than just discard them like what's going on now.
No. Well, at least not as things stand at the moment.

Too many people create accounts which they login and lose interest in the game. I know there are a large number of planets which get exiled because they don't meet the insanely high standards of certain galaxies (and this is bad), but just remember that exiling is a way of getting rid of those planets who simply refuse to login and play.

There is nothing worse than a galaxy which has absolutely no hope of improving. People were quite ready to quit a round in the past if their galaxy was beyond saving, this was one of the reasons why various forms of exiling exists.

I'm not saying this is necessarily a bad idea, however you'd really need to put in measures so that new planets in galaxies are more likely to be active accounts - even if that means you have to delay players getting started (training accounts, tutorial planets, get them to travel to their new home, etc.) so galaxies won't get irate with the number of inactive players.
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Unread 15 Mar 2009, 20:28   #89
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

back to the thread. got nothing against new features but communication is the base of Planetarion and IRC are the roots for many current users. I'm pro irc here and would wish some more coders would reply *hands the mic to Kjelle
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Unread 15 Mar 2009, 23:44   #90
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

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Originally Posted by GReaper View Post
No. Well, at least not as things stand at the moment.

Too many people create accounts which they login and lose interest in the game. I know there are a large number of planets which get exiled because they don't meet the insanely high standards of certain galaxies (and this is bad), but just remember that exiling is a way of getting rid of those planets who simply refuse to login and play.

There is nothing worse than a galaxy which has absolutely no hope of improving. People were quite ready to quit a round in the past if their galaxy was beyond saving, this was one of the reasons why various forms of exiling exists.

I'm not saying this is necessarily a bad idea, however you'd really need to put in measures so that new planets in galaxies are more likely to be active accounts - even if that means you have to delay players getting started (training accounts, tutorial planets, get them to travel to their new home, etc.) so galaxies won't get irate with the number of inactive players.
Well, if they stop logging in, they automatically get deleted etc. Shouldnt be much of a problem really.
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Unread 16 Mar 2009, 00:49   #91
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

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Originally Posted by zPeti View Post
I have been talking to the admins about what the best way is to keep new players in the game.

I think many people have read the threads about how quite a lot of new players I being attacked and lose interest in the game because of it, or they are exiled from their galaxy etc etc.
I am looking for suggestions about what might solve this problem.

Secondly, I think something holding back a lot of new players, at least that was my experience, is that they have to chat on IRC. In a previous post I mentioned that I want to improve this, however PATeam has advised me that removing IRC completely would not work as many people would not be able to run bots on a simple chat system.

So, the second question is, is IRC so important that we cannot get rid of it?
Adding a browser based chatting system is a MUST for the next round, it is my top priority, however I have been unable to find a usable system.

I want new users to be able to click on "chat" in the menu and be able to talk to their galaxy members, or globally to everyone.
So the options are
1. either I try and code an IRC client myself
2. We get rid of IRC completely
3. IRC remains for old players to run their bots, while a seperate chat system works ingame

I am looking forward to all opinions.

Pete
Greetings, zPeti, and good luck to you in the universe of Planetarion!

Allthough I have not played PA for ages, I have a few opinions on a number of things here. Haha, no surprise there Your initial questions first though:

1: If noobs are attacked so much and leave because of it, protect them better or make them worthless targets. First-timers are your most valuable resource when it comes to future growth, and should be cared for. That said, the answer here is also tied to your IRC-question, which I belive is more of a communication-challenge. I'll get back to that.

2: If exiling is a problem, I'd consider getting rid of the whole ting. As Wishmaster has demonstrated, many hardcore players in Planetarion do not share your goals when it comes to growth, and puts galaxy-control and efficiency above it. This is not surprising, as the "best" players will play to win, regardless. Bt on a general term, if your users do things you would rather they didn't (i.e. multiple exiles, noob-bashing) you should of course limit it or prevent it if your #1 priority demands it.

3: Your IRC-question was obviously a hot potatoe, maybe hotter than you thought when I see some of the replies in here.
As most veterans will point out, IRC is a must. I both agree and disagree.
I think you should implement a simple ajax-driven galaxy-chat to allow instant and simple communicaiton inside the galaxy. It doesn't have to be fancy, or support PMs or anything like that, just a very quick way of communication live. Make a Galaxy-chat link in the menu, that opens up a popup, and have it look for new "content" every X seconds. It will create a little load, when it comes to server-requests, but as long as the backend call is specialized and you only transmit the new data every time, this shouldn't be much of a problem.
By all means, let IRC serve its purpose for the more experienced players and the alliances who can always take care of themselves, but create an alternative for your future customers.

