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Unread 13 Feb 2016, 01:24   #51
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by booji
This seems a strange statement when you are always first when the hits start (and in this case still are despite four alliances hitting you for ages). I don't understand. How is this unambitious? Surely there are multiple motives for hitting ult when they are first, and the ambition to be first yourselves has to be one of them? (the others would be things like fear, revenge, simple balance of power, a bandwagoning mentality, seeing it as a way to ensure everyone else is busy so not hitting you at all etc.)
I'm actually hoping people will keep hitting us, we have so few roids left that people don't gain much by hitting us, while we can get xp lands on all the fatties out there!
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Unread 13 Feb 2016, 01:56   #52
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Don't spoil my masterplan like that eksero...

hi munkee! You're just lucky FL opts to crash dodgy calcs for you. Team effort, i like!
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Unread 13 Feb 2016, 02:22   #53
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by ReaperSix View Post
Hitting ULT isn't about how many roids you get, but then again we know tactics are too complex for you BB
Why am i hitting Ult then, if its not gain cheap fat roids?
Am i missing something vital here?
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Unread 13 Feb 2016, 09:07   #54
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by DrunkenViking View Post
hi munkee! You're just lucky FL opts to crash dodgy calcs for you. Team effort, i like!
Oi Oi! we have done our fair share of crashing!

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Why am i hitting Ult then, if its not gain cheap fat roids?
Am i missing something vital here?
The calculation is rather different for the smaller alliances like ND that are very unlikely to win. For them yes the hope is that Ult wont prioritise incs from you. Otherwise it is about helping allies out or possibly revenge or some other such motive (I think one reason ND joined in on ult was being ptargeted by them earlier in the round, though that must be more than repaid by now).
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Unread 13 Feb 2016, 09:54   #55
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Why am i hitting Ult then, if its not gain cheap fat roids?
Am i missing something vital here?
To keep them down so that p3nguins or Faceless can win. This is the what Chimpie calls 'unambitious' and on the face of it, he's right.

However, there's more to it than that.

What if Ultores isn't stopped from running away with every round from tick 0 onwards? What happens then? In my view, this would either result in them farming everyone to death, or everyone dying of boredom, including Ultores themselves. So either you spend all round keeping Ultores down, even alliances that have no chance to finish #1, or you spend all round waiting for next round, while Ultores wins this one with ease. I think the former choice is the lesser of the two evils.

I see three possible solutions:
1) Do nothing, Ultores stops whining every time they get mass incs for 800 ticks (ie, every round). The universe accepts that this is what happens when one alliance is so much stronger than all others. Status quo.
2) Another alliance steps up their game. If Ultores had serious 1-on-1 competition, politics would become interesting again. Lower ranked alliances could then use their ability to help one or the other alliance win, without having to block up with 4 other alliances for 4 weeks to keep 1 strong alliance down.
3) Ultores stops caring so much and starts playing worse. If alliances only have to hit Ult a couple of days to push them back down, like they do with other alliances, they'll shift their attention elsewhere pretty quickly, like they do with other alliances.

Let me stress that no one is obligated in any way to do any of these things. But unless someone does, PA will find itself in this situation again and again.
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Unread 13 Feb 2016, 13:03   #56
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by DrunkenViking View Post
hi munkee! You're just lucky FL opts to crash dodgy calcs for you. Team effort, i like!
Says the ally allowing its 20man ast tag to do the same everyday
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Unread 13 Feb 2016, 22:08   #57
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Clam down pls ekseri.
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Unread 13 Feb 2016, 22:42   #58
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Clam down pls ekseri.
Sorry
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Unread 14 Feb 2016, 12:54   #59
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
To keep them down so that p3nguins or Faceless can win. This is the what Chimpie calls 'unambitious' and on the face of it, he's right.

However, there's more to it than that.

What if Ultores isn't stopped from running away with every round from tick 0 onwards? What happens then? In my view, this would either result in them farming everyone to death, or everyone dying of boredom, including Ultores themselves. So either you spend all round keeping Ultores down, even alliances that have no chance to finish #1, or you spend all round waiting for next round, while Ultores wins this one with ease. I think the former choice is the lesser of the two evils.

