Henman

[KoeN]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

Not really. Games that have all weapons fairly equal generally lose higher level strategic elements because there's no longer the issue of map control. It all comes down to 'how good you are at shooting people' really.

wrong. the weapons aren't even close to equal, even more so now the levels became bigger and less flat .(so the rifle has become pretty useless for example). the 'double-jump' doesn't really make things easier aswell...
secondly it's still all about map control (when you play properly that is). it doesn't matter how good your aiming is when your opponents are shieldtiming and using standard routes for optimum result - for example.
and things get even more interesting in TDM, where you have to stick together as a team, holding the best areas in the level.



ps: all other gamemodes other than DM, TDM and CTF are gh3y+.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by KoeN

wrong. the weapons aren't even close to equal, even more so now the levels became bigger and less flat . (so the rifle has become pretty useless for example)

I'd beg to differ. They're all good for different circumstances; this means that they're anything but unbalanced, because you'd see one weapon dominating disproportionately, which you don't. Yes, the rifle isn't very good, but it's the default starting weapon, so you wouldn't expect it to be. Furthermore, the grenades do 50 damage each from the rifle, so it's not like you're completely defenseless.

Originally Posted by KoeN

the 'double-jump' doesn't really make things easier aswell...

The double-jump is something that only 'new' players to the game do beyond that which is required for map negotiation. There's relatively little air control in UT2K4, and doing a double jump just means the opponent knows exactly where you're going to land.

Originally Posted by KoeN

ps: all other gamemodes other than DM, TDM and CTF are gh3y+.

This statement is utterly invalidated by the last word. Also by the fact that it's entirely wrong. (BR, ONS ++)

[KoeN]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Yes, the rifle isn't very good, but it's the default starting weapon, so you wouldn't expect it to be. Furthermore, the grenades do 50 damage each from the rifle, so it's not like you're completely defenseless.

i didn't mean that gun, i mean the sniper-rifle(s). they also reload much slower now btw.

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

The double-jump is something that only 'new' players to the game do beyond that which is required for map negotiation. There's relatively little air control in UT2K4, and doing a double jump just means the opponent knows exactly where you're going to land.

you need the double jump in practically every level to reach guns/shields/amplifiers or whatever. they adapted the levels to the new jump, which is a good thing i think.
and ofc you shouldn't jump in combat, not only because of the opponent knowing where you will land, it also doesn't do much good to your aiming.

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

This statement is utterly invalidated by the last word. Also by the fact that it's entirely wrong. (BR, ONS ++)

if you want to play with cars i suggest you to go play GTA. it has nothing to do with UT and it's as unbalanced as a game can be. to improve your 'skills' you should play DM.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by KoeN

i didn't mean that gun, i mean the sniper-rifle(s). they also reload much slower now btw.

How the hell can you say the LG or the SR are BAD guns? They're excellent at medium to long range, if you have any hitscan ability at all.

Originally Posted by KoeN

you need the double jump in practically every level to reach guns/shields/amplifiers or whatever. they adapted the levels to the new jump, which is a good thing i think.

The only change from UT2K3 is the lack of the boostjump. The jump of choice now is the dodgejump. I'd like to see you try to get around Antalus (for example) without using it. You also go much slower and more predictably if you don't do it all the time.

Originally Posted by KoeN

and ofc you shouldn't jump in combat, not only because of the opponent knowing where you will land, it also doesn't do much good to your aiming.

You SHOULD jump in combat, just not the single/double jump unless it's a feint against your opponent. You SHOULD be dodgejumping all the time, and if your aim is screwed by it, you need to practice more.

Originally Posted by KoeN

if you want to play with cars i suggest you to go play GTA. it has nothing to do with UT and it's as unbalanced as a game can be. to improve your 'skills' you should play DM.

1 on 1 DMing is the way to go if you want to improve your DMming, which is obviously a big part of all game modes. HOWEVER the game is played for fun, not to get better at the game. If I wanted to get better at the game, I'd spend hours practicing shock combos; I don't, I play games, for fun.

In addition, ONS is unbalanced? There are the odd unbalancing issues on the maps (the initial mantaharass on AS is much quicker and easier on red, for example, and other small things, such as being slightly nearer to one Super weapon, or different node visability (see: severance, torlan for those)) but the game itself isn't unbalanced.

