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Unread 30 Apr 2015, 06:49   #101
winY
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

B-B Stop it gobbler !!
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Unread 30 Apr 2015, 07:40   #102
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
what about BF farming p3ng?
You sure about that?
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Unread 30 Apr 2015, 08:17   #103
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

Will the PA crew hold the BF HC accountable for organized cheating if they in fact broke the rules with their allie scan bot this time?
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Unread 30 Apr 2015, 20:48   #104
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

If you're going to cheat at least win the round...
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Unread 30 Apr 2015, 21:32   #105
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by Munkee View Post
If you're going to cheat at least win the round...
Amusing that this can be directed at a lot of alliances throughout PA history.
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Unread 1 May 2015, 03:00   #106
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zh|l View Post
Amusing that this can be directed at a lot of alliances throughout PA history.
Its okey to cheat just because someone else does it.
And even starting to argument that scans should be avaible for everyone all the time will not change the fact that BF are doing organized cheating with their scans IF the MHs has the same opinion as Appocomaster got on this "scan script" matter.
Maybe you think marihuana should be legalized in your country, but you will still have to face charges if you are caught with it, or caught selling it.

All we know that you admit to having a scan bot in BF, and that BF has set this up.
You claim it is legal. If its not legal you all should face the same consequences as the guy running it if it were up to me.
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Unread 1 May 2015, 06:38   #107
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zh|l View Post
Amusing that this can be directed at a lot of alliances throughout PA history.
For Someone that's against cheating (I thought you were) I'm surprised your still within a high role/authority position in bf. We first have this "support tag" which clouds denied they were involved with bf (but I presume from what I read they were basically the second tag which were not only cheating but obviously could be classed as cheating under the support planet rule) now this scan script.

We even have members who have left the alliance this round openly tell others that you were cheating.. So can't really keep denying it.
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Unread 1 May 2015, 06:52   #108
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

wtf would you need to use a bot to scan for you?....Its not hard scan yourself....i've only been doing it off and on since R11...it takes being active, which is what you want in your members anyways
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Unread 1 May 2015, 07:34   #109
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willzzz View Post
For Someone that's against cheating (I thought you were) I'm surprised your still within a high role/authority position in bf. We first have this "support tag" which clouds denied they were involved with bf (but I presume from what I read they were basically the second tag which were not only cheating but obviously could be classed as cheating under the support planet rule) now this scan script.

We even have members who have left the alliance this round openly tell others that you were cheating.. So can't really keep denying it.
I am against cheating but I don't automatically subscribe to the view that Clouds is guilty. I was told in no uncertain terms if I saw a certain page - it would prove the guilt and it didn't.

Additionally I am NOT High Council within BlackFlag, My position within the alliance was at first to help with politics and then at mid point to take control of politics. Even when I took control of politics I was/am still not a High Council member. I have no voting power nor control over any other aspect of Black Flag.

Even if it is proven some elements of BF HC cheated, I am not the internet police. Resigning from my post would only done nothing at all and my obligation is to the many members of Black Flag which as others have pointed out are definitely not cheating.

Should I abandon them just because of other people wishes? If I had resigned straight away this round would have been over long ago and you'd all be moaning right now about stagnation instead.

Spore always had a consistent record of removing those who were a) cheating as according to the Multihunters b) cheating as decided by the Spore High Council.

As for the scan bot, that's really not my area of expertise. If Black Flag were told by PA Team that it was legal then that's between the BF HC and PA Team. Since I have no planet, I've not had to use scans at all so I've not noticed to it's exact makeup.

[Edit: I would also like to point out that a portion of Spore High Council, especially Bashar, was very suspicious of CT's tools and the addon that they use to update it with information. Bashar was very critical of it and thought it was cheating for a long time, regardless of what PA Team decided. Obviously I can't speak for Bashar's opinions now on it - afterall, Spore did consider using CT tools and it's "status" wasn't the key decision to why it wasn't used in the end, but my example is merely to prove a point that when we saw it, elements of us believed it was cheating. I'm not in ANY SHAPE OR FORM accusing CT of cheating - just to point out that grey areas can be seen by people]
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Unread 1 May 2015, 07:52   #110
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

If there really is massive use of bot enabled scan planets then this should be a wake up call to the pa crew. Enable alliance scanning without planets - stop making people sacrifice their round, and their sleep, to scan for the alliance by making it that the alliance itself can do scans when anyone with sufficient access is on. I am sure this and similar has been suggested multiple times.
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Unread 1 May 2015, 07:52   #111
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Its okey to cheat just because someone else does it.
And even starting to argument that scans should be avaible for everyone all the time will not change the fact that BF are doing organized cheating with their scans IF the MHs has the same opinion as Appocomaster got on this "scan script" matter.
Maybe you think marihuana should be legalized in your country, but you will still have to face charges if you are caught with it, or caught selling it.

All we know that you admit to having a scan bot in BF, and that BF has set this up.
You claim it is legal. If its not legal you all should face the same consequences as the guy running it if it were up to me.

