User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Non Planetarion Discussions > General Discussions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 02:45   #1
Evergreen
the merciless
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,271
Evergreen is infamous around these partsEvergreen is infamous around these parts
Youthanasia

Blair calls for abortion rethink

Ok basically to surmise things, he wants to half the current time limit on getting an abortion (24 weeks to 12 weeks), but, if your baby has downs or severe disabilities etc etc the old limit is still ok.

So basically some woman who decides at week 13 she doesn't want to bring her perfectly health foetus to maturation can no longer get an abortion.

However, some woman who finds out at week 13 that her baby isn't 'normal' can terminate it, effectively youthanasia.

So why the **** is it still illegal to help assisted suicide of people who are very elderly and ill/disabled or people of other ages who have disabilities or medical problems that prevent them from living any kind of life really at all.

Jesus that's just ****ed up innit.
__________________
<Sunday8pm> Jas you are a fattie armed slut

<Jassy> aryn, how can u let ppl spread shit in this chan? ur not doing ur job properly if u let ppl spread shit
<Jassy> in real life sunday would be in court
<Jassy> i can get him glined
<Jassy> #feds are here to stamp out abuse

<mist|zZz> we don't do channel politics, /ignore is your friend
Evergreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 02:59   #2
Zar
Chief over all Monkeys
 
Zar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,771
Zar has a brilliant futureZar has a brilliant futureZar has a brilliant futureZar has a brilliant futureZar has a brilliant futureZar has a brilliant futureZar has a brilliant futureZar has a brilliant futureZar has a brilliant futureZar has a brilliant futureZar has a brilliant future
Re: Youthanasia

for the love of god - please let this not turn into a US style debate where the government starts mixing religion and politics..... oh and christian mothers rampaging through the streets..
Zar is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 03:10   #3
queball
Ball
 
queball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,410
queball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so little
Re: Youthanasia

"Euthanasia". And there are a couple of differences between it and abortion.
queball is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 03:10   #4
Evergreen
the merciless
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,271
Evergreen is infamous around these partsEvergreen is infamous around these parts
Re: Youthanasia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
for the love of god - please let this not turn into a US style debate where the government starts mixing religion and politics..... oh and christian mothers rampaging through the streets..
For a start, it's situated in the UK, secondly we are debating about why it's ok to kill a 13 week foetus that is going to live a very poor quality of life due to genetic defaults but it is not ok to kill a 13 week foetus that's perfectly healthy, where as in real life we can not assist in the suicide of people who live a very poor quality of life already due to disablement or genetic defaults.
__________________
<Sunday8pm> Jas you are a fattie armed slut

<Jassy> aryn, how can u let ppl spread shit in this chan? ur not doing ur job properly if u let ppl spread shit
<Jassy> in real life sunday would be in court
<Jassy> i can get him glined
<Jassy> #feds are here to stamp out abuse

<mist|zZz> we don't do channel politics, /ignore is your friend
Evergreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 03:11   #5
Nondescript Human
nondescript human
 
Nondescript Human's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,079
Nondescript Human has a brilliant futureNondescript Human has a brilliant futureNondescript Human has a brilliant futureNondescript Human has a brilliant futureNondescript Human has a brilliant futureNondescript Human has a brilliant futureNondescript Human has a brilliant futureNondescript Human has a brilliant futureNondescript Human has a brilliant futureNondescript Human has a brilliant futureNondescript Human has a brilliant future
Re: Youthanasia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evergreen
So why the **** is it still illegal to help assisted suicide of people who are very elderly and ill/disabled or people of other ages who have disabilities or medical problems that prevent them from living any kind of life really at all.
Because foetuses are only 'potential' human beings and are thus not deserving of rights equal to those enjoyed by the elderly (and other mentally sound adults. After all, rights should be attributed not simply according to which species one is a member of (or has the potential to become a member of) but according to one's mental capacities and ability to feel pain.

According to Singer, anyway.
And he's a lunatic.


