Players Against Cheats and Abusers.

[Forest]

A new player based initiative has been set up, in a bid to destroy the hopes of cheats.

Before the flames start, I must say, im not expecting much support on this. WE dont care.

WE have decided that its time the players fight back. Its time WE took back control from the cheats who ruin this game from those who play fairly. And WE do it our way.

So, how does it work?

Anyone can report cheats/abusers/ppl who make vile threats and obsceneties that we shouldnt have to put up with playing a game. This can be done at [email protected]

Does it work? Rarely. PATeam have their hands tied so much that most ppl talk their way out of any given situation. No longer will PACA accept this.

From now on, anyone can make a report of cheating/abuse to #PACA and it will be investigated.

WE will follow this pattern.

1) We report to multi-hunters, all our findings. If this doesn't help, then
2) We speak with the HC of the person's alliance, to seek a satisfactory result for all parties. If nothing then
3) We act. Retribution will be swift, brutal and honest. We leave no ships living, and we will send everything we can to take down a cheaters planet. The message will be known, WE DONT WANT CHEATERS HERE. WE dont need the same level of proof as Multi-Hunters do, and we will pay back in the best way we know how.

Everything that happens will be made public. A website will soon be put up, to coincide with the start of ticks, and the launch of ships at the first caught cheaters of the round.

If you wish to make any report, please feel free to contact me in #PACA or at [email protected] Please leave all your details, so we can get back to you, and you will see the end results of our actions. Please note anyone making a delieberetly false accusation will be assumed a cheater and dealt with in the same way. Anounomous accusations will not be followed up. If you request however, we will keep u anonomous, but WE must know who we are dealing with at all times.

Vigilante Times Ahoy.
Forest

[The_Fish]

heh... makes me think of a crusade by a bunch of mates back in R4 to seek out and destroy donation whores

[Mendosa]

Forest Forest He's our king with him by our sides i know we'll win

sounds gr8 m8, vigilantism at it's most finely honed

[BoredOfThis]

[17:20:57] <Dreadnought> Forest
[17:21:03] <Dreadnought> dont start a crusade
[17:21:06] <Dreadnought> ur a cheater

[Heartless]

Well as much as I like the idea: who does decide whether a planet is cheating and by which factors? Personally I prefer sticking with the PA Team since they do have far better tools for this task. (Oh and sometimes people simply might have to accept that their assumptions were wrong, as strange as it sometimes may be.)

[Tis]

I send vile threats

ie.

RECALL OR I SIC TEH BUNNY ON YOU!!!111 --->



dont hurt me forest

[AzureWrath]

Revolt

[Forest]

Originally Posted by Heartless

Well as much as I like the idea: who does decide whether a planet is cheating and by which factors? Personally I prefer sticking with the PA Team since they do have far better tools for this task. (Oh and sometimes people simply might have to accept that their assumptions were wrong, as strange as it sometimes may be.)

Who decides, thats easy.

WE decide.

WE follow our rules, if u dont like, u will have to defend

We arent pa team

we have no links to pa officially.

This is just war

[§pa¢e¢ook¦e]

DIEEEEEEEE cheat0rs DIEEEEEEEEE

[yupster]

Originally Posted by Forest

Who decides, thats easy.

WE decide.

WE follow our rules, if u dont like, u will have to defend

We arent pa team

we have no links to pa officially.

This is just war

Its not gonna be pretty when you use this against someone not cheating though, and it ends up looking like you used this channel to help yourself/your friends/your ally..

[AzureWrath]

MY Colors r nicer then 1up

copycat :P

1up > your colors :P

[barris]

im starting a similar campaign. join #facistlinchmob and give us the name of anyone you dont like very much, and we will use our considerable resources to take them down for you. ofc if enough of his mates give us your name we will take you down as well. since we have no real way of varifying any claims, and answer to no body, we do not forsee any problems ensuing from this policy
cheers

[Heartless]

Originally Posted by barris

im starting a similar campaign. join #facistlinchmob and give us the name of anyone you dont like very much, and we will use our considerable resources to take them down for you. ofc if enough of his mates give us your name we will take you down as well. since we have no real way of varifying any claims, and answer to no body, we do not forsee any problems ensuing from this policy
cheers

Are you Forest's 2nd forum nick and just posting his agenda in a far less beautified but more honest way?