I never said that, please stop putting words in my mouth.

I honestly thought Munkee's post was amusing considering the state of the game as it is and from my own experience as HC fighting against alliances that are suddenly behind the "anti-cheating" and yet do so themselves. (Or have worked with alliances who do so in the past too)

I do NOT think it is okay to cheat under any circumstance, but I do feel that people are wearing blinkers.
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Unread 1 May 2015, 07:58   #112
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

Quote:
Originally Posted by booji View Post
If there really is massive use of bot enabled scan planets then this should be a wake up call to the pa crew. Enable alliance scanning without planets - stop making people sacrifice their round, and their sleep, to scan for the alliance by making it that the alliance itself can do scans when anyone with sufficient access is on. I am sure this and similar has been suggested multiple times.
This.

I hate the idea of scan planets entirely. I do not think anyone should have to sacrifice their round just to enable an alliance to get effective scans. It's an old outdated mechanic that is terrible in the game today. Note also some alliances need multiple people to do this in order to try and cover all time zones.

IMO should be taken a step further and just end the need for scan technology entirely in the tech tree - let scans just be done from using the alliance fund. Amps/Distorter could be removed as a result just to test it out for a round.
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Unread 1 May 2015, 08:36   #113
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zh|l View Post
This.

I hate the idea of scan planets entirely. I do not think anyone should have to sacrifice their round just to enable an alliance to get effective scans. It's an old outdated mechanic that is terrible in the game today. Note also some alliances need multiple people to do this in order to try and cover all time zones.
not some alliances, all alliances except the ones who are using a bot in the same fashion BF is today. granted the list of alliances that never used scanners with automated scanning in the past isn't that long.
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Unread 1 May 2015, 10:01   #114
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zh|l View Post
Even if it is proven some elements of BF HC cheated, I am not the internet police. Resigning from my post would only done nothing at all and my obligation is to the many members of Black Flag which as others have pointed out are definitely not cheating.

Should I abandon them just because of other people wishes? If I had resigned straight away this round would have been over long ago and you'd all be moaning right now about stagnation instead.
I feel players have an informal responsibility to assist PA Team with catching cheaters. If at any point you were aware of actions that you believe were illegal, then you should've contacted the MHs. If not, then not. That said, I'd guess about half the active playerbase in PA has benefitted from a scanner bot (as opposed to a scans bot) at one point or another, including me, so singling you out for public scrutiny is unreasonable. Glass houses.

As for what to do, now that a public statement by Appoco has (seemingly) contradicted statements by BF representatives, that's a tough one. BF members (and everyone else) were told by BF HCs that the bot was legal. While that statement on its own may be a bit hard to believe, the common trope for people using bots like this has been 'the MHs approved it'. Being vigilant for cheating is one thing; accusing people of outright lying is quite another. I see no reason for an alliance-wide crackdown as Butcher the Holy Crusader is proposing. What does remain is two options:

1) The bot owners either flat out lied about speaking to the MHs, or they misrepresented how the bot works and what it does, or they accurately represented one version of a bot, then expanded it after the fact. I've heard people claim their bot wasn't really a bot because it consisted of three distinct pieces. Hilarious, but you can see how that kind of convoluted thinking might cause an MH to draw the wrong conclusion. Simple: Close the bot(s), the bot owner(s), and the HCs that organized systemic cheating. Since providing scans is one of the main functions of alliances (attacks, defense, politics, scans), it is ultimately the HCs who are responsible for a scanner bot. In lieu of accurate information about who's in charge of what, that's the person who signed up the tag, as the 'owner' of the alliance.

2) The bot owners really did describe the bot's functions to the MHs and accurately explained what actions the bot could take without human intervention and which it couldn't. Despite the clear bothood, the MHs really did approve. If that's the case, no one's guitly of anything (except the MHs, of gross stupidity). Close this bot immediately (because the EULA allows Ranul Tech to change its mind about its contents, let alone how it's to be interpreted), but do not close or even warn the bot owner. Inform the community that this type of bot is no longer allowed and will be treated as willful botting (rather that unintentional) botting starting 72 hours from now, and that existing bots must be deleted by that point. 72 hours later, treat all remaining bots as instances of option 1 and go on a MH spree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zh|l View Post
I would also like to point out that a portion of Spore High Council, especially Bashar, was very suspicious of CT's tools and the addon that they use to update it with information. Bashar was very critical of it and thought it was cheating for a long time, regardless of what PA Team decided. Obviously I can't speak for Bashar's opinions now on it - afterall, Spore did consider using CT tools and it's "status" wasn't the key decision to why it wasn't used in the end, but my example is merely to prove a point that when we saw it, elements of us believed it was cheating. I'm not in ANY SHAPE OR FORM accusing CT of cheating - just to point out that grey areas can be seen by people
For people who may not be aware: CT members are required to run a Greasemonkey script that takes all the scans they see ingame and posts them to the CT webbie. My first thought was that this is not a bot, because it takes no actions in the game, but a closer reading of the ters and conditions requires only 'access' to the game, for example 'using browser plugins that make it easier for you to play the game'. If that's not the definition of Greasemonkey scripts then I don't know what is. I am therefore now inclined to agree with Bashar, though the absence of in-game actions make this a minor offense at worst.

