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19 Aug 2005, 12:00
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#1
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Has Soup On His Head
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,095
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Mo Mowlam Dead
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4126986.stm
I await Eulogies, criticisms, and amusing jokes, though hopefully not in equal measures.
__________________
And the Banker, inspired with a courage so new
It was matter for general remark,
Rushed madly ahead and was lost to their view
In his zeal to discover the Snark
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19 Aug 2005, 12:01
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#2
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King of The Fat Boys
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 3,332
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Re: Mo Mowlem Dead
I never thought much of her to be honest. Though obviously it's a shame she's dead.
__________________
They mostly come at night. Mostly.
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19 Aug 2005, 12:05
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#3
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Made of Twigs
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,459
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Re: Mo Mowlem Dead
How eloquently put Kura...
She was, on the whole, a well liked politician, which seems qite rare these days.
__________________
If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor - James
It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am - Muhammad Ali
So **** y'all, all of y'all; if y'all don't like me, blow me! - Dr. Dre
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19 Aug 2005, 12:06
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#4
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Somewhere in Curse
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 82
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Re: Mo Mowlem Dead
:'(
__________________
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
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19 Aug 2005, 12:23
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#5
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a new low in getting high
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,810
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Re: Mo Mowlem Dead
she had cool hair
__________________
There’s trouble on every corner,
And you need a place to hide,
All the bad things follow us down,
I want you by my side.
We’re hitting a new low.
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19 Aug 2005, 12:27
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#6
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home wrecker
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The other side of the galaxy ;)
Posts: 1,041
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Re: Mo Mowlem Dead
yeah a good bloke mo mowlan, done a lot for the country.
__________________
May the Farce be with you...
#pr0nstars - a pimp is for life, not just for christmas
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19 Aug 2005, 12:28
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#7
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Made of Twigs
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,459
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Re: Mo Mowlem Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAdnRisKy
yeah a good bloke mo mowlan, done a lot for the country.
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Dude, she was a she.
__________________
If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor - James
It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am - Muhammad Ali
So **** y'all, all of y'all; if y'all don't like me, blow me! - Dr. Dre
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19 Aug 2005, 12:31
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#8
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Lord Denning
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: City of London
Posts: 2,548
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Re: Mo Mowlem Dead
I wish some rubbish Labour politicians would die for a change.
__________________
Please bear in mind when reading the above post that I am always right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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19 Aug 2005, 12:49
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#9
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: Mo Mowlem Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
Actually a labour peer died the other day, but no one gave a shit.
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Have they removed him from the chamber yet?
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19 Aug 2005, 12:53
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,174
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Re: Mo Mowlem Dead
nah hes still proping up the others that are about to fall
shame about mo tho, who will take her place writing in zoo :/
__________________
If one person is in delusion, they're called insane.
If many people are in delusion, it's called a religion.
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19 Aug 2005, 12:59
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#11
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
It's a shame neither her nor Cook were competitors in 'Who Will Die First?' Someone could have gotten a lot of points from this last month.
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19 Aug 2005, 13:18
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#12
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Mathamagician
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: At the very edge of existance
Posts: 1,803
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
it should've been Gerald Ford .
__________________
I think I just had an evilgasm
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19 Aug 2005, 13:43
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#13
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Damn Dog
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,249
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
apprently she once told ian paisley to '**** off'. which is pretty cool. but she was also a nulabour minister, which isnt.
__________________
"that's a stupid thing to say and you're a stupid person for saying it."
the tolling gang
Last edited by the_dastardley_chihuahua; 19 Aug 2005 at 13:50.
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19 Aug 2005, 13:46
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#14
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
Gordon Brown got another one i see.
__________________
hi
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19 Aug 2005, 13:47
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#15
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,635
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
I liked Mo. RIP.
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19 Aug 2005, 13:52
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#16
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
Mo was definetley the best thing to happen to Redcar, since, well, ever.