[Forest]

Cool innit

[Hicks]

To be honest Forest with your cheating record your hardly someone who should be leading a crusade against it. Also if a member of your alliance is suspected of cheating are you gonig to start running raids on them ? Or will you just be doing it to people who aren't your friends ?

Frankly things like this always suck and go a long way to ruining people's reputations, even though they may have done nothing wrong, much as I dislike Heartless he asks a good question, who does decide whether a planet is cheating and by which factors ? In my opinion the only people who can decide this are the impartial PA Team.

[Phil^]

Us multihunters do. if there isnt enough evidence to close them,we dont. simple

[barris]

yah just trying to provide a similarly abusable service without all the self righteous hypocritical bullshit. seems forest approves, although it might mean he has to do a bit less terrorising himself (sorry to take away your fun)

[Forest]

Originally Posted by Phil^

Us multihunters do. if there isnt enough evidence to close them,we dont. simple

IDD

and if we feel there is enough evidence we kill em. Simple


And Hicks, yes i would have my own alliance twatted, and i would (often do) have my own galaxy twatted also.

[Forest]

Originally Posted by barris

yah just trying to provide a similarly abusable service without all the self righteous hypocritical bullshit. seems forest approves, although it might mean he has to do a bit less terrorising himself (sorry to take away your fun)

No problem, we can always find enough ppl to keep us busy.

[Phil^]

ofc when they're closed you cant attack them, and if they dont appeal successfully they are deleted , so i wonder what the threshold of evidence for you is

[Tis]

Originally Posted by Phil^

ofc when they're closed you cant attack them, and if they dont appeal successfully they are deleted , so i wonder what the threshold of evidence for you is

i have many doubts about forests 'project'.

that you reopen loads of people who dont deserve it isnt one of them tho.

[xtothez]

I see a flaw.

When I was HC I didn't kick suspected cheaters on the grounds that since we didn't have enough evidence to close them, they would just continue their cheating in another alliance hostile to us (although I hate to name and shame, many of these people did end up in a certain alliance beginning with 'F'...). I suspect any competant HC would require enough proof to close a member before risking them defecting and becoming a hostile cheater they no longer have control over, nor easy ways to collect further evidence on. It would just be suicide, and doesn't benefit anyone.

[Forest]

Originally Posted by xtothez

I see a flaw.

When I was HC I didn't kick suspected cheaters on the grounds that since we didn't have enough evidence to close them, they would just continue their cheating in another alliance hostile to us (although I hate to name and shame, many of these people did end up in a certain alliance beginning with 'F'...). I suspect any competant HC would require enough proof to close a member before risking them defecting and becoming a hostile cheater they no longer have control over, nor easy ways to collect further evidence on. It would just be suicide, and doesn't benefit anyone.

Lets assume u are ely hc and have found a cheater.

Wouldnt it be better if u roided the guy, killed his fleet, kept roids in yuor alliance, and watch him go inactive, followed up with a VERY public campaign aimed at letting everyone know they cheated, designed to stop him getting an alliance, knowing if he found an alliance they would 1) be taking in dead planets who are cheats, and 2) they will get all def fleets twatted for it

[xtothez]

Originally Posted by Forest

Lets assume ...

Not really. It's incredibly easy to keep your fleet alive for 72 ticks if you know what you're doing, and the most experienced cheaters do. Last round we had the problem of private gals. If someone forms a galaxy with a cheating friend, then not only are they likely to be cheating, but they will defend each other to the end. This issue is reduced but not removed by this rounds private packs.
You're really talking about getting a successful fleetcatch on the individual. It requires alot of time and resources to guaruntee this, and you only get the element of surprise once. The players that are worth dedicating this effort on (the ones big enough to be a threat if they go elsewhere) are the ones capable of surviving it. Very few alliances would be capable of directing such a raid alone, and even then it would be more beneficial for them to do their regular attacks.

You're asking people with a responsibility to their members to risk their alliance security and stability for a one-shot attempt at doing the job the multihunters should be doing. They have no real motivation to do so, beyond "its for the good of the game!". I'm not saying it's a bad thing to ask, just a bit naive and unreasonable to base a whole plan around. Not everyone thinks like you.

[Forest]

I think u underestimate the power the players themselves hold.

And I think u underestimate the power politics stand in all this.

I am pretty sure that if I can hand over undisputable proof to the top alliances, and the public in a big way, that that person wont get themsleves a good alliance.