And for the sake of completeness: Merlin and Munin have long had functionality that allowed it to retrieve scans. However, it can only do so when the URLs are pasted on IRC (or into the webbie), and it uses an PA API designed specifically for bots to access them (this one). It is possible for a scanner bot to feed scan URLs into Merlin/Munin, but M*in on their own cannot.
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Unread 1 May 2015, 10:07   #115
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by Zh|l View Post
IMO should be taken a step further and just end the need for scan technology entirely in the tech tree - let scans just be done from using the alliance fund. Amps/Distorter could be removed as a result just to test it out for a round.
I dislike dedicated scanners too. However, I love the notion of being able to become immune to scans.

I am in favour of removing the need to research basic scans, to allow people without access to dedicated scanners to play the game. Planet, unit (including cloaked ships, 20% inaccurate) and jgp (against planets your fleet is eta 4 or lower on) should be very easy to get, possibly right at round start. Give everyone 10 amps to start with. But building dists to become immune to scans should be a viable strategy. Not that is a viable strategy now, but burning all of our bridges seems unnecessary.
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Unread 1 May 2015, 10:41   #116
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
I feel players have an informal responsibility to assist PA Team with catching cheaters. If at any point you were aware of actions that you believe were illegal, then you should've contacted the MHs. If not, then not. That said, I'd guess about half the active playerbase in PA has benefitted from a scanner bot (as opposed to a scans bot) at one point or another, including me, so singling you out for public scrutiny is unreasonable. Glass houses.

As for what to do, now that a public statement by Appoco has (seemingly) contradicted statements by BF representatives, that's a tough one. BF members (and everyone else) were told by BF HCs that the bot was legal. While that statement on its own may be a bit hard to believe, the common trope for people using bots like this has been 'the MHs approved it'. Being vigilant for cheating is one thing; accusing people of outright lying is quite another. I see no reason for an alliance-wide crackdown as Butcher the Holy Crusader is proposing. What does remain is two options:

1) The bot owners either flat out lied about speaking to the MHs, or they misrepresented how the bot works and what it does, or they accurately represented one version of a bot, then expanded it after the fact. I've heard people claim their bot wasn't really a bot because it consisted of three distinct pieces. Hilarious, but you can see how that kind of convoluted thinking might cause an MH to draw the wrong conclusion. Simple: Close the bot(s), the bot owner(s), and the HCs that organized systemic cheating. Since providing scans is one of the main functions of alliances (attacks, defense, politics, scans), it is ultimately the HCs who are responsible for a scanner bot. In lieu of accurate information about who's in charge of what, that's the person who signed up the tag, as the 'owner' of the alliance.

2) The bot owners really did describe the bot's functions to the MHs and accurately explained what actions the bot could take without human intervention and which it couldn't. Despite the clear bothood, the MHs really did approve. If that's the case, no one's guitly of anything (except the MHs, of gross stupidity). Close this bot immediately (because the EULA allows Ranul Tech to change its mind about its contents, let alone how it's to be interpreted), but do not close or even warn the bot owner. Inform the community that this type of bot is no longer allowed and will be treated as willful botting (rather that unintentional) botting starting 72 hours from now, and that existing bots must be deleted by that point. 72 hours later, treat all remaining bots as instances of option 1 and go on a MH spree.


For people who may not be aware: CT members are required to run a Greasemonkey script that takes all the scans they see ingame and posts them to the CT webbie. My first thought was that this is not a bot, because it takes no actions in the game, but a closer reading of the ters and conditions requires only 'access' to the game, for example 'using browser plugins that make it easier for you to play the game'. If that's not the definition of Greasemonkey scripts then I don't know what is. I am therefore now inclined to agree with Bashar, though the absence of in-game actions make this a minor offense at worst.

And for the sake of completeness: Merlin and Munin have long had functionality that allowed it to retrieve scans. However, it can only do so when the URLs are pasted on IRC (or into the webbie), and it uses an PA API designed specifically for bots to access them (this one). It is possible for a scanner bot to feed scan URLs into Merlin/Munin, but M*in on their own cannot.
nothing to add here - even though the ways of punishment suggested (and reasonable) dont feel like they make up for the damage caused

now i guess its for MH to clarify to Appoco/Cin and then for them to take action

On a sidenote: Especially in the early ticks of a round p3nguins for sure lost some roids due to not beeing able to have a scan on time - not because of dists, but because of our dedicated scanners simply not beeing online

So a Scanbot is a HUGE advantage for any alliance or group of players - even worse then someones imaginary gf playing a scan account...

