Hi LCH

[lokken]

Originally Posted by Chika

Everyone is looking at the entire ND/1up thing from the wrong angle. Everyone is also looking at the entire LCH/CO. deal from the wrong angle also. If ND was 1up, and vice verse, ND would be #1. It wasn't about ND making 1up kings, or 1up making ND kings. It was simply ND/1UP hitting LCH, and 1up doing 4-5 gals a day, and ND obviously doing less. Thats what it was. What it boils down to is activity. If ND had the same activity as 1up, then ND would easily be #1. Everyone keeps saying these silly analysis, when it is simply one thing. And the fact that LCH are Bozo's also helps a lot to.

we've had far more incoming than your bunch, fyi.

And no we aren't as good as 1up - the only reason we are where we are is because LCH et al were meant to be intelligent and go for 1up instead of ND so ND could stumble to a victory, instead every alliance under the sun piled in on ND, and there was very little we could do about it. 1up should be damn grateful ND could hold out so well, or else it would have been isolated, with everyone going all in on you.

There comes a point of incoming where eliteness counts for nothing - Fury in r6 were prob the best alliance in the game, but got nobbed to relative oblivion. This rounds victors are there partly through skill, and partly through the choice of another alliance's targeting, that no one had expected.

[Cayl]

Its been my experience across the last two rounds that plans that rely upon LCH making intelligent decisions usually do not come to fruition.

[Chika]

Originally Posted by lokken

we've had far more incoming than your bunch, fyi.

And no we aren't as good as 1up - the only reason we are where we are is because LCH et al were meant to be intelligent and go for 1up instead of ND so ND could stumble to a victory, instead every alliance under the sun piled in on ND, and there was very little we could do about it. 1up should be damn grateful ND could hold out so well, or else it would have been isolated, with everyone going all in on you.

There comes a point of incoming where eliteness counts for nothing - Fury in r6 were prob the best alliance in the game, but got nobbed to relative oblivion. This rounds victors are there partly through skill, and partly through the choice of another alliance's targeting, that no one had expected.

FYI i know good and darn well that you guys got hit more than us. If i was LCH I would have hit you guys to. They were not getting any roids any other way. Fighting us, got them dropped and not growing. At some point they were like " Fk it lets attack ND" Nooone said anything about "elite". I simply took the butter and sugar coat off of it that everyone seemed to be using. ND is why 1up are where they are. LCH's subpar authority is why they are doing what they are doing. We all know this. And beleive me, 1up had its fair share of incoming. We defended against it well. Simple.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Chika

FYI i know good and darn well that you guys got hit more than us. If i was LCH I would have hit you guys to. They were not getting any roids any other way. Fighting us, got them dropped and not growing. At some point they were like " Fk it lets attack ND" Nooone said anything about "elite". I simply took the butter and sugar coat off of it that everyone seemed to be using. ND is why 1up are where they are. LCH's subpar authority is why they are doing what they are doing. We all know this. And beleive me, 1up had its fair share of incoming. We defended against it well. Simple.

well said Chika, fully agree with what you just posted.

[The_Fish]

Originally Posted by Chika

FYI i know good and darn well that you guys got hit more than us. If i was LCH I would have hit you guys to. They were not getting any roids any other way. Fighting us, got them dropped and not growing. At some point they were like " Fk it lets attack ND" Nooone said anything about "elite". I simply took the butter and sugar coat off of it that everyone seemed to be using. ND is why 1up are where they are. LCH's subpar authority is why they are doing what they are doing. We all know this. And beleive me, 1up had its fair share of incoming. We defended against it well. Simple.

1up is better than ND, no question. However, like Lok said, you owe a lot of your victory to LCH and ND. Had all the incs that ND got been directed to 1up, the universe would be looking very different now. And you should be grateful ND held out so well.

LCH's attitude of '1up are defending, lets attack ND with more fleets' is why they are now 2nd, and unless that attitude changes significantly, they will never win a round.

[General Martok]

Let's be realistic. 1up's plan to start with a reducted membercount and downplaying their hand has worked. The "top" alliances saw too late that 1up was a threat, and by the time they saw, it was too late, and their relative mass (30% more members) didn't outweight the superiour organisation and great activity of 1up. You can't just blame 1 alliance of "making 1up king", all top alliances lacked the cunning or will do look into the future and do something about it prematurely. The only king and kingmaker here is 1up. Not LCH by avoiding 1up, nor ND for nap/allying them, nor Mistu, HR or any other alliance.

