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Unread 29 May 2012, 05:44   #1
Tiamat101
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Reworking the Research Tree

So I think a change is in order to mix things up a bit. The new proposed Research tree with new RP costs and rearanging the order and adding some new things.

Basic Propulsion
You have not yet spent time researching this branch. Default Eta: Ingal Eta 8; Cr/bs eta 13; fr/de Eta 12; fi/co eta 11

Jumpgate
This research will make our vessels travel 1 tick faster when traveling outside our own galaxy.
Research Points: 0/1600

Warpgate
This research will make our vessels travel 1 tick faster when traveling inside or outside your own Galaxy.
Research Points: 0/4200

Stargate
This research will make our vessels travel 1 tick faster when traveling inside or outside your own Galaxy.
Research Points: 0/5600

Hypergate
This research will make our vessels travel 1 tick faster when traveling inside or outside your own Galaxy.
Research Points: 0/7200



Basic Infrastructure
You have not yet spent time researching this branch and can build a maximum of 20 constructions.

Infrastructure Upgrade
Allows having a total of 40 Constuctions and increases your CP by +5%
Research Points: 0/2400

Improved Power Grid
Allows having a total of 75 constructions and increases you CP by +8%
Research Points: 0/4200

Advanced Power Systems
Allows having a total of 150 constructions and increases your Cp by +10%
Research Points: 0/5600

Advanced Infrastructure
Allows having a total of 250 constructions. And increases you Cp by +10% and reduces the cost of all buildings by 10%.
Research Points: 0/7200

Basic Production
You have not yet spent time researching this branch and are unable to build spaceships.

Cruiser Class Hulls
Provides access to the biggest ships available, and a special ship tailored to destroy structures.
Research Points: 0/2400

Frigate Class Hulls
Enables production of Frigate and Destroyer class ships.
Research Points: 0/5600

Fighter Class Hulls
Enables production of Fighter and Corvette class ships.
Research Points: 0/8600


Waves Are fine for moment I don't see any reason to change them or Cov-ops as they seem to be working just as effectively or ineffectively as we want.

Basic Core Extraction
This technology will allow a total of 1000 of each type resource to be extracted every tick from your home planet.

Advanced Core Extraction
This technology will allow a total of 4000 of each type resource to be extracted every tick and a Bonus production of +2%
Research Points: 0/3200

Expert Core Extraction
This technology will allow a total of 10000 of each type resource to be extracted every tick and a bonus production of +4%
Research Points: 0/6400

Deep Core Drilling
This technology will allow a total of 18000 of each type resource to be extracted every tick and a bonus production of +6%.
Research Points: 0/8600

Magma Extraction
This technology will allow a total of 40000 of each type resource to be extracted every tick and a bonus production of +11%
Research Points: 0/9600




HCT: Remapped
Level 1: 200 roids 0/1200
Level 2: 350 roids 0/1600
Level 3: 500 roids 0/2400
Level 4: 750 roids 0/3200
Level 5: 1100 Roids 0/3800
Level 6: 1500 roids 0/4800
Level 7: 2000 roids 0/6400
Level 8: 2750 roids 0/8200
Level 9: 3500 roids 0/9600
Level 10: 4000 roids 0/9600
Level 11 5000+ roids 0/11500


Now most of this would be up for debate But mainly the changes are to cause a change in the style of play of the game. Right now the style is fixed on either Cr/bs ally's or Fi/co ally's which is lame. Hopefully this would weaken fi/co at the start of rounds and make people really commit to a fi/co strat instead of just being able to start fi/co and work into cr/bs. Also starting with the slowest and working your way down actually benifits people that don't start offensive as the further down the tech tree you get the lower your eta gets so tt-1 cr is still the same eta as fr tt-0 etc etc... I also increased the costs of the hulls so that even a cath with max research would still have to bonus to get fi/co and it'd have 0 tt to go with it, so it'd still be easy roiding but they wouldnt have any hct or any tt to go with it. *choices*

As far as some of the other changes its just to actually encourage people to go further into some of the tree's early. Cons to allow for a more Ter CP build to actually get much farther ahead in amps/dists/value(cons). Also in the case of Going Core would give people that decided to go Corp or heavy mining bonus would be able to capitalize further on there high roid counts.

As for HCT I really have an issue right now with the 750 ->1000 ->1250 hcts the gaps are just too small, as i said up for debate.