I see three possible solutions:
1) Do nothing, Ultores stops whining every time they get mass incs for 800 ticks (ie, every round). The universe accepts that this is what happens when one alliance is so much stronger than all others. Status quo.
2) Another alliance steps up their game. If Ultores had serious 1-on-1 competition, politics would become interesting again. Lower ranked alliances could then use their ability to help one or the other alliance win, without having to block up with 4 other alliances for 4 weeks to keep 1 strong alliance down.
3) Ultores stops caring so much and starts playing worse. If alliances only have to hit Ult a couple of days to push them back down, like they do with other alliances, they'll shift their attention elsewhere pretty quickly, like they do with other alliances.

Let me stress that no one is obligated in any way to do any of these things. But unless someone does, PA will find itself in this situation again and again.
If the whole goal is to beat Ultores, why are the same allies hitting them now giving them NAP deals in other parts off the round?
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Unread 14 Feb 2016, 13:40   #60
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
If the whole goal is to beat Ultores, why are the same allies hitting them now giving them NAP deals in other parts off the round?
The goal is not to beat Ult, it is to win. However if any other alliance except Ult wants to win they will almost certainly have to get past Ult somehow, and this normally means by fighting.

However other strategies are possible; as there are more than two alliances with the potential to win there is a big incentive to try to avoid fighting Ult hoping that the other alliances will do the work allowing you to sneak past! This is what happens in the early part of each round and sometimes much later too. Only when it becomes clear that a coalition is needed to beat Ult and enable another alliance to have a chance does it come down to a block taking on Ult & whatever help it has scraped together.
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Unread 14 Feb 2016, 14:29   #61
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by booji View Post
The goal is not to beat Ult, it is to win. However if any other alliance except Ult wants to win they will almost certainly have to get past Ult somehow, and this normally means by fighting.

However other strategies are possible; as there are more than two alliances with the potential to win there is a big incentive to try to avoid fighting Ult hoping that the other alliances will do the work allowing you to sneak past! This is what happens in the early part of each round and sometimes much later too. Only when it becomes clear that a coalition is needed to beat Ult and enable another alliance to have a chance does it come down to a block taking on Ult & whatever help it has scraped together.
Well thats what im kicking at eh
Why should alliances keep blocking up, and tieing down Ult for the sneaking alliances when its no longer profitable?
It wil only result in their alliance being even further behind for the upcomming round
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Unread 14 Feb 2016, 15:08   #62
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Re: R65. Who wins?

In this thread, Butcher proves why he should never be left in charge of politics or have any bearing in decisions based on them.

Attacking in this game isn't always down to the most profitable in roids. Ult are notorious for bouncing back after being roided down, so any serious coalition have to hit Ult for reasons other than roid profit in order to achieve the aim of knocking Ult out the top spot.

What seems to confuse people is why alliances not aiming to win or destined for number one get involved. The simply answer is because they generally get dragged into these things naturally. Sure, they may not have an investment in wanting to drop an alliance down, but to sit on the sidelines alone and with no friends is a death sentence in this game.

Also, too many 'top alliances' have ignored these smaller alliances before which is why IMO those in higher positions need to "touch base" with these other alliances more and more rather than discounting them as no threat.
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Unread 14 Feb 2016, 16:04   #63
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Zh|l View Post
In this thread, Butcher proves why he should never be left in charge of politics or have any bearing in decisions based on them.

Attacking in this game isn't always down to the most profitable in roids. Ult are notorious for bouncing back after being roided down, so any serious coalition have to hit Ult for reasons other than roid profit in order to achieve the aim of knocking Ult out the top spot.

What seems to confuse people is why alliances not aiming to win or destined for number one get involved. The simply answer is because they generally get dragged into these things naturally. Sure, they may not have an investment in wanting to drop an alliance down, but to sit on the sidelines alone and with no friends is a death sentence in this game.

Also, too many 'top alliances' have ignored these smaller alliances before which is why IMO those in higher positions need to "touch base" with these other alliances more and more rather than discounting them as no threat.
Why on earth would any sane HC ruin his own alliance in return of having someone, who perhaps have "set on the fence" earlier in the round to gain teh advantage over the lower ranked alliance, win the round? The "sneakers" in boojis post.
BowS did this one round, and im sure they will never ever do it again, as it almost resulted in the alliance folding after it.
Nobody is denying that Ultores is the beachmaster in this game, but surely it must be up to the sneakers to try do something about it?
CT/FL/p3ng sent out 8k attack fleets in total last round. Im sure if they, or any other alliance in the 2nd tier, decided to aim more of these fleets on Ult in the first place, Ult would never get into a position like this midway through the round.
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Unread 14 Feb 2016, 18:20   #64
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
CT/FL/p3ng sent out 8k attack fleets in total last round. Im sure if they, or any other alliance in the 2nd tier, decided to aim more of these fleets on Ult in the first place, Ult would never get into a position like this midway through the round.
True. You are certainly correct that if an alliance wanted to take out ult the beginning would really be the time to do it. The problem is that going to war with someone at the beginning runs the risk of putting you in the position you want to put ult in. Indeed given ult will probably win such a war this is likely. As a result you would be sacrificing your alliance simply to slow Ult down, what HC would do that?