Anyway, in most cases elderly people possess the mental capacity to decide whether or not they wish to live for themselves, which foetuses cannot do.
Nondescript Human is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 03:13   #6
Nodrog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Youthanasia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evergreen
For a start, it's situated in the UK, secondly we are debating about why it's ok to kill a 13 week foetus that is going to live a very poor quality of life due to genetic defaults but it is not ok to kill a 13 week foetus that's perfectly healthy, where as in real life we can not assist in the suicide of people who live a very poor quality of life already due to disablement or genetic defaults.
Are you honestly expecting rational arguements when discussing abortion/euthanasia?
Nodrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 03:14   #7
mist
Jolt's best friend
 
mist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,101
mist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to allmist is a name known to all
Re: Youthanasia

if foetuses are only potential human beings at 13 weeks, why isn't it ok to abort the healthy ones?

-mist
__________________
<Karmulian> subtle as a kick in the nuts as always
mist is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 03:18   #8
Nondescript Human
nondescript human
 
Nondescript Human's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,079
Nondescript Human has a brilliant futureNondescript Human has a brilliant futureNondescript Human has a brilliant futureNondescript Human has a brilliant futureNondescript Human has a brilliant futureNondescript Human has a brilliant futureNondescript Human has a brilliant futureNondescript Human has a brilliant futureNondescript Human has a brilliant futureNondescript Human has a brilliant futureNondescript Human has a brilliant future
Re: Youthanasia

Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
if foetuses are only potential human beings at 13 weeks, why isn't it ok to abort the healthy ones?

-mist
It is. As it is with babies up until a certain age. Hence the lunatic comment.
Nondescript Human is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 03:36   #9
Dace
so f*cking zen
 
Dace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hitting Bottom
Posts: 8,499
Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Youthanasia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evergreen
Ok basically to surmise things, he wants to half the current time limit on getting an abortion (24 weeks to 12 weeks)


A 24 week waiting list is ****ing appalling especially with something as time sensitive as this.

Good old Tony i say for trying to improve the health service.

I assume he's going to improve the times by injecting more money into the NHS yes?!
__________________
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
Dace is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 03:46   #10
Nodrog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Youthanasia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dace
A 24 week waiting list is ****ing appalling especially with something as time sensitive as this.

Good old Tony i say for trying to improve the health service.
If that were true then the state would still allow non-NHS abortions.

Anyway, if you would have no objections to restricting abortions to the first 24 weeks then I'm not sure why you'd object to limiting it to the first 12, other than as some kind of slippery slope thing.
Nodrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 03:48   #11
Dace
so f*cking zen
 
Dace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hitting Bottom
Posts: 8,499
Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Youthanasia

You're a murderer.
__________________
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
Dace is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 04:22   #12
the_dastardley_chihuahua
Damn Dog
 
the_dastardley_chihuahua's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,249
the_dastardley_chihuahua has much to be proud ofthe_dastardley_chihuahua has much to be proud ofthe_dastardley_chihuahua has much to be proud ofthe_dastardley_chihuahua has much to be proud ofthe_dastardley_chihuahua has much to be proud ofthe_dastardley_chihuahua has much to be proud ofthe_dastardley_chihuahua has much to be proud ofthe_dastardley_chihuahua has much to be proud ofthe_dastardley_chihuahua has much to be proud of
Re: Youthanasia

eh, im not expert (surprisingly) but with younger pregnant women/girls they might not even be aware they are pregnant at 12 weeks (what with periods not being regular and all that) so i dont think its a good idea to half the time period an abortion is allowed in.
__________________
"that's a stupid thing to say and you're a stupid person for saying it."
the tolling gang
the_dastardley_chihuahua is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 04:29   #13
Evergreen
the merciless
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,271
Evergreen is infamous around these partsEvergreen is infamous around these parts
Re: Youthanasia

tbh after you miss your second period you should go to a ****ing doctors.
__________________
<Sunday8pm> Jas you are a fattie armed slut

<Jassy> aryn, how can u let ppl spread shit in this chan? ur not doing ur job properly if u let ppl spread shit
<Jassy> in real life sunday would be in court
<Jassy> i can get him glined
<Jassy> #feds are here to stamp out abuse