I also am well aware that nothing at all will come of this, Mz will post something like "Oh why would we change things that aren't broken." and Kai will post " Tiamats you stupid "insert 1 thing he finds wrong" wont work because it makes "x" worse. However If there are any people that are actually open to change and willing to sit down and actually talk about changes to be made to this game I've actually proposed some that would not drastically, but would effect at least the first 400-600 ticks of a round.
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Unread 29 May 2012, 09:00   #2
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Re: Reworking the Research Tree

I am a little confused on how swapping cr/bs with fi/co on the Hulls tree makes game play "better", surely it is just a straight swap for fi/co people to have cr/bs to roid with instead and benefits those who want to rush for cr/bs?

An idea would be to break it into 6 and allow choice of which to research 1 research for fi 1 research for co 1 research for fr and so on, and then i want to research fr first and i can.

i dont like having ingal eta 8 to begin with because the the reason it is 5 is because you dont have to go FTL to travel a super long distance

i do like the bonus given for certain researches.
and i would like to see other research options to add a bonus as a seperate tree, like a bonus to armor or weapons, +1-2% bonus
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Unread 29 May 2012, 09:03   #3
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Re: Reworking the Research Tree

What's the "production bonus"? Is that a bonus on all income or just roids + core res (similar to fcs / population / etc)
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Unread 29 May 2012, 09:35   #4
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Re: Reworking the Research Tree

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Originally Posted by Appocomaster View Post
What's the "production bonus"? Is that a bonus on all income or just roids + core res (similar to fcs / population / etc)
Just like FC's and population etc.

Blue Esper, You don't need to have tt in order to defend ingal, the Longest Ingal Eta is 8 and shortest attack Eta is 8. I guess if you no 0 tt and they have tt-4 fi/co then you cant defend ingal. Its just there to mix things up a bit. As for the Hulls, If everyone starts with cr/bs and has to work to fi/co then each level of hulls is like getting tt-1 because they are 1 eta faster. It means that rushing through the hulls tree is a) more time consuming b) much more dynamic of an impact c) will actually give you a benifit. Since not everyone will have fi/co till ~~ 200ish. Unlike now where there are rounds/stats that races don't even need to get to cr/bs hulls. This way is stretches the benifits of actually getting gov's that give +research.
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Unread 29 May 2012, 11:48   #5
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Re: Reworking the Research Tree

I would like to see an added scan for alliance id this will be an added plus for smaller alliances to help with intel and for non- alliance planets this can be inserted anywhere in the wave tree but most likely at the end
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Unread 29 May 2012, 12:29   #6
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Re: Reworking the Research Tree

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Esper View Post
I am a little confused on how swapping cr/bs with fi/co on the Hulls tree makes game play "better", surely it is just a straight swap for fi/co people to have cr/bs to roid with instead and benefits those who want to rush for cr/bs?
I always thought it was the logical choice to begin with that the primary benefit of the classes are the eta reduction rather than their attributes. Afterall, all stats every round just come down to A/C, D/C, init, and counter targeting but the eta benefit never changes. If people want to fi/co rush then make them do it properly and have to overtake the fr/de class anti-fi/co with longer research to compensate the eta advantages.
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Unread 29 May 2012, 12:35   #7
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Re: Reworking the Research Tree

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
So I think a change is in order to mix things up a bit.
I'll be honest. When I read this, I wanted to stab you over the internet. Change for the sake of change is retarded. However, as I read on, I saw you had some actual reasons for the changes you proposed, so instead, let's go over them without bloodshed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Basic Propulsion
You have not yet spent time researching this branch. Default Eta: Ingal Eta 8; Cr/bs eta 13; fr/de Eta 12; fi/co eta 11

Jumpgate
This research will make our vessels travel 1 tick faster when traveling outside our own galaxy.
Research Points: 0/1600

Warpgate
This research will make our vessels travel 1 tick faster when traveling inside or outside your own Galaxy.
Research Points: 0/4200

Stargate
This research will make our vessels travel 1 tick faster when traveling inside or outside your own Galaxy.
Research Points: 0/5600

Hypergate
This research will make our vessels travel 1 tick faster when traveling inside or outside your own Galaxy.
Research Points: 0/7200
I've thought for some time that the conflict of choice between galaxies and alliances is something PA should do without. If making galaxy defense less strong is indeed what you intended here (you did not explain your reasons, but that's the only thing I can think of), then while I agree with the goal, I disagree with the means. Unfortunately, the removal of galaxies (Heartless' and my proposed solution) has 1) been discussed to death and 2) is unlikely to ever happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Basic Infrastructure
You have not yet spent time researching this branch and can build a maximum of 20 constructions.

