FAnG/Dragon cheaters

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by SystemShock

Please stop trying to make this a Eclipse vs. FAnG thing. I'm not pissed at the whole affair because the re-opened planets are FAnG, I'm pissed because some of the re-opened planets are cheaters, proven cheaters.

WHAT proven cheaters? Tell me what you "think" should have been the proof? I mean it'd be silly making up your mind based on assumptions and wild guesses ...

rgds Kj

[Wakko]

Originally Posted by LEFF|pm

Its kinda funny to see how much effort eclipse puts into attemps to close our planets , and how many details ToT seems to know about the "proofs" the PA team had. If you guys would have used your time to organize attacks, defend your planets and launch fleets instead of wasting it by constructing absurd accusations, you presumably would be less frustrated now

Dear Fury: Maybe its time to finally focus on playing this game... and if you are not good enough to win fairly, try to accept, that not every round can be won by backstabbing and propaganda.

1st i didnt waste my times to proof they r cheating, it only takes a few minutes to look after all stuff
2nd i give a shit on this round, it simply sucks, theres no honour and fun to win such a crappy round, so i wont waste time in this game anymore. i only do when im bored and i got nothing else to do.
3rd fang made at least equal propaganda as eclipse(i think u were talking about them when u mentioned fury, fury doesnt exist anymore) this round (just scroll back to the beginning of the round and read those bullshit threads)

off to work

[I am Idler]

I was going to make a kinda lengthy and informative reply here.. but I'm not sure I'll bother as the discussion is down to a shit throwing contest

[Seed of Chaos]

lol . Indeed it has

[Jackal2112]

Yes, that biased post made a lot of sense SPQR, and it is funny that the next post under yours is another biased post. Now, I am a alliance mate of the planets that were re-opened, so I am probably biased myself, but I am happy that when someone is not 'proven guilty', his planet is reopened.

It would be wrong to have a PA team closing people based on rumours, made up logs, speculations, HC's of certain alliances pushing them around, or different IP address logins from multiple countries.. all invalid reasons to close people imo.

But hey.. you gotta flame someone if you are frustrated and outblocked

[I am Idler]

listing all those reasons not to close planets, what might your suggestions for valid reasons be ?

signed confession with blood from the sphinxter?

[Jackal2112]

actually, it comes close to that.

but a confession by email or irc by the player would do.

it's kinda hard to have 100% convincing evidence, since we are talking about the Internet here, and everything that is data can be faked and manipulated..

obvious and cases with proof;

- people who had logins on a website
- people who post on gal forums logins
- people who sent their logins using pa messages
- people who confess about what they did

Even with clear proof, its still possible someones pc was trojaned ofc..

Which makes it even harder for the judge and jury!

[I am Idler]

every case that is not plain obvious. (example of obvious: multiple planets logging in with the same ip, sending ships at the same coords, farming of eachother, etc.) should be discussed with other members of the multihunter crew to conclude with the best solution possible..

you can never know 100% but you can come pretty close if you 'investigate' properly.. ofcourse some cases will be a bit dodgy, but no one is unfortunately perfect and errors will occure no mather how you go about it.

[JC]

Originally Posted by Jackal2112

It would be wrong to have a PA team closing people based different IP address logins from multiple countries..

Now i know there is the odd ocassion where people go on holiday, but surely you arent trying to say that if PAteam notice someone logging into a planet with IPs from the UK, Holland and Australia in the same day that this isnt very strong evidence something dodgy is going on?

but a confession by email or irc by the player would do.

Be realistic. You want PAteam to only close planets that confess to cheating? They might as well just sack all the multi hunters if that was the case.

[JC]

Originally Posted by Rumad

werent you sayng a few days ago they had to be guilty and informed and now they have been reopened?

I said that when planets are closed there is a hell of a lot of evidence to prove they have cheated. However they are closed rather than deleted so that they can claim their innocence and try to get reopened, which in some cases happens. More often than not because they come up with a great lie.

All planets are informed when they are closed and why they have been closed.