As a result you would need a coalition like you see form later on to actually be sure you wont pay the price doing the fighting. But such a coalition only ever really forms when an alliance is way out in front. Everyone is too suspicious of everyone else to make such an early move.

I also think that BW folding may have something to do with it this round. Neither p3n nor fl thought they would really be competing for first as both expected to be around 45 members. In p3n's case we had already made a fort avoid agreement to last til tick 500 when we were in that position and were not about to break an agreement just because we had more members than expected!
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Unread 14 Feb 2016, 19:05   #65
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by booji View Post
True. You are certainly correct that if an alliance wanted to take out ult the beginning would really be the time to do it. The problem is that going to war with someone at the beginning runs the risk of putting you in the position you want to put ult in. Indeed given ult will probably win such a war this is likely. As a result you would be sacrificing your alliance simply to slow Ult down, what HC would do that?

As a result you would need a coalition like you see form later on to actually be sure you wont pay the price doing the fighting. But such a coalition only ever really forms when an alliance is way out in front. Everyone is too suspicious of everyone else to make such an early move.

I also think that BW folding may have something to do with it this round. Neither p3n nor fl thought they would really be competing for first as both expected to be around 45 members. In p3n's case we had already made a fort avoid agreement to last til tick 500 when we were in that position and were not about to break an agreement just because we had more members than expected!
Well, PA today makes it way to profitable to be a sneaker.
Who would want to help out someone who agreed to be allied to someone for half the round, while you had to take the heavy hits?
And excusing the folding of a 15 man tag to "upset the balance and goals for the round" is kinda funny, even though it has nothing to do with the other parts of your post, just wanted to point that out.
afaik, CT/BowS/P3ng all had fort deals/NAPs with Ult for the beginning parts of the round, this is why Ult was allowed to grow in the first place
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Unread 14 Feb 2016, 20:41   #66
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Zh|l View Post
Also, too many 'top alliances' have ignored these smaller alliances before which is why IMO those in higher positions need to "touch base" with these other alliances more and more rather than discounting them as no threat.
Agreed.
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Unread 14 Feb 2016, 22:21   #67
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Why on earth would any sane HC ruin his own alliance in return of having someone, who perhaps have "set on the fence" earlier in the round to gain teh advantage over the lower ranked alliance, win the round? The "sneakers" in boojis post.
BowS did this one round, and im sure they will never ever do it again, as it almost resulted in the alliance folding after it.
Nobody is denying that Ultores is the beachmaster in this game, but surely it must be up to the sneakers to try do something about it?
CT/FL/p3ng sent out 8k attack fleets in total last round. Im sure if they, or any other alliance in the 2nd tier, decided to aim more of these fleets on Ult in the first place, Ult would never get into a position like this midway through the round.
I never said it was up to the smaller alliances not playing for number one to initiate anything. As booj already pointed out, in the current climate you simply don't want to be number one for the first half of the round.

Any 'sane HC' will do things for their alliance that will benefit it in the long run. It's very difficult when you're in a position where the bigger alliances can literally do anything they want and it's actually in their favour for big wars to break out.

While it isn't the duty or anything of smaller alliances to help take down a more entrenched alliance, the benefits of doing so are many. I'll post just a few:

1) Generally the #1 alliance will become besieged and have no fleet slots to help out their allies. If you're looking at a 'side' to join then the one with the more fleets is better. (Of course there ARE times when joining the number one is better)

2) Getting a galactic war started is GOOD for the smaller alliances as it means you know you're not getting hit by random galaxy raids from the top 4/5. It gives you breathing room to grow and less incomings. The longer the war goes on - the better!

3) Finding a bigger alliance as a friend can be tough for smaller alliances when they are generally tossed aside, especially one you can trust. Doing "your bit" and fostering relations can help the inevitable moment that the target alliance is 'defeated'.