[Kjeldoran]

What some pple often forget is that efficiently targetting 67 members CAN be harder then targetting 99 members because chances are those 99 members are less spread over different galaxies.
It's like we have with angels aswell, hardly any of our 35 members are in shared galaxies (some are ofc).

This makes it technically harder because you basicly have more galaxies to take into consideration.

This ofc has nothing to do with why lch attacked ND and not 1up etc, I just thought I should mention the fact that smaller numbers doesn't nesc mean easier to kill.

And Chika, to answer your pm: My post wasn't meant sarcastic if that's what you're wondering. I do think lch tried 1up and failed and then decided to go for the "easier" roids which were ND in this case (mind the quotes, didn't say ND = easy roids).

The Fish got a point aswell, with that additude, the best goal for lch is to end 2nd. Nonetheless I guess that's better then ending 3rd or less. But aiming to end 2nd and not 1st imo is a very lame approach.

[Chika]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

1up is better than ND, no question. However, like Lok said, you owe a lot of your victory to LCH and ND. Had all the incs that ND got been directed to 1up, the universe would be looking very different now. And you should be grateful ND held out so well.

LCH's attitude of '1up are defending, lets attack ND with more fleets' is why they are now 2nd, and unless that attitude changes significantly, they will never win a round.

Fish I would reply to your thread, but I ALREADY said 1up owes it's current position to ND/LCH.
I said it, this is something we know. You repeating this is like telling someone they will take a shyt sometime today. WE KNOW THIS.

[Legator]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

1up is better than ND, no question. However, like Lok said, you owe a lot of your victory to LCH and ND. Had all the incs that ND got been directed to 1up, the universe would be looking very different now. And you should be grateful ND held out so well.

LCH's attitude of '1up are defending, lets attack ND with more fleets' is why they are now 2nd, and unless that attitude changes significantly, they will never win a round.

The_Fish, ive so much respect this round for ND like i never had before - in my opinion - compared to the numbers of your incomings and especially the way ND acted politically they impressed me more than any other alliance (besides 1up ofc!). None was able to shit on your shoes and that gives you alot respect and honour (nice word).

Your not anyones pe0ns and did what you think was right. you were not swimming with any stream and if lch/hr/vsn etc. would have hitted us the outcome would have been very very different.

you should be proud on your balls and on the fact that your alliance is still doing that good while the circumstandings were quite bad.

you people rock.

[lokken]

I think it's fair to say that:

- ND received incomings that no other alliance could have handled. We got badly hurt, but came out with a lot of credit for hanging on in there.
- LCH's decisions, for whatever motivations, are still baffling.
- This round ND have not promoted, encouraged, allowed or facilitated fencesitting. I believe we're the only the alliance to do this, unless someone can prove to the contrary.
- ND have performed at a level above what would people would normally think they were able of this round.
- ND still needs to improve so it can win rounds by its own determination, rather than by chance. I hope they strive to improve, shall improve, and continue the belief that they can be successful and play in the character which certainly I believe the game is meant to played.

I have no problem with 1up winning. If it's not ND, rather them than people who don't even try to win and stop us from having a chance of winning as a result of their lacking ambition.

[Zh|l]

I hope the ND membership can appreciate the tough times they have gone through and come out of it toughened. ND suffered badly at the hands of WaC in round 2, where back then it once again stood up to the #1 alliance.

ND has performed admirably this round, and like Legator my respect for them has grown - though that started in r10.5. Perhaps rather than huddle together and throw mud, other alliances should look at ND and see how they have managed to improve themselves.

[Henck]

wow alot pro NDers here....

@lokken
just 1 thing so from the how much alliances are there atleast 100+ on planetarion, and I'm sure there are alot not with fencesitting planets
and how do you know no1 could handle NDs incomings.
who is saying they have that much and what is much, all this is what you think, or do you have HC access to all alliances in PA to check it.

[jerome]

Myabe it was how every other alliance has fallen much sharper when receiving that sorts of inc?

[lokken]

Originally Posted by _ryzekiel_

Myabe it was how every other alliance has fallen much sharper when receiving that sorts of inc?

