The Darker Side of Planetarion - Wrath

[Zh|l]

The dark side is quoted as being "seductive" within the space fantasy known as Star Wars. Sources state that the light side embodies peace, knowledge, and serenity whilst the dark side encompasses fear, anger, and aggression. From this very basic definition it is all to easy to attribute the dark side to Wrath, but that is mere image for a war game. To truely attribute Wrath or any other alliance to the 'dark side' you would have to reflect its actions into the general sphere of things. Naturally the dark side must be evil, but was Wrath evil? Many within it were just members who proved to be loyal and complete orders without question which is not necessarily evil.

Evil is not always easy to recognise. An innocent act may ultimately result in great suffering. An act of revenge may save countless of lives and the pure of heart can lash out in anger. Evil may lurk beneath a mask of virture. Whether an act is evil or not often boils down to a question of motivation and motivations can be hard to identify. Hatred, vengeance, pride, envy, jealousy and cruelty are all possible motives that can be attributed to the dark side but again simply feeling these emotions does not necessarily make them part of the dark side. So how can we determine whether someone or indeed, an alliance in this game is truely evil? You hear about it all the time, it is a tool to demonize an alliance as it can surely help keep the attention of your own alliance in return. Fury and Legion were often targetted especially by Xanadu who had their knightly virtue image - and an image that it was to 'save the game'.

I however will not attempt to categorize alliances into good or evil, black or white or any such definition. Such is not my right, but I can share some thoughts upon Wrath, an entity I partly created and thus come to a conclusion upon Wrath itself and indeed myself.

Let's begin as I share totally biased and zealous thoughts upon this subject. I won't ask for your patience for me to reach a conclusion because I may not reach one that is satisfactory to you but it may help reveal part of my character and my portrayle of things. I do not claim that everything written is 100% correct and true in context of the game, but since I perceive things in a roleplay light I generally attribute things to such an 'acting environment'. So if you wish to read my ramblings, then read on...

Rapier

Ah, the humble beginnings of what was the best ever recruitment wing ever under the Fury alliance were not something I look back upon regulary. The pain to think about what had happened too Fury during r4 is a stain upon my memory, an ink blot upon my belief in Fury being the best alliance in this games history but alas, it is needed to figure out Wrath's creation.

Fury after r4 was a mess, there was no doubt about it. It has already been mentioned on these boards, but many don't truely appreciate how much of a mess Fury really was. To give a true extent to the problem a seperate channel was originally set up just for the 'core' of Fury incase the main alliance collapsed, but in general activity was at an all time low and Fury membership numbers were not great. We however, did survive r4 and Sid in his shrewd manner had managed to secure Fury's place in the political ladder. I find it amazing to this day in how he pulled that off, but he did. Fury Provisional had failed but in all fairness it never received enough attention from command - many of Fury's greatest players for the latter rounds came from this recruitment project, but on all command related accounts it was a failure. Thus a new project was to be set up - a seperate recruitment alliance in something akin to the earlier CpV, Dominion or Sith. Meth was the first to hear of this and to be involved in the project which many people have found shocking. I already stated before that when I was asked by him to help out I was not exactly fond of the idea. I was a Fury Officer then and thought I was much more use to Fury where I was. To set up something away from the Fury community scared and repulsed me.

This is where the first sign of the 'Dark Side' comes in. It was hinted that there would be a higher rank available if I was to be involved in Wrath. This was quite interesting for me - power is seductive, and I wished to help out Fury. Fury needed a good recruitment drive to rebuild after r4 and with Meth being so keen to do things without the necessary red tape that had plagued Fury during r4, I was becoming convinced. I wanted to work with Meth again since we had been a good team during the last round. So the project began.

With a rough command drawn out, we first needed an identity. A name suggested by Lokken was used, a breach of Fury security in revealing the project details to someone not Fury, but he had experience with Sith so it was a necessary breach.

Project Rapier was born. Now, this was the birth of what is known today as Wrath. Was it in any way evil? No. The recruitment alliance was needed by Fury to rebuild thus the motivations were clearly nothing to do with negative emotions. The only slight sign of the Dark Side was in my acceptance as I was made a Fury Executive (although Meth was not). I gained a position of power and I liked that.