Furthermore, you haven't commented at all on Bombing Run, perhaps you haven't played it properly?

[Deffeh]

The day games like Quake Starcraft and UT are mainstream tele viewing, is the day we've really lost our way.

[KoeN]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

How the hell can you say the LG or the SR are BAD guns? They're excellent at medium to long range, if you have any hitscan ability at all.

LG tells exactly where you are, and you have a very small chance to actually hit people in the first place anyway. (and when you do, they don't die instantly). it's not just a bad gun, it's a terrible gun.
the SR is good at medium range, when there's a combat with other people. the 2nd fire is a bit slow though, was better in the old UT.
i prefer the minigun or flak.

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

You SHOULD jump in combat, just not the single/double jump unless it's a feint against your opponent. You SHOULD be dodgejumping all the time, and if your aim is screwed by it, you need to practice more..

dodgejumping usually isn't necessary in a close/medium range combat. a few steps to the left or right are usually much more accurate.

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

In addition, ONS is unbalanced? There are the odd unbalancing issues on the maps (the initial mantaharass on AS is much quicker and easier on red, for example, and other small things, such as being slightly nearer to one Super weapon, or different node visability (see: severance, torlan for those)) but the game itself isn't unbalanced..

right....i think you can see for yourself you're contradicting yourself there.

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Furthermore, you haven't commented at all on Bombing Run, perhaps you haven't played it properly?

i played it 2 times with bots. and i hated it.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by KoeN

LG tells exactly where you are, and you have a very small chance to actually hit people in the first place anyway.

That just means your hitscan isn't good enough. I can hit with it 40-50% of the time or more, and I need to do a lot of improving. A 'very small chance to actually hit' with a hitscan weapon doesn't reflect badly on the weapon, it's entirely down to the player.

Originally Posted by KoeN

the SR is good at medium range, when there's a combat with other people. the 2nd fire is a bit slow though, was better in the old UT.

The secondary fire on the sniper rifle? The zoom? Seriously dude, you should NEVER use the zoom. Practice hitting people without it, it'll make you a better player.

Originally Posted by KoeN

i prefer the minigun or flak.

Flak shells aren't very good at anything beyond 10 virtual yards, because they're a combination of predictable and extremely precise damage. Something like a shock combo will do you much better.

Originally Posted by KoeN

dodgejumping usually isn't necessary in a close/medium range combat. a few steps to the left or right are usually much more accurate.

Accurate for what? If you mean 'easier for the other player to hit you', then yes. If you're not dodge/wall jumping, you're exceptionally easy to hit with any weapon.

Originally Posted by KoeN

right....i think you can see for yourself you're contradicting yourself there.

Just because some of the maps give you a couple of second advantage (assuming everything else is equal) doesn't mean that the game mode is unbalanced dude. By this reasoning, DM must be unbalanced, because you can't both spawn equidistant from all the weapons.

Originally Posted by KoeN

i played it 2 times with bots. and i hated it.

People who hate it (and this is from experience) generally haven't played it properly. Were you driving forward carrying the ball, using the bots for fire support?

Don't.

BR is all about mobility, and whilst the bots can't compete with humans for mobility, they're pretty reasonable at BR

[KoeN]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

That just means your hitscan isn't good enough. I can hit with it 40-50% of the time or more, and I need to do a lot of improving. A 'very small chance to actually hit' with a hitscan weapon doesn't reflect badly on the weapon, it's entirely down to the player.

can you please tell me what 'hitscan' is?

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

The secondary fire on the sniper rifle? The zoom? Seriously dude, you should NEVER use the zoom. Practice hitting people without it, it'll make you a better player..

Shock Rifle.
about the snipe-rifle: i've been playing more snipe levels than standard levels in old UT and i'm still pretty good with it, but that doesn't take away it's a crap gun in UT2k4.

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Flak shells aren't very good at anything beyond 10 virtual yards, because they're a combination of predictable and extremely precise damage. Something like a shock combo will do you much better.

the shock combo was/is good, but slow. you'll lose it when you're in a 1 on 1 battle, while it's hard to lose 1 on 1 when having the flak.

