Planetarion Forums

inf · 27 Nov 2002, 00:55

Act of 14. April 2000 No. 31 relating to the processing of personal data (Personal Data Act)

Quote:

Chapter II
Section 15 The processor's right of disposition over personal data

No processor may process personal data in any way other than that which is agreed in writing with the controller. Nor may the data be turned over to another person for storage or manipulation without such agreement.

It shall also be stated in the agreement with the controller that the processor undertakes to carry out such security measures as ensue from section 13.

This invalidates the sale of the Planetarion Forums.

Personal details include things such as Name and Email. Planetarion would have to seek written agreement from every user on these forums, or remove them before sale could take place.

This hence, makes the entire sale of planetarion invalid in its current form, unless the sale of the forums is removed or the above conditions are satisified.

Nodrog · 27 Nov 2002, 00:57

Neither the controller or the processor is the user.

Im not sure how norwegian law works with the data controller giving out info without the users permission though.

acropolis · 27 Nov 2002, 01:01

Quote:

Originally posted by inf
Act of 14. April 2000 No. 31 relating to the processing of personal data (Personal Data Act)

This invalidates the sale of the Planetarion Forums.

Personal details include things such as Name and Email. Planetarion would have to seek written agreement from every user on these forums, or remove them before sale could take place.

This hence, makes the entire sale of planetarion invalid in its current form, unless the sale of the forums is removed or the above conditions are satisified.

At worst, they would delete all accounts whose owners don't click a certain box or somesuch. Which is probably what they plan on doing anyway, at best.

Gayle29uk · 27 Nov 2002, 01:05

A more pertinent question might be that of copyright. I can find no clause anywhere saying all posts become the property of FSAS and as such anything I post still legally (afaik) belongs to me and cannot be sold by a third party.

Not that I'd kick up a fuss or anything but it's still a problem.

inf · 27 Nov 2002, 01:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Nodrog
Neither the controller or the processor is the user.

Im not sure how norwegian law works with the data controller giving out info without the users permission though.

I'm pretty sure, Planetarion cannot sell the forums with personal information included.

Quote:

Section 11 Basic requirements for the processing of personal data

The controller shall ensure that personal data which are processed
a) are processed only when this is authorized pursuant to sections 8 and 9,
b) are used only for explicitly stated purposes that are objectively justified by the activities of the controller,
c) are not used subsequently for purposes that are incompatible with the original purpose of the collection, without the consent of the data subject,
d) are adequate, relevant and not excessive in relation to the purpose of the processing, and
e) are accurate and up-to-date, and are not stored longer than is necessary for the purpose of the processing, cf. sections 27 and 28.

This also illustrates this point

inf · 27 Nov 2002, 01:08

Quote:

Originally posted by acropolis
At worst, they would delete all accounts whose owners don't click a certain box or somesuch. Which is probably what they plan on doing anyway, at best.

They would then have to delete any refrences to this persons personal data, probably manually from specific posts.

W · 27 Nov 2002, 01:10

The question is, when they sell it, will anyone care? You don't think an internet-wannabe-lawyer will travel* to Norway and file a suit against Fifth Season? They can safely ignore you.

*)Everyone who lives in Norway will know that such a suit will fail misserably anyway, or at most will result in the removal of the personal information of the suer. You won't even get your legal fees covered.

Belgarath The Sorcerer · 27 Nov 2002, 01:11

afaik inf is quoting english law, which cannot be applied to a server hosted in a different country.

probably, i don't know i'm not a lawyer.

it's a moot point anyway, have you read the t&s's of the user agreement you ticked you agreed to when signing up to use the planetarion forums?

hmm?

inf · 27 Nov 2002, 01:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Belgarath The Sorcerer
afaik inf is quoting english law, which cannot be applied to a server hosted in a different country.

probably, i don't know i'm not a lawyer.

it's a moot point anyway, have you read the t&s's of the user agreement you ticked you agreed to when signing up to use the planetarion forums?

hmm?

it's norwegian law, and there is no EULA that says pa can sell my personal data.

xtothez · 27 Nov 2002, 01:32

Quote:

Originally posted by inf

it's norwegian law, and there is no EULA that says pa can sell my personal data.