Maybe if things get prooven The Tag Owner should be banned from leading any Alliance-Tag in future, though i am well aware he could just sign up his boysfriends account to make a tag

But at least it would be a sign that Admins do not regard systematic cheating as a minor problem
(i personally think that the admin team is too afraid to loose any more players - so they tend to close both eyes at times)

my 2 cents
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Unread 1 May 2015, 10:58   #117
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by M0RPH3US View Post
nothing to add here - even though the ways of punishment suggested (and reasonable) dont feel like they make up for the damage caused
Losing 2.5 of your 50 planets is, on average, a 5% score loss. A scanner bot is useful, yes, but it's not the difference between a #1 and #4 spot.
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Unread 1 May 2015, 10:59   #118
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by Zh|l View Post
This.

I hate the idea of scan planets entirely. I do not think anyone should have to sacrifice their round just to enable an alliance to get effective scans. It's an old outdated mechanic that is terrible in the game today. Note also some alliances need multiple people to do this in order to try and cover all time zones.

IMO should be taken a step further and just end the need for scan technology entirely in the tech tree - let scans just be done from using the alliance fund. Amps/Distorter could be removed as a result just to test it out for a round.
This isnt a discussion about wether to change how scan works.
As i said in the IRC channel yesterday, if you think scanning should be free, go post on suggestion forums, dont set up a bot do it for you.
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Unread 1 May 2015, 11:14   #119
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Losing 2.5 of your 50 planets is, on average, a 5% score loss. A scanner bot is useful, yes, but it's not the difference between a #1 and #4 spot.
as i said its reasonable the owner gets closed

dont wanna even start argueing about how useful it is or not - cause there is a million arguments for both sides
and my mum told me to never argue on the interwebs...

it just doesnt FEEL justifiying to me
but thats a personal totally subjective impression
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Unread 1 May 2015, 11:24   #120
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

From my perspective it looks like we have admittance of the scan bots being used to produce automated scans from in game (some naive arguments that this has no advantage). Once you have this functionality I think you are only a couple of steps away from automated attack/defence bots, which this thread originally started pointing towards.

Full circle, but we seem to be seeing a lot of compounded evidence pointing towards guilt.. and still no tag win for those in the firing line.
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Unread 1 May 2015, 12:41   #121
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by Willzzz View Post
We even have members who have left the alliance this round openly tell others that you were cheating.. So can't really keep denying it.
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Originally Posted by Munkee View Post
From my perspective it looks like we have admittance of the scan bots being used to produce automated scans from in game (some naive arguments that this has no advantage). Once you have this functionality I think you are only a couple of steps away from automated attack/defence bots, which this thread originally started pointing towards.

Full circle, but we seem to be seeing a lot of compounded evidence pointing towards guilt.. and still no tag win for those in the firing line.
Whine whine whine. Do we care if we win or not? Yes. Do we care of your whining? No. If you have a problem then go to MHs, but please stop this pathetic witch hunt. It's quite sad and achieves nothing. I do find it entertaining how you're trying to use the power of propaganda to influence readers that BF is disbanding. We lost one member and that was due to an internal issue which I will not talk about. Also the scan stats end of round will show that angryduck from CT uses a scan script.

Lack of ambition to play for #1 is what's eventually going to kill this game. We played for #1 and we failed. We shan't be as ambitious again as it's just too much hard work to run a tag of 60 in my spare time. I'd happily play how we've been playing prior to this round and reading bitcher's whining. Back to normality!

There are too few alliances that shows ambition. and as I've said, that's what will kill the game. I think it's time to reduce tag sizes or we can just watch the game deteriorate more quickly.

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Unread 1 May 2015, 14:34   #122
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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I am against cheating but I don't automatically subscribe to the view that Clouds is guilty. I was told in no uncertain terms if I saw a certain page - it would prove the guilt and it didn't.
I agree with you, I am of course no longer a MH and cant see the tools etc to prove if Clouds is cheating or not, however, I did witness myself the other day just from an attack on one of our members 4 fleets acting as escorting fleets.. these 4 planets recalled EXACTLY the same time. Now.. I am not questioning BFs organisational skills but even in Legion we didn't manage to get planets to recall with such precision to the exact same second. Seems to much of a coincidence to me. And yes I will be reporting these actions to the MHs before I am told to by your members again as I am sure they will see more via ips and login times etc. behind the scenes. But from a former MH just from the naked eye that's suspicious to me.

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Additionally I am NOT High Council within BlackFlag, My position within the alliance was at first to help with politics and then at mid point to take control of politics. Even when I took control of politics I was/am still not a High Council member. I have no voting power nor control over any other aspect of Black Flag.
I'm sort of confused here about your 'role'. If you have no official authority nor are you a HC how can you be dictating politics to the HC team of the alliance? (ie controlling it) and also speaking on behalf of the alliance to other allie reps? Basically your doing what Forest did in your description.. and when ever Forest came and asked about politics my response would be the same 'Unless you actually have authority to speak to me then this is just a general chat'. So therefore I think you have more responsibility then just running politics.