Anger

It is pointless for me to describe the entire setup phase. It is obvious that Rapier was changed to Wrath before recruitment of members began and a core was formed. The core were built upon and Wrath became operational. Nothing within that hints at anything dark or evil, Wrath made no pacts or deals to gain members bar the obvious requirements for Wrath to be in a Fury controlled galaxy or for Wrath to have control of the galaxy. (There were quite a few of 'Wrath galaxies' during r5.) Zilch relevance to the topic at hand so I will move swiftly on to a considerable way through Wrath's history. (Note this is still in r5 however.)

Anger is symptomatic of frustration. Stress without a suitable means of release will result in tension. Tension can result in violent behaviour, aimed at relieving the frustration all at once. Funnily enough a quote from Star Wars about anger is the following:

Originally said by Yoda
"...fear leads to anger..."

And Yoda was quite right in saying this. Fear is a common factor that brings on anger. The fear of failure can create huge surges of anger within people.

What does this have to do with Wrath? Everything. For Wrath to fail would have meant to fail Fury and thus fail those who had trusted to give you that position of power. To say this did not create stress upon me would be a total lie, but Wrath looked so professional and so organized didn't it? How on earth could it fail?

Wrath command was small. Really small. For an alliance that would rival some of the major alliances in terms of strength and power it was way understaffed. Wrath had 3 Executives, 1 Communication Officer, 1 Admin Officer, 3 or so Military Officers and that was it. There were no recruitment officers - all recruitment was done through myself and Meth in a rather archaic system of two email inboxes and an utterly ridicolous admin system I devised that had a code in two parts - one was the code for wrath r5 known only to the Executive whilst the second part was a unique number to that applicant. Now imagine taking away Meth from this along with the Military Officers being unable to cope and in general military having no direction. The threat of failure looms closure just creating more stress.

Then take away some of the Military Officers and you can see how extremely short staffed Wrath was becoming. Needless to say more officers were promoted and a new Executive was made (the rather unknown but brilliant guy who went under the nick known as WonderBra and was one of the original Esthar in Fury.)

Now imagine me delegating my tasks to the only original Executive that remains, a guy known as Borric, so I could take a needed break. Then imagine my horror when Borric quit Wrath upon the day my break was to begin. Anger set in. The fear of failure was rife. I felt betrayed and the possibility of Wrath crashing down was a real possibility.

This leads me nicely onto...

Hatred

The target of hatred is quite clearly an enemy. They become the source of all the things he despises and of all the ills that plague him. To his thinking, the object of their hatred conciously attempts to thwart him. But it is not a personal vendetta; he has a right and even a duty to destroy him and is thus accompanied by a sense of righteousness.

This all perfectly fits my opinion of Borric around the time of his betrayel and 'alliance hop' to Legion. I despised Borric so much during that time of my career - there was nothing more that I wanted than to ruin him and his life within Planetarion. I made attempts to sabotage his acceptance into Legion, and even tried to gain support within the Fury command to make a move to stop Borric's admittance into Legion. It would make it so much easier to get rid of him for good then. My efforts failed, but it spurred me on. I was not going to fail Fury over some traitorous scumbag. The oh so precious ally called Legion could have him. I would get my revenge when Wrath had fulfilled its duty to Fury. When Fury was strong enough again I would have ample opportunity to wipe Borric's planet in every round thereafter in petty revenge for his actions.

His betrayel of me would never be forgotten and so my grip upon Wrath tightened. It had now become much more personal for me to succeed.

Suffering

The war had been won. Wrath was in a safe and prosperous position. The drilled Fury hopefuls were forced to work together to take down large targets and grind our enemies to dust. Wrath's victims were depersonalized - a planet was nolonger goverened by a player. There was no 'need' or 'requirement' for me to remotely consider that my ruthless actions were affecting people and their ability to love the game. They were mere objects. Tools - to be used or destroyed as I liked.

In this case, it was simply to create a tighter bond within Wrath and formulate groups of people working together with little personal gain. It was for the greater glory. Fleet catches, wave attacks etc became much more common. Most of the 'public Wrath attacks', those given out in the member channel, were kill missions with very little roids to gain. This was to secure our dominance for Fury and its allies but it was also a tool to simply monitor activity.