<mist|zZz> we don't do channel politics, /ignore is your friend
Evergreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 04:33   #14
the_dastardley_chihuahua
Damn Dog
 
the_dastardley_chihuahua's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,249
the_dastardley_chihuahua has much to be proud ofthe_dastardley_chihuahua has much to be proud ofthe_dastardley_chihuahua has much to be proud ofthe_dastardley_chihuahua has much to be proud ofthe_dastardley_chihuahua has much to be proud ofthe_dastardley_chihuahua has much to be proud ofthe_dastardley_chihuahua has much to be proud ofthe_dastardley_chihuahua has much to be proud ofthe_dastardley_chihuahua has much to be proud of
Re: Youthanasia

yeah but not everyone is as clever as you.
__________________
"that's a stupid thing to say and you're a stupid person for saying it."
the tolling gang
the_dastardley_chihuahua is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 04:34   #15
Evergreen
the merciless
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,271
Evergreen is infamous around these partsEvergreen is infamous around these parts
Re: Youthanasia

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_dastardley_chihuahua
yeah but not everyone is as clever as you.
hence the support of 95th trimester abortions
__________________
<Sunday8pm> Jas you are a fattie armed slut

<Jassy> aryn, how can u let ppl spread shit in this chan? ur not doing ur job properly if u let ppl spread shit
<Jassy> in real life sunday would be in court
<Jassy> i can get him glined
<Jassy> #feds are here to stamp out abuse

<mist|zZz> we don't do channel politics, /ignore is your friend
Evergreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 09:30   #16
TheShadowMan
Choice of Whacker sir?
 
TheShadowMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Ireland
Posts: 679
TheShadowMan has much to be proud ofTheShadowMan has much to be proud ofTheShadowMan has much to be proud ofTheShadowMan has much to be proud ofTheShadowMan has much to be proud ofTheShadowMan has much to be proud ofTheShadowMan has much to be proud ofTheShadowMan has much to be proud ofTheShadowMan has much to be proud ofTheShadowMan has much to be proud of
Re: Youthanasia

if you deny someone the choice of anything you deny them the right to do anythin, must we always be controlled by the higher powers.
__________________
* thanos sets mode: -brain The_Shadow_Man
TheShadowMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 09:36   #17
Dante Hicks
Clerk
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Youthanasia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
If that were true then the state would still allow non-NHS abortions.
Define "non-NHS" abortions. I know you have to deal with a Doctor, but I thought you could do things privately, e.g. :

http://www.mariestopes.co.uk/bookings-abortion.cfm
Quote:
(Remember that this is a service for women who wish to pay privately for consultation and treatment. If you would rather use the National Health Service, then you should contact your GP or family planning clinic.)
Dante Hicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 09:45   #18
Nodrog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Youthanasia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Define "non-NHS" abortions. I know you have to deal with a Doctor, but I thought you could do things privately, e.g. :
I'm assuming that the original article is talking about banning privately performed abortions after the intial 12 weeks also.
Nodrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 09:48   #19
Dante Hicks
Clerk
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Youthanasia

Oh right sorry, I misunderstood what you were talking about.
Dante Hicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 09:52   #20
Nodrog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Youthanasia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Anyway, if you would have no objections to restricting abortions to the first 24 weeks then I'm not sure why you'd object to limiting it to the first 12, other than as some kind of slippery slope thing?
I'd seriously like to hear an answer to this. I completely oppose drawing the line anywhere, but if you want to draw it somewhere, I'm not sure why it matters whether it's 12 weeks or 24.
Nodrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 10:07   #21
Dante Hicks
Clerk
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Youthanasia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
I'd seriously like to hear an answer to this. I completely oppose drawing the line anywhere, but if you want to draw it somewhere, I'm not sure why it matters whether it's 12 weeks or 24.
Surely the argument goes something like this :

Rights stem from cognition / capacity for suffering / something else random
This level of cognition / etc reaches a critical point sometime during gestation
This point is x weeks in therefore we stop abortions after this point.

(I don't necessarily agree, but that seems to be the argument.)
Dante Hicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 10:50   #22
roadrunner_0
cynic
 
roadrunner_0's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Bishop Auckland Co. Durham
Posts: 8,809
roadrunner_0 has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.roadrunner_0 has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.roadrunner_0 has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.roadrunner_0 has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.roadrunner_0 has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.roadrunner_0 has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.roadrunner_0 has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.roadrunner_0 has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.roadrunner_0 has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.roadrunner_0 has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.roadrunner_0 has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Youthanasia

i think that this is absolutely awful
the current limit should not be tampered with
__________________
lazy
roadrunner_0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 11:51   #23
IncubusGod
WANNASEEMYNEWCHAINSAW
 
IncubusGod's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Éire
Posts: 2,738
IncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Youthanasia

I think abortions are wrong. I don't think you should be allowed to **** about with the lives of babies. Even if they are only potential babies, then they still have the capacity to grow, mature and become people. What right does anyone have to deny someone the oppertunity to live? Once a fetus is concieved then it should automatically get the right to life.