We could just delete you now...

Raging.Retard · 27 Nov 2002, 01:39

There are many snippets of code posted on the P&IT forums which are clearly the property of their respective authors. 5S do not have the right to go around selling other peoples work now.

xtothez · 27 Nov 2002, 01:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Raging.Retard
There are many snippets of code posted on the P&IT forums which are clearly the property of their respective authors. 5S do not have the right to go around selling other peoples work now.

They dont own the code, they just own the medium they are posted on.

If a company is bought out by another company, should they immediately tell employees to delete their email accounts because the new bosses don't 'own their data'?

Raging.Retard · 27 Nov 2002, 01:47

They are not selling the medium though. The purchaser would need to provide new machines, thus its the data thats being moved.

A2 · 27 Nov 2002, 03:08

Read the announcement closer

(for those of you who can't be bothered here is the relevant bit)

Quote:

The sale will include:

All code developed and pertaining to the Planetarion game.
Alliance hosting (conditional)
The www.planetarion.com domain & name.
The Planetarion Forums.
The Planetarion Portal (conditional)

Does it say anything about user data?
I think not...

xtrasyn · 27 Nov 2002, 07:12

Anyone in their right mind would start over.

Mong · 27 Nov 2002, 11:26

I'm not a "would-be-internet-lawyer", but I do know plenty about the various Data Protection laws of europe. Norway is not in the EC, but it is subject to "European Economic Area" laws - upon which the UK DP Act is based upon.

It's my "very well educated guess" that FS can't sell on these forums, without our permission. Neither can they sell on personal details for PA The Game without our permission. For two reasons:

1 - Legally you can only store/use data for the reason "for which it was obtained". As nobody envisaged their data being sold to an external entity, then I'm afraid this is a valid reason why FS must now obtain our permission (Zeus, you can do what you like with my info, feel free!)

2 - As stated below, the T&C of these forums is worded in such a way that it does imply prohibition of such a sale. "No processor may process personal data in any way other than that which is agreed in writing with the controller. Nor may the data be turned over to another person for storage or manipulation without such agreement." - which pretty much matches the legal stipulations in #1.

Sorry FS, but these pesky kids do have a valid point

I suggest some kind of system to allow ppl to opt-in to this sale. Of course, if they don't, their accounts get deleted anyway

Of course another option for FS is to sell the Forums and Game to "whoever", but empty it first - forcing people to re-register. Which would be a shame though, as there's a lot of history on these forums.

M.

Starbucks · 27 Nov 2002, 11:34

BTW, the forum is not in a state to be transferred, it is so buggy in areas it screws up because there are too many holes (as mentioned by karmulian earlier)

Also buying the forums with the users is feasable, as there are ways around it. Lets talk theoretically now

Insurance Company Shai-Gar and Co. Has a database of members of its insurance policys.

It gets taken over by selling of shares, whatever to JammyJim and Co. Insurance. Now that would mean that all profits held by Shai-Gar and Co will become property of JammyJim and Co.

By FS Selling on Planetarion, They would have to set up a "fake" sub-company called, i dunno, FS-Planetarion that the company who buys it will take over, therefore aquiring all the data

I Know the laws, but i know the ways around them ;-)

27 Nov 2002, 11:37

Right

1) i will bring this up with zeus ASAP

2) The optional fields are just that - optional, if you posted your location etc its ur problem to remove them.

3) the data does NOT contain ur name, - only your email.

And until we recieve a list of people that don't want these passed on - we will leave them..

anyone who doesn't want it passed on - we shall simply delete you account.

Mong · 27 Nov 2002, 11:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Karmulian
anyone who doesn't want it passed on - we shall simply delete you account.

