Planetarion Forums - I've worked out who Bush's role model is.

Gayle29uk · 8 Apr 2003, 17:15

Quote:

Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger.

Do those tactics sound familiar? The PATRIOT act was snowed through by telling people they were unpatriotic if they voted against it.

Anyone not supporting war in Iraq is unpatriotic and not caring about the great threat that Iraq is to their own country.

Looks like Bush has been reading history, anyone recognise the quote?

Snurx · 8 Apr 2003, 17:16

No, but i know that i should...

Its brilliant, by the way. But pretty scary.

menth0l · 8 Apr 2003, 17:17

It's either Göring or Goebbels.

I'll go with Hermann Göring.

Gayle29uk · 8 Apr 2003, 17:18

Quote:

Originally posted by menth0l
I'll go with Hermann Göring.

Correct

menth0l · 8 Apr 2003, 17:21

[American Beauty]

I rule!

[/American Beauty]

menth0l · 8 Apr 2003, 17:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Iniluki

Surely not. But he's clearly taken some lessons from him!

NEWSBOT3 · 8 Apr 2003, 17:30

Does anyone else expect some crappy anti-war 'opinion' from gayle's posts before readin them these days ?

Cynical Oracle · 8 Apr 2003, 17:32

The German leaders was undeniably the best propagandists ever.

mpr0733 · 8 Apr 2003, 17:34

I actually just realised that my mouth sort of fell open when reading this.

Somebody please tell me that this is a delayed april oneth prank, please?

Nodrog · 8 Apr 2003, 17:48

Quote:

Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.

It loses something without the first part :/

Nodrog · 8 Apr 2003, 17:50

Quote:

Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so.

How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar.

(although it isnt actually be Caesar, its still pretty good)

Gayle29uk · 8 Apr 2003, 17:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Nodrog
(although it isnt actually be Caesar, its still pretty good)

Agreed, here's the relevant snopes page for it

Texan · 8 Apr 2003, 18:05

The ultimate propaganda from Gayle. Misquote someone, then say that someone else is like the person who was misquoted in the first place. Good job. You are starting to become just like them. Couple more years of practice and I will bet there will be no difference.

Gayle29uk · 8 Apr 2003, 18:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Texan
The ultimate propaganda from Gayle. Misquote someone, then say that someone else is like the person who was misquoted in the first place. Good job. You are starting to become just like them. Couple more years of practice and I will bet there will be no difference.

Misquote? Scuse me? The part I missed off that Nodrog added makes it worse not better.

JonnyBGood · 8 Apr 2003, 18:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Texan
The ultimate propaganda from Gayle. Misquote someone, then say that someone else is like the person who was misquoted in the first place. Good job. You are starting to become just like them. Couple more years of practice and I will bet there will be no difference.

To be honest I never really thought there was a difference in the first place.

queball · 8 Apr 2003, 18:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Gayle29uk
Do those tactics sound familiar? The PATRIOT act was snowed through by telling people they were unpatriotic if they voted against it.

Anyone not supporting war in Iraq is unpatriotic and not caring about the great threat that Iraq is to their own country.

Looks like Bush has been reading history, anyone recognise the quote?

(4, Insightful)!

Texan · 8 Apr 2003, 19:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Gayle29uk
Misquote? Scuse me? The part I missed off that Nodrog added makes it worse not better.

I think the original quote has much more clarity. The farmer is lucky if he survives to return to his farm. That is the only thing he gets out of the war, whereas your quote makes it seem like the "people" are noble in some way because they think "war is bad," and governments are evil because they convince the people that war can sometimes be necessary.

Bottom line of the original quote: Farmers never benefit from war. Governments sometimes do.

Bottom line of your quote: The "noble" people hate war. Government will make them do it anyway using propaganda.

Anyway, that is how I read the differences in the two quotes. I suspect you got the corrupt quoted from someone who was able to see the difference in the two quotes and re-word the quote to make it seem at its most evil.

Structural Integrity · 8 Apr 2003, 19:55

The thing sounds familiar. I've heard about the same thing from a Dutch military expert in the new program Nova (I think). He even said that people were called "traitors" by their fellow Americans if they didn't support the war.

I find this absurd and if this is true I consider American patriotism an extremism as dangerous as bad forms of anti-Americanism in the middle east that the US is trying to fight.

Sub · 8 Apr 2003, 19:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Texan
Bottom line of the original quote: Farmers never benefit from war. Governments sometimes do.

I think you missed the point in this quote.

Marilyn Manson · 8 Apr 2003, 20:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Texan
Bottom line of the original quote: Farmers never benefit from war.

Not if they're selling killer atmoic sprouts.

SPQR · 8 Apr 2003, 20:15

TBH Texan, it seems like you didn't even WANT to understand the quote. Yeah, as a US patriot like you this quote must really hurt.

Emperorn · 8 Apr 2003, 21:48

The nazi leaders were smart people, I don't see why it is such a big fuzz that one of them said something clever and essentially true. At least it was back then when people did not have the insight and access to the wealth of information they have today.

Real point here is that most americans are still living in an information vacuum, being as ignorant and easy to string along as any dumb farmer in he past. So, for Bush this is gospel.