I dare to say I am one of the few people who really understand the task you have ahead of you, and I wish you all the best as you know. I also hope that you have a "vision" of what you want to do with PA except "grow", and a plan of how you wish to make your vision a reality. And finally, I hope you have the guts to stick to your plan and vision, and base your descisions on those rather than on forum-posts made by players who have their own agendas. You are the one in charge, you are the one who can make the needed changes, and you are not wrong until your vision has been proved to be flawed or unrealistic.
To quote an inspirational source I use:
"If you aim for the stars, you can fail and still reach the skies. If you aim for just the skies, you can fail and end up flat on the ground."

Take good care of Planetarion and yourself. You know how to reach me.
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Unread 16 Mar 2009, 01:15   #92
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinner View Post

2: If exiling is a problem, I'd consider getting rid of the whole ting. As Wishmaster has demonstrated, many hardcore players in Planetarion do not share your goals when it comes to growth, and puts galaxy-control and efficiency above it. .
growth for the sake of growth is a failed plan ( ask the Icelandic banks )

For pa to grow it would have to change so much, that i dont really see the point in purchasing the Planetarion trademark, as non of the current players would be part of the new segment he would want to reach.

Also, getting alot of new players short term from facebook and other examples like it, might increase income at first, and then reduce it when the old core quits and the new ones dont stick around.

I really hope PA to grow again, but i dont agree with who they wish to cater for. Planetarion SHOULD be a game for no lifers and geeks. Regular people aint interested in browser based games which ticks every 60mins.
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I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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Unread 16 Mar 2009, 01:32   #93
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinner View Post
1: If noobs are attacked so much and leave because of it, protect them better or make them worthless targets. First-timers are your most valuable resource when it comes to future growth, and should be cared for. That said, the answer here is also tied to your IRC-question, which I belive is more of a communication-challenge. I'll get back to that.
The problem is, how to do that without ruining the current attack system. I'm much for making top players much much better targets (to the extent where you have to be hitting top players if you want a shot at #1.. instead of the current way of fence-sitting and noob podding). This could simply be done by changing the XP Formula, as it stands it allows late signups and crashers to regain score (and rank) but i think XP should be aimed towards high ranked players, where to get it you need to hit the top players in top galaxys (the actives) and you get a huge amount from it.. Making it more useful than value (in relation to ranks).

It would have the knock-on effect of less noob podding and fence sitting, as it forces players (and alliances) to hit the top planets for the hard roids to get up the ranks.

Quote:
2: If exiling is a problem, I'd consider getting rid of the whole ting. As Wishmaster has demonstrated, many hardcore players in Planetarion do not share your goals when it comes to growth, and puts galaxy-control and efficiency above it. This is not surprising, as the "best" players will play to win, regardless. Bt on a general term, if your users do things you would rather they didn't (i.e. multiple exiles, noob-bashing) you should of course limit it or prevent it if your #1 priority demands it.
I agree the buddy system and current exile system needs changing. However, simply turning off exiles isnt the solution.. more needs to be done to make inactives (or just new players) valuable members of the galaxy.

Quote:
3: Your IRC-question was obviously a hot potatoe, maybe hotter than you thought when I see some of the replies in here.
As most veterans will point out, IRC is a must. I both agree and disagree.
I think you should implement a simple ajax-driven galaxy-chat to allow instant and simple communicaiton inside the galaxy. It doesn't have to be fancy, or support PMs or anything like that, just a very quick way of communication live. Make a Galaxy-chat link in the menu, that opens up a popup, and have it look for new "content" every X seconds. It will create a little load, when it comes to server-requests, but as long as the backend call is specialized and you only transmit the new data every time, this shouldn't be much of a problem.
By all means, let IRC serve its purpose for the more experienced players and the alliances who can always take care of themselves, but create an alternative for your future customers.
The problem is, if this ajax-driven galaxy-chat isnt on netgamers IRC.. then who would join the galaxy channel? The actives would still just create a galaxy chan on IRC and not bother with the ajax chat.

