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Unread 26 Mar 2014, 23:58   #1
Tiamat101
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Attacker/Defender Mods

So, I've been thinking of a way to make stats a bit more interesting. I just don't know how hard it would be to program this.

The best way to explain it would be ships get certain buffs or debuffs when attacking or Defending.


For example from R56 stats:
Beetle: When defending has -2 guns and -1 init. Meaning that it would be defending at init 2 and 6 guns.

Or conversely: Tzen When attacking gains -2 init and -2 damage.

It would be another way to make stats a big more interesting.
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Unread 27 Mar 2014, 08:13   #2
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Re: Attacker/Defender Mods

I think the majority of players barely/or don't understand the shipstats already this might confuse them more
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Unread 27 Mar 2014, 08:26   #3
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Re: Attacker/Defender Mods

"might" isn't the right word, the complexity of analyzing stats would be close to impossible for most.
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Unread 27 Mar 2014, 09:39   #4
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Re: Attacker/Defender Mods

There are only a few people in the community who care about the stats. There are equally few who have the ability to objectively analyze them. The union of those two groups is the half dozen people who frequent PS. Making the stats more complicated does nothing for anyone who's not in both groups (complement of [care union ability], for any set theorists following along).

This game does not need more spreadsheet.
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Unread 27 Mar 2014, 10:22   #5
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Re: Attacker/Defender Mods

Let's not even mention balancing stats like that. No thank you!
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Unread 27 Mar 2014, 11:06   #6
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Re: Attacker/Defender Mods

I think simplifying things like stats would be the way to go.
Some alliances has well thought and well calced strats for each round, but it seems to me most allies will fall between not having enough people able to read stats and make up a suitable tactic for their group, or have too many "self thinking" members who enjoy setting up their planet themself.
Too me it seems that its only been Spore the last two rounds who have had the best strat implentation, but they also been far far from perfect regarding their ability to stick to the "allie plan".
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Unread 29 Mar 2014, 05:42   #7
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Re: Attacker/Defender Mods

I'm not sure how "simplifying" the stats further would help anything. The only way I can see that "working" is to hide certain parts of the stats set so as not to confuse people unless they go looking for the full version.

IE, bring back guns for all ships, agility, weapon speed, etc. Simple version would show you initiative, damage, and the cost of the ship.

Advanced version would show you all the stuff we cut out so many rounds ago, where all ships (or most) had more than one gun, plus all of the above-mentioned stats you could spend hours thinking about if you wanted to. A/C, D/C.

EMP resistance would have to fall somewhere in between.

(Probably bad examples):

The Torpedo should have been "good" in r3, but the agility and weapon speed meant it's damage was basically irrelevant. Had a good "threadnaught" on the Tactics page about it that cut my chops (and I'm sure some others) on PA stats "design" pros/cons.

r4 we had a Terran (or 'War') CO (Phoenix I think) with pods, and that was it.

The Sentinel in round 5/6/8 whatever with it's t3=ALL meant you only needed to build that, plus pods, and win. Twatting down BS with mass, cheap, kill-anything FI.

Space-brick Frigate forts have made a few appearances. Or DE forts.

I can see both sides of it as my rambling here shows. I just can't see how one, or the other, does anything to "fix" a seemingly broken--and fundamental--aspect of the game.

War or Science, anyone?

Passing the ball to mz on this one.
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Unread 29 Mar 2014, 08:14   #8
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Re: Attacker/Defender Mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
I'd say that A/C and D/C are more relevant to players than Arm/Guns/Dmg. If there were an E/C, we could do away with ERes too. Could rename them to Aeff, Deff and Eeff, though, or something similar.

Perhaps 'basic' (only names, targets, init, effs), 'advanced' (all current columns, minus race and guns) and 'xml' (all current columns, including race, minus guns) versions of the stats page would be useful.
(You could add an even more simple interface that leaves out effs as well. And when I said 'guns', I meant 'dmg', because PA ships don't have 1 gun with X dmg, they have X guns with 1 dmg, despite what the stats imply. Overshooting is interesting, but I don't think it's fundamentally required.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Whenever people look at Dmg or Arm, the overwhelming likelyhood is that they're doing it wrong. There is only one legitimate use case for looking at those low-level specifics: you're making a tool that simulates combat. So I stand by my point. Effs are vastly more relevant to players than Dmg or Guns or Arm. It's not even the right thing to look at when you're making stats! (They're write-only.)

To people just signing up (which is a completely different audience than 'established players'), the stats are entirely irrelevant. Here's everything a new player needs to pick a race: "Ter is normal, Cat disables ships, Xan ships have cloak, Zik steals, and Etd does a bit of everything". Done! It's a bad thing that new players aren't given this rudimentary bit of information, yes, but it is absolutely a good thing that new players aren't shown the ship stats. Not the current version, and not even the basic version I described in my previous post, not until they have a light factory.

No game should ever present its potential audience with a spreadsheet, even if said game is mostly a spreadsheet.
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Unread 29 Mar 2014, 08:41   #9
TheoDD
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Re: Attacker/Defender Mods

Just wonder who will dedicate their time to make balanced stats round after round. Or would the idea be to make it random? Where as one or two races are SUPER compared the others, and those that can read stats can take advantage of this?
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