No-one should be allowed to kill it for the sake of their convenience.


Euthanasia is quite quite different. This is a process where someone wishes to commit suicide but cannot and needs someone else to help.
It's a different situation, a different debate.
__________________
I came, I saw, I shouldn't mix pleasure with carpentry.
IncubusGod is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 11:55   #24
Dante Hicks
Clerk
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Youthanasia

Quote:
Originally Posted by IncubusGod
Even if they are only potential babies, then they still have the capacity to grow, mature and become people.
What's so special about conception? A fertilised egg can't become a baby by itself, so why not go back a bit and apply the same logic to sperm or whatever?
Dante Hicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 12:02   #25
roadrunner_0
cynic
 
roadrunner_0's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Bishop Auckland Co. Durham
Posts: 8,809
roadrunner_0 has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.roadrunner_0 has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.roadrunner_0 has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.roadrunner_0 has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.roadrunner_0 has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.roadrunner_0 has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.roadrunner_0 has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.roadrunner_0 has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.roadrunner_0 has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.roadrunner_0 has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.roadrunner_0 has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Youthanasia

what if the woman is emotionally/mentally incapable of looking after the child? its all well and good to say that she should have have the baby and then give it up for adoption, but this can and does bring on emotional pain in some women
it comes down to choice, and denying the possibly already productive member of society, or damaging the possibly already damaged member of society even more, is what is wrong the way i see it
__________________
lazy
roadrunner_0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 12:03   #26
Nodrog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Youthanasia

Quote:
Originally Posted by IncubusGod
I think abortions are wrong. I don't think you should be allowed to **** about with the lives of babies. Even if they are only potential babies, then they still have the capacity to grow, mature and become people. What right does anyone have to deny someone the oppertunity to live? Once a fetus is concieved then it should automatically get the right to life..
But it has the right to live. If it survives after being removed from the mother, it would be murder to kill it.
Nodrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 12:12   #27
IncubusGod
WANNASEEMYNEWCHAINSAW
 
IncubusGod's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Éire
Posts: 2,738
IncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Youthanasia

If a person is on a feeding tube but would recover enough in 9 months to live without it and you remove the tube, you cant then say "if you survive without it and we kill you its murder, but if you die its not"

Shut up.

If a child is born handicapped and the mother isn't mature enough to look after it or its a hassle on her, we dont allow her to kill the child do we? The child still needs the mother to survive, if the mother didnt feed it and look after it, it'd die. So if she left it and it died it'd be murder, if she kills it before its born then its not?!

The problem with this is, that the state would take the child away if the mother couldnt look after it and raise it. But we do not have the technology to create an environment to grow an unwanted fetus. So the state could not take the child instead of killing it.

Your arguments about the child needing to mother to grow are flawed. Ofc the mother should be allowed to give up the fetus if there was an option to allow it to develop somewhere else, however since this option is not available, should we allow her to kill the baby instead?

I mean, if there were no places to look after a child but the mother didnt want to raise it, we wouldnt let her kill it.
__________________
I came, I saw, I shouldn't mix pleasure with carpentry.
IncubusGod is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 12:16   #28
acropolis
Vermin Supreme
 
acropolis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 3,280
acropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better placeacropolis single handedly makes these forums a better place
Re: Youthanasia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dace
A 24 week waiting list is ****ing appalling especially with something as time sensitive as this.
it's not a 'waiting list' though it would be hi-larious if it was.

