R32 stats and next round :p

[Patrikc]

First of all, I applaud your honesty and openness.

Second, do you have more problems reading the new stats (beta ones) than you have with, say, last round's stats?

I think that new players won't quit over more complicated stats. Either they like the aspect of the game, or they don't. How difficult they are to understand only plays a role in how long it takes to get a good grip on them, not whether they'll even bother to try and understand them.

[Crantor]

Originally Posted by Patrikc

First of all, I applaud your honesty and openness.

Second, do you have more problems reading the new stats (beta ones) than you have with, say, last round's stats?

I think that new players won't quit over more complicated stats. Either they like the aspect of the game, or they don't. How difficult they are to understand only plays a role in how long it takes to get a good grip on them, not whether they'll even bother to try and understand them.

Honestly, (I think) last round stats were easier for me. Too many fleet types to interact this round. 3 different attack fleets possible, SKS at FI/CO level. wow.

Give me simpler stats at least every once in a while

[[JungleMuffin]]

Its a shame these stats have been altered so much from the proposed set of last round.

As far as alot of ships and ease of play go, i believe with a good set, they arent mutually exclusive.

[Psi_K]

Originally Posted by Crantor

Give me simpler stats at least every once in a while

You get it every other round by what we've seen in the last several rounds.

[Crantor]

I'll just keep plugging along and decipher it.

[Onim]

did you guys actually notice that together with the armour decrease, also the damage is reduced?

But while saying that, you can easily see that ter cr/bs is pretty strong. All cr/bs is strong, of every race tbh. and with defships like the avenger , the harpy/phoenix combo and the beetle (which is still v strong, even with the nerfed init) we'll gonna see a lot of ppl going CR/BS. And i dont blame em

[isildurx]

Well, theres been plenty of rounds before when CR\BS looked strong on paper, yet people insist on whoring fi\co in order to have their eta 8 attackfleet. I guess only time will tell whats going to happen this round.

[lokken]

Originally Posted by Munkee

Last round zik was pretty much balanced yes. It required effort to play imo and a little luck to make sure you ended up with some co or fi pods. I will say that any changes to lower their efficiency/armour will completely **** them .... i came t60 with zik btw and it took some luck in a not so great gal.

I think this is important. Zikonian last round required a bit of luck and a bit of skill, and they didn't really become a serious factor in the top rankings until late on. This is exactly how Zikonian should play, whereby that any solid player handling a zik planet reaps the rewards late on and heads for the top rankings. Why? Because they're the toughest race given that their initiative is non existent.

I think last round's stats were phenomenally good - I am no stats expert and they were easy for me to get my head around, understand in terms of a calc and they enabled several different strategies. The races were actually playing different games, at the top level at least.

Stats should always be pretty clear and simple in my view, so it's pretty obvious what works, what doesn't work. Some have argued this eliminates creativity, but I disagree. If anything stats that are too complex just result in the same old lol I have more defence and more activity than you strategy of everyone going for the same stuff to play it safe. This is for two reasons: first of all because it's difficult to balance them and secondly because people just can't be bothered to understand them.

What results is that it just cannonballs into one class because you have to have it to defend anything. By keeping it simple you let people be creative in how they balance their fleets (do I keep my fleet evenly split between particular classes? do I focus on one? what am I going to build for defence out of class of my main roiding fleet?). Activity in this game rewards itself, the stats should not attempt to exacerbate this gap, and judging from this discussion, they clearly do. The stats should not be some arcane table that no one understands; instead make them accessible so that newbies can just pick up and play and give each race a decent roiding fleet mixed with some vulnerabilities - the best players will always find ways to have stronger fleet combinations.

So yeah, think about what you want to achieve with stats, because I think there are some basic principles that are always going to apply.

[Grog]

Looking at it & reading the discussions going on, does anyone at all think that terran fr, xan fr, cath de or ETD de are reasonable choices for a roiding fleet?