Infrastructure Upgrade
Allows having a total of 40 Constuctions and increases your CP by +5%
Research Points: 0/2400

Improved Power Grid
Allows having a total of 75 constructions and increases you CP by +8%
Research Points: 0/4200

Advanced Power Systems
Allows having a total of 150 constructions and increases your Cp by +10%
Research Points: 0/5600

Advanced Infrastructure
Allows having a total of 250 constructions. And increases you Cp by +10% and reduces the cost of all buildings by 10%.
Research Points: 0/7200
Why these changes? How does it make the game better? I don't really have much against them, but they seem pretty pointless to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Basic Production
You have not yet spent time researching this branch and are unable to build spaceships.

Cruiser Class Hulls
Provides access to the biggest ships available, and a special ship tailored to destroy structures.
Research Points: 0/2400

Frigate Class Hulls
Enables production of Frigate and Destroyer class ships.
Research Points: 0/5600

Fighter Class Hulls
Enables production of Fighter and Corvette class ships.
Research Points: 0/8600
I am in favour of doing something about the power of fi/co. My approach is to swap the travel times. Bigger ships get bigger engines, get more speed, get lower travel time. Swapping the researches works just as well, with one limitation: changing the order of research gives everyone SKs right away, while changing the travel times does not. Since it doesn't make sense to research tiny ships alongside planet glassers, I prefer the travel time approach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Waves Are fine for moment I don't see any reason to change them
Holy shit, are you serious!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Basic Core Extraction
This technology will allow a total of 1000 of each type resource to be extracted every tick from your home planet.

Advanced Core Extraction
This technology will allow a total of 4000 of each type resource to be extracted every tick and a Bonus production of +2%
Research Points: 0/3200

Expert Core Extraction
This technology will allow a total of 10000 of each type resource to be extracted every tick and a bonus production of +4%
Research Points: 0/6400

Deep Core Drilling
This technology will allow a total of 18000 of each type resource to be extracted every tick and a bonus production of +6%.
Research Points: 0/8600

Magma Extraction
This technology will allow a total of 40000 of each type resource to be extracted every tick and a bonus production of +11%
Research Points: 0/9600
Two things: One, core extraction is already really good. Making them another 60% stronger is a bad move, in my most humbly opinion. Two, a flat income bonus is unnecessary, because FCs already provide this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
HCT: Remapped
Level 1: 200 roids 0/1200
Level 2: 350 roids 0/1600
Level 3: 500 roids 0/2400
Level 4: 750 roids 0/3200
Level 5: 1100 Roids 0/3800
Level 6: 1500 roids 0/4800
Level 7: 2000 roids 0/6400
Level 8: 2750 roids 0/8200
Level 9: 3500 roids 0/9600
Level 10: 4000 roids 0/9600
Level 11: 5000+ roids 0/11500
You're right in that there's a bottleneck at 1000/1250/1500. However, I don't think that's a problem. Only the top planets are affected by it, which forces them to make a choice between getting incoming scans and HCT. Since every sane player will choose HCT, this makes top planets more vulnerable to fake attacks. I think this is a good thing, it's the kind of organic learning curve that I really love.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
I also am well aware that nothing at all will come of this, Mz will post something like "Oh why would we change things that aren't broken." and Kai will post " Tiamats you stupid "insert 1 thing he finds wrong" wont work because it makes "x" worse.
Guess you don't need to read my post at all, considering how accurate your prediction of my response was! Oh, wait, no, that's the opposite of true. Huh.

P.S. Amusingly, I didn't read your last paragraph until I was halfway through writing my reply.

P.P.S. Stop nesting quotes, they hurt my brain.

P.P.P.S. Less self-pity, please: sayin that no one cares about what you write is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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Unread 29 May 2012, 13:16   #8
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Re: Reworking the Research Tree

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post


Why these changes? How does it make the game better? I don't really have much against them, but they seem pretty pointless to me.