In this thread i was trying talking about the reasons planets are closed in the first place. Jackal pretty much wanted a signed slip by the owner of the planet saying that they cheated and so should be closed. I dont know about you, but i dont know (m)any people that would admit to cheating off their own bat.

He also said multiple IPs from different countries signing into the same planet shouldnt be a reason to close a planet. Maybe i'm just getting cynical in my old age, but if i saw a planet logging in from England, then Holland a few hours later, then Australia in the middle of the night, i would be slightly* suspicious.

My 2 separate comments in different threads havent contradicted each other.

*understatement of the year

[I am Idler]

I think I closed about 2000 planets with the ip/location/time evidence alone.. you dont need much more than that really..

oh, and a sense of logic

[Yama]

BLAH BLAH BLAH.. what a load of bllx...

Cheaters should be shot and hung from the highest tree for all to see.

And oh yeah.. CLOSE THEIR PLANETS FFS!

Haven't cheaters not fked up this game enough already? I'm sick of the "yeh I'm sorry, my mom logged in by accident when she was cleaning my keyboard while I was really logged in at a m8's house, honest" dumbass excuses that get ppl reopened again.

[mikay]

Originally Posted by SystemShock

Consider this :
A creator says he is pretty sure those planets cheated but doesn't have 'enough' proof to close them.
PA Team members themselves admit that there is good evidence to support the cheating accusations on some other planets.

Last weekend I saw a scan of some dude who was being coverted for 2 million resources a tick for quite some time. While this was happening he launched a fleet and recalled that fleet without spending up. My guess was that he was away and had someone launching his fleet but no proof.

Now as this dude was you and you think cheating is very bad I'm sure you'll want to explain why you weren't fussed at all these resource losses just so that there's no question mark over you.

[I am Idler]

Originally Posted by YaZZam

BLAH BLAH BLAH.. what a load of bllx...

Cheaters should be shot and hung from the highest tree for all to see.

And oh yeah.. CLOSE THEIR PLANETS FFS!

Haven't cheaters not fked up this game enough already? I'm sick of the "yeh I'm sorry, my mom logged in by accident when she was cleaning my keyboard while I was really logged in at a m8's house, honest" dumbass excuses that get ppl reopened again.

I do appreciate you stating your point of view.. it would be nice if you could conduct some civil behaviour on the mather tho.

[LEFF|pm]

Originally Posted by Wakko

1st i didnt waste my times to proof they r cheating, it only takes a few minutes to look after all stuff
2nd i give a shit on this round, it simply sucks, theres no honour and fun to win such a crappy round, so i wont waste time in this game anymore. i only do when im bored and i got nothing else to do.
3rd fang made at least equal propaganda as eclipse(i think u were talking about them when u mentioned fury, fury doesnt exist anymore) this round (just scroll back to the beginning of the round and read those bullshit threads)

off to work

1) It took you a few minutes to pass a hasty sentence maybe. Do not mix it with finding an evidence...

2) In case you give a shit I´d strongly recommend to not judge me or any other players who still care. If you dont attach importance to this matter, I seriously doubt you will have spent any time to go into it and actually find out what it is all about. Like outcast you just overflew the entire story, enclosed yourself in a wall of prejustice, cause your sympathies were already settled before you actually knew what happend and started to flame...
By the way: "there is no honor" in sharing accounts as well, just in case you forgot that...

3) FAnG was allied to Fury in former rounds and we learned to know their character the hard way. Eclipse is Fury ; just using another name, after Fury collapsed.
I think you still dont realize that ToT or Ely would have been Fury`s next target if FAnG wasnt alive still. As soon they dont need you any longer, you turn into a naive and roidfat target...
Syn Sid would have known the meaning of loyalty or maybe Germania.... Whats left of the great Fury is just a scrupeless roiding machine, and as you presumably know, loyalty, integrety or honesty are just prejudical to winning another round....

[Jackal2112]

Originally Posted by JC

Now i know there is the odd ocassion where people go on holiday, but surely you arent trying to say that if PAteam notice someone logging into a planet with IPs from the UK, Holland and Australia in the same day that this isnt very strong evidence something dodgy is going on?