I suggest some kind of system that enables people to enter their username and password in order to authorise sale of their various details.

It would be very simple actually (I can even do it!)

if username & password match
{
add a "I approve" flag to the user table in the DB
}

Then when the sale is complete run:

if approve = no
{
delete account
}

Quite straightforward actually.

M.

27 Nov 2002, 11:44

I can do it even easier than that

adds optional field into profile.. makes it mandatory

Starbucks · 27 Nov 2002, 11:46

The Thing is

Will the forums even be in a transportable state?

You were saying earlier about a lot of DB Problems, will the data be able to be extracted?

MrL_JaKiri · 27 Nov 2002, 11:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Starbucks
The Thing is

a good film.

Add · 27 Nov 2002, 13:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Belgarath The Sorcerer
afaik inf is quoting english law, which cannot be applied to a server hosted in a different country.

probably, i don't know i'm not a lawyer.

it's a moot point anyway, have you read the t&s's of the user agreement you ticked you agreed to when signing up to use the planetarion forums?

hmm?

the UK DPA applies to all EUcountries and a few non EU countries (inc. Norway).

How does Jelsoft feel about their software (which is only rented btw) being sold on?

(http://www.vbulletin.com/order/)

Ragnarak · 27 Nov 2002, 13:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Add

the UK DPA applies to all EUcountries and a few non EU countries (inc. Norway).

How does Jelsoft feel about their software (which is only rented btw) being sold on?

(http://www.vbulletin.com/order/)

anyone any idea how long the license for this board runs to?

Starbucks · 27 Nov 2002, 13:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Ragnarak

anyone any idea how long the license for this board runs to?

Forever

and im assuming they are selling the VBB Licence

the thing is you wouldnt want it as this is only 2.2.2, and i bet they ran out of updates

27 Nov 2002, 13:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Add

the UK DPA applies to all EUcountries and a few non EU countries (inc. Norway).

How does Jelsoft feel about their software (which is only rented btw) being sold on?

(http://www.vbulletin.com/order/)

WRONG

FSAS - have an owned license for the Jelsoft product, meaning they can do what they like with it..

with an owned license you only pay $30 a year for unlimited updates.

and yes they will be upgraded.. whether the admisn run the forum.. or the new owner runs them

Starbucks · 27 Nov 2002, 13:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Karmulian

WRONG

FSAS - have an owned license for the Jelsoft product, meaning they can do what they like with it..

with an owned license you only pay $30 a year for unlimited updates.

and yes they will be upgraded.. whether the admisn run the forum.. or the new owner runs them

VB3 Beta 1

or 2.2.9

27 Nov 2002, 14:10

unknown.. i would like vb3 beta

but its upto the new owners

queball · 27 Nov 2002, 14:16

You sound like you think anyone is actually gonna buy Planetarion.

27 Nov 2002, 14:28

well i may sound like thats

but its not what i want... i think new owners will want a clean start with pa and will end up trashing what FSAS and pa crew.. have built.. and ofcourse we know the community doesn't like change.. and the community is small enough now

Ragnarak · 27 Nov 2002, 14:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Iniluki

well i've bid £0.49

!

i see you're 49p and raise you an erm *looks around* pad of A4 lined paper (with margin) and also a blank biro (no lid)

Ragnarak · 27 Nov 2002, 14:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Iniluki

You swine!

I counter your offer with 7 empty cans of carling, an empty quater pounder box and an AOL cd!

i can match your empty lager cans and rise you a empty smirnoff bottle, a copied CD of Bob Dylans greatest hits and not one but two blank floppy disks

Starbucks · 27 Nov 2002, 14:57

how about £30,000 Underwritten by Barclays Bank, and hosting already organised and sponosred by BT?

