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View Poll Results: What race will you choose?
Terran 7 14.00%
Cathaar 9 18.00%
Xandathrii 18 36.00%
Zikonian 16 32.00%
Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll

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Unread 15 Mar 2004, 08:16   #1
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Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

Firstly, what race do you intend on going?

Secondly, the remainder is based on these stats: http://jpaweb01.planetarion.com/stats.pl , which are current as of yesterday evening .

As with all the other rounds, i begin by saying: "A balanced fleet has some capability in all areas, but is good in none." Take heed. Unbalanced fleets are often alot harder to stop than 'balanced' ones.

I'll begin by doing a quick rundown of all the types of ships.
Terran
Fighters
Both the Banshee and the Revenat arent all that great at killing their targets (Fighters and Cruisers respectively), though for FI they have some pretty good armour. I'd say that it would be worth trying to get heavier units to fill these rolls. The Cerebus kills FI some 20% better with 20% more armour per resource, and the Hades kills equal to the Revenant but again has roughly 15% more armour.

Frigates
The Incubus (a frigate) is your astropod this round, and is thus a vital component of your fleet. The other frigate in the Terran arsenal - the Medusa - provides very effective armour flak (some 56% more armour than the Incubus), however it completely lacks something resembling firepower. For those of you who have been around a while and can remember the R6 Drake, then the Medusa highly resembles them. Nevertheless, Medusas are a must for all Terrans - even if they cause about as much fear in your enemies as a Cathaar .

Cruisers
The Hades and Cerebus will be very useful ships for Terrans this round, as they constitute the majority of the race's firepower and thus can be useful defensive and handy offensive units (primarily to escort your FR). Nice armour on them as well . These two ships will form an important part of your fleet.

Battleships
The Vesuvius does the most damage per resource of all Terran units, however targeting battleships means that it's usefulness comes into question. Ie, it might kill well, but only IF there are enemy battleships present. I believe that the jury will be out on these behemoths untill we can see whether battleships will become popular.
As for the Olympus, in terms of killing power its about the middle of the road when compared to other structure killing units, however i've never been much of a fan of killing sturctures so i cant vouch for them (someone who has used them extensively in the beta can comment here ).

Cathaar
Fighters
There isnt much use for the Banisher and Vanquisher in a cathaar fleet this round with exception to early in the round where Banishers are the only thing between you and a Xan getting free roids (that is, untill you can build Stalwarts ). Banishers arent great at killing and their armour isnt the best either - but its all that you have so no whinging .

Frigates
Advocates are your only FR classed units, and they target Cruisers quite effectively (though interestingly, the Xan Eryx kills CR just as effectively as the Advocate stuns them - i wonder if this is correct...). If you are interested in blocking Crusiers when you are a cath, Advocates are the way to go.

Crusiers
Cruisers will form the major part of your Cathaar fleet, as Paladins (your pods) are complemented by Vanguards (which form your only BA protection) and Templars (which will bloody the noses, perhaps, of all those Frigates flying around whilst providing armour flak for your pods).
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Unread 15 Mar 2004, 23:34   #2
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Re: Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

Since I haven't played the beta, I'll look through the stats and get back to you.
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Unread 16 Mar 2004, 00:13   #3
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Re: Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

it is a really hard decision on races for me this go around. If round started right now, i would have to go zik. But the more i think about what race to choose, i start to lean towards Cath.
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Unread 16 Mar 2004, 01:46   #4
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Re: Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

what no xan??
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Unread 16 Mar 2004, 09:16   #5
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Re: Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

I'll have a hard time picking them, all 4 of them are screwed over.... Only 6 killships a race ffs
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Unread 16 Mar 2004, 14:27   #6
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Re: Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

i agree with Martok here, with the old Race capabilities back in the game some more units would have been nice (aiming at Co-class and 1or2 targetclasses a ship instead of 1).

I however do not mind the current stats that much, its a good step in the right direction imo =)


I will play zik, mainly cuz i also did in beta and enjoyed using their subvert ships alot, its funny to see how those ships completely mess up a battle

Terran would definatly be a no-go for me cuz of their crappy FR flak in terms of fighting power (and the armor of the pod itself is crap aswell).

Cathaar is nice, but i've played them to much during the EMP days so i want something different this time.