Read up a bit. I explained it's quite normal for people to be using diff IP's during a normal day which involved being at school, work, at home, or anyplace else, where the ISP is not from their own country. And again, what would stop me from using a proxy based in Taiwan for gods sake? I have liberty to connect to PA in any way and using any kind of Inet access I chose don't I?

[Jackal2112]

Originally Posted by I am Idler

I think I closed about 2000 planets with the ip/location/time evidence alone.. you dont need much more than that really..

oh, and a sense of logic

Your logic is yours, and yours only... That is if your logic applies to single planets being accessed from lets say 2-3 different IP addresses during the day. However, I agree that if you turn this around; ie: if several different accounts logon from the same IP, within a small time frame, all launching defense/attacks on the same target, looks suspicious at least, and might be reason for closure and further investigation/question of the player(s) involved.

However to close a planet just because he used 2 different ISP's.. means I would have been closed every single round, and lots of other PA players as well hehe.

[Jackal2112]

Originally Posted by mikay

Last weekend I saw a scan of some dude who was being coverted for 2 million resources a tick for quite some time. While this was happening he launched a fleet and recalled that fleet without spending up. My guess was that he was away and had someone launching his fleet but no proof.

Now as this dude was you and you think cheating is very bad I'm sure you'll want to explain why you weren't fussed at all these resource losses just so that there's no question mark over you.

Very easy Mikay, you don't have conclusive proof over Systemshock so he can get away with it

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Jackal2112

Read up a bit. I explained it's quite normal for people to be using diff IP's during a normal day which involved being at school, work, at home, or anyplace else, where the ISP is not from their own country. And again, what would stop me from using a proxy based in Taiwan for gods sake? I have liberty to connect to PA in any way and using any kind of Inet access I chose don't I?

Well there are certain problems with this. For example if one day he's logged in from china, korea and the UK and then the next USA, canada and brazil and the next france, ireland and holland it's unlikely that this is merely due to different IPs from work, home etc. Equally if the time gap between two of them being logged in from is very low, eg 40 minutes, it's unlikely that someone just logged off their work computer, sprinted to their girlfriend's and then the first thing they did was login. Or if two different IPs are logged in from during the local night-time on an irregular basis, or if the supposed work IP is logged in from during the local night-time the likelihood of cheating is higher than if you use the same IP all the time.



PS I wouldn't be too sure about bringing back the old multi-hunters. I used to get away with quite a lot back then :(

[Stress]

my 2 cents :

using 10 days, before anny conclusive action is taken. is probably the worst managing this game has seen in a long time. Why do PA-team keep asking uss to have faith with them. When they time after time, proove with actions that they arent capable.....

secondly and sure fang u can flame me for this
out of 10? possible cheaters, NONE are closed. now I might be naive. But if u suspect 10 ppl, and have indications and or unconclusive proof. I'm pretty certain that atleast some of these where cheating.

I'm sorry if u feel that I am judgemental by saying that. Nut please, do u really believe that all of the 'highly suspected' where innocent ? I for one cannot.

and yes, I'n my eyes they will remain cheaters. Not being capable to make the right desishion, does not proove somone innocent. Hell, I reported one of them. And the innformation I sent alone. Should have ben enough to delete teh planet.

U might say that I am the evil man whom reports players. Naturally it is easier for me to se what the opposition is doing, as i monitor them Closely.

to think all of the ones closed, had nothing to hide, is hillarious. Common, on the other hand. Pa-team hung themselves in my eyes, I will waste no more on a game, where the 'watchers' cannot even see the sand for what it is...

This tho. Is not intended as a flame, not a shot at FanG. ITs just dead SAD how this has ben handeled.

U closed 10 ? planets. and now u tell uss ALL of them where legit....

If this be the case. Please contact me. I have some bridges I would like to sell u,.


Stress

[Nadar]

Originally Posted by Stress

U closed 10 ? planets. and now u tell uss ALL of them where legit....
Stress

Our mouths hurts from all the blowjobbs

[Razorback]

Originally Posted by LEFF|pm

If a planet cheated, he gets closed. If there is no evidence, he stays open.