In my time with Spore I tried my best to link up with 'other alliances'. Heroes/Ascendancy/Insomnia/New Dawn (after they suffered horrible losses) etc. All the time, these alliances were considered 'insignificant' by other top alliances - to me, they were another potential friend.

Also, the disbanding of Black Flag HAS knocked things. It creates a political vacuum that must be filled. Ultores clearly banked on being able to roll through the round without coordinated resistance. Good on the "Coalition" for getting their act together and creating a challenge.

What always boggles me is how Ultores seem "shocked" by it, or even jaded by it. Ultores could easily use different tactics to offset all of these things but it doesn't seem too. Never seems too. Brute force can only get you so far.
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Unread 15 Feb 2016, 01:01   #68
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Re: R65. Who wins?

I like you Zhil, but you can be a bit of a troll.. Ultores expected to get blocked, and are as such not at all shocked that exactly that happened. If anything, we're more shocked that it didn't happend sooner..
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Unread 15 Feb 2016, 03:17   #69
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Zh|l View Post
I never said it was up to the smaller alliances not playing for number one to initiate anything. As booj already pointed out, in the current climate you simply don't want to be number one for the first half of the round.

Any 'sane HC' will do things for their alliance that will benefit it in the long run. It's very difficult when you're in a position where the bigger alliances can literally do anything they want and it's actually in their favour for big wars to break out.

While it isn't the duty or anything of smaller alliances to help take down a more entrenched alliance, the benefits of doing so are many. I'll post just a few:

1) Generally the #1 alliance will become besieged and have no fleet slots to help out their allies. If you're looking at a 'side' to join then the one with the more fleets is better. (Of course there ARE times when joining the number one is better)

2) Getting a galactic war started is GOOD for the smaller alliances as it means you know you're not getting hit by random galaxy raids from the top 4/5. It gives you breathing room to grow and less incomings. The longer the war goes on - the better!

3) Finding a bigger alliance as a friend can be tough for smaller alliances when they are generally tossed aside, especially one you can trust. Doing "your bit" and fostering relations can help the inevitable moment that the target alliance is 'defeated'.

In my time with Spore I tried my best to link up with 'other alliances'. Heroes/Ascendancy/Insomnia/New Dawn (after they suffered horrible losses) etc. All the time, these alliances were considered 'insignificant' by other top alliances - to me, they were another potential friend.

Also, the disbanding of Black Flag HAS knocked things. It creates a political vacuum that must be filled. Ultores clearly banked on being able to roll through the round without coordinated resistance. Good on the "Coalition" for getting their act together and creating a challenge.

What always boggles me is how Ultores seem "shocked" by it, or even jaded by it. Ultores could easily use different tactics to offset all of these things but it doesn't seem too. Never seems too. Brute force can only get you so far.
Back when Spore were playing ND was a major player, and were winning or close to winning rounds, now days ND has been struggling to get a working alliance.
And ND does not do much politics, they are allied/working with the two same alliances each round, p3ng and CT, so trying to work dwith them for the likes of BowS/HR/Ult is pointless. Often you would actual see ND being NAPed with everyone ingame, except one of HR/Ult/BowS and PATSA.
HR simply does not do politics for majority of the round from my experience.
Heroes/Astatores is just extentions of Ult

Now days there is no "gal raiding", most alliances are forted, and finding any gals wich aint containing 3 or more planets of alliance A or B, is impossiobole. Maybe the PA crew should consider to change/remove the BP system to try make the game more unpredictable.


Back to the point, why would any sane hc keep hitting alliance X when they have no roids left, to help alliance A in their bid for the win?
Often alliance A will go to grounding mode when they are getting hit, or when the alliance X has no roids left, and it leaves the heavy lifting to the smaller allies.
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Unread 15 Feb 2016, 12:03   #70
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by DrunkenViking View Post
I like you Zhil, but you can be a bit of a troll.. Ultores expected to get blocked, and are as such not at all shocked that exactly that happened. If anything, we're more shocked that it didn't happend sooner..
Apologies, that was not my intention. I'm just going by what brief stuff I've seen and history from at least several rounds ago.

I know you probably can't answer till after the round is over but if you knew Ultores was going to get blocked, what did you do about it? Why do you accept the status quo or did your mitigation attempts hit problems?