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Even if it is proven some elements of BF HC cheated, I am not the internet police. Resigning from my post would only done nothing at all and my obligation is to the many members of Black Flag which as others have pointed out are definitely not cheating.
This to me, looks like you know they are cheating but don't wish to admit it with the first few words of the above quote. Correct your not the internet police, however, your still a representative of an allie that could be cheating. In real life if your married to a serial killer, the people don't look at you and think you must be innocent for only been a partner, instead they prosecute you also as surely you would have some idea of this going on. I never stated you had to just leave the alliance however, you also don't have to completely deny this is going on. Instead you can publically force out cheaters and make it known. For the good of the other members of the alliance who are putting in effort without the means of breaking the rules.

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Should I abandon them just because of other people wishes? If I had resigned straight away this round would have been over long ago and you'd all be moaning right now about stagnation instead.
To be honest I am not moaning at all before the usual people appear claiming I am 'whining'. I've found this small 'war' of BF hitting us quite amusing lately. I mean its got you pretty much no where but by all means keep hitting us However, this 'stagnation' you speak of.. wasn't (until the 'block' started hitting the top 2) BF and CT napped to each other? So therefore first and second were not hitting each other? That to me is some type of stagnation..

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As for the scan bot, that's really not my area of expertise. If Black Flag were told by PA Team that it was legal then that's between the BF HC and PA Team. Since I have no planet, I've not had to use scans at all so I've not noticed to it's exact makeup.
To be fair its not just BF using this script so I am not really discriminating against them. The only reason why I did bring it up was due to the Officers of BF openly admitting on this thread they were using it. Now personally I don't understand why Appoco or any of the PA team are allowing this to happen. Its a bot/script from my understanding that is taking away the human element in a planet. So.. why don't we have this type of thing for sending our fleets/recalling fleets? Doing constructions/research? If its legal to allow scans to be instant and removing the human element then surely we might as well just have fully controlled bot planets...



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Whine whine whine. Do we care if we win or not? Yes. Do we care of your whining? No. If you have a problem then go to MHs, but please stop this pathetic witch hunt. It's quite sad and achieves nothing. I do find it entertaining how you're trying to use the power of propaganda to influence readers that BF is disbanding. We lost one member and that was due to an internal issue which I will not talk about. Also the scan stats end of round will show that angryduck from CT uses a scan script.
First of all we are not 'whining.' Second lf all maybe the reason why people keep posting on these boards is because you wont answer a few simple questions? Now, I don't like Butcher at all but the questions/points he asked on page 2 you refused to answer and are most likely true. Ie this second tag (Titans) it had ex BF members in it correct? So, was this due to the BF tag was full? You were also napped in game to this tag from what I gather which also makes people believe that you were again connected to this tag (not just because of 'former' members) Also did you attack with them? (ie any cooperation at all?) If so then this tag alone was a breach of the Support planet rule (If you wish I can lecture you on what a support planet is.. I did invent the stupid rule in the first place) without even bringing in the fact they were closed for bot planets etc.

Its not really 'propaganda' for stating the truth/obvious. You cant honestly tell me, a tag which had former members of your alliance in, that you were napped to ingame with, and cooperated with, that you had no knowledge that they were cheating.. this is why people don't believe you Clouds.

Nor am I trying to say you are disbanding. I simply said people (or person) who have left your alliance have openly admitted you guys are cheating. That's not propaganda or slander when I can provide evidence:

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That said, I just got kicked from bf for complaining about cheating. They are cheating, but as far as I can tell that puts them in the same league as ult and fl. None of you should be proud of your achievements
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Unread 1 May 2015, 14:45   #123
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

The said member did not admit to anything, it was an opinion and not admittance to anything, probably an 'emo' response from having his Slack access revoked for causing internal arguments.

And I have not 'answered your questions' because it is not any of your business but rather an internal / Multihunter concern.

From your ranting, I can only presume that your goal is to degrade BF's reputation (not that we had a reputation to begin with) in the hopes that we'd lose members next round. I will clarify that none of the core will be leaving, and if anyone does leave it will be the randoms we recruited for the sole purpose of playing for #1.
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Unread 1 May 2015, 14:56   #124
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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The said member did not admit to anything, it was an opinion and not admittance to anything, probably an 'emo' response from having his Slack access revoked for causing internal arguments.

And I have not 'answered your questions' because it is not any of your business but rather an internal / Multihunter concern.

From your ranting, I can only presume that your goal is to degrade BF's reputation (not that we had a reputation to begin with) in the hopes that we'd lose members next round. I will clarify that none of the core will be leaving, and if anyone does leave it will be the randoms we recruited for the sole purpose of playing for #1.
My goal is to state the truth. The truth is as follows:

1) A tag called Titans which had 'former' bf members in it was pretty much closed.
2) You were napped to it ingame
3) There was some type of cooperation/tool sharing. So therefore you cant seriously claim you didn't know these were either cheating or bot planets
4) People within the actual BF tag were also closed during this investigation. So therefore were linked to this tag.