These changes are to give research a bigger impact on the game beyond tick 300/400. Right now as soon as you get your tt done there really is no rush on getting other research done because theres no long term benifit. Sure getting inc scans would be nice and being able to get the hct faster is cool but it only really affects top tier planets as you said below. With the changes to Cp and prod bonus it means theres a long term benifit from getting those researches early. Its possible that you could get 250 cons 1/2 way through the round with the bonuses to CP and reduced costs. That would give you a HUGE increase in value over the rest of the uni that would be sitting on ~~ 120 cons.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post


I am in favour of doing something about the power of fi/co. My approach is to swap the travel times. Bigger ships get bigger engines, get more speed, get lower travel time. Swapping the researches works just as well, with one limitation: changing the order of research gives everyone SKs right away, while changing the travel times does not. Since it doesn't make sense to research tiny ships alongside planet glassers, I prefer the travel time approach.

I would also move the SK's/ Resource ships to the 3rd tier of research. I don't like the idea of changing the eta's of the ships themselves but the swapping of the order would cause some people to consider if they want to run a xan fi alliance, as it would take them a while to get to fi/co and also when they go them any fr/de with tt-1 would be able to defend them so it would put more power to cr/bs and fr/de earlier in the round, and fi/co would be strong late round like it usually is.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post


Two things: One, core extraction is already really good. Making them another 60% stronger is a bad move, in my most humbly opinion. Two, a flat income bonus is unnecessary, because FCs already provide this.
Once again going back to making research stronger and giving more planet choices and having people make sacrafices, do you really want to get that hct 6 or get the extra + 6% mining bonus and bonus resources. Which would make it so there were a lot more variability between the planets espeically top planets that could now get close to +100% mining.


As I mentioned before i made this suggestion to be just that a suggestion and want to gage reactions from it. They are not huge changes and prolly would not be implemented all at once.

As for your waves comment you think that scans need to be changed? I think cov-ops need a tune-up as far as some of the things you can do with them, There are a few opperations that don't have a purpose and I am sure there can be better ones that people will actually use.
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Unread 29 May 2012, 14:57   #9
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Re: Reworking the Research Tree

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
As for HCT I really have an issue right now with the 750 ->1000 ->1250 hcts the gaps are just too small, as i said up for debate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
<snip>...... being able to get the hct faster is cool but it only really affects top tier planets as you said below. With the changes to Cp and prod bonus it means theres a long term benifit from getting those researches early. Its possible that you could get 250 cons 1/2 way through the round with the bonuses to CP and reduced costs. That would give you a HUGE increase in value over the rest of the uni that would be sitting on ~~ 120 cons.

<snip>

Once again going back to making research stronger and giving more planet choices and having people make sacrafices, do you really want to get that hct 6 or get the extra + 6% mining bonus and bonus resources. Which would make it so there were a lot more variability between the planets espeically top planets that could now get close to +100% mining.
Just an observation. The original restrictions in these areas were introduced specifically to prevent "top planets" running away from "the rest". They haven't been completely successful but I'm not sure that we want to make it easier for the top planets to pull further away from the pack and become even harder to hit.

In the other areas, I have no problem with giving players more (useful) choices in an attempt to make the game more interesting.
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Unread 29 May 2012, 16:36   #10
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Re: Reworking the Research Tree

Kinda like the swapping of classes, but no need to make em faster 11-4=7 so ships would be 1 tick faster than they are now since fi is 8 now.

Production bonus = mining bonus, right? Production bonus is something you get for ships to produce em faster lets not mix em up :P

2 many bonuses on research tho, research govern would get op but guess thats tweakable.

Go with the class change for a round and leave the rest imo

Rushing fi might be imba tho. As when you rush cr/bs(today) you get shitty eta, when you rush fi(in potential future) your eta wont be bad at all.
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Unread 29 May 2012, 16:57   #11
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Re: Reworking the Research Tree

Think about it this way Arc, a top planet is not going to have to the time to get infa 4 early in the the round thus risk losing time for hct or getting there inc scan before tick 400. I also increase the research time just in general on a few of the areas to compensate for the bonus' added.