I'm genuinely intrigued to why this still seems to happen to Ultores despite progress in your politics from when I played.
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Unread 15 Feb 2016, 12:16   #71
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Also fun to see all the support tags fling fleets to Ult's rescue! And die!
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Unread 15 Feb 2016, 12:17   #72
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Krypton
Also fun to see all the support tags fling fleets to Ult's rescue! And die!
Are you upset you guys can't 3 fleet attack us un-punished anymore like the past 2 weeks?
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Unread 15 Feb 2016, 13:10   #73
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Why would we be unhappy to have to defend a little bit you crash amazingly well!
http://game.planetarion.com/show_new...hwwxkm9y1qifgv
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Unread 15 Feb 2016, 13:46   #74
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Why would we be unhappy to have to defend a little bit you crash amazingly well!
http://game.planetarion.com/show_new...hwwxkm9y1qifgv
Well I guess that just cost us the round!
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Unread 15 Feb 2016, 14:01   #75
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Well I guess that just cost us the round!

Except that in effect we crashed much more than that the next tick!
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Unread 15 Feb 2016, 14:07   #76
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by booji View Post
Except that in effect we crashed much more than that the next tick!
Well atleast now that you have been crashing value carelessly, p3nguins can "keep on holding Ult down" so Faceless or Norse can leap into the lead.
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Unread 15 Feb 2016, 14:29   #77
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Norse winning ally would be awesome, but I think that is a bit of a stretch still.
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Unread 15 Feb 2016, 14:45   #78
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Norse winning ally would be awesome, but I think that is a bit of a stretch still.
Well given that they are not hit for the remaining ticks, and add a five 3 million planets, they win
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Unread 15 Feb 2016, 14:51   #79
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Let me share with you all the winning formula... DCs that are good and fast at what they do, dedicated... Then players who respond to def calls and build what is asked of them. Get good!
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Unread 15 Feb 2016, 15:02   #80
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Let me share with you all the winning formula... DCs that are good and fast at what they do, dedicated... Then players who respond to def calls and build what is asked of them. Get good!
Only the last one is easy for an alliance to manage. The first in particular is really difficult for any new alliance to do, the are simply too few players who are willing and able to dc for a whole alliance. This is regularly put forward as the main reason for why tag limits can't be lowered to create more competition. The lack of people willing to get up in the middle of the night to send defence is something that p3nguins suffers from but I am not sure that is the case for all alliances. It is less of a problem than the dcs, but then you needs to have someone calling to get people up to defend so condition two relies on condition one.
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Unread 15 Feb 2016, 15:05   #81
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Here's a secret. Ult has a grand total of 2 dedicated DCs. Then people step in to DC their own stuff on occasion but pretty much all ships go through the 2 DCs for the most part. Quality over quantity. Confusion leads to a mess and poor coverage or over coverage.
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Unread 15 Feb 2016, 15:10   #82
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Re: R65. Who wins?

I agree that it only takes a couple. My stating there is a lack of dcs was stating that it is difficult even to find that many. P3n has 0 consistent dcs. Yes this is partially down to p3n's lack of a system but it is also simply reflects the reality that we have no one in the alliance who would be willing and able to regularly and consistently dc for the alliance. We are extremely Euro centric, to the point we often have difficulties finding a night scanner let alone a dc (Anne has been a godsend in the scanning department this round).
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Unread 15 Feb 2016, 15:13   #83
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Fuyu View Post
Here's a secret. Ult has a grand total of 2 dedicated DCs. Then people step in to DC their own stuff on occasion but pretty much all ships go through the 2 DCs for the most part. Quality over quantity. Confusion leads to a mess and poor coverage or over coverage.
Its only BF, BowS and Ult who have managed to have "1 or more quality DCs" the last year or so, and only Ult who seems to be able to have them round after round.
Its not like its a "formula" wich only Ultores has managed to crack so far, dont flatter yourself.
As booji said the playerbase is simply to small to be able to have dedicated DCs in every alliance out there, and even if they had not every player would be willing to give up/risk family life to play planetarion like Ultores is able to do, wake up every night and send out defence fleets.
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Unread 15 Feb 2016, 15:15   #84
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Its only BF, BowS and Ult who have managed to have "1 or more quality DCs" the last year or so, and only Ult who seems to be able to have them round after round.
Its not like its a "formula" wich only Ultores has managed to crack so far, dont flatter yourself.
As booji said the playerbase is simply to small to be able to have dedicated DCs in every alliance out there, and even if they had not every player would be willing to give up/risk family life to play planetarion like Ultores is able to do, wake up every night and send out defence fleets.
So get this, there's this new amazing concept going around you may not have heard of... it's called sarcasm. It's quite a notion! It's where someone says something but is saying it in a manner that conveys the fact such should be obvious already!