"I'd like an abortion"
"Well, we can't fit you in for another 6 months"
"He'll be 4 months old by then!"
"Then why can't you just shake the little guy yourself you lazy bitch"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Anyway, if you would have no objections to restricting abortions to the first 24 weeks then I'm not sure why you'd object to limiting it to the first 12, other than as some kind of slippery slope thing.
if you assume that a woman should be able to terminate her pregnancy at any time, than you can still put the 24 week limit and any woman who wanted to terminate after that could just have it delivered then (babies can survive on their own after 24ish weeks, hence that limit)
acropolis is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 12:22   #29
Nodrog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Nodrog has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Youthanasia

Quote:
Originally Posted by IncubusGod
If a person is on a feeding tube but would recover enough in 9 months to live without it and you remove the tube, you cant then say "if you survive without it and we kill you its murder, but if you die its not"
If this feeding tube is attached to my arm and necessitates me carrying it around wherever I go, then yes, I certainly can. The fetus (assuming it can even be spoken of as an independent being rather than as part of the mother) is a parasite - it sustains it's existence solely from feeding off its host. If the mother chooses not to allow this, a murder has not been committed - a person has no duty to directly sustain the life of others at their own expense if they are deriving no benefits from doing so.

Quote:
If a child is born handicapped and the mother isn't mature enough to look after it or its a hassle on her, we dont allow her to kill the child do we? The child still needs the mother to survive, if the mother didnt feed it and look after it, it'd die. So if she left it and it died it'd be murder, if she kills it before its born then its not?!
She can't kill it after it is born, but I don't think she has any obligation to look after it. Adoption would be one of her options.

Quote:
I mean, if there were no places to look after a handicapped child but the mother didnt want to raise it, we wouldnt let her kill it.
Provided there were NO other options, which is a ridiculously hypothetical situation, I think you could argue that she should be allowed to leave it somewhere. However this situation is different from the abortion one, since you could also claim that carrying a pregnancy to full term involves the acceptance of the responsibility for caring for the child - an 'implicit contract' if you will, although I dislike that term. I would personally subscribe to the latter view.
Nodrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 12:25   #30
IncubusGod
WANNASEEMYNEWCHAINSAW
 
IncubusGod's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Éire
Posts: 2,738
IncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Youthanasia

Nod, shut up.

I ask this cause I'm going to shut up. Mainly as we all know this argument is just that. An argument, I'm not going to change your mind. Your not going to change mine. We'll just both keep going back and forth and get more and more pissed off.

To save myself the hassle on a Friday in work, I'm just going to think about kittens and puppies. I suggest you do the same.
__________________
I came, I saw, I shouldn't mix pleasure with carpentry.
IncubusGod is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 12:35   #31
Phang
Aardvark is a funny word
 
Phang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,923
Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Youthanasia

ICY, i hope you've never masturbated
__________________
Efficiency, efficiency they say
Get to know the date and tell the time of day
As the crowds begin complaining
How the Beaujolais is raining
Down on darkened meetings on the Champs Élysées
Phang is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 12:45   #32
IncubusGod
WANNASEEMYNEWCHAINSAW
 
IncubusGod's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Éire
Posts: 2,738
IncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Youthanasia

Oh noes, all those little babies.

Stop trying to bait me Phang, trolling doesn't suit you.
__________________
I came, I saw, I shouldn't mix pleasure with carpentry.
IncubusGod is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 12:46   #33
Zar
Chief over all Monkeys
 
Zar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,771
Zar has a brilliant futureZar has a brilliant futureZar has a brilliant futureZar has a brilliant futureZar has a brilliant futureZar has a brilliant futureZar has a brilliant futureZar has a brilliant futureZar has a brilliant futureZar has a brilliant futureZar has a brilliant future
Re: Youthanasia

cant we just brand the foetus as a terrorist as it will take the freedom away from the unwilling mother and father, therefore execute it.... because we all know terrorists hate freedom and all terrorists should die?

hahaha
Zar is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 12:50   #34
Phang
Aardvark is a funny word
 
Phang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,923
Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Youthanasia

Quote:
Originally Posted by IncubusGod
Oh noes, all those little babies.