All that needs to change, is each galaxy is given assigned a pre-registered channel and the com-unit automatically takes the user to that galaxy channel (On second thoughts, it doesnt even need to be pre-registered.. the GC or MoC could assign the galaxy channel under politics with a key).

Although i will say, the com-unit does need updating.
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Unread 16 Mar 2009, 01:44   #94
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
growth for the sake of growth is a failed plan ( ask the Icelandic banks )

For pa to grow it would have to change so much, that i dont really see the point in purchasing the Planetarion trademark, as non of the current players would be part of the new segment he would want to reach.

Also, getting alot of new players short term from facebook and other examples like it, might increase income at first, and then reduce it when the old core quits and the new ones dont stick around.

I really hope PA to grow again, but i dont agree with who they wish to cater for. Planetarion SHOULD be a game for no lifers and geeks. Regular people aint interested in browser based games which ticks every 60mins.
In my less-than-humble opinion, your opinion on why they bought the trademark is not really relevant here. I tried to buy it myself actually, but it seems my thin wallet didn't do the trick However, I can see several ways of "changing" Planetarion that would make it grow and attract more customers down the road.
I don't understand the logic behind your statement that getting a lot of new users (from facebook or otherwise) would result in old players leaving. Unless you are implying some other changes you don't mention that will make the game less suited for the veterans. I doubt any marketing-campaign, on facebook, IGN or CNN would cause anyone to leave the game...
Your statement about "regular people" not being intrested in a 1 hour tick game, is plain wrong. With more than 80.000 players in Utopia, the market is there. PA has indeed taken a tour down the "elitist" route, where it caters more and more for your so-called "no-lifers" and I bet that might change from here on and onwards. All established game-communities I have seen in my life, seem to have a tendency to resist change. This is in peoples nature as well, so it's no wonder. But some times, as a developer, you just need to have the guts to go ahead and do what you think is necesary. Utopia was around when we decided to create Planetarion in the first place, and one of the things that made PA really cool back in the days was that we dared to be different, and we dared to open up for massive cooperation in the universe. I fear we might also have opened up Pandoras box.

I do agree that "growth for the sake growth" is a bad route to take. PA needs a vision and a plan, and it needs to decide on a few important issues:
Should it be the largest sci-fi online game? (of its kind)
Should it be the most financially benefitting game? (of its kind)
Should it be the best game? (of its kind)
Should it be the least demanding game to host and run? (of its kind)
Should it be the most modern game of its kind, technically speaking?
Should it be the best looking game of its kind?

PA needs to find it's place on the web, and focus on what can bring it to that point. No, you can't say "yes" to all of the above points, as many of them are mutually exclusive. But once the goals are clear, it is possible to focus on how to reach the goal(s).
Back in the days when we started PA, we wanted PA to be "the game WE wanted to play" which meant "the best game of its kind" (in our opinion).
As long as we stuck to that, everything went well with PA. When we were diverted from that, things started to go downhill. (Corporate finance sucks).

As I see it, PA has a real chance of "a new beginning" (I think that was the name of round 2 or something). So I urge all veterans to support the new developers in any way you can, even if it means being nice to them for a while (-:
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Unread 16 Mar 2009, 01:55   #95
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
The problem is, how to do that without ruining the current attack system. I'm much for making top players much much better targets (to the extent where you have to be hitting top players if you want a shot at #1.. instead of the current way of fence-sitting and noob podding). This could simply be done by changing the XP Formula, as it stands it allows late signups and crashers to regain score (and rank) but i think XP should be aimed towards high ranked players, where to get it you need to hit the top players in top galaxys (the actives) and you get a huge amount from it.. Making it more useful than value (in relation to ranks).

I agree the buddy system and current exile system needs changing. However, simply turning off exiles isnt the solution.. more needs to be done to make inactives (or just new players) valuable members of the galaxy.

The problem is, if this ajax-driven galaxy-chat isnt on netgamers IRC.. then who would join the galaxy channel? The actives would still just create a galaxy chan on IRC and not bother with the ajax chat.

All that needs to change, is each galaxy is given assigned a pre-registered channel and the com-unit automatically takes the user to that galaxy channel (On second thoughts, it doesnt even need to be pre-registered.. the GC or MoC could assign the galaxy channel under politics with a key).