It was still not enough however, I needed a better test for Wrath and its members. A fairly new high ranking alliance existed that held no bonds to Fury and would provide such entertainment. Although I could easily place it here I will give a new section for it. NFU like all other planets - was simply an object to me. It's fate was unimportant.

I wanted to flex the military muscle of Wrath and flex I did...

Aggression

To act out a desire simply to see blood is definately a trait of the dark side. The war upon NFU was definately aggression. Probably the quickest ever victory between two alliances, NFU were informed in a declaration of war given by myself to some Officer in their public channel. It was received and everything seemed to proceed as planned. I retained a sense of honour in informing NFU and giving them time to prepare defenses. Fury knew of this political movement and generally was not to take any part in the war. (Although some of its members would inevitably be involved in defending fellow Wrath galaxy mates and I did have to seek permission to do so from Sid. Fury could have easily denied such a war.)

NFU surrendered before Wrath launched a single attack, but I would not call it off. Wrath launched as planned and I ordered the complete slaughter of NFU without mercy or regret.

Most definately evil. I had no wish to cause suffering, but my motivation was simply to use NFU as a test for Wrath's capabilities and to provide better activity data. However, this was not the only reason that NFU was chosen...

Vengeance

Borric's betrayel still rested within me, and it did fuel my decision to target NFU in particular. There were reports of some Fury members, most notably Sakera and Pies being involved in NFU more than they had let on to Sid. After Borric, my tolerance for any sort of traitors or treasonous acts was non-existant.

The inner and probably most darkest reason to target NFU was to expose them as traitors to Fury. The destruction of NFU was icing on the cake. Not only had I given ample proof for Cayl to remove them, but their 'new home' had been ravaged.

A fitting event for Wrath to live up to it's name, if rather short-lived.


Greed

However this was not enough. Activity data was still unsatisfactory and stagnation was ripe. I wanted more. I wanted something else to test Wrath with.

Deep down, I wished to test Wrath against three opponents. These were: Thieves&Pirates, VeA and Legion itself. Not all at once naturally, but in a slow evolution. It would have been more beneficial to remove the threat of VeA and accidently catch Legion offguard before moving finally onto T&P itself.

Why those three? Simple. Hatred. Vengeance. Pride and obviously Greed. VeA would have been easy pickings - I simply wanted to bring to rest talk that VeA was equal to Wrath. Needless to say my joke request for a 'friendly' war between the two was denied. Legion would thus never be approved without full Fury backing, so it all went onto the backburner - but I was very willing to do it. I wished to give some payback to Legion for r4 and prove once more why Fury was 'better'. My hatred had to fester however, although I would like to point out that this was to do with the Legion alliance and image itself - not people. (I consider Rampage one of the best HC I got to work with ever.)

Thieves & Pirates was a different matter entirely. They attempted to use their influence within Fury to have their members promoted into Fury regardless of Wrath command. I found most T&P members admitted into Wrath unwilling to help out Wrath itself. They did defense to other T&P members without reporting to Wrath and it was the same in attacks. Wrath received criticism for its system being unable to adopt reports of members doing external run attacks, but I believed and still do that all members of Wrath should have been involved in its internal attacks and defenses. This is what led to the rather amusing remark from Focht to myself being a "Legion puppet", something we joke about today.

Still, none of these actually happened. I am unsure to the lengths I took to try and have them conducted so cannot give an accurate account of which were denied by whom.


Love

Although love is not in itself part of the dark side, it can create an opening for it to insinuate itself into someones heart. Love is delicate and can be upset by the slightest touch of doubt, anger or jealousy.

During r6 I handed over Wrath to Germania whilst I took command of Fury's military along with Meth. The introduction of races put me offguard totally so I made myself more tactical. Operation Barghest was Meth's work and was essentially a plan to destroy Deus first. When the plan was originally accepted and then declined my enthusiasm was quickly lost for the war as I took on a pessimistic viewpoint of the entire conflict. I fell into inactivity, but still I was unhappy in the way Wrath was being run by Germania. r6 Wrath have fond memories and in time I came to realize that the situations for r5 Wrath and r6 Wrath were different, but at the time I felt as though Germania was ruining the Wrath name so to speak and was quite vocal in my opinions of such.