Its kinda funny to see how much effort eclipse puts into attemps to close our planets , and how many details ToT seems to know about the "proofs" the PA team had. If you guys would have used your time to organize attacks, defend your planets and launch fleets instead of wasting it by constructing absurd accusations, you presumably would be less frustrated now

Dear Fury: Maybe its time to finally focus on playing this game... and if you are not good enough to win fairly, try to accept, that not every round can be won by backstabbing and propaganda.

Stop smoking pot leff might help to get your views clear once in a while.

Eclipse did not talk to any pa crew members about Fang-cheaters nor did eclipse make a public stand in this thread for or against the fang-cheating accusations. Outcast and Tomkat display only their own opinions and views on this topic like stated above by me and even by themself. (reading before replying would help you before you start your pathetic generalisations)

Infact i supported a few posts above your/Kj's view on those things and criticized the poor performance of pacrew.

Your fury remark i can only note down to smokeing pot again, otherwise you would know fury disbanded a few rounds ago. As a result the alliance cant play and win a round anymore.
Or are you starting one of those rather old and boring Eclipse is fury crap again ? Seems when you are high you have either a bad memory or a lost sense of humor.
Especially as you babbled about Eclipse and Fury politics which you seem to know nothing about.
REgarding ToT: They had good terms with Fury/Eclipse for the last 6 rounds so your fear for backstabbing and a rise of bad feelings seems illogical (especially after your own hc tried to persuade Eclipse and ToT to take on Elysium and we both declined earlier this round).
Seeing you didnt play r9 i wont hold it against you that you dont know much about our dealings with Elysium unless its your usual 2nd hand information and/or wild-dope clouded-guessing. Seems thats your style

Back to the weekend. (leave the bad stuff leff maybe just drinks next time)

[Razorback]

Originally Posted by mikay

Last weekend I saw a scan of some dude who was being coverted for 2 million resources a tick for quite some time. While this was happening he launched a fleet and recalled that fleet without spending up. My guess was that he was away and had someone launching his fleet but no proof.

Now as this dude was you and you think cheating is very bad I'm sure you'll want to explain why you weren't fussed at all these resource losses just so that there's no question mark over you.

2 possible answers:

"doesnt care anymore"
"went back to bed after launching"

comedy option 3
"saving up for 1k battleships"

[Wakko]

Originally Posted by LEFF|pm

1) It took you a few minutes to pass a hasty sentence maybe. Do not mix it with finding an evidence...

2) In case you give a shit I´d strongly recommend to not judge me or any other players who still care. If you dont attach importance to this matter, I seriously doubt you will have spent any time to go into it and actually find out what it is all about. Like outcast you just overflew the entire story, enclosed yourself in a wall of prejustice, cause your sympathies were already settled before you actually knew what happend and started to flame...
By the way: "there is no honor" in sharing accounts as well, just in case you forgot that...

3) FAnG was allied to Fury in former rounds and we learned to know their character the hard way. Eclipse is Fury ; just using another name, after Fury collapsed.
I think you still dont realize that ToT or Ely would have been Fury`s next target if FAnG wasnt alive still. As soon they dont need you any longer, you turn into a naive and roidfat target...
Syn Sid would have known the meaning of loyalty or maybe Germania.... Whats left of the great Fury is just a scrupeless roiding machine, and as you presumably know, loyalty, integrety or honesty are just prejudical to winning another round....