As for PLaguu Yes i intended to keep them the same eta as now only making ingal def default slower. Also because i made the Hulls tree longer to get fi, the people that get fr/de hulls will have an extra 8.5k RP to work with, so those people that rush fi will nto have time to get any of there TT done and with Fr hulls its possible to have up to tt-2 done at the same time so the Fr/de would actually have a faster eta than the fi/co. It was suggested to make fi/co less good at the start of the round and put stronger impact on fr/de fleets earlier in the round. But yes i am with you on trying these out. I think we should try the Hulls change and see what happens, just not with these stats
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Unread 29 May 2012, 17:55   #12
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Re: Reworking the Research Tree

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
These changes are to give research a bigger impact on the game beyond tick 300/400. Right now as soon as you get your tt done there really is no rush on getting other research done because theres no long term benifit. Sure getting inc scans would be nice and being able to get the hct faster is cool but it only really affects top tier planets as you said below. With the changes to Cp and prod bonus it means theres a long term benifit from getting those researches early. Its possible that you could get 250 cons 1/2 way through the round with the bonuses to CP and reduced costs. That would give you a HUGE increase in value over the rest of the uni that would be sitting on ~~ 120 cons.
I have nothing against making research more important (though I don't really see the point), but the changes you proposed do not allow you to get double the number of constructions as everyone else, nor do I think that kind of imbalance is desireable, even if it did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
I would also move the SK's/ Resource ships to the 3rd tier of research. I don't like the idea of changing the eta's of the ships themselves but the swapping of the order would cause some people to consider if they want to run a xan fi alliance, as it would take them a while to get to fi/co and also when they go them any fr/de with tt-1 would be able to defend them so it would put more power to cr/bs and fr/de earlier in the round, and fi/co would be strong late round like it usually is.
I said moving SKs to fi/co research made no sense, so not "also". Anyway, agreed with the rest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Once again going back to making research stronger and giving more planet choices and having people make sacrafices, do you really want to get that hct 6 or get the extra + 6% mining bonus and bonus resources. Which would make it so there were a lot more variability between the planets espeically top planets that could now get close to +100% mining.
My point was that that choice already exists, and is probably slightly favoured in the direction of core mining. I don't think it's an exaggeration when I say that that particular change would be the most unbalancing one since the Dictatorship stealth bonus in round 22, which itself was the biggest unbalancing change since XP in r16.

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
As for your waves comment you think that scans need to be changed? I think cov-ops need a tune-up as far as some of the things you can do with them, There are a few opperations that don't have a purpose and I am sure there can be better ones that people will actually use.
As far as I remember, 'scans are broken' is a consensus view. The current wave branch makes it impossible for newbies to play for themselves. You need dedicated scanners to reach advanced unit scans at a reasonable pace and while landing scans were an improvement over the condition of scans prior to their introduction, they are still almost useless. Additionally, some people feel distorters contribute overly much to newbie bashing, though that is something I don't agree with.

This is a topic that's been discussed regularly, so it should be fairly easy to find some threads on PS about it.
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Unread 29 May 2012, 18:23   #13
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Re: Reworking the Research Tree

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
As far as I remember, 'scans are broken' is a consensus view. The current wave branch makes it impossible for newbies to play for themselves. You need dedicated scanners to reach advanced unit scans at a reasonable pace and while landing scans were an improvement over the condition of scans prior to their introduction, they are still almost useless. Additionally, some people feel distorters contribute overly much to newbie bashing, though that is something I don't agree with.

And to that I completely agree, but that's not something that fixing the research tree can accomodate. That's a total overhaul to the system and would likely require the PA team to either higher a programmer to code in all the changes or cause Cin[away] to spend way too much time trying to a) come up with the idea and b) find a way to code it in.

As for the other aspects I want to make some of the non-tt/hct more enticing to start with instead of just going hct2 hulls1 tt1 as your start up.
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Unread 29 May 2012, 18:39   #14
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Re: Reworking the Research Tree

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
And to that I completely agree, but that's not something that fixing the research tree can accomodate.
Not really. Improving landing scans and making cloaked ships show up on unit scans would go a long way.
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Unread 29 May 2012, 19:11   #15
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Re: Reworking the Research Tree

I may be missing something here but i dont see how these changes promote attacking play, which is what PA needs. All the research/construction changes seem to be aimed towards playing a defensive valuewhore.

I dont get the need to swap Fi/Co and Cr/Bs. Surely we will just up with the main alliances all playing cr/bs normally and a few smaller allies rushing fi/co - basically what we have now but in reverse. Or everyone will play fr/de and stagnate the round to buggery.