Where does it fit in? In watching Wrath unable to produce the same results as r5 it caused me pain. It was almost watching a repeat of r4 (although the bounceback for Fury during r6 was most impressive and things never got 'that bad'). The fulfillment of having Wrath was gone and in its place was an aching emptiness.

I made plans to retake Wrath for myself once again, specifically r7 Wrath. To cut that short, my bid was going to be declined by Sid but with Sid not being around and Cryptic placed in charge I got Wrath back for r7.

Although r7 Wrath was hardly as successful as r5 it was not a total disaster and was still better than its competitor. Iliad. That was all that counted.

Jealousy

Noticing the success of Wrath, Legion wanted to recreate such a thing for the latter rounds. Legion needed good recruits, but also needed to clean up the image of VeA being inferior to Wrath. r5 Wrath command was asked questions but I personally did not believe Legion could pull it off. I felt the Wrath structure at the time was only suited to integrate with Fury and would take alot of work to fit into Legion.

But still, there was that niggling doubt that perhaps Legion could it off. This was a threat to Fury and in essence, Wrath. I made attempts to find out as much information about Iliad as possible - I did not wish for it to succeed and if neccessary I would have acted in attempts to sabotage. However, I and many others were correct. Iliad was plagued by many problems and didn't live up to the same success as Wrath. Not that Legion really required it with their success of Dominion, but it was something for me to be proud and smug at.

Final Say

So was Wrath evil? I will leave that up to the readers to decide. I personally do not think so. Whilst many of its acts were ruthless, the majority of its members and command did so without any negative fuelled thoughts. The question should perhaps be changed to whether I am evil? Perhaps. I believe I did things necessary to Wrath's survival and well-being.

I do however believe that the power corrupted me to some extent. I can easily blast into the emotions given above when Fury or Wrath is spoken ill off and my activity since has waned. The sheer effort of Wrath was a major burn out for me which leads me to believe all that raw emotion I put into the project not only made it succeed but came with a price to shatter my future prospects within the game. Ironically enough, this is in parallel to the 'price' of the Dark Side within Star Wars - I 'withered' away after my quick rise to power.

For once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny...

[Illegal]

Originally posted by Lan
jesus christ, i wont read that

I was just pondering on a reply. Well I respect Zhil so I will read it.. Ill get back to you in 30-45 mins (when Im done with the first 30 pages)

[Atul]

nice read, zhil

[Banned]

I have read it, and it's good stuff. Tempted me to do a write-up on similar situations in my own experience. That'd probably end up being about round 6 though, and there's little I hate more than round 6 rehashes.

[Kjeldoran]

I just found a subject to write about on any futury English essays I have to write

I'm at the "aggression" part atm ...

rgds Kj

[Leshy]

Originally posted by Zh|l
many of Fury's greatest players for the latter rounds came from this recruitment project

Well Zhil, as I've said on earlier occasions, I like your writing style a lot, although it's a little too Star Wars for my personal taste. It is, however, an excellent read on Wrath history from the inside, even though I may be somewhat biased in my opinion.

It'd be interesting to see some other opinions on Wrath, possibly from several "rival" HC, if any are still around from that era

[Borric]

I must admit to being a bit shocked to seing my name with such hatred being said. But i was a right bastard back then. Justhope theres no hard feelings anymore Zhil,we all did what we thought was best at the time i guess.

[Hicks]

Nice read Zhil a good few of the bits made me smile as I said on MSN.

[Cryptic]

just for Zhil and old times sake:

one of our(MY) favourite phrases when question on policy or given strategy suggestions by members.

"This is NOT a fkin democracy"








---------------------------
Zhils ex Boss

[Zh|l]

Originally posted by Cryptic
just for Zhil and old times sake:

one of our(MY) favourite phrases when question on policy or given strategy suggestions by members.

"This is NOT a fkin democracy"








---------------------------
Zhils ex Boss

You will always be more evil than me

I think I used various phrases of that on many occassions, sometimes subtle and sometimes not.

