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19 Jun 2006, 11:38
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#1
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: Your album
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
its pretty ****ing near impossible for most people to take a female artist seriously.
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By "most people" you mean you, don't you?
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19 Jun 2006, 11:58
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#2
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Bored
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nottm ->Shef ->Croydon ->Manc ->Durham ->Sheffield
Posts: 6,506
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Re: Your album
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
Its an inbuilt prejudice to think "pop" when you hear a female voice.
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Bollocks - Skunk Anansie, My Ruin, Distillers etc etc DON'T sound pop.
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19 Jun 2006, 11:58
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#3
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Registered Awesome Person
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
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Re: Your album
Nope!
On my computer I found Air (2 albums), some poppy female artists (Avril, Charlotte Church , Christina Aguilera), Dido (2 albums), Evanescence, Goldfrapp (2 albums), Imogen Heap (<3), Jem, KT Tunstall, Ladytron, Madonna, Scissor Sisters, etc. I've only included albums.
Now, aside from my shocking taste in music, it should be fairly obvious that most of those artists aren't really pop (aside from the ones I said were). So it may just be you - or it might just be me
What I noticed more was a tendency for female artists to go solo as opposed to working with a band (or, at least, one which is as important as them). In contrast, male-only bands rarely have figureheads (Coldplay being an exception).
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19 Jun 2006, 12:01
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#4
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Bored
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nottm ->Shef ->Croydon ->Manc ->Durham ->Sheffield
Posts: 6,506
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Re: Your album
Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
What I noticed more was a tendency for female artists to go solo as opposed to working with a band (or, at least, one which is as important as them). In contrast, male-only bands rarely have figureheads (Coldplay being an exception).
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Or more like the female singers that make it into the mainstream chart thing do it by going solo.
And I'm trying really hard to think of a male-only band that DOESN'T have a figurehead. I can think of a few with 2 I guess... (maybe the Beatles?)
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19 Jun 2006, 12:05
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#5
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: Your album
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
Its an inbuilt prejudice to think "pop" when you hear a female voice.
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I am sorry for fagging up your thread Deffeh*, but it'd be a lot easier to avoid doing this if you avoid rather OTT generalisations. Maybe you think pop when hear a female voice. Maybe all your friends do. Maybe most of the people on these forums would agree. But trying to universalise is unhelpful. It's the telepathy thing again.
(I shalln't post again on this topic, although I shall hopefully come back later to answer your question)
* No, I am really.
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19 Jun 2006, 12:33
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#6
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Aardvark is a funny word
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,923
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Re: Your album
with regards to major label music, deffeh is mostly right: for every ladytron/imogen heap/isobel campbell/whoever where there is a female singer and they are making interesting music and pounding choons, there are a trillion dido/charlotte church/norah jones types. as far as male acts goes, there's still a mountain of shit, but most interesting music uses a male vocalist simply because a female voice wouldn't fit over it.
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19 Jun 2006, 12:35
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#7
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Registered Awesome Person
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
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Re: Your album
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
And I'm trying really hard to think of a male-only band that DOESN'T have a figurehead. I can think of a few with 2 I guess... (maybe the Beatles?)
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Just name all of the new bands that have cropped up over the last few years, none of them really have figureheads like Bono is to U2 or Chris Martin is to Coldplay. The music media always seems to flock to the lead singers (e.g. Brandon Flowers/The Killers), but the image is of the band as a whole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
Some of the examples people have given are avril, charlotte church, christina, evanescence, scissor sisters, kt tunstall, madonna. All pop.
Even some of the female artists / singers i like, are pop. The corrs, for example.
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We're now getting onto what you define as pop. You may as well define bands such as Oasis and Blur as pop, since they're popular. Pop music in my eyes is the music of Britney, Westlife, Nelly Furtado, etc.
KT Tunstall/Joss Stone/Katie Melua/Dido may be popular, but their music isn't pop in my eyes - they belong in a category with Jack Johnson (as a male example).
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19 Jun 2006, 12:37
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#8
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: Your album
I've always found sarah brightman to be a fantastic singer, would she be classified as pop?
PS Not sorry for fagging up the thread, rage against the machine!
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Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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19 Jun 2006, 13:49
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#9
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Aardvark is a funny word
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,923
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do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
Deffeh certainly thinks so, but then Deffeh believes in deleting any thread that isn't going according to his Grand Plan. Discussion was starting to open up on this topic until all their posts were spirited away on wings of ego and petulance, but we can try again I suppose.