MISTU got fagged up on a comparable scale and plummeted - as for considering the level of incomings, I used plain experience of seeing terrible, terrible incoming in PA in my various positions in the game, the previous records of those under comparable incoming, and that ND is one of the better alliances in this game for sending defence without getting it killed (that's not to say we don't make mistakes). Plus lets add the simple judgement that: 1up have lost a few percent on the odd night, we've had the heaviest incoming this round, therefore 1up would probably have got hurt to a comparable level were LCH and co ever to go all in on them.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by lokken

I think it's fair to say that:

- ND received incomings that no other alliance could have handled. We got badly hurt, but came out with a lot of credit for hanging on in there.
- LCH's decisions, for whatever motivations, are still baffling.
- This round ND have not promoted, encouraged, allowed or facilitated fencesitting. I believe we're the only the alliance to do this, unless someone can prove to the contrary.
- ND have performed at a level above what would people would normally think they were able of this round.
- ND still needs to improve so it can win rounds by its own determination, rather than by chance. I hope they strive to improve, shall improve, and continue the belief that they can be successful and play in the character which certainly I believe the game is meant to played.

I have no problem with 1up winning. If it's not ND, rather them than people who don't even try to win and stop us from having a chance of winning as a result of their lacking ambition.

ND was not the only alliance who have not promoted, encouraged, allowed or facilitated fencesitting. Angels, for instance, didn't either.

[Chika]

Originally Posted by lokken

MISTU got fagged up on a comparable scale and plummeted - as for considering the level of incomings, I used plain experience of seeing terrible, terrible incoming in PA in my various positions in the game, the previous records of those under comparable incoming, and that ND is one of the better alliances in this game for sending defence without getting it killed (that's not to say we don't make mistakes). Plus lets add the simple judgement that: 1up have lost a few percent on the odd night, we've had the heaviest incoming this round, therefore 1up would probably have got hurt to a comparable level were LCH and co ever to go all in on them.

You stay trying to down play that 1up got incoming dude. 1up got incoming from LCH and CO also.
NO LCH did not grow uber when they attacked you.
NO 1up did not have it lightly.
YES LCH chose to hit ND rather than 1uP.
YES 1up is currently on top because of ND's help and LCH bloopers.
NO noone is not going to sit here and act like 1up didn't get hit.
I put it plain and simple, you seem to be on this Funny campaign that ND were the only people attacked hard. YOU ARE NOT.
YES you guys did a great job defending and not dying, like other so call "Top alliances" I admire you guys for that. I don't admire lokken acting like when LCH attacked 1up they were smurfs, and when they hit ND they were SUPERMEN.

[lokken]

I don't see how LCH are supermen; I've pointed out that they merely changed their approach once they went for ND. I merely intimated that when LCH et al finally did decide to go all in and disregard defence for the sake of attacking, they probably could have produced a similar effect on 1up with the amount that they sent at the time i.e. they made an error of judgement. Going to attack 'all in' is a bit different to attacking on a normal day's strategic attacking in a war because of the manner that the attack is carried out.

I intimated they went for a last gasp suicidal tactic by disregarding their own defence and giving up a #1 spot (when they previously thought not to) and getting many alliances at the same time in a focused strike on ND, as it looked very much as a 'last resort' attack from my point of view. Look at the attacks that are going on around the universe right now - that's exactly what happened to ND, but when it was us, LCH was bigger than the both of us individually, and was certainly more of a force than they are now.

[Neferti]

I have to agree with what Lok says. I know my opinion isnt really valued, however my own experience shows me that ND has had much heavier incs than usual this round compared to the last 2 rounds. There are only two possible explanations for this: either there's been a lot more attacks going on in general in the universe this round (unlikely, i think, but not impossible); or a higher proportion of attacks are targetting ND. I'm not going to go into *why* they'd target us, or how well we did in handing it; this is just the way i've seen the hostile situation.

[mazzelaar]

I have to stick my two cents in here about a couple of matters.

ND have been outstanding, no argument here. In response to the "we have had more incoming" then I think thats fairly close between 1up/ND and not quite as one sided as you might think. 1up have had the kitchen sink thrown at us a few times this round, most notably more than 2million incoming ships from in excess of 100 different fleets over 6 hours of waving not getting a bean for less than 200k losses per roid.

