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Unread 6 Dec 2004, 12:43   #1
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Some way of inferring what ingal defense is

Currently it's possible, and in my opinion too easy, to use in-galaxy fleets to scare off attackers. As long as you don't have your N-type ship obviously out on a newsscan, it's possible to use multiple fleets to reuse the same ship. For example, if 2 planets in a galaxy get FI incoming, a player with a good amount of Rogues can cover both ingalaxy with the same fleet. Neither attacker can risk landing, because even if only one of them takes the losses it's not worthwhile.

This means that you must either catch all ingalaxy defenders offline, with their fleets out, or attack with waves. Obviously the former is down to luck, and the two latter only large alliances have the resources to manage.

What I want is not a fool proof 'military scan', but some way of inferring what the ingal defense is. And I don't mean ETA differences on shiptypes ingal.
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Unread 6 Dec 2004, 12:57   #2
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Re: Some way of inferring what ingal defense is

Hmmm interesting idea don't know whether i like it or not because the advantages on both are pretty good.
A lot of ppl use fake defence nowadays and its a pain if you are attacking but a godsend if defending.
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Unread 6 Dec 2004, 18:07   #3
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Re: Some way of inferring what ingal defense is

I already feel that the fleet scan is too powerful- it undercuts a lot of the tactical oppurtunities, judging from eta, it is possible to get a reasonable inkiling of what going on. I can see the potential for the scans, but i think it is already difficult ebough to cover a gal mate with "fake defence" at 2AM when there are only a few of us online to do so.
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Unread 6 Dec 2004, 23:34   #4
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Re: Some way of inferring what ingal defense is

Take a gamble now and then. Fake def is fun.
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Unread 8 Dec 2004, 11:24   #5
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Re: Some way of inferring what ingal defense is

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermodynamics
I already feel that the fleet scan is too powerful- it undercuts a lot of the tactical oppurtunities, judging from eta, it is possible to get a reasonable inkiling of what going on.
Not for ingal fleets. All that was asked for was a similar way of getting an idea about ingal def.
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Unread 18 Dec 2004, 10:06   #6
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Re: [Discuss] Some way of inferring what ingal defense is

Don't like the idea
I like how it is now
besides fake Defense doesn't really work cuz if your the attacker you just jpg scan them 20 secs before the tick and then recall if their still on their way ... most fake defense senders will already have recalled ...
or open the missions page in the background and get ready to hit recall, then scan with a jpg probe about 7secs before tick and do the same thing, recall if their still on their way, or continue if the target has no defence.
Get it? so if you got defence, go through to about 20secs before you recall your attack incase they are fake def ...
What is this, a mentoring forum?
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Unread 18 Dec 2004, 16:44   #7
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Re: [Discuss] Some way of inferring what ingal defense is

Why should fake defense recall at all? Fake defense usually refers to sending ships that look like serious def but are something different that won't really hurt the attacker (because serious def was not available at the time). Naturally, if you fake defense you choose ships that won't get damaged if the attacker doesn't fall for it and lands.
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Unread 18 Dec 2004, 21:14   #8
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Re: [Discuss] Some way of inferring what ingal defense is

Or you send a lot more than just ships that won't be hurt to try and scare the attacker, also it's not always possible to send even ships that won't be damaged.
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Unread 19 Dec 2004, 03:24   #9
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Re: [Discuss] Some way of inferring what ingal defense is

I personally don't think that this in itself is currently a major problem. I think it is part of a much wider problem, which is defence is simply too easy. This round has been very defensive, landing an attack is rare, most people in big alliances have gone for weeks without caping a roid, even when attacking every day. I think this is something that needs addressing, and I think the in-gal issue is a minor part of that, if anything.
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Unread 19 Dec 2004, 12:07   #10
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Re: [Discuss] Some way of inferring what ingal defense is

A way to solve it would be ingal bs/cr = eta 7, de/fr eta 6, co/fi eta 5. No def must be able to be snet after eta 5, as it currently is, as that would make activity more important again. Knowing u can go out at eta 4 is good.

I however don't want the ingal def system changed, and the above is just a possible solution should u all decide to change it.
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Unread 19 Dec 2004, 20:09   #11
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Re: [Discuss] Some way of inferring what ingal defense is

making different ETA's ingal would work, but then again a gal should be able to help a galmate, ppl still get roids so I dont see why this is a big problem..
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Unread 19 Dec 2004, 20:19   #12
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Re: [Discuss] Some way of inferring what ingal defense is

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bashar
most people in big alliances have gone for weeks without caping a roid, even when attacking every day
Is i really that bad? I seem to have got roids about every 3rd day, but often from 2 targets in one night too. And i'm Xan, which to me does not seem like the best attack race this round. So imo your view is over-pessimistic, but maybe i was more lucky than the average guy.
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Unread 19 Dec 2004, 21:05   #13
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Re: [Discuss] Some way of inferring what ingal defense is

16 of the top100 planets capped roids today, and 4 of them lost roids. That's quite low compared to other rounds. Though the nearing end of the round scares ppl to land too, ofcourse. I admit thats not too hectic, but if this day is an average day, it would mean a top100 planet caps roids every 6/7 days roughly. Dependable on luck, race and alliance ofcourse

I think Bashar is slightly excaggerating, unless he knows a lot of very unlucky players
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Unread 19 Dec 2004, 21:34   #14
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Re: [Discuss] Some way of inferring what ingal defense is

oh common ya moaning about people sending fake def?!?!

what if i sent a fleet to attack you and make out its frigs when its fi its just the same thing, fake def is a pain but a fun part of the game
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Unread 20 Dec 2004, 14:08   #15
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Re: [Discuss] Some way of inferring what ingal defense is

Well, i think this is where tactic comes, i attacked soem one with frigates, he had about 8k friendlies going to him, i scanned all of them and checked waht ships do they have, some1 had some drakes, which my chimeras can crush, some1 had about 3k arrowheads and 300 Broadswords, so i just took the chance and kept on my attack, and whooo, he was sending Vassharraks, and i got some big roidZZZZZZZ .
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Unread 22 Dec 2004, 23:28   #16
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Re: [Discuss] Some way of inferring what ingal defense is

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
A way to solve it would be ingal bs/cr = eta 7, de/fr eta 6, co/fi eta 5. No def must be able to be snet after eta 5, as it currently is, as that would make activity more important again. Knowing u can go out at eta 4 is good.

I however don't want the ingal def system changed, and the above is just a possible solution should u all decide to change it.

Different eta's wouldnt really solve the problem all u have to do is put one BS ship in a fleet of 699 fi, and it will look like the 699 Bs and 1fi u sent elsewhere.

Tho the eta thing would be ok, if it was seen late, then fake def would be obvious if it was launched at the incorrect ETA.
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Unread 30 Dec 2004, 20:15   #17
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Re: [Discuss] Some way of inferring what ingal defense is

Wouldn't this reduce the imortance of JGPs, thsi way, you can just make a news scan.
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Unread 27 Jan 2005, 15:23   #18
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Re: [Discuss] Some way of inferring what ingal defense is

I think defence can be more inferable through better stats design, having said that we don;t want it to be perfectly inferable - declined
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