My two cents were that major label tendencies have created a situation whereby a greater proportion of widely-available female-fronted bands are complete shit than of male-fronted bands, and that a female singer wouldn't work for a lot of good bands due to different vocal ranges. However, the number of decent female-fronted acts - the kills, goldfrapp, ladytron, the knife, be your own pet for example - shows that this isn't about legitimacy as much as it is about only the shit female singers getting exposure.
__________________
Efficiency, efficiency they say
Get to know the date and tell the time of day
As the crowds begin complaining
How the Beaujolais is raining
Down on darkened meetings on the Champs Élysées
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19 Jun 2006, 13:51
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#10
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Re: do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
PJ Harvey, for another example. Placebo, too, as Molko surely counts.
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19 Jun 2006, 14:01
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#11
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
I think Deffeh misunderstood my last post in that thread. I didn't mean he was generalising about female singers, I meant that he was generalising by assuming his opinion was shared by the rest of humanity.
edit : This breaks my previous promise, I suck. I should have said I won't post in that thread about this topic but that's all irrelevant now!
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19 Jun 2006, 14:01
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#12
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
Look at me, I rescue posts!
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Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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19 Jun 2006, 14:02
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#13
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Bored
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nottm ->Shef ->Croydon ->Manc ->Durham ->Sheffield
Posts: 6,506
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Re: do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
Yeah Yeah Yeahs
Skunk Anansie
Distillers
My Ruin
Portishead
None of those can be described as "pop". And they're all good as well.
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19 Jun 2006, 14:03
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#14
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so f*cking zen
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hitting Bottom
Posts: 8,499
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Re: do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
My two cents were that major label tendencies have created a situation whereby a greater proportion of widely-available female-fronted bands are complete shit than of male-fronted bands, and that a female singer wouldn't work for a lot of good bands due to different vocal ranges.
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Are you saying that female fronted "corporate bands" choose they're female singers based more on looks than on talent?
Are you also saying that male fronted "corporate bands" tend to choose they're male singers based on talent (with looks only as a contributing factor)?
Are you also (also) saying that women couldnt work for good bands cause they couldnt hack it vocally?
This is not a troll. I'm just finding the way you phrased thing difficult to understand.
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On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
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19 Jun 2006, 14:07
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#15
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Bored
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nottm ->Shef ->Croydon ->Manc ->Durham ->Sheffield
Posts: 6,506
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Re: Your album
Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Just name all of the new bands that have cropped up over the last few years, none of them really have figureheads like Bono is to U2 or Chris Martin is to Coldplay. The music media always seems to flock to the lead singers (e.g. Brandon Flowers/The Killers), but the image is of the band as a whole.
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I don't think you can compare bands with vastly different popularities.
Coldplay and U2 are much more famous than most bands that have cropped up over the last few years.
Quote:
KT Tunstall/Joss Stone/Katie Melua/Dido may be popular, but their music isn't pop in my eyes - they belong in a category with Jack Johnson (as a male example).
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So pop then.
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19 Jun 2006, 14:12
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#16
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so f*cking zen
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hitting Bottom
Posts: 8,499
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Re: do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
With regards to how many female singers i have in my album collection the answer is 3.
Natalie Imbruglia - Left of the Middle
Nelly Furtado - Loose
Coldplay - Parachutes
Chris Martin may pretend to be a man but having a vagina technically makes him a woman.
Also the Coldplay album is the only one i'm embarassed about possessing.
__________________
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
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19 Jun 2006, 14:14
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#17
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Aardvark is a funny word
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,923
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Re: do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dace
Are you saying that female fronted "corporate bands" choose they're female singers based more on looks than on talent?
Are you also saying that male fronted "corporate bands" tend to choose they're male singers based on talent (with looks only as a contributing factor)?
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i suppose so, yes, although "commercial pop music" is an androgynous shitfest in the first place. exposition below.
Quote:
Are you also (also) saying that women couldnt work for good bands cause they couldnt hack it vocally?