i simply replied, cos KJ affirmed that all didnt cheat. in those 10 days they were closed, there was enough time of boredom to have some minutes to look on the facts, why they were closed. and its hard to believe that they didnt cheat. but after all there was no "hard proof" like same ips or logging into one account in short times from several places in the world. and yes, as some1 posted b4, u cant proof they didnt cheat as u cant proof they cheated

so i just posted my 2 cents about what happened, cos in my opinion it is a joke to reopen those planets, and keep a planet closed for an invalid email adress. its out of all propotions, doesnt matter which alliance those planets r.
and then KJ posts they didnt cheat...u see my point

the difference between FAnG' and ToT's relation to fury/eclipse is that we r allied to them since Round 4. We have a very good relationship, and it has to happen very much that we will fight against each other. Also in R9 our relation to ely or WP didnt went so bad as many expected or thought. after our split up from WEET, we were staying in the shared HC chans and talked to each other; quite a strange situation
and ofc after the fall of FAnG (and then after the killing of dragons/wolfpack/newdawn/visions/seraphim, which fight against us) eclipse would need new targets, but as u saw in R9 after roiding wp and ely we had a stagnation in the game again, eclipse and ToT didnt attack each other (when we did we tried to recall the fleets)
so after all i didnt expect in the beginning of the round that ely/eclipse/ToT would split up as we saw it in previous rounds in other allyed alliances. PA crew managed that it is very hard to take an alliance down.

and yes i also know whats happens behind the scences. dunno why u wanna tell me how eclipse or other alliance make politics

PS ur post is again propaganda against eclipse, some1 should stop that shit, perhaps the other side stops also

[LEFF|pm]

Originally Posted by Wakko

i simply replied, cos KJ affirmed that all didnt cheat. in those 10 days they were closed, there was enough time of boredom to have some minutes to look on the facts, why they were closed. and its hard to believe that they didnt cheat. but after all there was no "hard proof" like same ips or logging into one account in short times from several places in the world. and yes, as some1 posted b4, u cant proof they didnt cheat as u cant proof they cheated

..."facts", too secret to even tell the closed planet`s owners about, but of course ToT knows every detail...
Just btw: how many ToT planets got closed due to account sharing this round? ... Stop this canting lamentation about honor and fairplay, you dont even know how H-O-N-O-R spelled, Mr "We at least admit, that we cheat"

Originally Posted by Wakko

so i just posted my 2 cents about what happened, cos in my opinion it is a joke to reopen those planets, and keep a planet closed for an invalid email adress. its out of all propotions, doesnt matter which alliance those planets r.
and then KJ posts they didnt cheat...u see my point

[02:55] Session Ident: Wakko ([email protected])
[02:55] <Wakko> moin
[02:55] <[ToT]Heartless> moin
[02:56] <[ToT]Heartless> watt gibts? (:
[02:56] <Wakko> hast du lust meinen terraner plani zu spielen
[02:56] <Wakko> ich bin bis voraussichtlich sonntach weg
[02:57] <[ToT]Heartless> hehe
[02:57] <[ToT]Heartless> könnt ihn mitnehmen jedesmal, jo
[02:57] <Wakko> ok
[02:57] <Wakko> wieviele browser hast du?
[02:57] <[ToT]Heartless> 2
[02:57] <[ToT]Heartless> ie und opera
[02:57] <Wakko> kannst du noch netscape installen und den proxy immer nehmen?

...unfortunatly Heartless reported....
But how do you call this again? ... ah yeah... hypocrisy, isnt it ?

Originally Posted by Wakko

the difference between FAnG' and ToT's relation to fury/eclipse is that we r allied to them since Round 4. We have a very good relationship, and it has to happen very much that we will fight against each other. Also in R9 our relation to ely or WP didnt went so bad as many expected or thought. after our split up from WEET, we were staying in the shared HC chans and talked to each other; quite a strange situation
and ofc after the fall of FAnG (and then after the killing of dragons/wolfpack/newdawn/visions/seraphim, which fight against us) eclipse would need new targets, but as u saw in R9 after roiding wp and ely we had a stagnation in the game again, eclipse and ToT didnt attack each other (when we did we tried to recall the fleets)
so after all i didnt expect in the beginning of the round that ely/eclipse/ToT would split up as we saw it in previous rounds in other allyed alliances. PA crew managed that it is very hard to take an alliance down.

and yes i also know whats happens behind the scences. dunno why u wanna tell me how eclipse or other alliance make politics

PS ur post is again propaganda against eclipse, some1 should stop that shit, perhaps the other side stops also

I really hope our both alliances differ in more aspects then just this one. Still I respect your loyalty and attach much value to this attribute. Of course it is propaganda... the same type you or the eclipse command is posting here; but I´ll give my best to not lapse into flaming Fury again in spite of all our negative experiences...

