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Unread 31 May 2010, 23:24   #1
G.K Zhukov
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Leaving teaching?

My contract is up this summer.

I've been working with kids aged 6-8 since november. I have been teaching maths, norwegian and english. I have not studied these subjects at university level, but that has not been any problem. However, my variant of PGCE (or how it's spelled), was focused on kids aged 13 to 19. It does give me the license to teach from 11 to 19, so I've been teaching outside that limit.

It's certainly been interesting and I had to learn a lot of new things.

Right now I am on strike. The teachers got offered 0.9% payrise and a pot of 1.3% for local rises. However, we have no control over the pot, so many teachers may see little from it. The last six years, the teachers have gotten 14% less than other public sectors employees. And in turn, the private sector have gotten more than the public.

Considering the situation in our schoolsystem and how rotten the employer is, I'm starting to consider leaving teaching.

But what shall I do then? What other jobs could be suitable?
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Unread 1 Jun 2010, 17:53   #2
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Re: Leaving teaching?

so, you'll stop being a teacher because you won't get enough payrise?


i don't understand. if it was any other job, i would. but i've never heard of anyone going into teaching because of the financial aspect.


also: i'd try to get into Statkraft. most awesome company in Norway.
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Unread 1 Jun 2010, 21:47   #3
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Re: Leaving teaching?

I think you should strike. Normally I am not a fan of strikes, but if the situation is as described you get banged from behind by the government.

You could consider private schools, a coaching career publicly and privately etc.

Good luck.
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Unread 2 Jun 2010, 09:09   #4
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Re: Leaving teaching?

Hey Zhukov,

My girlfriend is also a teacher (kindergarden though, age 3-6) and she has similar problems you seem to have. She likes her job alot, but the pay isn't all that great (well it is if you compare the salary-holiday ratio) and she has a hard time finding a fixed position (which is nearly impossible in Belgium).

I don't know if striking really solves anything. In our country they strike for the tiniest thing, which basically renders the concept of striking useless.

Koen, he's probably not into teaching because of the high salary. That doesn't mean he has to pay his bills aswell and we all know life ain't getting any any cheaper, so to attain the same living standards, your salary needs to go up aswell aye.

Rgds, Kj
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Unread 2 Jun 2010, 09:13   #5
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Re: Leaving teaching?

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Originally Posted by Membrivio View Post
I think you should strike. Normally I am not a fan of strikes, but if the situation is as described you get banged from behind by the government.

You could consider private schools, a coaching career publicly and privately etc.

Good luck.
I'm no fan at all of striking, infact it often has the opposite effect.

e.g. you strike because your company has to fire 100 employees to save money. Ok, so you strike and stop working for 1 week ... during that week, your company will have massive losses, hence even MORE financial problems. So how is that gonna stop them firing those 100 people if all you do is making sure they now have even less money?

I know it's abit simplistic but that's often what it gets down to. The ones that get fired will be the victims of the strike, because the company will pay them alot less as they were planning to, but now they no longer have that money.

E.g. the strikings in Greece are a joke. The country needs to do it or it'll go bankrupt ... so wtf are they striking for? They rather want to go bankrupt ???
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Unread 2 Jun 2010, 10:07   #6
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Re: Leaving teaching?

Yeah can't help you with the other jobs part...don't really know what you like to do. I just say find something you also really like besides teaching.
I feel for you though, i'm also a teacher (history, geography and music), and sometimes got the same feeling here in the Netherlands.

The holiday-payment agrument is false btw kjel. I have to make the same hours, sometimes even more, then all other people. So i still have 40 hour work week and all the hours missed in vacantion you fill up with all the other thousands tasks i have. Checking results of tests, being cop in school hall on the breakes, creating new lesson, meetings with my own section or other directory office, being Mentor of a class. Then i have like 3 taskforces i'm in and i organise a somekind of talentshow where all the kids can do singing and dancing ect.

I have full time job of 27 teaching hours (which is considered full time) BUT attached to those 27 hours there is a certain ammount of hours i HAVE to fullfill. WHich give me that i work the same amount of weeks/hours all other people do but in a shorter period of time. You get those hours in all those kind of examples i gave.
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Unread 2 Jun 2010, 10:22   #7
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Re: Leaving teaching?

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Originally Posted by Razock View Post
Yeah can't help you with the other jobs part...don't really know what you like to do. I just say find something you also really like besides teaching.
I feel for you though, i'm also a teacher (history, geography and music), and sometimes got the same feeling here in the Netherlands.

The holiday-payment agrument is false btw kjel. I have to make the same hours, sometimes even more, then all other people. So i still have 40 hour work week and all the hours missed in vacantion you fill up with all the other thousands tasks i have. Checking results of tests, being cop in school hall on the breakes, creating new lesson, meetings with my own section or other directory office, being Mentor of a class. Then i have like 3 taskforces i'm in and i organise a somekind of talentshow where all the kids can do singing and dancing ect.