Although i will say, the com-unit does need updating.
I can't comment on the attack-system, as I no longer know how that, or the XP-system for that matter, works. I was trying to answer in more general terms. Same thing about the exiling.
When it comes to the chat though, you miss my point a bit (or I was simply not good at getting it across)
A Java-applet requires both Java to be installed (no, a new player is not going to go to java.com and do that just to try out something called the ComUnit), and potentially some firewall-settings to be adjusted (?). You need something easier and more convenient.
This chat doesn't have to be hooked up to Netgamers at all, as it would be a simple "shoutbox" that is for galaxy-members only. For all I know, it can be used just as a temporary thing for new members, and the place where GCs or MoCs can just grab the new guys and teach them about IRC. The point is, it is something that just works instantly, is in their face, and has no issues with firewalls or java not being installed.
I tried this in ManagerLeague, with great success, but as we reached too many users, we couldn't handle the load in the end. That said, ML is nowhere as dependant upon instant communication as PA is...Anyway, the load-issue can be resolved if there is hardware and bandwidth available!
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Unread 16 Mar 2009, 02:09   #96
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinner View Post
I can't comment on the attack-system, as I no longer know how that, or the XP-system for that matter, works. I was trying to answer in more general terms.
The attack system is the same as its always been basically. Only now the community is smaller, the flaws have come to light. I'll just do a quick run down of the problem:
1. I could a new player/inactive who has just 400 roids (most new players will get that before they are out of protection) in a crap galaxy and cap 100 roids. These roids are easy roids as there is very little chance of defence.
2. or I could attack a active player with 1200 roids, which now requires me teamup, these teamups are usually 3 players or more.. meaning if i land, i'll cap 100 roids maximum. These roids are hard roids, as there is a very high chance of defence.

Which one of those would most people choose to do? given the choice?

The XP system is just score with nothing 'physical' to back it up. Its just rewarded when you cap roids based on your planet score and there planet score (i.e. you gain more XP (i.e. Score) from landing on a planet with more score than yourself). So late starters who join teamups on bigger planets can quickly catch up score (as they'll be gaining more XP from the land than the bigger planets in the team).. so they may never catch up on number of ships (value) they have but will catch up rank due to the additional score (XP).

Quote:
When it comes to the chat though, you miss my point a bit (or I was simply not good at getting it across)
A Java-applet requires both Java to be installed (no, a new player is not going to go to java.com and do that just to try out something called the ComUnit), and potentially some firewall-settings to be adjusted (?). You need something easier and more convenient.
This chat doesn't have to be hooked up to Netgamers at all, as it would be a simple "shoutbox" that is for galaxy-members only. For all I know, it can be used just as a temporary thing for new members, and the place where GCs or MoCs can just grab the new guys and teach them about IRC. The point is, it is something that just works instantly, is in their face, and has no issues with firewalls or java not being installed.
I tried this in ManagerLeague, with great success, but as we reached too many users, we couldn't handle the load in the end. That said, ML is nowhere as dependant upon instant communication as PA is...Anyway, the load-issue can be resolved if there is hardware and bandwidth available!
Yeah i missed your point. A shoutbox would be a very nice addition, allowing quick and easy 'talk' between the galaxy. Actually, i seriously dont know why it hasnt been suggested before as its such a simple yet good feature to have.
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Unread 16 Mar 2009, 02:21   #97
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
The XP system is just score with nothing 'physical' to back it up. Its just rewarded when you cap roids based on your planet score and there planet score (i.e. you gain more XP (i.e. Score) from landing on a planet with more score than yourself).