And for Xan... they are evil. especially if there is no way of finding out what kind off ships a Xan has. It was explained that you would have to look for Combat Reports in News scans.. but news can be deleted, which gets rid of that information source. Though its not that hard to know whats coming, it would be nice to be able to make a rough estimation of the incs (i mean escorting ships, non-fi class). Imho Xan should lose the option of deleting their news (or news can only be removed if its more then 24 hours old), that would atleast even the odds a bit.
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Unread 16 Mar 2004, 15:44   #7
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Re: Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

News has never been "deleted" as such, it just gets hidden from the user but still shows on News Scans.
(Unless this is a r10.5 change, I didn't play the beta...)
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Unread 16 Mar 2004, 17:30   #8
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Re: Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYMM
News has never been "deleted" as such, it just gets hidden from the user but still shows on News Scans.
(Unless this is a r10.5 change, I didn't play the beta...)
hmm in that case....
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Unread 16 Mar 2004, 23:24   #9
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Re: Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

XAN will have an amazing ability, being able to stay cloaked the entire round. But hey, when u request defense for XAN incoming, a sure bet is to send anti fi, because every race is lame with only one pod class. I don't care what the other ships do... just move ur anti everything else unless u want to totally kill him (which is usually the case) keep ur anti fi at home and get anti fi defense. oWnAGe
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Unread 17 Mar 2004, 03:10   #10
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Re: Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
XAN will have an amazing ability, being able to stay cloaked the entire round. But hey, when u request defense for XAN incoming, a sure bet is to send anti fi, because every race is lame with only one pod class. I don't care what the other ships do... just move ur anti everything else unless u want to totally kill him (which is usually the case) keep ur anti fi at home and get anti fi defense. oWnAGe
But that's the same for every race - if you have Terran or Zik incoming you'll need FR defence, if you have Cath incoming you'll need CR defence etc.

I still reckon a set of stats with 10 classes of ships (with around 2 or 3 ships per class per race) would be mad fun - imagine all the possibilities for fleets!
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Unread 17 Mar 2004, 13:27   #11
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Re: Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

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Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
But that's the same for every race - if you have Terran or Zik incoming you'll need FR defence, if you have Cath incoming you'll need CR defence etc.

I still reckon a set of stats with 10 classes of ships (with around 2 or 3 ships per class per race) would be mad fun - imagine all the possibilities for fleets!

Would be very, very nice I hate being limited
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Unread 17 Mar 2004, 14:30   #12
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Re: Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
Would be very, very nice I hate being limited
Indeed would be ace, 4 races 6 ships sucks All fleets in uni will resemble each other... Was it that hard to ADD 2 ships for constr/pod targetting, leaving the old 8 ships intact? (with a little tweak ofc )
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Unread 17 Mar 2004, 14:48   #13
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Re: Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
XAN will have an amazing ability, being able to stay cloaked the entire round. But hey, when u request defense for XAN incoming, a sure bet is to send anti fi, because every race is lame with only one pod class. I don't care what the other ships do... just move ur anti everything else unless u want to totally kill him (which is usually the case) keep ur anti fi at home and get anti fi defense. oWnAGe
now only GET the def, that will be for some ppl a harder job then for others
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Unread 17 Mar 2004, 22:47   #14
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Re: Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Martok
Indeed would be ace, 4 races 6 ships sucks All fleets in uni will resemble each other... Was it that hard to ADD 2 ships for constr/pod targetting, leaving the old 8 ships intact? (with a little tweak ofc )
Quote:
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now only GET the def, that will be for some ppl a harder job then for others
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Pretty much. the majority of the fleets will be the same. I guess it will all boil down to, who can get defense, and who can't.
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Unread 19 Mar 2004, 22:04   #15
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Re: Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
Pretty much. the majority of the fleets will be the same. I guess it will all boil down to, who can get defense, and who can't.
thats pretty much what happens every round anyway, most fleets are the same, part from maybe zik, but it ALWAYS comes down to who gets the roids and who doesnt....
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Unread 20 Mar 2004, 13:07   #16
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Re: Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colt
thats pretty much what happens every round anyway, most fleets are the same, part from maybe zik, but it ALWAYS comes down to who gets the roids and who doesnt....
True, however at least in R7/8/9/9.5 all races (excpt zik) had a choice between two pods - their special pod and the basic FR pods.

Granted, Terrans and Xans shouldnt have used their FR pods (as the Peg/Dem and Xan FI/CO fleets were superior), but i did see a couple of xans do surprisingly well with a FR fleet (even though it couldnt target FI - go figure ). With the Cathaar, there was a very difficult choice between Beetle/Roach/BW/Pod and Tarant/Mantis/(was there a third?) fleet - both of which were viable and effective.

Why was it so hard to do something similar again this round? or in future rounds?

Long live Strategy! \o/ etc

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Unread 20 Mar 2004, 14:03   #17
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Re: Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

I finally plumped for Xan this round - more on "gut feeling" than anything else. I usually choose my race carefully after following the detailed discussions that we always have on this forum before a new round.

My final choice was between Cath & Xan and I thought that the advantage of stealth will outweigh the initiative of EMP - especially as Cath seem to be *very* vulnerable to Fi attack before they can start pumping out their BS EMP ships. Also Xan need only Fi & Fr to cover all possible incoming - Cath appear to need 3 ship classes.