I have full time job of 27 teaching hours (which is considered full time) BUT attached to those 27 hours there is a certain ammount of hours i HAVE to fullfill. WHich give me that i work the same amount of weeks/hours all other people do but in a shorter period of time. You get those hours in all those kind of examples i gave.
Ohh but you don't need to explain me that you do have alot of work, regardless the amount of holiday you have. My gf only has to teach 28 hours a day, but most evenings she has to spend 1-2 hours on preparations.

Maybe I phrased it poorly, as I do know howmuch work a teacher has. Then again, you cannot deny that those 2 months of holiday is something you look forward to and you'll enjoy very much.

Also, I work 40 hours a week but the extra hours I work don't get paid (they call that being flexible) and sometimes I do have to work during the evening when we having a Go Live or when something simply needs to be done.
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Unread 2 Jun 2010, 12:41   #8
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Re: Leaving teaching?

People don't become teachers for the pay.

In our school we voted against strike action with the unions, and didn't do it. The students come first and a 2-3 day strike would have a negative impact on their attainment.

If you're in it for the money, you're in the wrong job.
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Unread 2 Jun 2010, 12:45   #9
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Re: Leaving teaching?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat View Post
People don't become teachers for the pay.

In our school we voted against strike action with the unions, and didn't do it. The students come first and a 2-3 day strike would have a negative impact on their attainment.

If you're in it for the money, you're in the wrong job.
Correct, but you need to make a living aswell ofcourse.
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Unread 2 Jun 2010, 19:16   #10
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Re: Leaving teaching?

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People don't become teachers for the pay.


Surely, I'm not sure how different the situation is in your country but over here, except teachers with the highest teaching qualifications maybe, a teacher's salary isn't nearly enough to support a family and decent housing.
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Unread 2 Jun 2010, 20:26   #11
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Re: Leaving teaching?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat View Post
People don't become teachers for the pay.

In our school we voted against strike action with the unions, and didn't do it. The students come first and a 2-3 day strike would have a negative impact on their attainment.

If you're in it for the money, you're in the wrong job.
Are you a teacher? I cant belive they will even let you get close to children
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Unread 3 Jun 2010, 08:44   #12
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Re: Leaving teaching?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSmoke View Post
Surely, I'm not sure how different the situation is in your country but over here, except teachers with the highest teaching qualifications maybe, a teacher's salary isn't nearly enough to support a family and decent housing.
I'd argue that that's kind of subjective as "supporting a family" just means you have enough to food/clothe them so having a very low paid job would probably be enough - you'd just miss out on lots of luxuries.

"Decent" housing - what do you mean? I'll never be able to afford a mansion, no. I'll be able to afford an average house though with the 2.4 children etc.
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Unread 3 Jun 2010, 08:45   #13
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Re: Leaving teaching?

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Are you a teacher? I cant belive they will even let you get close to children
what the **** do you still play this game?


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Unread 3 Jun 2010, 09:16   #14
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Re: Leaving teaching?

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Surely, I'm not sure how different the situation is in your country but over here, except teachers with the highest teaching qualifications maybe, a teacher's salary isn't nearly enough to support a family and decent housing.
Over here (Belgium) their salary is decent. It's around the average wages in the country really.
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Unread 3 Jun 2010, 20:29   #15
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Re: Leaving teaching?

Nobody gets into teaching for the money.

But I have bills to pay. And I want to be able to buy a house/flat some day. It's frustrating to see that people who have no more than ordinary school and left at 19, can have a starting wage just beyond mine (after years and years of university studies. Not to mention that they usually also have a lot less responsibility. Doesn't exactly make me feel appreciated.
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Unread 4 Jun 2010, 10:09   #16
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Re: Leaving teaching?

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Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov View Post
Nobody gets into teaching for the money.

But I have bills to pay. And I want to be able to buy a house/flat some day. It's frustrating to see that people who have no more than ordinary school and left at 19, can have a starting wage just beyond mine (after years and years of university studies. Not to mention that they usually also have a lot less responsibility. Doesn't exactly make me feel appreciated.
Lol, since when do you need Uni studies to become a teacher??? And I don't know where you live, but over here, a teacher earns more then the average job.
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Unread 4 Jun 2010, 17:01   #17
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Re: Leaving teaching?

Well, also in The Netherlands you need to have a grade from polytechnic University (in Dutch: Hoger BeroepsOnderwijs (HBO) to be (officially) allowed to be a teacher.

Thus, that is not really strange, Kjeldoran.