xp is based on value not score
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Unread 16 Mar 2009, 02:24   #98
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinner View Post
In my less-than-humble opinion, your opinion on why they bought the trademark is not really relevant here. I tried to buy it myself actually, but it seems my thin wallet didn't do the trick However, I can see several ways of "changing" Planetarion that would make it grow and attract more customers down the road.
u created the game, and I think u made the bid for other reasons than financial ones <3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinner View Post
I don't understand the logic behind your statement that getting a lot of new users (from facebook or otherwise) would result in old players leaving. Unless you are implying some other changes you don't mention that will make the game less suited for the veterans. I doubt any marketing-campaign, on facebook, IGN or CNN would cause anyone to leave the game...
More people is always good. I just think that to attract them from places like fb etc, there would have to be done so drastically changes that it no longer would be the same -> the old players would leave.
And would be just as easy to just make a new game and call it something shit like Galaxytarion, and advertise it on fb for a completely diff. community / segment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinner View Post
Your statement about "regular people" not being intrested in a 1 hour tick game, is plain wrong. With more than 80.000 players in Utopia, the market is there. PA has indeed taken a tour down the "elitist" route, where it caters more and more for your so-called "no-lifers" and I bet that might change from here on and onwards. All established game-communities I have seen in my life, seem to have a tendency to resist change. This is in peoples nature as well, so it's no wonder. But some times, as a developer, you just need to have the guts to go ahead and do what you think is necesary. Utopia was around when we decided to create Planetarion in the first place, and one of the things that made PA really cool back in the days was that we dared to be different, and we dared to open up for massive cooperation in the universe. I fear we might also have opened up Pandoras box.
You are kinda answering my point in the end there. I tried Utopia pre-PA or around that period anyway. I didnt get addicted. I got addicted to PA
Some people will think Utopia kind of games are awesome, while I think most of the PA vets wouldnt. We want more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinner View Post
I do agree that "growth for the sake growth" is a bad route to take. PA needs a vision and a plan, and it needs to decide on a few important issues:
Should it be the largest sci-fi online game? (of its kind)
Should it be the most financially benefitting game? (of its kind)
Should it be the best game? (of its kind)
Should it be the least demanding game to host and run? (of its kind)
Should it be the most modern game of its kind, technically speaking?
Should it be the best looking game of its kind


PA needs to find it's place on the web, and focus on what can bring it to that point. No, you can't say "yes" to all of the above points, as many of them are mutually exclusive. But once the goals are clear, it is possible to focus on how to reach the goal(s).
Back in the days when we started PA, we wanted PA to be "the game WE wanted to play" which meant "the best game of its kind" (in our opinion).
As long as we stuck to that, everything went well with PA. When we were diverted from that, things started to go downhill. (Corporate finance sucks).
Yes, and I dont think its possible to both keep the current playerbase happy while catering to less "hardcore" casual gamers.
I do hope they proove me wrong though, and I ll give them an honest chance to do so.
Also, I think we have to remember that PA is from the last century! At the golden days of internet, where internet was still soemthing new and interesting and where communicating with someone, and playing with / against someone ONLINE was the coolest thing in the world.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinner View Post
As I see it, PA has a real chance of "a new beginning" (I think that was the name of round 2 or something). So I urge all veterans to support the new developers in any way you can, even if it means being nice to them for a while (-:
I remember I was totally devastated when I found out that PA would reset after a given time in r1. I had finally managed to get some roids, build some ships, and then it would all be resetted?!!?

happy days
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Unread 16 Mar 2009, 04:21   #99
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Stream line the Account details needed.

You only need Real Name, Planet, Ruler and email. All other information should be optional.
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Unread 16 Mar 2009, 10:08   #100
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Re: Keeping new Players / new chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinner View Post
So I urge all veterans to support the new developers in any way you can, even if it means being nice to them for a while (-:
omg omg the Spinner smile is back (-:

however i agree with the big man
and disagree with the other (sorry wish :P)

PA needs a Vision, not just some tweaks here and there
tweaks ruined the game step by step

sometimes your car needs a new engine instead of just new tires and a new front window

however i am aware it canīt be changed (coded) all at once
but if there is a vision, where PA should go
it shouldnīt be too hard to code step by step into this direction

and bringing in new blood and makin the game less hardcore is absolutely not what will ruin PA
its the other way round, as more and more hardcores leave PA anyhow, beeing it due to RL or other issues, or cause they are simply not willing anymore to invest the time which is needed to do good

the suggested Ajax Chat system sounds good, and is probably much easier to implement then trying to get irc/netgamers closer connected to the game.

and i post it again (to be ignored again)
4 things to be changed for the upcoming round (3)1

1) Production System (remove adding to diffrent factory order - light/med/heavy orders shall! not be mixed anymore)
2) Vacation Mode (remove the gayness of recalling pl attack fleets if going there (enable automatically fleets not to take part in battle in vac mode))
3) Bashing Limit connected to Galaxy Value/Score
4) Higher the exile costs dramatically for exiling planets (not selfexiling)
- and ppl will think twice to exile someone semi-active


READ THE BOLD PART !
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