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19 Aug 2005, 14:00
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#17
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nomen est omen
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 1,095
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
I don`t think Jerry Adams will shed a tear. During the Northern Island peace talks, Mo was the Northern Island secretary that authorised the bugging of the car Jerry Adams and other Sinn Fein members were using. Afterwards Mr Adams said "I feel as if I`ve been shafted".
__________________
Me=Hans_Blix
Views expressed are those of the author and not of any company or organisation I am associated with. Electronic communication can be forged and the integrity of this message is not guaranteed.
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19 Aug 2005, 14:02
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#18
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by pyirt
Afterwards Mr Adams said "I feel as if I`ve been shafted".
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He wasn't impying that was a bad thing, you know.
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19 Aug 2005, 14:04
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#19
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
I'm fairly glad she's dead.
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19 Aug 2005, 14:05
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#20
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Aardvark is a funny word
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,923
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I'm fairly glad she's dead.
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any reason that elevates her over any other MP?
__________________
Efficiency, efficiency they say
Get to know the date and tell the time of day
As the crowds begin complaining
How the Beaujolais is raining
Down on darkened meetings on the Champs Élysées
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19 Aug 2005, 14:07
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#21
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I'm fairly glad she's dead.
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If I shot Tony Blair, George Bush, Thatcher, Putin and Castro, would you be shuddering in orgasm?
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19 Aug 2005, 14:07
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#22
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
any reason that elevates her over any other MP?
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She was a minister.
But no, nothing that elevates her beyond her immediate colleagues.
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19 Aug 2005, 14:09
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#23
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
If I shot Tony Blair, George Bush, Thatcher, Putin and Castro, would you be shuddering in orgasm?
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I don't feel Castro fits in that list.
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19 Aug 2005, 14:14
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#24
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I don't feel Castro fits in that list.
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I thought you didn't like statist queer-bashers?
Ian Paisley, then?
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19 Aug 2005, 14:18
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#25
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
I thought you didn't like statist queer-bashers?
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There's a lot of people I don't like, but that doesn't quite equate them to Putin or Bush or what-not. It's not a "Love" vs "Shot Through The Lungs" dichotomy.
I'd be fairly pleased if he died, but I wouldn't advocate / support his murder. My mother would though, the Catholic tramp that she is.
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19 Aug 2005, 14:24
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#26
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
There's a lot of people I don't like, but that doesn't quite equate them to Putin or Bush or what-not.
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I'm struggling to see how Castro is qualitatively all that different to Putin. Castro has just had decades more experience over Putin. Oh, and Putin controls a more important country than Cuba. Same goes for the others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I'd be fairly pleased if he died,
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I thought that if we killed off a load of high-ranking reactionaries, your pleasure might be able to be multiplied to the extent where you would actually orgasm. I mean, you're "fairly pleased" by lowly Mo dying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
but I wouldn't advocate / support his murder.
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Jesus. I would. I'd ****ing whoop.
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19 Aug 2005, 14:25
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#27
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Aardvark is a funny word
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,923
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
There's a lot of people I don't like, but that doesn't quite equate them to Putin or Bush or what-not. It's not a "Love" vs "Shot Through The Lungs" dichotomy.
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explain exactly why Fidel Castro is preferable to Tony Blair.
edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
Jesus. I would. I'd ****ing whoop.
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seconded.
__________________
Efficiency, efficiency they say
Get to know the date and tell the time of day
As the crowds begin complaining
How the Beaujolais is raining
Down on darkened meetings on the Champs Élysées
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19 Aug 2005, 14:28
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#28
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
explain exactly why Fidel Castro is preferable to Tony Blair.
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Castro says he's in favour of Socialism whereas Blair doesn't. This makes him preferable to Blair, obviously.
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19 Aug 2005, 14:31
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#29
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J to the C to the A G E
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Scúnthorpe
Posts: 5,583
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
She wasn't very hot.