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Unread 15 Feb 2016, 15:21   #85
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Sorry, im being a bit of a bi*ch aren't i? What is probably a big issue here is people schedule around incs or are no lifers. Alliances with lots of these people are indeed at an advantage. But you already KNEW the game's demands. You get back whatever you invest in anything so if you can't or won't invest the time and effort into PA as other alliances, of course you won't win.
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Unread 15 Feb 2016, 15:42   #86
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by booji View Post
Only the last one is easy for an alliance to manage. The first in particular is really difficult for any new alliance to do, the are simply too few players who are willing and able to dc for a whole alliance. This is regularly put forward as the main reason for why tag limits can't be lowered to create more competition. The lack of people willing to get up in the middle of the night to send defence is something that p3nguins suffers from but I am not sure that is the case for all alliances. It is less of a problem than the dcs, but then you needs to have someone calling to get people up to defend so condition two relies on condition one.
with lower tag limits, roids would just go around more, whats wrong with that?
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Unread 15 Feb 2016, 15:44   #87
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Please. Not this. Not again.
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Unread 15 Feb 2016, 15:51   #88
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Re: R65. Who wins?

Yes sure lower the tag limit to 30-40... then we'll see the revival of wing alliances!
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Unread 15 Feb 2016, 16:38   #89
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Sorry, im being a bit of a bi*ch aren't i? What is probably a big issue here is people schedule around incs or are no lifers. Alliances with lots of these people are indeed at an advantage. But you already KNEW the game's demands. You get back whatever you invest in anything so if you can't or won't invest the time and effort into PA as other alliances, of course you won't win.
Your a funny one.
The investment required is one of the reason why people are quitting the game, as they understand they cant invest the amount of time wich is required to be sucsessful in this game no more.
Again what you claim is not something other people just havnt realised yet.
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Unread 15 Feb 2016, 17:50   #90
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Apologies, that was not my intention. I'm just going by what brief stuff I've seen and history from at least several rounds ago.

I know you probably can't answer till after the round is over but if you knew Ultores was going to get blocked, what did you do about it? Why do you accept the status quo or did your mitigation attempts hit problems?

I'm genuinely intrigued to why this still seems to happen to Ultores despite progress in your politics from when I played.
The short and simple awnser is that Ult keeps running away with it early(this round more so than last), and that the universe as a result responds to it to avoid stagnation and a boring second half of the round. This is ofc something we expect when we know we're strong, and something we to a certain degree accept. I'll go more into details after the round if someone is actually interested then.
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Unread 15 Feb 2016, 17:58   #91
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Re: R65. Who wins?

It's easy to be strong from round start with multiple support planets when you aren't getting hit...
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Unread 15 Feb 2016, 18:42   #92
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Re: R65. Who wins?

We fought fl 1 on 1 early on if i don't remember wrong. And ND kept hitting us thoughout.
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Unread 15 Feb 2016, 21:57   #93
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Well given that they are not hit for the remaining ticks, and add a five 3 million planets, they win
We do not have those 5 - 3 million planets though.

We have no one oot.

We have no plans of trying to get anyone oot to join.

We have no intention of trying to win the round.

Think that is as clear as it can get
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Unread 15 Feb 2016, 22:36   #94
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Re: R65. Who wins?

The solution to all of this is raising the tag limits to 120!
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Unread 15 Feb 2016, 23:50   #95
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
We do not have those 5 - 3 million planets though.

We have no one oot.

We have no plans of trying to get anyone oot to join.

We have no intention of trying to win the round.

Think that is as clear as it can get
Even with not adding anyone else from out of tag, if nothing changes roidwise from today untill the end of round, Norse would only be trailing Ult by a few millions.
The 10k roid lead is worth 12-16million if the roid balance between ult and norse dosnt change.
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Unread 16 Feb 2016, 16:11   #96
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Even with not adding anyone else from out of tag, if nothing changes roidwise from today untill the end of round, Norse would only be trailing Ult by a few millions.
The 10k roid lead is worth 12-16million if the roid balance between ult and norse dosnt change.
Hmm, not sure what you're calcing. If you say we have an avg bonus of 60% (i don't think it's that high) and we have 10k more roids in avg (4kish atm). We would gain 9,8 mill on ult before round ends. So we would be 8 mill behind. Also we won't get much xp because of our value.