Sorry for that

[Jackal2112]

sig material.. hehehe

[Wakko]

Originally Posted by LEFF|pm

..."facts", too secret to even tell the closed planet`s owners about, but of course ToT knows every detail...

i know what was reported to the multihunters, i dont know what those told the planet owners, thats not my job

Originally Posted by LEFF|pm

Just btw: how many ToT planets got closed due to account sharing this round?

not the topic of this thread, open another one with that topic and stop to detract from FAnG

Originally Posted by LEFF|pm

... Stop this canting lamentation about honor and fairplay, you dont even know how H-O-N-O-R spelled, Mr "We at least admit, that we cheat"

u wanna tell me sth about H-O-N-O-U-R?(i prefer BE) stop that lame provocation, i didnt mention that word in my post, did i?

Originally Posted by LEFF|pm

.
[02:55] Session Ident: Wakko ([email protected])
[02:55] <Wakko> moin
[02:55] <[ToT]Heartless> moin
[02:56] <[ToT]Heartless> watt gibts? (:
[02:56] <Wakko> hast du lust meinen terraner plani zu spielen
[02:56] <Wakko> ich bin bis voraussichtlich sonntach weg
[02:57] <[ToT]Heartless> hehe
[02:57] <[ToT]Heartless> könnt ihn mitnehmen jedesmal, jo
[02:57] <Wakko> ok
[02:57] <Wakko> wieviele browser hast du?
[02:57] <[ToT]Heartless> 2
[02:57] <[ToT]Heartless> ie und opera
[02:57] <Wakko> kannst du noch netscape installen und den proxy immer nehmen?

...unfortunatly Heartless reported....
But how do you call this again? ... ah yeah... hypocrisy, isnt it ?

dont have a problem with that.
1st irc logs doesnt proof anything.
2nd heartless can report who he wants im zik, funny isnt it? ^^
3rd *yawn* offtopic again
4th try to get my planet closed, no1 logged into my account, besides me

[Heartless]

Originally Posted by Wakko

i know what was reported to the multihunters, i dont know what those told the planet owners, thats not my job


not the topic of this thread, open another one with that topic and stop to detract from FAnG

u wanna tell me sth about H-O-N-O-U-R?(i prefer BE) stop that lame provocation, i didnt mention that word in my post, did i?


dont have a problem with that.
1st irc logs doesnt proof anything.
2nd heartless can report who he wants im zik, funny isnt it? ^^
3rd *yawn* offtopic again
4th try to get my planet closed, no1 logged into my account, besides me

Session Start: Tue Jun 10 14:55:11 2003

Round 9, but don't worry. I thought you keep record of your logs.
But however, I generally agree with you that IRC logs do not proof anything.
It was more intended as a hint that you should not accuse others of cheating when they have not cheated, nor should you go and cry like a little child IF others should be cheating (which PA Team decides) since you and quite some other ToT people are not even better.

[Wakko]

Originally Posted by Heartless

Session Start: Tue Jun 10 14:55:11 2003

Round 9, but don't worry. I thought you keep record of your logs.
But however, I generally agree with you that IRC logs do not proof anything.
It was more intended as a hint that you should not accuse others of cheating when they have not cheated, nor should you go and cry like a little child IF others should be cheating (which PA Team decides) since you and quite some other ToT people are not even better.

i didnt accuse them that they cheated, i said its hard to believe they didnt cheat. and when i was talking about it, i associated it with the closing for invalid email adress, which is in my eyes total bullshit, and on the other hand they reopened those planets.
i didnt cry like a little child, lame try

[virogenesis]

Outcast and Tomkat display only their own opinions and views on this topic like stated above by me and even by themself.
-------------------------------------------------------
ummm for a start Focht they are not views....they are propaganda for ecl....we both know that...don't even try to deny it because it is true.....ie: hcs control members while in public you have not told them to stop accusing the members involed. ( i got in trouble with fury cos i was annying the ops....& they contacted virii who gave me a warning..)
I used alot of proaganda during r9...against my allies...my gal mates...my enermies & everyone else.
So please don't lie about this not being a propaganda thread cos i know....& i think the rest of pa know when they read this thread...