The mature response from yourself 'Its none of your business' just shows me you cant reply because this isn't just propaganda is it? You were caught cheating.. and from previous experience this is how people react when caught. (ie throw the rattle out of the pram and try to deflect the issue)

I am not trying to degrade your alliance or stop people from joining it what so ever. I hope BF goes on for many rounds (its nice to see alliances in the game) however, people who lead the alliance and accept cheating is a completely different matter.
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Unread 1 May 2015, 15:02   #125
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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My goal is to state the truth. The truth is as follows:

4) People within the actual BF tag were also closed during this investigation. So therefore were linked to this tag.
Wrong. No BF member has been closed. If you believe otherwise then please provide the coords and nick of said closed members.

You can "state the truth" all you want, the only thing you'll achieve is to degrade BF's reputation, which let's be honest has no effect on the game. People will still work with us due to the player-base being so small. The only damage you'll achieve is for people to stop us winning, and as I've stated before we won't be playing with ambition again.

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Unread 1 May 2015, 15:19   #126
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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There are too few alliances that shows ambition. and as I've said, that's what will kill the game. I think it's time to reduce tag sizes or we can just watch the game deteriorate more quickly.
Speaking sense for once! However, if Appoco finally stops being a failtard, I will conclude that he is so far up your backside that he and the admin team lack the spine to run the game anymore and thus decide that its still not worth playing and spending time on.

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Unread 1 May 2015, 15:43   #127
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
Wrong. No BF member has been closed. If you believe otherwise then please provide the coords and nick of said closed members.

You can "state the truth" all you want, the only thing you'll achieve is to degrade BF's reputation, which let's be honest has no effect on the game. People will still work with us due to the player-base being so small. The only damage you'll achieve is for people to stop us winning, and as I've stated before we won't be playing with ambition again.
The planet most people claim to have been yours was closed.
That you removed said planet from the tag doesnt make it less true.
This is just another proof that you in fact ARE lieing, trying to hide obvious facts.
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Unread 1 May 2015, 15:59   #128
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Speaking sense for once! However, if Appoco finally stops being a failtard, I will conclude that he is so far up your backside that he and the admin team lack the spine to run the game anymore and thus decide that its still not worth playing and spending time on.
You want to reduce the tag size so Clouds can have a competetive tag?
So far this round we have almost recieved as much incs from two tags 14 and 10 members who are playing mainly to FC and SK people as we have from a close to 50 man tag thats been warring us for large parts of the round.

We have had to let many of these SK and FC waves land cus we simply cannot deffend against certain lol waves.
If any one has influence over, or choose to make a troll tag on the side with their spare members, these tags would wreck the round of a 30 man alliance IF you get the tag limits dropped. Even suggesting it is madness
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Unread 1 May 2015, 16:02   #129
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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You want to reduce the tag size so Clouds can have a competetive tag?
So far this round we have almost recieved as much incs from two tags 14 and 10 members who are playing mainly to FC and SK people as we have from a close to 50 man tag thats been warring us for large parts of the round.

We have had to let many of these SK and FC waves land cus we simply cannot deffend against certain lol waves.
If any one has influence over, or choose to make a troll tag on the side with their spare members, these tags would wreck the round of a 30 man alliance IF you get the tag limits dropped. Even suggesting it is madness
Your inability to defend troll tags is down to the ability of your tag...or other incs, which would be reduced if you (and everyone else) had less members...seeing as targetting is more alliance v alliance than gal raiding these days owing to the number of political agreements. So take your drivel elsewhere please
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Unread 1 May 2015, 16:04   #130
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

And to quote a valid suggestion that many agree with as madness shows just how incompetent you are.
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Unread 1 May 2015, 17:29   #131
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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From your ranting, I can only presume that your goal is to degrade BF's reputation (not that we had a reputation to begin with)
It looks like you're quite on track to achieving this goal without the help of AD.

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in the hopes that we'd lose members next round. I will clarify that none of the core will be leaving
I am confident that your conduct in this thread does not do justice to the level of maturity and responsibility of the average Black Flag member. I for one hope to see your tag back again next round.

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and if anyone does leave it will be the randoms we recruited for the sole purpose of playing for #1.
If I were a new BF recruit, I think I would appreciate knowing if my presence in the alliance was appreciated beyond what score I brought.
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Unread 1 May 2015, 19:37   #132
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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You want to reduce the tag size so Clouds can have a competetive tag?
So far this round we have almost recieved as much incs from two tags 14 and 10 members who are playing mainly to FC and SK people as we have from a close to 50 man tag thats been warring us for large parts of the round.