If you're thinking like that then I would rather watch out for CT that gains 15 mill on ult with the current roid lead, but that's for 60 planets, if we use the avg size they'll gain the same as us on Ult. Which puts them 3 mill behind with much greater possibility for xp then us.
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Unread 16 Feb 2016, 16:20   #97
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Sandvold View Post
Hmm, not sure what you're calcing. If you say we have an avg bonus of 60% (i don't think it's that high) and we have 10k more roids in avg (4kish atm). We would gain 9,8 mill on ult before round ends. So we would be 8 mill behind. Also we won't get much xp because of our value.

If you're thinking like that then I would rather watch out for CT that gains 15 mill on ult with the current roid lead, but that's for 60 planets, if we use the avg size they'll gain the same as us on Ult. Which puts them 3 mill behind with much greater possibility for xp then us.
[23:48] <B-Butch3r> !roidcost 10000 11000000 70
[23:48] <Scans> Capping 10000 roids at 11m value with 70% bonus will repay in 258 ticks (10 days) Demo: 238 ticks (9 days) Total: 238 ticks (9 days)

And honestly im not sure how much roids is in the top40 in the ult tag, so i guess the math is so-so correct.
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Unread 16 Feb 2016, 17:36   #98
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
[23:48] <B-Butch3r> !roidcost 10000 11000000 70
[23:48] <Scans> Capping 10000 roids at 11m value with 70% bonus will repay in 258 ticks (10 days) Demo: 238 ticks (9 days) Total: 238 ticks (9 days)

And honestly im not sure how much roids is in the top40 in the ult tag, so i guess the math is so-so correct.
So as i said with 60% bonus, which is my estimate it amounts to 9.8 mill. That top 40 of ult players sit on most of the roids is very likely, so the 10k roids is fair esitmate. Still a far way up 8 mill if we don't get roided. And we're never catching 8 mill on xp, not that even is a goal. It's just not a reachable and realistic target. If we gain another 15k roids on ult the next two days we might get same score IF ult doesn't land. Not to mention we need to pass fl/ct and p3n. Seems doable to you even if we tried?
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Unread 16 Feb 2016, 20:07   #99
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Zh|l View Post
In this thread, Butcher proves why he should never be left in charge of politics or have any bearing in decisions based on them.

Attacking in this game isn't always down to the most profitable in roids. Ult are notorious for bouncing back after being roided down, so any serious coalition have to hit Ult for reasons other than roid profit in order to achieve the aim of knocking Ult out the top spot.

What seems to confuse people is why alliances not aiming to win or destined for number one get involved. The simply answer is because they generally get dragged into these things naturally. Sure, they may not have an investment in wanting to drop an alliance down, but to sit on the sidelines alone and with no friends is a death sentence in this game.

Also, too many 'top alliances' have ignored these smaller alliances before which is why IMO those in higher positions need to "touch base" with these other alliances more and more rather than discounting them as no threat.
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Unread 16 Feb 2016, 21:49   #100
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Re: R65. Who wins?

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Originally Posted by Sandvold View Post
So as i said with 60% bonus, which is my estimate it amounts to 9.8 mill. That top 40 of ult players sit on most of the roids is very likely, so the 10k roids is fair esitmate. Still a far way up 8 mill if we don't get roided. And we're never catching 8 mill on xp, not that even is a goal. It's just not a reachable and realistic target. If we gain another 15k roids on ult the next two days we might get same score IF ult doesn't land. Not to mention we need to pass fl/ct and p3n. Seems doable to you even if we tried?
Okey, even so, with the 60 bonus then.
As things stands now:
Top40 ult got 34k roids
Norse 49,5k roids
Capping 15500 roids at 15m value with 60% bonus will repay in 241 ticks (10 days)
The half that i could planet scan in Norse got 1,5 million score hidden in stocks, and i cba to start finding out what ult got hidden in stock, but im assuming its not a lot since they prolly spent it all while being under attack.

So _IF_ Ult was not to land XP, and not gain more roids on Norse, and Ult dont got much stock piled, and the Ult top40 stays the same, Norse will be ending around 1-2 million behind Ult.
And if you had five 3 million planets ready to join, and if you would accept them, Norse would win by 13-14 millions over Ult.
An unlikely scenario, but not impossibole.
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Last edited by BloodyButcher; 16 Feb 2016 at 22:03.
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