And I think that fleetcatches and co will be HARDER this round, than in private rounds, due to the traveltime.

I have enough faith in my ability that I can out-think (with help from other paca's), any player.
Underestimation is a powerful thing, and many ppl still see me as that poor little noob. Im fine with that, it aids me.

I guess the time for talking is over, and the time for action is just beginning,

PA will no longer hide, and support cheats. Its time we brought out the big guns, and twatted the ppl whom spoil this game for the rest of us.

[Spaced]

Originally Posted by AzureWrath

copycat :P

1up > your colors :P

Agree, purely because ur ex-Virus

[jerome]

Vigilance has been a success, only rarely. Personally, I think this is a not-too-great idea, as well, if it was such a good one, why hasn't it been a] used b] a success over the years of PA? :/

Anyway, I seriously doubt, anyone other than MH have enough resources to catch cheaters who are capable of "ruining the game for the us". That shortens it down, to the high-level players of PA. I doubt, you'd see the more obvious cheaters at the top level who are capable to "ruining the game for the rest of us". I;m sure, multis remain, but the inactive ones who don't klnow what to do, I am also sure, farmers remain, but the obvious ones who can be picked out with a simple newsie (first def a planet, who has inc, then attack it a tick or so later etc). But the higher quality of cheaters can't be picked otu easily, I fear that some of PACA's punishments will be more due to personal smarting and a jump to conclusion (mr,x of paca is attacked mr.y who he believes, isnt online, but mr.z his gal-mate is, suddenly, mr.y spends res and mr.x is twatted, and mr.z+y counter mr.x and roid him silly, thus leaving mr.x in a slight fury, who takes it out by maybe suggesting account-sharing etc etc)

Are you sure, your people are capable of being precisely accurate in catching the real cheaters? furthermore, what happens if your wrong? and you destroy an innocents planet who he may have worked hard for, etc?

Basically, unless the PA team/MH endorse this, I'd rather this not to go through. :/

[Forest]

It wont be endorsed by pateam. It will go through.

If we hit 100 cheaters, and one turns out to be honest, tats a shame yes, but lets remeber this is a war game.

We hit cheats and kill em, whereas u will be killing players who play fair (possibly).

So who is worst

[Spaced]

Originally Posted by Forest

It wont be endorsed by pateam. It will go through.

If we hit 100 cheaters, and one turns out to be honest, tats a shame yes, but lets remeber this is a war game.

We hit cheats and kill em, whereas u will be killing players who play fair (possibly).

So who is worst

hate to say it but there is a logic in there.

[alch]

(mr,x of paca is attacked mr.y who he believes, isnt online, but mr.z his gal-mate is, suddenly, mr.y spends res and mr.x is twatted, and mr.z+y counter mr.x and roid him silly, thus leaving mr.x in a slight fury, who takes it out by maybe suggesting account-sharing etc etc)

man, i done my math A-level long time ago.
so you said Mr.(z-y+x)-(x-y) = account sharing ?

[Forest]

Originally Posted by alch

man, i done my math A-level long time ago.
so you said Mr.(z-y+x)-(x-y) = account sharing ?

I ignored that bit cause it confused the hell outta me

[Precursors]

You talk about hitting 100-200 cheaters? I am not paying to hit idling planets used by cheaters for scanning. You can do all you want hitting so-called-cheaters entire game, or trying to organize it, and I will be enjoying my game hitting other players or maybe even you, playing a normal game

happy witch hunting to you

I trust devs as they have the tools, they have the database

[alch]

well, i think the guy just proved the account sharing relation, from now on, if people ask you how you know if someone cheat, just show them this relation

Mr.(z-y+x)-(x-y) = account sharing

[alch]

ofc .
x - y - z - being the trio buddy pack

[Forest]

Originally Posted by Precursors

You talk about hitting 100-200 cheaters? I am not paying to hit idling planets used by cheaters for scanning. You can do all you want hitting so-called-cheaters entire game, or trying to organize it, and I will be enjoying my game hitting other players or maybe even you, playing a normal game

happy witch hunting to you

I trust devs as they have the tools, they have the database

Im not saying we will hit any amount of cheaters, it was simply an example.

and yes, i will enjoy what i do as much as u enjoy what u do

[alch]

hmmm, OMG precursor want to hit Forest.
hmmm
forest, i think prec is cheating aswell, go hit him now!