I'll probably find that I've completely overlooked something obvious. :-)
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Unread 20 Mar 2004, 22:11   #18
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Re: Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas
I finally plumped for Xan this round - more on "gut feeling" than anything else. I usually choose my race carefully after following the detailed discussions that we always have on this forum before a new round.

My final choice was between Cath & Xan and I thought that the advantage of stealth will outweigh the initiative of EMP - especially as Cath seem to be *very* vulnerable to Fi attack before they can start pumping out their BS EMP ships. Also Xan need only Fi & Fr to cover all possible incoming - Cath appear to need 3 ship classes.

I'll probably find that I've completely overlooked something obvious. :-)
Why try and cover all classes yourself, just max out on the Fi and get def for what you dont target Specialization \o/

Ultimate Newbie: true, and the xan FR really does work, over in ******** i was top10 thanks to my fr roiders, b4 i ended on wrong side of the war and was killed
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Unread 21 Mar 2004, 02:38   #19
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Re: Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colt
Why try and cover all classes yourself, just max out on the Fi and get def for what you dont target Specialization \o/
That's normally the plan - but there are always occasions where you find yourself on your own, especially now that we only have 55 minutes to organise defence. I like to be as self-sufficient as possible (not to mention being as unattractive a target as possible). Xan seems to offer the best chance of achieving both.
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Unread 21 Mar 2004, 08:22   #20
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Re: Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

I like the odd tactics that can occur from unexpected Zik forces. Also, with covert ops and more need for information before a raid hits, playing a support role could prove very benificial for the whole gal.
Also, xans seem to be the ownz until mid game when cruisers and battleships start rolling out. Then i predict things will get rocky for them unless they haev supior numbers or support from another race type (i.e.Terrans busting a cath's Fi deffences)
More ships are not nessicary. Most fleets boil down to 3 or 4 actuall ships in mass quantity. Also if you did want insane varity (which again would not be nessicary) adopting a 'make your own' ship system would be very interesting.
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Unread 21 Mar 2004, 12:36   #21
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Re: Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

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I More ships are not nessicary. Most fleets boil down to 3 or 4 actuall ships in mass quantity. Also if you did want insane varity (which again would not be nessicary) adopting a 'make your own' ship system would be very interesting.
Mine will boil down to just 2 ships, a pod and its flak
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Unread 22 Mar 2004, 07:27   #22
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Re: Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

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Originally Posted by Colt
Mine will boil down to just 2 ships, a pod and its flak
I would agree with you, only if that flak is useful for defence for your alliance .

reminds of R5&6 actually - BW & Pods (though i did build some Tarants in R6 to keep some of those evil Hydra away. In the end it didnt help me though - i lost some 6000BW in a tick to hydra at the end of the round )
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Unread 22 Mar 2004, 09:46   #23
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Re: Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

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Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
I would agree with you, only if that flak is useful for defence for your alliance .

reminds of R5&6 actually - BW & Pods (though i did build some Tarants in R6 to keep some of those evil Hydra away. In the end it didnt help me though - i lost some 6000BW in a tick to hydra at the end of the round )
It will be a source of defence for any anti-FR thats needed, aslong as im online to give it
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Unread 24 Mar 2004, 12:15   #24
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Re: Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

OMG I'm sooooo gonna roid xandathrii with my scythe.. Immense, they borrow better than wasps froze almost Unreal, I think they are a tad overpowered
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Unread 24 Mar 2004, 18:19   #25
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Re: Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

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Originally Posted by General Martok
OMG I'm sooooo gonna roid xandathrii with my scythe.. Immense, they borrow better than wasps froze almost Unreal, I think they are a tad overpowered
Maybe - maybe not.

They certainly can't prevent Xan from taking roids away from you unless you have numerical superiority - which would mean that you couldn't build much else.

And it would be a brave Zik who only builds anti-Fi.
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Unread 24 Mar 2004, 20:59   #26
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Re: Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

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Originally Posted by ArcChas
Maybe - maybe not.

They certainly can't prevent Xan from taking roids away from you unless you have numerical superiority - which would mean that you couldn't build much else.