I believe Zhukov lives in Norway. And exactly that what you said, namely that someone in Belgium (or The Netherlands for that matter) earns more than an average pay, is the reason why he strikes and why he contemplates about his future. I can understand him for the reason that I cannot believe that such a country with such a (horrendous) large social system funded by unbelievable high taxes allows teachers to be paid less than average.
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Unread 5 Jun 2010, 14:03   #18
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Re: Leaving teaching?

For teaching at "high school level" (where the kids are 16-19) you need to have studied at university.

As many of you know Norway is a functioning welfare state. We have loads of money in our oilfund, so the state finance is secure.

But for the last 6 years, the private sector have gotten better pay rises than the public sector. Teachers have also been getting the worst pay rises among public sector employees...
(same with nurses, they are paid shit. I don't see why anyone should study 3 years at a college to become a nurse after high school)

This year the teachers got offered less than inflation, even if we last years was promised a real rise.

Generally speaking the rising difference between pay in the public sector and the private sector has become so big, specially for those with higher eduction, that it's no longer any point to study to become a public sector employee. In fact, you would be better off just taking high school and getting a job in the industrial sector.
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Unread 5 Jun 2010, 15:28   #19
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Re: Leaving teaching?

To be entirely honest, after my what, 12-13 years in the government education system (Whatever the years before university kicks in is called), I can fully appreciate that teachers ought to be paid better because then perhaps more non-idiots would be attracted to teaching.

By non-idiots I mean charismatic people more so than geniuses really. What I mean to say is that I think a lot of people who are able to understand and connect with youngsters / students tend to go elsewhere because the pay is better. There's an extraordinary amount of interesting subjects that just become horrendous when the teacher is someone who just drones on and on without actually being the kind of person you'd want to listen to.

One of the best lecturers I've ever had here at the university is an engineer employed at SINTEF who teaches part time just because he loves mathematics and would love for you to love it too. Those people should be in teaching, but private sector is much better paid so they'll go there instead.
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Unread 5 Jun 2010, 17:11   #20
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Re: Leaving teaching?

I giggle a little every time people from certain types of countries go on a strike due to insufficient pay rises and chant how they deserve more.
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Unread 7 Jun 2010, 09:44   #21
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Re: Leaving teaching?

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Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov View Post
For teaching at "high school level" (where the kids are 16-19) you need to have studied at university.

As many of you know Norway is a functioning welfare state. We have loads of money in our oilfund, so the state finance is secure.

But for the last 6 years, the private sector have gotten better pay rises than the public sector. Teachers have also been getting the worst pay rises among public sector employees...
(same with nurses, they are paid shit. I don't see why anyone should study 3 years at a college to become a nurse after high school)

This year the teachers got offered less than inflation, even if we last years was promised a real rise.

Generally speaking the rising difference between pay in the public sector and the private sector has become so big, specially for those with higher eduction, that it's no longer any point to study to become a public sector employee. In fact, you would be better off just taking high school and getting a job in the industrial sector.
Belgium is the only country in Europe that has an authomatic index, based on the inflation. So every year, sometimes earlier, our Salary gets adjusted to the index (it's never much though). This exactly to prevent people suffering inflation.
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Unread 7 Jun 2010, 09:59   #22
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Re: Leaving teaching?

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Originally Posted by Kjeldoran View Post
Belgium is the only country in Europe that has an authomatic index, based on the inflation. So every year, sometimes earlier, our Salary gets adjusted to the index (it's never much though). This exactly to prevent people suffering inflation.
Well if its up to Europe, we won't have it much longer
And it does make us less competitive towards other countries
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Unread 7 Jun 2010, 10:14   #23
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Re: Leaving teaching?

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Well if its up to Europe, we won't have it much longer
And it does make us less competitive towards other countries
Yes, I didn't evaluate it aye, I just mentionned it. It has many advantages but also disadvantages and I know Europe doesn't want us to have it :-)
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Unread 11 Jun 2010, 14:06   #24
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Re: Leaving teaching?

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Originally Posted by Kjeldoran View Post
Lol, since when do you need Uni studies to become a teacher??? And I don't know where you live, but over here, a teacher earns more then the average job.
Don't know where you come from but that's about to http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8131075.stmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8131075.stm
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Unread 11 Jun 2010, 14:08   #25
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Re: Leaving teaching?

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Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov View Post
Nobody gets into teaching for the money.

But I have bills to pay. And I want to be able to buy a house/flat some day. It's frustrating to see that people who have no more than ordinary school and left at 19, can have a starting wage just beyond mine (after years and years of university studies. Not to mention that they usually also have a lot less responsibility. Doesn't exactly make me feel appreciated.
Then again, you got to go to university. I'd much rather spend 3/4 years in university than having a job.
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Unread 11 Jun 2010, 14:18   #26
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Re: Leaving teaching?

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Belgium.
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