[WebAngel]

Hi all,

I have not read anything of the previous posts, you guys have a lot of time to spend in posting about something you have no clue about.
Well to sum up, Some planets have been closed (note closed does not mean deleted).
One planet is closed when a multihunter suspects something 'unusual'. And it is not closed untill the owner has the opportunity to justify himself.
One planet is deleted when the owner fail to justify himself, it is unlocked otherwise.
Those planets have been unlocked, it has one only meaning, they have convinced the multihunters that nothing wrong has been done.
One can be happy or not about it. If you are not happy then I suggest you to apply for a multihunter job then you will be in position to take those decisions otherwise you have to respect the decisions of the only ones who know, I mean the multihunters.
This is their job to deal with it, not yours...
Of course I could ask for some apologies on behalf of all those whose honour has been damaged with all those false accusations. But I am sure that you will be big guys enough to do it by yourself at least if you have some honour.
For me this case is closed.

[Nadar]

Originally Posted by Heartless

Session Start: Tue Jun 10 14:55:11 2003

Round 9, but don't worry. I thought you keep record of your logs.

Round 9,5 even

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Razorback

Outcast and Tomkat display only their own opinions and views on this topic like stated above by me and even by themself. (reading before replying would help you before you start your pathetic generalisations)

Infact i supported a few posts above your/Kj's view on those things and criticized the poor performance of pacrew.

Focht, I do know you supported several of my statements and I appreciate you atleast try to understand my frustrations. During these past weeks, I've withnessed nothing but flames, accusations, assumptions and whatever dirt that can be thrown towards FAnG on AD and IRC. I mean, it is after all the alliance I put all my online time in, it's the alliance that I helped to create and establish as it is today.

So naturally I've been under quiet some stress these past few weeks, nonetheless that's my job so I'm not gonna whine about it either.

Now, when the planets got re-opened again, it meant a BIG relief to myself. Why? Because I hoped the bitching etc about FAnG = CHEAT would be over and pple would stop throwing things at us. And ofc the fact that I was glad that those pple didn't cheat and didn't betray FAnG.

And yes, I do consider them free of cheating. If there was solid proof, they'd have been deleted ...

But what do I see, after the got re-opened? I see Ely and tot HC and eclipse officers whine about how unfair this all is, I see them STILL accusing FAnG and those pple and I see them "suddenly" change opinion about PA crew.

I don't understand on what Outcast and Tomkat base their thoughts? I really would like to know. Do they base it on them being closed? Ifso, then TRUST PA - CREW's opinion. If that was true, they would have kept thrusting their judgement and they would accept the fact that they aren't closed anymore.

is it THAT impossible that all closed ones didn't cheat? Is there some code here that atleast 50% of the closed ones HAVE TO BE CHEATERS? I mean, it's allmost like pple HOPING that they cheated

One final bit ....

Why do I reply so much on AD? Simple, cause it involves FAnG. And maybe I'm not such a great speaker or such a great writer and I probably have less tact then dunno who, but that doesn't mean my opinions and my views mean less then those who can write it better then I can.

rgds Kj

[Tomkat]

Originally Posted by SPQR

But I, of course, understand why you are ****ing pissed now. You actually have to fight for your victory on the playing field now :eek: tsss..

That isn't the issue at all.

We are more annoyed that we now have to play against known cheaters. Which isn't a whole lot of fun.

For instance, how would you like to play against someone in.. say... Scrabble... but they were cheating, and able to make up any word they wanted? The issue would be that they are cheaters, not that we have to "fight for our victory", would it not?

[JonnyBGood]

The stance of PAteam on this issue has been voiced here to help everyone understand why actions such as these are taken and why, on occasion, incidents we would rather avoid may occur. We hope to have answered a few of your questions concerning this matter. Thank you. Case and thread closed.