I liked what MZ said about swapping the ETA of Cr/Bs and Fi/Co... that made far more sense and seemed to level the playing feild more than your suggestion.

Scans are FUBAR!! No one can play without an alliance to an acceptable standard without them. The itroduction of instant L scan reduced this glaring point to a degree but nowhere near enough. You would be better just giving everyone all scans to start off with stop the need to alliance scanners. Maybe have a small Alliance Research Tree with bigger completion rate to give some added extra - like an intel scan (shows players ingame name and alliance) that would help smaller allies maybe with spotting who is bashing them!!

The core change makes cores way way to OP, a lot of people are already switching to doing them before TT research, no need to make it even more blatant.

I agree with Mz about the HCT 'bottlenecking' issue. It keeps top players from running away, if you removed it then the top 10 would be far clear of those just below them after 400-500 ticks.


I dont think your stupid Tia, i think your misguided in your pursuit of changing PA to make it better in your eyes. You openly admit you play PA in defensive nature, the changes seemed geared to that way of playing - that makes them bad for PA as a whole. Inting and whoring does more damage for PA than any OP fi/co fleet ever will, we need to cut out the 'farmatarion' setup that is worming its way into PA.

I will as a minor troll add that none of these changes will never happen as a result of this thread, due to the PA team not having the time or inclination to change what currently 'works' and the owner for not giving a hoot about its purchase!!!
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Unread 30 May 2012, 03:04   #16
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Re: Reworking the Research Tree

This game lacks options. I suggest replace covops with with a something more fun, a research tree which is not so linear. One that gives you bonus's to your planet. here are some ideas

No changes to races. So xan is still a cloaked race, but allow each race the option to have:

A research that allows cloaking ship, which provides cloak for a # of ships depending on their ER, but is not cloaked itself, it also doesn't attack. This ship is now "unlocked" from production page. cloak can be 3-4 tierd increasing the power of cloak generators to cloak more ships.

A research that allows EMP, you can then select a ship(s) and turn them into EMP, then you need to build EMP generators from the cons page for those ships make them like 5-10 CP so you can build a few a tick for each ship, EMP can be tierd increasing the power of EMP generators to EMP more ships.

A research that gives the ability to steal you can then select a ship(s) and turn them into stealing type. This is also tierd increasing the power of stealing

A research that increases the bonus of the armor of ships with a couple of tiers for a small increase.

A research that increases the bonus of the damage of ships with a couple of tiers for a small increase.

A research that gives you the ability to salvage constructions.


I believe that adding these features will improve the game.

Edit: Obviously this is a rough idea, i would say that a terran creating a cloak ship would need more cloak ships due to the ER that they have
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Last edited by Blue_Esper; 30 May 2012 at 03:07. Reason: some last minute thoughts
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Unread 30 May 2012, 08:31   #17
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Re: Reworking the Research Tree

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Esper View Post
This game lacks options. I suggest replace covops with with a something more fun, a research tree which is not so linear. One that gives you bonus's to your planet. here are some ideas

No changes to races. So xan is still a cloaked race, but allow each race the option to have:

A research that allows cloaking ship, which provides cloak for a # of ships depending on their ER, but is not cloaked itself, it also doesn't attack. This ship is now "unlocked" from production page. cloak can be 3-4 tierd increasing the power of cloak generators to cloak more ships.

A research that allows EMP, you can then select a ship(s) and turn them into EMP, then you need to build EMP generators from the cons page for those ships make them like 5-10 CP so you can build a few a tick for each ship, EMP can be tierd increasing the power of EMP generators to EMP more ships.

A research that gives the ability to steal you can then select a ship(s) and turn them into stealing type. This is also tierd increasing the power of stealing

A research that increases the bonus of the armor of ships with a couple of tiers for a small increase.

A research that increases the bonus of the damage of ships with a couple of tiers for a small increase.

A research that gives you the ability to salvage constructions.


I believe that adding these features will improve the game.