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19 Aug 2005, 14:47
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#30
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
explain exactly why Fidel Castro is preferable to Tony Blair.
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Castro has done a hell of a lot more good than Blair.
Castro has gone wrong many times but some of his crimes/errors can be attributed to the situation he and his country is in. If Britain was being blockaded by (say) France, if the French intelligence services had actively attempted to kill Blair on numerous ocassions, if the French government supported terrorist attacks on Britain then I might have some sympathy if Blair then (say) imprisoned some of his enemies.
This does not make these measures alright of course, but actions must be understood in the light of the context they occur in. "Being mildly evil" when your situation is pretty ****ing dire is somewhat more understandable than being mildly evil when you're in a position of power. This should be fairly obvious.
Of course some other acts (e.g. homophobic laws, etc) are completely criminal but unsurprising given the region. "Our" (i.e. the United States & Britain) allies in the region have worse records on this and other issues.
There are other factors of course - if you look at foriegn intervention for instance and compare Cuban intervention in (say) Angola versus British involvement in Iraq then the former comes out favourably.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MM
I thought that if we killed off a load of high-ranking reactionaries, your pleasure might be able to be multiplied to the extent where you would actually orgasm. I mean, you're "fairly pleased" by lowly Mo dying.
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It doesn't really work like that. If someone is murdered it rarely ends well (no pun intended). In terms of assasinations and what-not then there's only a handful of examples I can think of which led to practical benefits. If you killed Ian Paisely (for instance) all that would happen would the retards in the UVF et al would get a bunch of new recruits. If you killed Tony Blair you'd get some extra "war on terror" stuff.
What is the consequences of Mo dying? A backlash against cancer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MM
Castro says he's in favour of Socialism whereas Blair doesn't. This makes him preferable to Blair, obviously.
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This is silly, as you're well aware.
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19 Aug 2005, 14:57
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#31
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
dante dear.
you really are turning into a condescending little shit.
__________________
hi
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19 Aug 2005, 14:58
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#32
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Aardvark is a funny word
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,923
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
This does not make these measures alright of course, but actions must be understood in the light of the context they occur in. "Being mildly evil" when your situation is pretty ****ing dire is somewhat more understandable than being mildly evil when you're in a position of power. This should be fairly obvious.
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it is obvious. But I find it hard to group Castro in with Blair, evil-wise. I don't like everything Blair has done, of course not, but life is mostly better, and the ways in which it has been made worse (civil liberties) are almost all moves supported by all of mainstream British politics - and either accept this as justification or retract your 'unsurprising given the region' caveat about Castro.
In Cuba, on the other hand, the problem is far more severe. Human rights are few, and there isn't even a sense of security as recompense. Castro has done some great things, but insofar as he is able, so has Blair. Castro introduced public healthcare? Great. Blair couldn't, because we already had it, but he's done a hell of a lot to make it better. Castro's provided excellent education for Cuba? marvellous. Blair's done what he can to make it even better here.
To draw some sort of point from that paragraph, Blair has done more good, considering his means, than Castro has, and Blair has done less evil, considering his means, than Castro has.
__________________
Efficiency, efficiency they say
Get to know the date and tell the time of day
As the crowds begin complaining
How the Beaujolais is raining
Down on darkened meetings on the Champs Élysées
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19 Aug 2005, 15:10
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#33
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
it is obvious. But I find it hard to group Castro in with Blair, evil-wise. I don't like everything Blair has done, of course not, but life is mostly better
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Life is almost exactly the same as before Blair. There are some very minor changes (i.e. student fees vs non-student fees, increase in spending on the NHS vs reduced spending, some devolution) but they really are peripheral changes. Obviously we also foriegn intervention too, which I've mentioned.
Quote:
and the ways in which it has been made worse (civil liberties) are almost all moves supported by all of mainstream British politics - and either accept this as justification or retract your 'unsurprising given the region' caveat about Castro.