Stop trying to bait me Phang, trolling doesn't suit you.
I'm not trying to troll. I genuinely don't see the difference between spilling your seed, or for that matter using 'natural family planning', and aborting a foetus that would die outside the womb. It's only degrees of seperation. Who are you to decide where the line should be drawn, while going firebrand in condemning anyone who would draw it somewhere else?
__________________
Efficiency, efficiency they say
Get to know the date and tell the time of day
As the crowds begin complaining
How the Beaujolais is raining
Down on darkened meetings on the Champs Élysées
Phang is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 12:53   #35
IncubusGod
WANNASEEMYNEWCHAINSAW
 
IncubusGod's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Éire
Posts: 2,738
IncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Youthanasia

Well sperm cannot form into a human themselves.

An egg cannot form into a human itself.

They need to combine to do so, its that combination I am refering to. Sperm inside or outside my body would never develop into a human so your point is invaild.
__________________
I came, I saw, I shouldn't mix pleasure with carpentry.
IncubusGod is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 12:54   #36
Phang
Aardvark is a funny word
 
Phang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,923
Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Youthanasia

Quote:
Originally Posted by IncubusGod
Well sperm cannot form into a human themselves.

An egg cannot form into a human itself.

They need to combine to do so, its that combination I am refering to. Sperm inside or outside my body would never develop into a human so your point is invaild.
yes, and a pre-24th week foetus would never turn into a baby by itself.
__________________
Efficiency, efficiency they say
Get to know the date and tell the time of day
As the crowds begin complaining
How the Beaujolais is raining
Down on darkened meetings on the Champs Élysées
Phang is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 12:58   #37
Dante Hicks
Clerk
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Youthanasia

Quote:
Originally Posted by IncubusGod
I ask this cause I'm going to shut up. Mainly as we all know this argument is just that. An argument, I'm not going to change your mind. Your not going to change mine. We'll just both keep going back and forth and get more and more pissed off.
Nothing wrong with a good argument. Besides, while the participants may not change their mind directly, other people reading your points might.
Dante Hicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 12:58   #38
IncubusGod
WANNASEEMYNEWCHAINSAW
 
IncubusGod's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Éire
Posts: 2,738
IncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Youthanasia

Well it would require nourishment to turn into a baby, but the ability to turn into a baby is there. No matter how much fried chicken you'd throw at a sperm, it still would never turn into a kid.
__________________
I came, I saw, I shouldn't mix pleasure with carpentry.
IncubusGod is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 13:03   #39
Phang
Aardvark is a funny word
 
Phang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,923
Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Phang has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Youthanasia

Quote:
Originally Posted by IncubusGod
Well it would require nourishment to turn into a baby, but the ability to turn into a baby is there. No matter how much fried chicken you'd throw at a sperm, it still would never turn into a kid.
it still cannot turn into a baby without outside help, its still just degrees of separation.

would you agree that at the age when a baby has a chance of surviving outside the womb the mother should have the right to demand a cesarian?
Phang is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 13:05   #40
Zar
Chief over all Monkeys
 
Zar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,771
Zar has a brilliant futureZar has a brilliant futureZar has a brilliant futureZar has a brilliant futureZar has a brilliant futureZar has a brilliant futureZar has a brilliant futureZar has a brilliant futureZar has a brilliant futureZar has a brilliant futureZar has a brilliant future
Re: Youthanasia

Quote:
Originally Posted by IncubusGod
Well it would require nourishment to turn into a baby, but the ability to turn into a baby is there. No matter how much fried chicken you'd throw at a sperm, it still would never turn into a kid.
what happens if abortion becomes illegal (and any form of coat hanging the child is also illegal) and assume that backstreet cloak hanging is completelu outlawed (doesnt happen due to police crawling around)

what are the rights of the mother? assume the mother is friends with someone in the chemistry department who just happens to have some chemicals that can either starve/kill of the foetus, or at least damage it beyond repair that either a forced/induced miscarriage is required or else the mother dies.

does the law step in and say that the mother has a legal obligation to nurture her child and make sure it is born healthy? What happens if the mother decides to eat very little and hence an undernourished baby is born, or what happens if the mother decides to smoke and do other things related to damaging unborn foetus. What if there is a natural miscarriage? Is the mother legally responsible

Incubus - you not only have to consider whether abortion is wrong, but if it is outlawed and made illegal what other ways will mothers take in which to abort their children (because face it - its going to happen - abortion always has happened, before drugs were available).