Edit: Obviously this is a rough idea, i would say that a terran creating a cloak ship would need more cloak ships due to the ER that they have
This really sounds way to complicated, as stats wont be the actual stats.
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Unread 30 May 2012, 08:52   #18
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Re: Reworking the Research Tree

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Originally Posted by TheoDD View Post
This really sounds way to complicated, as stats wont be the actual stats.
The stats would be the basic stats, and then you can add a bonus to those wouldn't be that hard
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Unread 30 May 2012, 10:25   #19
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Re: Reworking the Research Tree

Although I can see the merits of your idea blue_esper I think as theodd said it is complex and would require a major reworking of how pa is Played. Even tho I don't like a lot of tias suggestions atleast they are all simPle changes that would take to no time to integrate and don't change how the core game is plaued
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Unread 31 May 2012, 17:10   #20
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Re: Reworking the Research Tree

Hmm... some interesting thoughts. Let me throw a slightly different take on research and something that could make things interesting. Hopefully I use the right words to get my idea across clearly.

Instead of having a fixed cost on certain research how about we do a gradual cost. I am just going to use Tia's post since I am too lazy to write it all out and put in the acutal values. Just take the research points out of the following and ignore the rest

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Basic Propulsion
You have not yet spent time researching this branch. Default Eta: Ingal Eta 8; Cr/bs eta 13; fr/de Eta 12; fi/co eta 11

Jumpgate
This research will make our vessels travel 1 tick faster when traveling outside our own galaxy.
Research Points: 0/1600

Warpgate
This research will make our vessels travel 1 tick faster when traveling inside or outside your own Galaxy.
Research Points: 0/4200

Stargate
This research will make our vessels travel 1 tick faster when traveling inside or outside your own Galaxy.
Research Points: 0/5600

Hypergate
This research will make our vessels travel 1 tick faster when traveling inside or outside your own Galaxy.
Research Points: 0/7200



Basic Production
You have not yet spent time researching this branch and are unable to build spaceships.

Cruiser Class Hulls
Provides access to the biggest ships available, and a special ship tailored to destroy structures.
Research Points: 0/2400

Frigate Class Hulls
Enables production of Frigate and Destroyer class ships.
Research Points: 0/5600

Fighter Class Hulls
Enables production of Fighter and Corvette class ships.
Research Points: 0/8600
So the above is what research kinda looks like at the moment. My proposal is that instead of hardcodeing research points to specific research we instad have research based on the how many you have done. For instance the 1st reaserch you do costs you 1000 research points, the 2nd 1500, the 3rd 2000 etc....

Bascially what this means is that you could research Basica propolsion for 1000RP, Jumpgate for 1500RP and Fighter Class Hulls for 2000RP. This would benefit smaller alliances or people that are playing solo since they can then race up the scan or core tree. Also alliances that have a CR/BS strategy can also race up to those ships or people that are aggressive roiders can race up the travel tree. It might make the universe more spread out in terms of what their strategy is.

My above suggestion can be split into 2 ways of implementing it.

First method:

All research is avaliable for everyone and the progression is that the research cost increases by 500 each time you finish a research. What I mean by that is that peopel do not have to research Fighter Class Hulls and Frigate Class hulls in order to get Cruiser class hulls. They can get Cruiser class hulls right away and research it at once. Of course most people will also research one of the other hull classes since you do need smaller fast ships for alliance defence.

Second method:

The second method is to implemnt a hierachy such as the one we have for Ship research. In order to research cruiser class hulls you have to have frigate hull classes and in order to have frigate class hulls you have to have fighter class hulls.

I think there are merits for both systems but I would prefer the first method. The reason is that alliance that pursue a CR/BS strategy can implement it much quicker and it could make things interesting. It could lead to more wars, but it also has the potential to lead to more pre-round agreements. In either case CR/BS always come out much later in the round, having them right away could lead to more roid swapping in the early round of the game since no alliance will be able to cover all ship classes adequatly.

With respect to the other research path, their current hierachy would have to remain. I.E. if you want to research the whole travel tech tree you have to spend 1000RP on Jumpgate, 1500RP on Warpgate, 2000RP on Stargate and then 2500RP on Hypergate to get TT-4.

The covert op and waves tech tree can be change so its non-hierachy based but that would be hard to balance and make it fair. Or at the very least have the PA community agree on something.

I highly doubt that anything I stated above would occur since it would mean a major recoding of PA which is highly unlikely. But if it were to happen I think having it based on research cost per research could give some of the smaller alliances the capabilities to survive and do better than they are doing now. Not 100% sure since I only spent about 30mins on my above idea and I am sure I am probably missing a few things but thats what you guys are here for =).
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