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what i am saying is that a lot of decent bands use a male vocalist to better effect than they would use a female vocalist, but there is a more simple point that can be made here. more male vocalists in non-top 40 bands are in guitar-driven four-pieces than women, and more women are solo folk-pop types - norah jones et al - than men. the latter genre is broadly worse than the former. in the case of guitar-driven four-pieces, a deeper voice is often welcome/neccessary for the song to work, so there's an extra reason why most decent bands (you know the point i'm making here) are male-fronted. however, there are plenty of decent female-fronted acts too. it's just about trends: record labels go for women for shit and men for decent, and women go for shit and men for decent music. it doesn't mean women can't make good music any more than it means men can't make shit.
__________________
Efficiency, efficiency they say
Get to know the date and tell the time of day
As the crowds begin complaining
How the Beaujolais is raining
Down on darkened meetings on the Champs Élysées
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19 Jun 2006, 14:24
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#18
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
I've decided to reduce the deffeh quotient of this thread by 100%.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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19 Jun 2006, 14:27
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#19
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DarK_AnGeL^
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Cheshire, ph33r me
Posts: 73
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Re: do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
That's always a much welcomed move
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DarK_AnGeL^
Proud to have been in :
The Empire, Suicide Kings[TLoG], Wolfpack,
VtS, CpV, RAH, ND, Jenova, xVx, Ascendancy, Rainbows, Kittenz, Faceless, Ironborn and RED.
Played in rounds :
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,9.5,
20, 22, 23, 24, 27, 30, 31
71 - 85.
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19 Jun 2006, 14:32
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#20
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
The modding here has amused me greatly.
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19 Jun 2006, 14:42
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#21
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
The modding here has amused me greatly.
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I was going to go for parody and delete the entire forums but I thought that would be "a bridge too far".
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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19 Jun 2006, 15:16
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#22
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Registered Awesome Person
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
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Re: do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
I think GD's seen more modding today than in the last 6 months. Bad Jonny!
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Finally free!
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19 Jun 2006, 15:26
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#23
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Registered Awesome Person
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
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Re: Your album
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
I don't think you can compare bands with vastly different popularities.
Coldplay and U2 are much more famous than most bands that have cropped up over the last few years.
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I'm comparing frontmen, not the popularity of the bands themselves. A couple of years ago, no-one could get enough of The Killers.
As an alternative to the bands I mentioned, Jack White is obviously the frontman of The White Stripes, while Pete Doherty is by his very nature the frontman of The Libertines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste
So pop then.
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If you say so
The other day I saw a good description of Jack Johnson as 'Lo-Fi' - and I'd argue that not only do the female artists I mentioned fit into this category, but that the category itself is separate from pop music, albeit associated with it. A characteristic of the genre would be its very strong album sales but comparatively low individual single sales.
The entire debate is pointless since it rests on semantics. One man's pink is another man's light red. You call it pop, I call it something else. There's little more to resolve, unless you think that the Pussycat Dolls produce the same music as Joss Stone.
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19 Jun 2006, 15:53
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#24
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Mr. Blobby
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Belgium
Posts: 8,271
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Re: do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
This thread is not complete without mention of the Guano Apes.
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19 Jun 2006, 16:41
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#25
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so f*cking zen
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hitting Bottom
Posts: 8,499
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Re: Your album
Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
As an alternative to the bands I mentioned, Jack White is obviously the frontman of The White Stripes, while Pete Doherty is by his very nature the biggest twat that i'm aware of.
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edited for truth
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19 Jun 2006, 17:25
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#26
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Guy next door
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 4,745
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Re: do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
I have difficulties taking anyone serious speaking to much in terms as 'pop' and 'emo' when speaking about music, people are too much concerned with the genres the industry puts on them. It annoys the **** out of me.
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19 Jun 2006, 18:38
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#27
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Love's Sweet Exile
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Living on a Stair (Now Sword-less)
Posts: 2,371
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Re: do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
Sleater Kinney seem to have been left out- a fairly successful all-female group with no figurehead.
On an almost related note, I noticed in the papers at the weekend that the Talulah Gosh the indie-pop group) singer is in a new band who have an album out soon, I'm a bit interested in hearing what it sounds like...
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19 Jun 2006, 18:53
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,094
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Re: do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
i don't get it wheres deffeh? people reffeered to him but hes invisible? what happened? female singers are ok as long as they're hot.
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19 Jun 2006, 18:53
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#29
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mmm lambs
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: London
Posts: 1,906
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Re: do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
I don't really have a problem with taking female singers seriously but going through my music collection there does seem to be very few albums by bands who do have one.