Ragnarak · 27 Nov 2002, 15:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Starbucks
how about £30,000 Underwritten by Barclays Bank, and hosting olready organised and sponosred by BT?

i said it before but i think the thread got deleted so:

bagsy admin/mod/PR guy/any job going

Cicada · 27 Nov 2002, 15:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Starbucks
how about £30,000 Underwritten by Barclays Bank, and hosting already organised and sponosred by BT?

argh..

if someone actually BUYS this game, it means i'm still not going to be able to quit ffs..

inf · 27 Nov 2002, 17:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Karmulian
Right

1) i will bring this up with zeus ASAP

2) The optional fields are just that - optional, if you posted your location etc its ur problem to remove them.

3) the data does NOT contain ur name, - only your email.

And until we recieve a list of people that don't want these passed on - we will leave them..

anyone who doesn't want it passed on - we shall simply delete you account.

Personal detail also includes email, which is vital for the functional for the forums.

It also includes any personal data within the forum, and hence all posts would have to be manually checked.

inf · 27 Nov 2002, 17:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Karmulian

WRONG

FSAS - have an owned license for the Jelsoft product, meaning they can do what they like with it..

with an owned license you only pay $30 a year for unlimited updates.

and yes they will be upgraded.. whether the admisn run the forum.. or the new owner runs them

They may have a licence, but I'm pretty sure this does not allow the to resell the forums.

LHC · 27 Nov 2002, 17:25

Nobody actually cares, and would only sue out of spite.

inf · 27 Nov 2002, 17:27

Quote:

Originally posted by LHC
Nobody actually cares, and would only sue out of spite.

No need to sue, just report the violation.

27 Nov 2002, 17:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Karmulian
well i may sound like thats

but its not what i want... i think new owners will want a clean start with pa and will end up trashing what FSAS and pa crew.. have built.. and ofcourse we know the community doesn't like change.. and the community is small enough now

we do like change

its just for 2 years fifth season ignored the community and did what they wanted

nuff said.

Pyr0 MK III · 27 Nov 2002, 17:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Iniluki

You swine!

I counter your offer with 7 empty cans of carling, an empty quater pounder box and an AOL cd!

AOL CD is the clincher

Starbucks · 27 Nov 2002, 18:00

Quote:

Originally posted by inf

No need to sue, just report the violation.

well if the url stays the same, then there is no violation under vbulletins licence, if they do change the url, then that will have to be put in the member page at vbulletin

Add · 27 Nov 2002, 18:03

Quote:

Originally posted by inf

They may have a licence, but I'm pretty sure this does not allow the to resell the forums.

hi inf.

27 Nov 2002, 18:06

also, if they do sell our email addresses, what are we going to get in the way of a guaruntee saying that the new company wont sell them to wearegayandspam.com ?

Tactitus · 27 Nov 2002, 18:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Idi
also, if they do sell our email addresses, what are we going to get in the way of a guaruntee saying that the new company wont sell them to wearegayandspam.com ?

Probably the same sort of guarantee you got from Fifth Season.

Starbucks · 27 Nov 2002, 18:37

Im sure the new company will be reputable

Gayle29uk · 27 Nov 2002, 19:16

Quote:

Originally posted by inf

They may have a licence, but I'm pretty sure this does not allow the to resell the forums.

The content of the forums and the license itself are two totally different things. Jelsoft have no claim whatsoever over the database contents as it has nothing to do with them, only the code is theirs.

As for the license, yes you can sell it

inf · 27 Nov 2002, 19:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Starbucks

well if the url stays the same, then there is no violation under vbulletins licence, if they do change the url, then that will have to be put in the member page at vbulletin

This may be so, but they cannot sell on personal data, because of norwegian law.

inf · 27 Nov 2002, 20:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Starbucks
Im sure the new company will be reputable

a reputable company?
a company purchasing planetarion?

surely these two are mutually exclusive.

inf · 27 Nov 2002, 20:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Gayle28uk

The content of the forums and the license itself are two totally different things. Jelsoft have no claim whatsoever over the database contents as it has nothing to do with them, only the code is theirs.

As for the license, yes you can sell it

Planetarion cannot sell 'the forums' as one entirety, because of the reasons I have already stated.