In short I think it's fair to say both ND and 1up have had comparable incoming with 1up probably taking the greater hit in terms of amount of coordinated incoming from several alliances, whilst ND win the prize for most consistent heavy incoming.

Both alliances have made an exceptional job in covering what has been sent at them. My hat goes off to the members of ND for carrying on while suffering nightly batterings.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

I have to stick my two cents in here about a couple of matters.

ND have been outstanding, no argument here. In response to the "we have had more incoming" then I think thats fairly close between 1up/ND and not quite as one sided as you might think. 1up have had the kitchen sink thrown at us a few times this round, most notably more than 2million incoming ships from in excess of 100 different fleets over 6 hours of waving not getting a bean for less than 200k losses per roid.

In short I think it's fair to say both ND and 1up have had comparable incoming with 1up probably taking the greater hit in terms of amount of coordinated incoming from several alliances, whilst ND win the prize for most consistent heavy incoming.

Both alliances have made an exceptional job in covering what has been sent at them. My hat goes off to the members of ND for carrying on while suffering nightly batterings.

I think another difference is when everyone aimed for 1up, there was still this "denial" additude and the "no we don't block or do cooperated attacks" additude.
But later in the round when BOTH sides became more then obvious and when lch and friends started to go for ND, they no longer bothered to hide it and just admited they're mass hitting ND.

I'm neither 1up nor ND so to estimate the incs of both is something I will not do (a troll would do that even when he knows he got nothing to base his opinion on), but this is how it looks to me.

And to both 1up and ND, well done handling with such incs but don't idolize is either, other alliances have done the same in previous rounds and other alliances will do the same in future rounds.

Tbh, does it matter which of you both got most incs? What matters is that 1up should loose avg score and avg roids to make me happy (j/k ofc)

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

I think another difference is when everyone aimed for 1up, there was still this "denial" additude and the "no we don't block or do cooperated attacks" additude.
But later in the round when BOTH sides became more then obvious and when lch and friends started to go for ND, they no longer bothered to hide it and just admited they're mass hitting ND.

I'm neither 1up nor ND so to estimate the incs of both is something I will not do (a troll would do that even when he knows he got nothing to base his opinion on), but this is how it looks to me.

And to both 1up and ND, well done handling with such incs but don't idolize is either, other alliances have done the same in previous rounds and other alliances will do the same in future rounds.

Tbh, does it matter which of you both got most incs? What matters is that 1up should loose avg score and avg roids to make me happy (j/k ofc)

I'm not entirely sure which bit of my post you're trying to poke holes in. It matters not who got the most incoming, it's merely a discussion on the matter. In terms of when people hit 1up it was only a week ago for our most significant incoming, so that point falls apart tbh.

In addition, who is talking about previous rounds? I wasn't idolising anyone. I just commented on a job well done.

Well done FAnG for covering incoming X rounds ago. Feel better now?

[Judge]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

Just want to stress that I am quite pleased 1up have won, no-one has deserved a win more in any round imo. With only 67 members from tick 1, hitting the #1 alliance all round, deserves a lot of respect.

Just a shame it wasnt the same 67 members they started with.

1up Stole the round by stealing the top players from everyone else,

To the shame of those that Jumped, well done you showed how much intestinel fortitude you really had.

<edit typo's>

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Legator

The_Fish, ive so much respect this round for ND like i never had before - in my opinion - compared to the numbers of your incomings and especially the way ND acted politically they impressed me more than any other alliance (besides 1up ofc!). None was able to shit on your shoes and that gives you alot respect and honour (nice word).

Your not anyones pe0ns and did what you think was right. you were not swimming with any stream and if lch/hr/vsn etc. would have hitted us the outcome would have been very very different.

you should be proud on your balls and on the fact that your alliance is still doing that good while the circumstandings were quite bad.

you people rock.

Get up off the floor and stop crawling leggy, it doesnt become you ffs

[Synthetic_Sid]

Originally Posted by Judge

Just a shame it wasnt the same 67 members they started with.

We didn't start with 67 members - so it would be very hard it for us to end with the same 67 members.

[Legator]

Originally Posted by Judge

Get up off the floor and stop crawling leggy, it doesnt become you ffs

everyone gets what they deserve, ND does deserve it - has nothing to do with crawling.