And it would be a brave Zik who only builds anti-Fi.
That's logical, and works with all races.. Terran CR fleets can get through @ emp easily, Cathaar CR fleets with a nice amouth of templar can own a xan (i doubt many xan build the CR en masse). Xan can fighter-flood a zikonian, and a zik rapier-frig fleet can own a terran heavily, a zik scythe fleet owns xan, and a scythe/broadswordfleet owns cathaar. You just have to decide which race(s) you want to roid, zik only sucks vs (equal) zik, mutual borrowing of ships...
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Unread 25 Mar 2004, 16:15   #27
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Re: Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

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Originally Posted by Ripur
I like the odd tactics that can occur from unexpected Zik forces. Also, with covert ops and more need for information before a raid hits, playing a support role could prove very benificial for the whole gal.
Also, xans seem to be the ownz until mid game when cruisers and battleships start rolling out. Then i predict things will get rocky for them unless they haev supior numbers or support from another race type (i.e.Terrans busting a cath's Fi deffences)
More ships are not nessicary. Most fleets boil down to 3 or 4 actuall ships in mass quantity. Also if you did want insane varity (which again would not be nessicary) adopting a 'make your own' ship system would be very interesting.
Midgame? after 150 ticks everyone playing serious will have cr/bs unless they are xan... cath esp had cr/bs around tick 100... a cath with bs is basicly unroidable for a xan alone. Any sane xan will build anti cr cruisers..... albeit late. zik can roid anyone, but fleet combo for def/att will be hard... clever attackers can roid zik for no losses, that is fact. Subing ships ROCK in attacking, but you come up too short in def imo... esp against xan. Overall, looking at targeting, cath will have a hard time if the other races build cr´s, xan only have one anti fr ships, but in return no race has an anti fi frig... medusa can´t be used for attacking zik or a cath with many cr´s , leaving the main terran flack with mostly only smaller terrans or xan with less fr protection to roid.. Xan have no chance of roiding cath with battleships, xan roid tik easy, I see xan having an easier time finding targets.. cath roiding cath is clear, same is zik´s with the right ratios can roid/damage any race, except maybe zik the balance is 'kinda' there, but to me the targetting favour xan slightly.. kinda makes up for the shit research time
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Unread 28 Mar 2004, 23:40   #28
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Re: Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

Don't even bother with Terran they are absoulbty usless, the only chance a Terran fleet has against another race is if it out numbers the other race greater than 2:1 and that will resulty in massive losses even so.

Terrans need something good about their fleets: They aren't the cheapest, they aren't the fast firing, they arn't the heavist armoured, they arn't the most powerful, they haven't even got an special abilities. Talk about naff!! Could do with something else, maybe huge firepower or armour.

A very annoyed Terran!
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Unread 2 Apr 2004, 23:50   #29
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Re: Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrNick152
Don't even bother with Terran they are absoulbty usless, the only chance a Terran fleet has against another race is if it out numbers the other race greater than 2:1 and that will resulty in massive losses even so.

Terrans need something good about their fleets: They aren't the cheapest, they aren't the fast firing, they arn't the heavist armoured, they arn't the most powerful, they haven't even got an special abilities. Talk about naff!! Could do with something else, maybe huge firepower or armour.

A very annoyed Terran!
WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!!! Maybe you should look into your strategy as a terran, as mine is very definately working, if i outnumber my target 2:1 even a terran 1/2 of my size, i lose not much at all, infact im roiding a 600k zik tonight for a combined loss of 60 FR, whereas he loses all his...i think they are good and underestimated and are glad that you think they suck, just means more targets for my pretteh FR fleet...
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Unread 3 Apr 2004, 12:57   #30
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Re: Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

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Originally Posted by Colt
WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!!! Maybe you should look into your strategy as a terran, as mine is very definately working, if i outnumber my target 2:1 even a terran 1/2 of my size, i lose not much at all, infact im roiding a 600k zik tonight for a combined loss of 60 FR, whereas he loses all his...i think they are good and underestimated and are glad that you think they suck, just means more targets for my pretteh FR fleet...
you're obviously attacking a Zik who didn't build (much) BS then... There are allways exceptions, allways targets with bad fleetratio's.. I only have a few dozen Claymores, but they convert roughly 200 frigs. That would mean you would have to kill 200 of your own frigs, while those 200 also fire back, killing another 60 or so.

AT least, that is if those 200 subverted frigs can be cargetted, as i assumed. though bcalc sais they don't die. In that case terrans can get quite cheap roids on a zik with a frig bash fleet (wiping the rapiers with low init). Haven't seen bcalc yet with this fenomenal.
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R1: ??:?? | R2: 51:6 | R3: 37:12 | R4: 186:13 | R5: 13:17 | R6: 1:25
R7: 15:14 | R8: 34:4 / 52:10 ¤ | R9: 16:2 | R9.5: 34:6 / 41:6 ¤
R10: 2:2 | R10.5: 15:4 | R11: 28:8 | R12: 22:9

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Unread 3 Apr 2004, 21:18   #31
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Re: Race and Fleet Composition R10.5

Absolutely true, his fleet was crap, consisted of 13 claymores, and bout 400FR, easily dealt with, but i was trying to get the point across that Terrans aren't half as useless as ppl make them out to be, though i could have done it better i admit :P
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