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Accurate for what? If you mean 'easier for the other player to hit you', then yes. If you're not dodge/wall jumping, you're exceptionally easy to hit with any weapon..

when dodge-jumping it's impossible to aim. it's a nice move, and necessary to master, but you're being pretty ineffective when you're using it all the time.

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Just because some of the maps give you a couple of second advantage (assuming everything else is equal) doesn't mean that the game mode is unbalanced dude. By this reasoning, DM must be unbalanced, because you can't both spawn equidistant from all the weapons.

it takes too much time to take over a power core or destroy the other teams base. any half-decent player should be able to kill anyone who tries it in seconds, even more so with the super-weapons on the vehicles.
and yes, all maps start with an advantage for one team. i've never seen a team lose when they got the advantage in the start.

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

People who hate it (and this is from experience) generally haven't played it properly. Were you driving forward carrying the ball, using the bots for fire support?

Don't.

BR is all about mobility, and whilst the bots can't compete with humans for mobility, they're pretty reasonable at BR

the bots go blindy for the ball, it's no challenge to kill them in that game. so i decided to go get a ball myself. was back in a minute. won.
ofc it should be more fun over internet, i just cba to try it yet, as the game sucks big time when playing it with bots.


anyway, if you feel like playing against me some time, join #ut on netgamers.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by KoeN

can you please tell me what 'hitscan' is?

Oh dear.

Hitscan weapons (Shock Primary, LG/SR, Minigun Primary) travel instantaneously to their targets, after taking lag into account. So if you have a ping of 0 and press fire when someone's in your sights, you will always hit. The only leading you need to do is to compensate for ping.

Originally Posted by KoeN

Shock Rifle.
about the snipe-rifle: i've been playing more snipe levels than standard levels in old UT and i'm still pretty good with it, but that doesn't take away it's a crap gun in UT2k4.

The shock rifle is possibly the most useful gun in UT2K4, especially in TDM.

The sniper rifle is a very good weapon.

Originally Posted by KoeN

the shock combo was/is good, but slow. you'll lose it when you're in a 1 on 1 battle, while it's hard to lose 1 on 1 when having the flak.

If you think the shock combo is useless in 1 on 1, I don't know what kind of 1 on 1 you're playing. If you can anticipate where they're going to be (either by hearing them move around the level/knowing their patterns, seeing them move for an item, or just by spamming secondary) then it's pretty much a guaranteed kill.

Originally Posted by KoeN

when dodge-jumping it's impossible to aim. it's a nice move, and necessary to master, but you're being pretty ineffective when you're using it all the time.

It isn't impossible to aim when dodgejumping. I (think) I have serverside demos proving this.

Originally Posted by KoeN

it takes too much time to take over a power core or destroy the other teams base. any half-decent player should be able to kill anyone who tries it in seconds, even more so with the super-weapons on the vehicles.

Re: The power cores. It's not about destroying it in one go, it's about causing as much damage as you can. If it didn't take a minute or so to destroy, the gametype would be ruined because one slip meant that you were even less likely to make a comeback.

Re: The vehicles... what if they don't have any vehicles? What if you're in a vehicle?

If you've not played Ons as a member of a proper team, you're not really appreciating the game style; it's all about strategy.

Originally Posted by KoeN

and yes, all maps start with an advantage for one team. i've never seen a team lose when they got the advantage in the start.

Don't try to make it sound like Ons is decided by the map, over the player skills; it's not. Most map advantages are of the order of 'it's ever so slightly quicker to go here' or 'there's a bit more visability'. The skill of the team (and its constituent players) is much more important than the map colour.

Originally Posted by KoeN

was back in a minute. won.

What difficulty?

Originally Posted by Koen

join #ut on netgamers

It'd be quicker for you to join #guts on irc.enterthegame.com , as I wouldn't have to tell you the information for our server (assuming you want to play on it; we'd both ping badly to it as its in the US, but it'd be fair)

[KoeN]

i'm there, waiting.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by KoeN

i'm there, waiting.

Koen can't play because he didn't buy the game, and someone is using the cd key they bought and KoeN was using.

gg koen.

[Evergreen]

heh gg koen indeed.

[KoeN]

i'll fix it monday.