Honour to those who fight - honour to those who do not accept fencesitters.

[MegaNova]

Originally Posted by Judge

Just a shame it wasnt the same 67 members they started with.

1up Stole the round by stealing the top players from everyone else,

To the shame of those that Jumped, well done you showed how much intestinel fortitude you really had.

<edit typo's>

evul 1up stole some of the precious pr0nstars members
i blame 1up for making pr0nstars collapse

[Lei~]

pr0nstars was never really playing tho...

[SteInMetz]

I think its pretty funny how everyone is "arguing" about who had most incs etc..
I can say fairly that everyone has had their share, maybe some had more than others, but does it matter?
Whats mattering here is how well they can stand against those incs, if you only get one fleet incoming each night, and dont still manage to cover it, it can be called heavy incomings.
And i know damn well 1up has had their incs too.. GJ to 1up at TeK btw, that owned.
So now my girls, stop discussing it

Oh, and thank you to everyone that respects ND for what we are, and what we stand for.

[aNgRyDuCk]

Originally Posted by LocknLoad

Looks to me as ND are the gutless ones.

We have sent fleets at every alliance in the top 7 other than 1up, who we chose to stay friendly with... this includes, LCH, HR, MISTU, VsN, Absolute,and so on......how exactly can that be considered "gutless"? We've more than proven (and not just in this round) that we're up for the party when it comes to hitting alliances who are hostile to us.

Originally Posted by Chika

Everyone is looking at the entire ND/1up thing from the wrong angle. Everyone is also looking at the entire LCH/CO. deal from the wrong angle also. If ND was 1up, and vice verse, ND would be #1. It wasn't about ND making 1up kings, or 1up making ND kings. It was simply ND/1UP hitting LCH, and 1up doing 4-5 gals a day, and ND obviously doing less. Thats what it was. What it boils down to is activity. If ND had the same activity as 1up, then ND would easily be #1. Everyone keeps saying these silly analysis, when it is simply one thing. And the fact that LCH are Bozo's also helps a lot to.

gotta agree with that to a point..... If ND really truly gave a shit, and spent 20 hours a day playing pa, and had balls to the wall hardcore players, we'd have wone more than this round..... thing is, #1 is fun, but it ain't everything, my point, is that we have fun, and no matter where we finish, at the end of the day, we goofed off, laughed at idiots on AD and in game, and had a freakin ball.



As to the argument about who had the most incomings, I can speak for ND in that I saw the fleets hit our defense channel nightly, we covered probably 70% of our incomings, but we got hurt to.....in war, there is death, we've always understood that. (thankfully here, no one actually dies, no families lose loved ones, etc) Anyways, I'm quit sure 1up had plenty of incomings as well, basing this on what I've read, and the amount of times I pm'd their defense bot this round, lol, truth is, everyone has had incomings, so this argument really doesn't carry that much weight. Have we had what I would consider excessive incomings? sure. Our DC's have done a terrific job, working with what they've had to work with. Our activity has been ok this round, not on the level of 1up ofcoarse, but what I would call decent. I certainly would have liked to see better activity at times, but I'm sure every HC member in this game can say that at some point or another. Our members impress me every round. They don't give up, they fight with their last ship, and they learn and grow as a team every round. This is one of the reasons I originally applied to ND. It is a community that I'm proud to be a part of, and the personalities are great to be around, there'ds a little bit of everything there. It's fun, and that's what it is supposed to be. Win or lose, we have a great time.

1up has kicked ass for 2 rounds, this time with 2/3 of the member base of their opponents, and my hats off to them.

ND will learn from the round, and we will be just a little better next round, and the round after.

Did we play our politics right this round? (putting aside the fact that I was one of those decision makers) yes, I believe we did, we did the right thing in our opinions, and at the end of that day, that's all that matters

[Legator]

Originally Posted by Lei~

pr0nstars was never really playing tho...

ever thought that he might have used sarcasm .....

also we were really playing !









atlesat a few of us.

[Forest]

Of course u wouldnt know leg was, looking at his planet

[Legator]

Originally Posted by Forest

Of course u wouldnt know leg was, looking at his planet

ffs ! there was need for this comment !


still 3 days left to raise my rank tho :P