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It wasn't an excuse for him, merely that it's unsurprising. It's unsurprising some people who grew up in abusive households in our society murder or rape, but this does not make it OK. The situation of homosexuals in Cuba (and elsewhere) is unsurprising but it is still very depressing.
Quote:
In Cuba, on the other hand, the problem is far more severe. Human rights are few
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I'd really need for you to define this more fully before I could comment. When you say "few", what do you mean? Cuba is not a totalitarian society. Yes, people who protest / demonstrate are routinely jailed (again, far less so that in some countries to which we give support - even as close as Turkey) and this is fundamentally wrong and evil. The people doing the jailing would, ideally, face serious criminal charges for their actions. But this is not the same as saying "human rights are few" (unless you mean something specific).
Quote:
Castro has done some great things, but insofar as he is able, so has Blair. Castro introduced public healthcare? Great. Blair couldn't, because we already had it
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What "great" things has Blair done?
But anyway, your point about "not being able to do things which has already been done" is formally correct but slightly strange. I cannot claim to be a better physicist than Einstein because he (among other things) developed the Theory of Relativity and I did not. The fact that I could not have done so is somewhat irrelevent when handing round props.
edit : Or perhaps more directly, "Well Blair couldn't have won WW2 since it's already finished, so therefore you can't include that as a postivie for Churchill"
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19 Aug 2005, 15:21
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#34
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,635
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
Mo Mowlam dies.
GD starts a 'who's better? Tony Blair or Castro?' debate.
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19 Aug 2005, 15:22
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#35
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Aardvark is a funny word
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,923
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
I assume this is some sort of joke.
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I assume you are some sort of tabloid reader.
Dante;
Quote:
edit : Or perhaps more directly, "Well Blair couldn't have won WW2 since it's already finished, so therefore you can't include that as a postivie for Churchill"
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I'm not saying it's not a positive for Castro, I'm saying that Blair's achievements have to be judged against a different standard. Upon taking power, Castro had much to do and did some of it, whereas Blair had little to do and did almost all of it.
__________________
Efficiency, efficiency they say
Get to know the date and tell the time of day
As the crowds begin complaining
How the Beaujolais is raining
Down on darkened meetings on the Champs Élysées
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19 Aug 2005, 15:28
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#36
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
Dante; I'm not saying it's not a positive for Castro, I'm saying that Blair's achievements have to be judged against a different standard.
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I agree. Which is why my original post was that Castro was out of place in the list that Manson gave.
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19 Aug 2005, 15:34
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#37
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Aardvark is a funny word
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,923
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I agree. Which is why my original post was that Castro was out of place in the list that Manson gave.
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so you're in favour of people who build and destroy their countries on a large scale rather than a small scale?
__________________
Efficiency, efficiency they say
Get to know the date and tell the time of day
As the crowds begin complaining
How the Beaujolais is raining
Down on darkened meetings on the Champs Élysées
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19 Aug 2005, 15:38
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#38
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
so you're in favour of people who build and destroy their countries on a large scale rather than a small scale?
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Did I say that?
Manson posted a list of :
Tony Blair, George Bush, Thatcher, Putin and Castro.
Now, to me Castro does not fit this list. The others are, to use your terms, to be judged by different standards. You're the only one who brought into "why is Castro favourable to Blair" which was not my point at all (although I'm happy to discuss that of course).
edit : But to answer your question, when comparing individuals I'd say someone who achieved a lot of good and did some evil things is probably preferable to someone who did very little good and some evil things.
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19 Aug 2005, 15:44
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#39
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home wrecker
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The other side of the galaxy ;)
Posts: 1,041
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Re: Mo Mowlem Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew
Dude, she was a she.
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reeeeeeeally
__________________
May the Farce be with you...
#pr0nstars - a pimp is for life, not just for christmas
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19 Aug 2005, 15:46
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#40
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overtired
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,900
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
I didn't know her first name was Marjorie until today. Maybe it'll be asked in a trivia game someday, or perhaps a hard question on 'who wants to be a millionaire'.
