Planetarion Forums

Ragrrr · 6 Nov 2003, 02:17

What will the top planets tactic be when they pass 6K roids?
If the penalties for having more roids than you can tow are harsh enough I suppose you'll see an end to their roiding, so what next?

Score for killing ships and structures might be the next step for them in that case.
But... for attacking they'll have to pick their targets from around top100 and up because of their own size, and theese players usually aren't caught off guard.
Are we going to see top planets concentrating on fleetcatches for kill score?
But again, if the penalties for having too many roids are harsh enough they might earn score for the killing, but end up loosing resources because of the roids they steal, that could otherwise be converted to score and value?
Defence killing would be another way to earn kill score, without getting roids, but attackers usually manage to get on to pull when there's defence.

At this point Cathaar with their high armour and low damage are doing very well in the top20, while xan with their low armour and high damage are barely to be seen. If killing is the way the top planets will have to get score from now on will we see a change in this?

I'm at least looking forward to see what tactics the top planets will be using once they hit 6K roids

General Martok · 6 Nov 2003, 09:21

I think they will continue to attack. Every roid they steel can't be mined by the enemy. And roids themselve give score too. The one thing I am afraid for is roidswapping. E.g. a top100 elysium planet taking 1k roids from a top10 Eclipse planet, so the eclipse planet goes back to 6k roids, and Elysium can grow harder. (alliances random picked from top5

)

Eventh · 6 Nov 2003, 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Martok

I think they will continue to attack. Every roid they steel can't be mined by the enemy. And roids themselve give score too. The one thing I am afraid for is roidswapping. E.g. a top100 elysium planet taking 1k roids from a top10 Eclipse planet, so the eclipse planet goes back to 6k roids, and Elysium can grow harder. (alliances random picked from top5

)

Elysium cant attack elysium, without leaveing elysium for 72 hours and beeing not able to get defence.
but maybe roidswapping inside the block, but i dont think that will happend either..

But i agree that they will continue to roid, since the penalty is too small, and roids gives score..

Andy_r · 6 Nov 2003, 16:03

The way to gain value after 6k is to concentrate on finance centres, and whoever realised this first will have a big advantage.

I hope we will see the '6k club' switching to structure-killing each other for score and leaving the rest of us alone to catch up.

General Martok · 6 Nov 2003, 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eventh

Elysium cant attack elysium, without leaveing elysium for 72 hours and beeing not able to get defence.
but maybe roidswapping inside the block, but i dont think that will happend either..

But i agree that they will continue to roid, since the penalty is too small, and roids gives score..

Learn to read ffs :P

BTW my GC has about 80 finance centres already roughly...

Ragrrr · 6 Nov 2003, 19:35

Roid swapping within the block would be a lame and efficient way of earning score for killing and roiding while not losing out on any resources AND helping mates grow. It's farming tho, and hopefully won't go unoticed.
Finance centers will be to great help without doubt, terran (and xan?) with their lower construction times might have an edge when it comes to that as well.

Personally I managed to think it was 0,5% per day not tick, don't ask.

Eventh · 6 Nov 2003, 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Martok

Learn to read ffs :P

BTW my GC has about 80 finance centres already roughly...

hmm, soz for that.. but i dont think eclipse planet would be willing to loose score so an elysium planet would gain score cheap??

General Martok · 6 Nov 2003, 23:02

Depends. If the income penalty is really high 8 or 9k roids would only give him the income of 4k roids. You'd loose some score with the roids, true, but your higher income is worth it. And your msaller alliancemates would do the same vise versa....

Ofc it's farming and cheating, but that has never stopped the biggest alliances.....

dabult · 7 Nov 2003, 23:13

The penalty probably isnt as bad as some seem to think.

When i had 180 i could mine 100, i got an income that equaled approx 110-120. When i reached 200 i got income that equaled 100.

IF it holds the same pattern all the way, this means a player need to have 12001 roids before he starts to actually loose income.

General Martok · 8 Nov 2003, 15:03

I think you forget something. When you had 180 roids you probably had mines too, maybe finance centres(would be unwise so early inround, but still..) and engineering bonus. 180 roids might ahve give you teh income of 90 roids, and the mines/bonusses filled it up to 110/120. So after you gained 20 more, your income dropped with the same amouth , eg 20 roids income.

With 12k roids you would get income of the first 6k roids and a penalty for the latter 6k roids. Would mean 0 income, only income you'd get was the bonusses/mines... Probably waay too big penalty, but i think that as soon as you pass 6k roids, your income will fall....

dabult · 8 Nov 2003, 15:25

Well considering how early in the round it was, i doubt i had many mines tbh...i know i researched the first one or two for roids (100) then went straight for bigger ships. But you do have a point, really is annoying with all these secret formulas and stuff this round :P

General Martok · 8 Nov 2003, 19:21

Yeah. I hate it that that furmula isn't published. Same for the score formula, and the roids-steal formula. Stats I can live with, since those are easier to find out....

Dr_Evil · 9 Nov 2003, 14:35

Being in the unpaid universe, and only getting income from 300 of my roids, this is what I get per tick:

Resource Type-----Asteroids--Extraction--Mines--*Bonus---Total
METAL----------------540-------135000-----1000----4200----32200
CRYSTAL------------498-------124500---13000-----5662---43412
EONIUM--------------461-------115250-----4000----4050----31050

So I guess it will be about the same with the 6k limit.

mikay · 9 Nov 2003, 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Martok

Yeah. I hate it that that furmula isn't published. Same for the score formula, and the roids-steal formula. Stats I can live with, since those are easier to find out....

I love it this way. It finally introduces a shred of skill into the whole game.

dabult · 9 Nov 2003, 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikay

I love it this way. It finally introduces a shred of skill into the whole game.

Where do the skills come, due to not explaining things in the manual ?

mikay · 9 Nov 2003, 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by dabult

Where do the skills come, due to not explaining things in the manual ?

You observe the playing environment and work out what is going on. Nobody explained gravity to Isaac Newton, he just observed the environment and came up with the formula. Strangely knowing Newtonian Laws doesn't seem to help sportsmen. Jockey Wilson never professed to be a physics professor when he was hitting treble-20 - he just observed how things seemed to work before and adjusted it a little....

General Martok · 9 Nov 2003, 23:48

I'm not saying i want exact numbers or something. I just want an explanation about the theory behind some things. Do the missions make any difference when defending (not ships, but roids, buildings, etc). You can't expect me to test that with real ships and roids, my members wouldn't like me sending test-attackfleets etc

mikay · 10 Nov 2003, 01:24

Ball park figure you need to take <20% losses to cap and <12% to get a full cap. As with every round the intent is to make the target run rather than take overwhelming losses - ie there usually isn't a battle. If there is credible defence then the attacker will usually pull. Pretty much the way it always was - take losses and cap less.

Now if you make your objective to kill 20-25% of the attacking fleet you basically won't lose roids. Stick your defence on ships/ships and kill some attackers. If roids/roids did reduce the chance to cap I still can't see any reason to do less damage given the option. Nowhere in the rules does it say roids/roids achieves anything in defence , dunno why people even listened to this rumour.

Having more roids than you can effectively mine reduces your income. I explained how this works on another thread on here. Say you have 9700 roids and can mike 6000 - does it really matter if you are 1% under or over what you expect to get but the simple fact is those extra roids won't increase income.

Fact is precision in almost every single aspect of this game is irrelevant, it never influences the final decision. Do it on instinct - it worked for Luke Skywalker.