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I drink therefore I am
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19 Jun 2006, 19:23
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Re: do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
Female singers are awesome because seriously, who wants to watch a music video thats just a bunch of guys sitting around? Avril Lavigne is the perfect example of a singer who is hot enough to make her videos worth watching, without losing any of her artistic integrity.
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19 Jun 2006, 19:31
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,094
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Re: do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
she has a big nose
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19 Jun 2006, 19:44
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Re: do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by milo
she has a big nose
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No I do not think that is true also it is ironic that you are saying this because it precisely your shallow aestethic sensibilities that she is defining her art in opposition to, for example when she says
Quote:
she had a pretty face,
but her head was up in space
she needed to come back down to earth
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Avril is obviously talking about the need to transcend arbitrary social standards of prettyness in order to discover true beauty, rather than getting hung up on superficial details like the size of a person's nose
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19 Jun 2006, 19:50
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#33
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WANNASEEMYNEWCHAINSAW
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Éire
Posts: 2,738
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Re: do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
Lacuna Coil.
**** you, checkmate. Great female lead, can sing, vocals suit the heavy rock/metal, has numerous "legitimate musican" fans, hot as ****, could probably kick the living shit out of you and is far more entertaining on stage than most lead male singers I've seen.
So Deffeh, yeah maybe it's just yourself. I still <3 you though.
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19 Jun 2006, 21:42
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#34
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Baron Samedi
Join Date: May 2001
Location: I'm not idimmu
Posts: 62
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Re: do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
I totally dig female singers! Going watching Pretty Girls Make Graves next month, and Lacuna Coil later on in the year.
__________________
Victims, aren't we all?
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19 Jun 2006, 22:41
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#35
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so f*cking zen
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hitting Bottom
Posts: 8,499
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Re: do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Female singers are awesome because seriously, who wants to watch a music video thats just a bunch of guys sitting around? Avril Lavigne is the perfect example of a singer who is hot enough to make her videos worth watching, without losing any of her artistic integrity.
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I knew you were being facetious even before i read your next post i'm THAT good at the internet.
__________________
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
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19 Jun 2006, 22:55
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#36
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:alpha:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 7,871
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Re: do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
the only female artist I can think of that i'm seriously keen on is Aimee Mann
oh and Skunk Anansie but she looks a bit like a man so does that count
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20 Jun 2006, 13:41
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#37
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
When Deffeh (or anyone else) says "I can't take female lead singers seriously" what he's actually saying is "My experience of bands is generally quite shallow, and consequently pretty much the only female-lead band I know is Girls Aloud."
There are plenty of good bands with female leads, open your ****ing eyes you knobrot.
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20 Jun 2006, 17:38
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#38
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:alpha:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 7,871
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Re: do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
When Deffeh (or anyone else) says "I can't take female lead singers seriously" what he's actually saying is "My experience of bands is generally quite shallow, and consequently pretty much the only female-lead band I know is Girls Aloud."
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I take Girls Aloud seriously.
So Girls Aloud? If you're reading? I take you seriously.
I respect you.
I admire you.
Let's have sex
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"There is no I in team, but there are two in anal fisting"
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20 Jun 2006, 17:41
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#39
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Raaaaaaaah!
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,296
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Re: do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
Not with the ginger one Thomas she is gross
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Hicks
Mercury & Solace
Always [Fury]
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20 Jun 2006, 18:50
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#40
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Vermin Supreme
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 3,280
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Re: do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
while i previously had a perfect 'Augusta National' music collection (starring Jimi "Tiger" Hendrix), Mezzanine has a female voice on several tracks,
so i think my collection is now diverse enough to compete for federal contracts.
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20 Jun 2006, 19:13
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#41
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Dum Di Dum Di
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 858
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Re: do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by IncubusGod
Lacuna Coil.
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+ Nightwish, Within Temptation, Tristania, Leaves Eyes or pretty much every single goth-metal group there is.
On my current playlist, alphabetically up to D I've got: Bertine Zetliz (f*cking ace), Alannis Morisette, Cranberries and the Divinyls ('I thouch myself' ftw!)
I understand some of you having trouble naming decent female leads though..with you brits being way too into Brit-pop and shit music and all ..
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21 Jun 2006, 12:05
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#42
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 161
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Re: do female lead singers lack legitimacy?
The Distillers
The Soviettes
HorrorPops
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