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19 Aug 2005, 16:08
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#41
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Insomniac
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,583
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Castro has done a hell of a lot more good than Blair.
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There was a poll somewhere, cant remember where but on it, uk businessman ranked hitler above blair as their most impressive leader of all time
I found that rather amusing personally
edit: found it. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/08/18/blair_poll/
Last edited by Phil^; 19 Aug 2005 at 16:15.
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19 Aug 2005, 16:25
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#42
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
I assume you are some sort of tabloid reader.
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Are you saying education standards are improving, or that Blair is honestly trying to improve education standards?
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19 Aug 2005, 16:28
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#43
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Mathamagician
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: At the very edge of existance
Posts: 1,803
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
I dislike Blair because I have to pay for my education. Thus I will dance on his grave.
__________________
I think I just had an evilgasm
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19 Aug 2005, 16:28
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#44
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Aardvark is a funny word
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,923
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
edit : But to answer your question, when comparing individuals I'd say someone who achieved a lot of good and did some evil things is probably preferable to someone who did very little good and some evil things.
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why is good quantifiable and evil not?
because surely you can't claim blair has done more to oppress his people than castro has
__________________
Efficiency, efficiency they say
Get to know the date and tell the time of day
As the crowds begin complaining
How the Beaujolais is raining
Down on darkened meetings on the Champs Élysées
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19 Aug 2005, 16:35
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#45
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Aardvark is a funny word
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,923
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Are you saying education standards are improving, or that Blair is honestly trying to improve education standards?
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both.
By every measurable standard that I am aware of this is the case, and it is only in this country that increasing pass rates are actually seen as a problem.
Oh, and Lestat? Top-up fees and tuition fees are great because it means only people who benefit from them pay. Imagine the backlash if road tax or tobacco tax was absorbed into income tax
__________________
Efficiency, efficiency they say
Get to know the date and tell the time of day
As the crowds begin complaining
How the Beaujolais is raining
Down on darkened meetings on the Champs Élysées
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19 Aug 2005, 16:38
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#46
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Mathamagician
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: At the very edge of existance
Posts: 1,803
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
True, but if I have to pay to go to uni i'd like it to be performance related, ie no fee for first, some for 2:1, most of it for 2:2 and full fee's if you drop out or fail.
__________________
I think I just had an evilgasm
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19 Aug 2005, 16:41
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#47
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Aardvark is a funny word
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,923
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by vampire_lestat
True, but if I have to pay to go to uni i'd like it to be performance related, ie no fee for first, some for 2:1, most of it for 2:2 and full fee's if you drop out or fail.
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fortunately, the people running the country aren't quite so stupid.
__________________
Efficiency, efficiency they say
Get to know the date and tell the time of day
As the crowds begin complaining
How the Beaujolais is raining
Down on darkened meetings on the Champs Élysées
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19 Aug 2005, 16:51
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#48
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Mathamagician
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: At the very edge of existance
Posts: 1,803
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
explain why that is a bad idea. It acts as an incentive to work hard, and performance is rewarded.
__________________
I think I just had an evilgasm
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19 Aug 2005, 16:51
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#49
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
it means only people who benefit from them pay.
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the country benefits.
fool.
__________________
hi
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19 Aug 2005, 17:01
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#50
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Aardvark is a funny word
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,923
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Re: Mo Mowlam Dead
if it was, say, the army, paid education and performance bonuses would make sense.
unfortunately, these people don't go and work for the common good, they go and work for japanese banks or american accountants or german engineering firms or whoever the hell else. Not only do they not contribute to the nation (tax aside), they harm the balance of payments.
Of course an educated workforce is a great boon, but it's not like they're all sitting there working towards some enlightened altruistic end.
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Efficiency, efficiency they say
Get to know the date and tell the time of day
As the crowds begin complaining
How the Beaujolais is raining
Down on darkened meetings on the Champs Élysées
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