We have had to let many of these SK and FC waves land cus we simply cannot deffend against certain lol waves.
If any one has influence over, or choose to make a troll tag on the side with their spare members, these tags would wreck the round of a 30 man alliance IF you get the tag limits dropped. Even suggesting it is madness
No it's so there can be more competition for #1. Currently it's really only Ultores and CT that shows such ambition, and as you've whined before, if an alliance like BF doesn't care about politics "it ruins the game". There's a simple solution.
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Unread 1 May 2015, 21:35   #133
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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No it's so there can be more competition for #1. Currently it's really only Ultores and CT that shows such ambition, and as you've whined before, if an alliance like BF doesn't care about politics "it ruins the game". There's a simple solution.
There was a 4 man race this round.
Maybe the BF members will go to p3ng/Rogues/BowS next round and one of them can become challengers
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Unread 1 May 2015, 23:02   #134
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
There was a 4 man race this round.
Maybe the BF members will go to p3ng/Rogues/BowS next round and one of them can become challengers
p3ng appreciates the sheer stress of competing (I'm sure they enjoyed this round without it), Rogues are new and they should (in my opinion) build up their core first, and Bows competing? Don't make me laugh!

If anyone steps up next round then I salute them because it's not an easy task.

This round we were spoiled with a 4 man race. In a typical round, it's usually two at best.

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Unread 1 May 2015, 23:17   #135
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
p3ng appreciates the sheer stress of competing (I'm sure they enjoyed this round without it), Rogues are new and they should (in my opinion) build up their core first, and Bows competing? Don't make me laugh!

If anyone steps up next round then I salute them because it's not an easy task.

This round we were spoiled with a 4 man race. In a typical round, it's usually two at best.
This round we were spoiled with 4 man race because there were 4 full tags willing to take the risk necessary for it.
I dont see why Rogues/p3ng/BowS shouldnt be able to be in it if they had more active members
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Unread 1 May 2015, 23:19   #136
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
This round we were spoiled with 4 man race because there were 4 full tags willing to take the risk necessary for it.
I dont see why Rogues/p3ng/BowS shouldnt be able to be in it if they had more active members
I really don't see Bows competing with your big mouth.
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Unread 1 May 2015, 23:34   #137
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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I really don't see Bows competing with your big mouth.
Haha, with my small activity thats what you meant to say?
Its just a numbers game, make the numbers be favourable in your advantage for most of the round, and you got a shot.
R50 for example, around pt800, ND and ROCK had a shot at being in the race in the end, just because they had been lucky with not being targetted heavy.
R52 ND won cus they were doing the right things, at the right time, not because they were overly active or skilled for that matter.
R54 Apprime won with sending out only 3500 fleets total, by far the least ever for a winning alliance
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Unread 1 May 2015, 23:36   #138
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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I dont see why Rogues/p3ng/BowS shouldnt be able to be in it if they had more active members
I dont really see Rogues as a challenger, and neither do you:
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So far this round we have almost recieved as much incs from two tags 14 and 10 members who are playing mainly to FC and SK people as we have from a close to 50 man tag thats been warring us for large parts of the round.
Rogues is surely said near 50 man tag. No complaints as to the comment, rogues attacks are mediocre.
'If they get more active members' could apply to anyone, or a new tag entirely, but the thing is rogues set out wanting to be an active alliance with ambitions, but didnt really get that kind of memberbase. I dont see why it should come to us now when we are established as a somewhat middle of the road ally, rather than when we were a blank slate onto which anyone could project their hopes.
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Unread 1 May 2015, 23:52   #139
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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I dont really see Rogues as a challenger, and neither do you:

Rogues is surely said near 50 man tag. No complaints as to the comment, rogues attacks are mediocre.
'If they get more active members' could apply to anyone, or a new tag entirely, but the thing is rogues set out wanting to be an active alliance with ambitions, but didnt really get that kind of memberbase. I dont see why it should come to us now when we are established as a somewhat middle of the road ally, rather than when we were a blank slate onto which anyone could project their hopes.
Well its all up to the start of the round, if Rogues gets a better start, they can keep the momentum going.
Not that im saying their activity is good enough right now, but it never is in alliances playing from behind.
Looking at R60 we had 6 full tags, and no race for #1.
R59 almost 8 nearly full tags, and no race for #1.
Most good entertaining rounds imho dont have that many allies capable for competing, either because they dont have the numbers or the activity.
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Unread 2 May 2015, 06:59   #140
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

Maybe a new alliance will come along, or one will return, to shake these things up because yet again everyone is desperate to hand the win to ult?

GG Ult, you blocked the game well and as ever, everyone falls for it.

/me wonders off muttering to himself
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Unread 2 May 2015, 10:10   #141
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Maybe a new alliance will come along, or one will return, to shake these things up because yet again everyone is desperate to hand the win to ult?

GG Ult, you blocked the game well and as ever, everyone falls for it.

/me wonders off muttering to himself
if i look at the universe page your alliance is on #1 with a scorelead of 7m

now with the last week starting it shouldnt be so much about the roids, but rather the xp from landing attacks
on a sidenote your still high on avg roids

whining about having lost the round, seems a bit early
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Unread 2 May 2015, 10:17   #142
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by Forest View Post
Maybe a new alliance will come along, or one will return, to shake these things up because yet again everyone is desperate to hand the win to ult?