There's 3 pod types but for some reason there are huge intentional holes left in all of the fr/de fleets to make them virtually pointless for anything other then def fleets.

It seems like the only real options for roiding fleets are fi/co or bs/cr.

What's the point of 3 pod types if you're going to hamstring an entire factory class?

[Tiamat101]

Grog i wish you would see this for what its really worth. Yes Cath de's have a hole. Big deal what fr's will shoot them back? None. SO that means there hole is pointless the fr/de classes are attack fleets for a reason. The fi/co are def fleets except for Etd's which own.

Other than that its a good balance in the fr/de mega class works well make fortressing harding which imho is better.

A point that was adressed earlier about ship armor and damage, especially when it comes to fi/co. There is NO difference between Co and Fi's damage or armor really. In past rounds Co have always been 15-30% more damage and 20-30% more armor than fi's. Well this round its more like 1% there is Almost no difference. all xan fi/co has 5 damage and almost the same armor for the higher cost. cutlass has 1 more armor than the xan fi's and tradionally zik ships are bigger and more armored than xan ships. Why the armor decrease. Damage is a whole different story. Smuggler? wtf, same stats as the cutlass with more cost and is a Co thus making it primary on almost everything. Why the reduction give the Smuggler 9 or 10 armor and change its damage to 10-12. That will balance out the co/fi difference. Also the Devestator is a fi it has 9 armor and does more damage than all the fi/co out there. That needs to be fixed.

As regards to zik this round they are getting screwed because of the decrease and a/c and d/c there ships cost too much. you dont have to change there armor/damage just reduce the cost 10-20% and they will be playable. When they steal things currently its almost always a bad trade because of the value per ship.

[JonnyBGood]

For the love of ****ing god I would accept any piece of shit at this stage if someone would just finalise the ****ing stats.

Yes Cath de's have a hole. Big deal what fr's will shoot them back? None.

The drake, the locust and the lancer actually.

[Makhil]

3 ships for 0 loss def, and at Alliance ETA, it's not a hole it's San Andreas Fault (and no, San Andreas didn't make the stats).

[[JungleMuffin]]

lol @ Hut, nice one xD

Yeah, i blame San Andreas too. Its all his Fault.

[Psi_K]

Originally Posted by Tiamat101

Also the Devestator is a fi it has 9 armor and does more damage than all the fi/co out there. That needs to be fixed.

Since JBG already raped you on the Cath hole, I'm going to point this out.
Do you realize that you don't just look at armor and damage numbers without looking at cost?
Yes, the Deva has 9 armor.
No it doesn't have the highest FI armor or Ratio.
Yes, it does 8 damage.
No it isn't even close to doing the most damage of the FI/CO's.

[isildurx]

When can we expect final stats?

[Yorga]

Originally Posted by isildurx

When can we expect final stats?

is this another swine flu joke?

[Tazmaniandevil]

not loving the Phantom cant you bring them back to fi/co or would that totally mess the stats :P

[cknight725]

Its high time someone with a singular vision takes back control of stats instead of the "hot potato" method. Round to round its completely up in the air how to play this f'ing game.

[Deathrow]

i loved etd last round for the steal options it gave, the focusing on one class was awesome.

this round its completely turned up side down again and etd stealing is made exactly like zik stealing again. With fr steals after fi/co and de between bs/cr, itll mean steals of all kinds again and a whole load of crap ships you cant use thatll just use up your value.

for me a really big loss, i dont see much fun in etd/zik this round

i tried explaining earlier what i liked about etd last round but i see my opinion doesnt really matter, nor do other opinions for that matter. This thread is just about who has the biggest flamethrower

[Gio2k]

Stats are final. God save us. /o\

[Patrikc]

Zik has gotten a boost since yesterday by the way, for those that hadn't noticed yet.

Cutlass +1 armor
Smuggler +1 damage
Thief +1 armor
Bucc +2 armor
Pirate +5 armor
Marauder +10 armor
and SK got 5x cheaper

[isildurx]

Still doesnt make them very playable though does it?