[jerome]

Originally Posted by Forest

It wont be endorsed by pateam. It will go through.

If we hit 100 cheaters, and one turns out to be honest, tats a shame yes, but lets remeber this is a war game.

We hit cheats and kill em, whereas u will be killing players who play fair (possibly).

So who is worst

yes., but i do it as part of the game, for personal gain. You will do it, for self-righteous unleashment of wrath.

ps.

better explanation of the thing:

Jimmy attacks Brian
Brian is offline as Jimmy doesnt see him on irc
Brians gal mate Timmy is online
Jimmy scans Brian and sees Brian spent his res
then a tick later, Timmy and Brian counter Jimmy
Jimmy, jumps to the conclusion, Timmy logged into Brians account to spend res, as he obviously isnt online to do it.

Jimmy then goes off to claim all this, and exaggerates certain facts, and in the end, Brian and Timmy, get destroyed. Even though, they were playing honestly.

Why was Brian not on irc? he cba.

k?

[Dark-Strider]

yep i think _ryzekiel_ sums it up pretty well.

you'll be hitting to many innocent planets. therefore if the person being hit by ure anti cheating fleets is new to the game then he is likely to be put off the game. thus making us lose more players than the odd cheater would anyway.
i'm all for catching cheaters, but lets just leave it to the MH and rest of PA Team, as they have much better tools than us..

Also it does sound a bit self righteous.

[Tactitus]

Q: What's the difference between an attack group and a vigilante group?
A: An attack group doesn't need a cover.

Mods, please move this thread to AD.

[xtothez]

Originally Posted by Dark-Strider

.

You stole my sig. Bitch.

[Psi_K]

Another crusade by Forest, I'm up for watching the entertainment.

[Helix]

To put this whole cheating thing in context...and why forest is doing this.

For those of you that played beta you probably know about the farming roids back and forth from each other in order to get roids. When I confronted Karmulian about this to ask what would happen to them in a real round his response was stunning. He said that one of the two would "likely" be closed and that the other could probably talk his way out of it....I mean, come on, they had each attacked each other back and forth for 100 ticks...and yet that wasn't proof enough of cheating.

PATeam really does have their hands tied, and a person needs to basically jump out into the middle of the field waving a huge 12' x 12' sign saying HERE I AM PATEAM DELETE ME. Look at the enormous amounts of evidence that were needed to delete TehPropheT.

The fact of the matter is that cheating goes relatively unpunished in planetarion now, as the multihunters really do have quite a short leash (through no fault of their own mind you). Now someone who has been known to cheat in the past, or been in league with cheating running an operation like this is debateable, but the fact of the matter is that cheaters do not get punished. And I for one, would send my ships to kill someone, under the condition that I get to see all the evidence against said person and decide for myself whether I believe he is a cheater. I think that should be a rule of something like this, allow all attackers to see the evidence and decide for themselves if they believe the person cheated. If 10 people think they did (and they really didn't) then the attack was just because they didn't like the person

If people see anything more in this than Forest in another vain attempt to get back a bit of power and to control a few peons, could they please let me know,

because i'm sure missing it

[Auro]

Originally Posted by Forest

Who decides, thats easy.

WE decide.

WE follow our rules, if u dont like, u will have to defend

We arent pa team

we have no links to pa officially.

This is just war

I don't get it. What's the difference between this and an alliance/BG? You're attacking people who aren't proven to be cheating, you know. For all intents and purposes everyone is potentially a cheater. Do you then attack everybody?

Again, I want to echo the personal vendetta thing. Some people are just sore losers. People call me cheater all the time since I actually call my galmates when they're under attack (yay for cheap international phone cards), and people have messaged me accusing me of account sharing. So then, I'd be a cheater in you guys' eyes? Certainly there's little proof on the defendant and plaintiff side, seeing how the defendant can easily make up fake info and the plantiff is basing it on circumstantial evidence at best.

[Forest]

You would be surprised how mnay ppl during a round will pm me from inside my gal (even though I repeatedly tell them cheating wont be tolerated), saying something like 'I am holiday for a week but xxx has my login and will check my planet.

And elviz. Regain power? Ive alwys had a close group of friends who trust and follow me and would do what I ask without question. So I dont NEED to regain power. If u think that, u really know very little about me.