Perhaps its more prudent (in a devilish sort of way) to accept that abortion is a more "humane" way of killing unborns. I'd rather my girlfriend if she got pregant wanted to abort, get it done where the foetus has minimal suffering, compared to if she really didnt want the baby, going behind a back alley and getting herself coat hanged, putting herself at risk, and killing the foetus in the most inhumane way.
Zar is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 13:07   #41
queball
Ball
 
queball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,410
queball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so little
Re: Youthanasia

Quote:
Originally Posted by IncubusGod
Well it would require nourishment to turn into a baby, but the ability to turn into a baby is there. No matter how much fried chicken you'd throw at a sperm, it still would never turn into a kid.
How about an in vitro zygote? Does the nearest woman have a duty to put it in her womb?
queball is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 13:12   #42
vampire_lestat
Mathamagician
 
vampire_lestat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: At the very edge of existance
Posts: 1,803
vampire_lestat is a pillar of this Internet societyvampire_lestat is a pillar of this Internet societyvampire_lestat is a pillar of this Internet societyvampire_lestat is a pillar of this Internet societyvampire_lestat is a pillar of this Internet societyvampire_lestat is a pillar of this Internet societyvampire_lestat is a pillar of this Internet societyvampire_lestat is a pillar of this Internet societyvampire_lestat is a pillar of this Internet societyvampire_lestat is a pillar of this Internet societyvampire_lestat is a pillar of this Internet society
Re: Youthanasia

ICY, are you opposed to condoms etc as well? It's still preventing a life from forming isn't it?
__________________
I think I just had an evilgasm
vampire_lestat is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 13:46   #43
IncubusGod
WANNASEEMYNEWCHAINSAW
 
IncubusGod's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Éire
Posts: 2,738
IncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Youthanasia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
*snip*
Incubus - you not only have to consider whether abortion is wrong, but if it is outlawed and made illegal what other ways will mothers take in which to abort their children (because face it - its going to happen - abortion always has happened, before drugs were available).

Perhaps its more prudent (in a devilish sort of way) to accept that abortion is a more "humane" way of killing unborns. I'd rather my girlfriend if she got pregant wanted to abort, get it done where the foetus has minimal suffering, compared to if she really didnt want the baby, going behind a back alley and getting herself coat hanged, putting herself at risk, and killing the foetus in the most inhumane way.
So your saying that people will always kill their unborn kids so instead of applying laws to prevent this we should facilitate it to make the dead childs suffer a little less? You think a coat hanger has less of a destructive and painful impact than a suction rod and calipers to crush the babies head?

Applying your logic we should go and make murder legal, people will always kill other people no matter what laws we pass. We should make is legal and let them take their victim to a government appointed place so the victim can be killed 'humanely'.


And no I'm not opposed to the use of condoms, Im not opposed to the use of birth control. What Im opposed to is how people deal with unborn children.

Please don't try to label me as some sort of religious zelot. I'm not. I have my opinons and beliefs just like you lot and am just as entitled to them as you are.


With regards to the in vetro case. Again this isn't what I'm talking about. I'm only talking about a woman concieving a child, then deciding that she doesnt want it and the circumstances that brings up.

You lot seem to think I must automatically hold the same views as religious institiutions just because I share a similar view on this matter. I don't.
__________________
I came, I saw, I shouldn't mix pleasure with carpentry.
IncubusGod is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 13:53   #44
queball
Ball
 
queball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,410
queball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so little
Re: Youthanasia

Quote:
Originally Posted by IncubusGod
With regards to the in vetro case. Again this isn't what I'm talking about. I'm only talking about a woman concieving a child, then deciding that she doesnt want it and the circumstances that brings up.
Sure, it's not what you're talking about, it's just a constistency thing. If a zygote is a life in the same way as a baby, then there's some duty to care for it. When you say it's about women conceiving then deciding not to have a child, you could say it's about responsibility for having sex, so it's only wrong to kill a life if that life was made in a way that carries responsibility, or something.
queball is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 13:56   #45
Dante Hicks
Clerk
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Youthanasia