GG Ult, you blocked the game well and as ever, everyone falls for it.

/me wonders off muttering to himself
sorry, but it was CT and BF that decided to block this round up by going into the round pre-napped in order to kill off ult's chances. There never was any chance for any kind of fluent politics on their end. You can't blame other alliances for not wanting to make deals with CT/BF in such an environment.
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Unread 2 May 2015, 10:42   #143
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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sorry, but it was CT and BF that decided to block this round up by going into the round pre-napped in order to kill off ult's chances. There never was any chance for any kind of fluent politics on their end. You can't blame other alliances for not wanting to make deals with CT/BF in such an environment.
I thought they were basicly naped with everyone else?

On a side note the politics for the top allies was balanced by the look of it
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Unread 2 May 2015, 11:47   #144
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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sorry, but it was CT and BF that decided to block this round up by going into the round pre-napped in order to kill off ult's chances. There never was any chance for any kind of fluent politics on their end. You can't blame other alliances for not wanting to make deals with CT/BF in such an environment.
BF and CT did not decide to "block" pre-round. It was mutually agreed that we'd try and keep Ult down casually which was done by hitting some of their forts.

And to address Forest's whining, if CT weren't so focused on trying to bury BF and going off hitting Rogues / HR while we were getting smashed, then you would most likely have our support now. It was selfish and we don't reward disloyalty.

Ironically, CT is on their own.
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Unread 2 May 2015, 11:48   #145
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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I thought they were basicly naped with everyone else?

On a side note the politics for the top allies was balanced by the look of it
I didn't say it wasn't balanced among the top allies. so balanced it took a big involvement from smaller allies to get where we are now.
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Unread 2 May 2015, 12:04   #146
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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BF and CT did not decide to "block" pre-round. It was mutually agreed that we'd try and keep Ult down casually which was done by hitting some of their forts.
Potayto-Potahto. Fact is there was very little room for Faceless to operate in when it came to CT/BF, as neither of you ever wanted to hit the other. In the end that seems to be the downfall for all of us.

In my pre-round prediction I indicated this rounds politics could very well be a fluent environment, in which case I pegged BF for having a very good chance of victory. I think the lack of willingness to engage in such politics immediately killed off that chance for BF, given the fact Faceless ran into things with BF very early on that was always gonna be a repeated and long fight.
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Unread 2 May 2015, 12:40   #147
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

Ult for once have played a political blinder, as they played a decent game of divide and conquer between Black Flag and Conspiracy. They have always been a decent military unit and they'll be deserved winners if they get over the top here.

Conspiracy stood back while Black Flag were burning, and the current state of play is the consequences. Hell, I'm not even suggesting Conspiracy needed to go full on here, but to do nothing against their main threat (Ult) and practically avoid them for an extended period of time is pretty weak. The best hope for Conspiracy and Black Flag was to keep the round where it was a tossup where any of four alliances could win for as long as possible. If one of the four alliances went out of the race, it was always likeliest to be two against one, because whoever got knocked out would have no incentive to help. If roles between Black Flag and Conspiracy were reversed, would Conspiracy be rushing to Black Flag's side to provide aid? Logically the answer is no.
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Unread 2 May 2015, 13:39   #148
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Question Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by lokken View Post
Ult for once have played a political blinder, as they played a decent game of divide and conquer between Black Flag and Conspiracy. They have always been a decent military unit and they'll be deserved winners if they get over the top here.

Conspiracy stood back while Black Flag were burning, and the current state of play is the consequences. Hell, I'm not even suggesting Conspiracy needed to go full on here, but to do nothing against their main threat (Ult) and practically avoid them for an extended period of time is pretty weak. The best hope for Conspiracy and Black Flag was to keep the round where it was a tossup where any of four alliances could win for as long as possible. If one of the four alliances went out of the race, it was always likeliest to be two against one, because whoever got knocked out would have no incentive to help. If roles between Black Flag and Conspiracy were reversed, would Conspiracy be rushing to Black Flag's side to provide aid? Logically the answer is no.
Makes me wonder if you are just guessing or playing.
CT did hit ult whild the block was on BF.
BF being crushed was to be expected.
If they had not had members raging over HCs cheating, and perhaps not choosed to hit p3ng when the block was going on ct, they would still been in the game.
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Unread 2 May 2015, 13:44   #149
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
This round we were spoiled with 4 man race because there were 4 full tags willing to take the risk necessary for it.
I dont see why Rogues/p3ng/BowS shouldnt be able to be in it if they had more active members
Been there and done it (twice in a row) got killed with our tactic choices the third attempt. We are happy re-building and causing problems
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Unread 2 May 2015, 13:49   #150
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Re: mass NAPing- yawn boring

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Originally Posted by Willzzz View Post
Been there and done it (twice in a row) got killed with our tactic choices the third attempt. We are happy re-building and causing problems
Well i doubt you will have a easy round again next round if you choose to stay as a small tag.
So going for a full tag would perhaps be more tempting
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