Helix, u are pretty much correct on why im doing it, with pateam having their hands tied, though this isnt something based on 1 incident (I didnt play beta), but something we have planned since at least 200 ticks from end of last round, and something that all good alliances (and some rubbish ones too) have been consulted on and there opinions noted.

[Appocomaster]

Originally Posted by Forest

It wont be endorsed by pateam. It will go through.

If we hit 100 cheaters, and one turns out to be honest, tats a shame yes, but lets remeber this is a war game.

We hit cheats and kill em, whereas u will be killing players who play fair (possibly).

So who is worst

I'm far more happy to trust this round's new multi tools than I am a couple of people yelling that they got hit by "obvious multis" who both hit them at once or something, so they get bashed into oblivion.
If you start killing innocent players and making them leave the game, you're going to make the PA Team look far better than you. When they close people, they're not 100% sure.. when they delete people they're certain.
You have no way of knowing for sure.
It's sort of a nice idea, but as Phil said, the reason the people don't get closed is because there isn't conclusive evidence. If they, with all their tools and DB logs, cannot find conclusive evidence, how can you ever expect to have a tenth of their knowledge and decide for yourself?

[Appocomaster]

Originally Posted by Forest

You would be surprised how mnay ppl during a round will pm me from inside my gal (even though I repeatedly tell them cheating wont be tolerated), saying something like 'I am holiday for a week but xxx has my login and will check my planet.

then tell the PA Team, and they'll check it and close them . If you bitch and you're not telling them things like this, I don't see that you have a leg to stand on.

Originally Posted by Forest

And elviz. Regain power? Ive alwys had a close group of friends who trust and follow me and would do what I ask without question. So I dont NEED to regain power. If u think that, u really know very little about me.

Ha. Anyone's stupid if they follow anyone else no matter what they do. I don't always follow any of my trusted friends' leads. Then I wouldn't be me, I'd be a mini them, doing what they say like a little robot.

Helix, u are pretty much correct on why im doing it, with pateam having their hands tied, though this isnt something based on 1 incident (I didnt play beta), but something we have planned since at least 200 ticks from end of last round, and something that all good alliances (and some rubbish ones too) have been consulted on and there opinions noted.

In beta quite a few accounts (forget the exact number, but I'm pretty sure it was in the 100's) for people signing up more than one account - the accounts all just got deleted. I'm sure someone like Phil would be better placed to talk about this, as he did the deleting
Which alliances and what comments exactly? Did they all give you their full support, as a body answerable to no one attacking accused multis?

[Forest]

Originally Posted by Appocomaster

then tell the PA Team, and they'll check it and close them . If you bitch and you're not telling them things like this, I don't see that you have a leg to stand on.

I always do tell them, and most of the time they say there isnt conclusive proof as the logs may be faked. If i KNOW the log is real, I WILL act on it

Originally Posted by Appocomaster

Ha. Anyone's stupid if they follow anyone else no matter what they do. I don't always follow any of my trusted friends' leads. Then I wouldn't be me, I'd be a mini them, doing what they say like a little robot.

Different ppl play different ways. Your choice.

Originally Posted by Appocomaster

In beta quite a few accounts (forget the exact number, but I'm pretty sure it was in the 100's) for people signing up more than one account - the accounts all just got deleted. I'm sure someone like Phil would be better placed to talk about this, as he did the deleting
Which alliances and what comments exactly? Did they all give you their full support, as a body answerable to no one attacking accused multis?

Beta im not intersted in, i didnt play.

Any alliance wishing to support or distance themselves from this are free to do so. I know which are supportive, which arent, and which are sitting on the fence until they see how things are gonna work, and unless they come forward, u wont be told by us.


And u still miss the point, in that WE would rather twat someone for being a cheat, than a random person for fun.

[Dark-Strider]

Originally Posted by xtothez

You stole my sig. Bitch.

copycatting is the highest form of flattery

but if u want me to change it I will.

[jerome]

And u still miss the point, in that WE would rather twat someone for being a cheat, than a random person for fun.

and all of these players will attack top cheating planets, and possibly risk a lot of their score for some roids, which they'll have to share anyway, as they'll undoubtedly not be the only on on the attack. Especially, when there are simpler roids available, for sure?

So your team is basically looking to make the game better for the rest of us, and not trying to win in the simplest way posible, yourself?

if so, why thank you.. you lot go and get rid of the big bad cheaaters, me and the rest of us, not exactly convined by this, will go pet our easily gained roids.