Quote:
Originally Posted by IncubusGod
I have my opinons and beliefs just like you lot and am just as entitled to them as you are.
When has anyone doubted this? If you give viewpoints "against the norm" (and here, the norm will be pro-choice) then people will jump up and down on you. It's inevitable. It's happened to most people here, just think of it as a test of character. No harm meant.
Quote:
With regards to the in vetro case. Again this isn't what I'm talking about. I'm only talking about a woman concieving a child, then deciding that she doesnt want it and the circumstances that brings up.
We realise what you are talking about, but a common test of people's opinions is to see if they apply in unusual cases. What exactly is the difference between (in moral terms) of the in vitro fertilised egg and one fertilised inside the woman?
Quote:
You lot seem to think I must automatically hold the same views as religious institiutions just because I share a similar view on this matter. I don't.
Not really, it's just whether your views are consistent.
Dante Hicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 14:04   #46
queball
Ball
 
queball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,410
queball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so little
Re: Youthanasia

Quote:
Originally Posted by IncubusGod
Applying your logic we should go and make murder legal, people will always kill other people no matter what laws we pass. We should make is legal and let them take their victim to a government appointed place so the victim can be killed 'humanely'.
Killing is legal is various circumstances. Murder can't be legal obviously. You can kill in self-defence as long as you're just acting to defend yourself. "International law" concerning war, and things like the Geneva Convention are other ways that killing is made humane.
queball is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 14:22   #47
Dace
so f*cking zen
 
Dace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hitting Bottom
Posts: 8,499
Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dace has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Youthanasia

Quote:
Originally Posted by acropolis
it's not a 'waiting list' though it would be hi-larious if it was.

"I'd like an abortion"
"Well, we can't fit you in for another 6 months"
"He'll be 4 months old by then!"
"Then why can't you just shake the little guy yourself you lazy bitch"



That was my funny.

The funny nod tried to kill.

THE MURDERING BASTARD!
__________________
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
Dace is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 14:28   #48
IncubusGod
WANNASEEMYNEWCHAINSAW
 
IncubusGod's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Éire
Posts: 2,738
IncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldIncubusGod spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Youthanasia

Quote:
Originally Posted by queball
Killing is legal is various circumstances. Murder can't be legal obviously. You can kill in self-defence as long as you're just acting to defend yourself. "International law" concerning war, and things like the Geneva Convention are other ways that killing is made humane.
This has nothing to do with the arguement at hand though does it? I mean self defence, fair enough. That implied intent on the dead party to kill you first. You can hardly apply that to an unborn child.

As for the war arguement, unless you were cloning hitler or something....even then the argument would be streched. [edit] this is the bit where I'm kidding, I do have a sence of humour you know [/edit]

As for my views on other issues raised, as Dante has pointed out, you raise an opinon that is against the norm and you get jumped on. I dont particularly feel like having to write pages and pages of justifications for every belief and moral issue I hold. Even if I did, it wouldn't change anyones opinon.

I find myself a man who believes in the progress of science and the search for truth. I'm not one for religious retorict. Though I do hold moral opinons that I feel should not be overlooked for the sake of convenience and occassioanly for progress.

I don't pretend to hold the answers to alot of questions, I don't pretend to have finalised views on many of the issues raised here. I find myself following my heart and my mind. This often leads to conflicts and inconsistancies. Just like everyone else.

These poblems raise alot of moral questions and I personally have not resolved them in my own mind. Why would I be baited into an argument where people have their own held beliefs, with their own prepared arguments that could then show me up as an ill prepared know nothing?

My opinon on this matter has been made clear and I don't see any reason to keep on about it. And I'm not bitching about people attacking me, I know people will defend their positions. I'm not blaming anyone for that. I expect that here.
__________________
I came, I saw, I shouldn't mix pleasure with carpentry.

Last edited by IncubusGod; 16 Jul 2004 at 14:35.
IncubusGod is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 15:02   #49
queball
Ball
 
queball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,410
queball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so littlequeball contributes so much and asks for so little
Re: Youthanasia

It's legitimate to use self-defense even if someone's just going to paralyse you for a while or suck your blood.

You asked "What right does anyone have to deny someone the oppertunity to live?". I realise this was probably rhetorical and emotive but people here are fairly autistic.
queball is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Jul 2004, 15:10   #50
Dante Hicks
Clerk
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Youthanasia

Quote:
Originally Posted by queball
I realise this was probably rhetorical and emotive but people here are fairly autistic.
Dante Hicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:47.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018