We really need to get together again (you, me, Sid, Ghengis, wolfie, Via etc) for another Fury meet for old times sake. Pass me a pm to where you hang around now net wise.

[Cryptic]

I mostly go by the nick Rmag now adays ( Retard Magnet )

..... usually on quakenet wiv meh cs bum chums - though I still pop onto pa irc / netgamers and sometimes hover around #fury ( though unlikey to speak there like everybody else )

[Illegal]

Its a good read. Even if I spent half of R5 trying to antivouch people in wrath and then run to Legion where they wanted to suck on my stiff ego at the time, I do remember alot of these things.

I wouldent really call Wrath Evil, but the leaders "might" have been a tad powerhungry with a "zero tollerance" attitude. I do however see where you are coming from and its a nice bit of history. Wrath R5 did have alot of skill in it and it did bread some of the most arogant/most cheating players planetarion have ever seen

Good post. (If I seem negative I apologize, but its late and your post takes alot of thinking to comprehend)

Cryptic: That saying might have been good for your ego and a nice way for you to feel superior with your 100k planet, but in the end I dont think it helped Fury alot having leaders who thought the members were there to support them in personal wars.

[Cryptic]

Originally posted by Illegal


Cryptic: That saying might have been good for your ego and a nice way for you to feel superior with your 100k planet, but in the end I dont think it helped Fury alot having leaders who thought the members were there to support them in personal wars.

it was the very essence of fury my dear - without that attitude it would have not been Fury .... and we were relatively very successful
- so I think namby pamby liberal views are best left for our enemies ta

oh, and btw - no Fury 'leader' thought it was about personal wars - if we played that way we wouldn't have got anywhere.
We always put 'Fury' above all - above members and execs alike.
We simply enforced the command structure very rigidly as in a military organisation - we did this simple to avoid getting into debates during a battle following the military models to reasonable sucess.


........ and I believe we did rather well in r7 when I was CEO - obviously my 'personal wars and 100k planet or what ever' didn't hamper the troups too badly ..... boy

[Illegal]

Originally posted by Illegal
Wrath R5 did have alot of skill in it and it did bread some of the most arogant/most cheating players planetarion have ever seen

Dident intend ot use the word cheating there, word I was looking for was "skilled".

My bad

[Borric]

Originally posted by Cryptic
I mostly go by the nick Rmag now adays ( Retard Magnet )

..... usually on quakenet wiv meh cs bum chums - though I still pop onto pa irc / netgamers and sometimes hover around #fury ( though unlikey to speak there like everybody else )

holy crap its that bumraper Cryptic

[Illegal]

Originally posted by Cryptic
it was the very essence of fury my dear - without that attitude it would have not been Fury .... and we were relatively very successful
- so I think namby pamby liberal views are best left for our enemies ta

Just checking to see if there were still balls attached to that ego

Originally posted by Cryptic

oh, and btw - no Fury 'leader' thought it was about personal wars - if we played that way we wouldn't have got anywhere.
We always put 'Fury' above all - above members and execs alike.
We simply enforced the command structure very rigidly as in a military organisation - we did this simple to avoid getting into debates during a battle following the military models to reasonable sucess.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Cryptic

........ and I believe we did rather well in r7 when I was CEO - obviously my 'personal wars and 100k planet or what ever' didn't hamper the troups too badly ..... boy

Apart from the close to Civil war and the dissloyal officers and members with fancy positions in whatever the new thing killing Fury would be. But I agree with you, the problem was not really you or any of the other 3 execs attitude. It was due to your absence at times and not noticing how some members used Fury for their own gain.

I think Fury was different before my time. (r4-r8)

[BLACK_OPPS]

fcking hell who let zhil out of his box

[Cryptic]

Originally posted by BLACK_OPPS
fcking hell who let zhil out of his box

.... /me changes his pitch up



...../me smacks his Lenin up

[Chaos]

hmm.. may I ask the point of this thread?

I started reading the first "page" and then ended scrolling faster and faster while reading.. sorry. I just didn't have the patience to read a Huge "how great Wrath was" post.

if that all this thread is? a "hail to me and my ally" thread?

it should have been posted on a webpage somewhere. for ppl with special interest to read.

[Zh|l]

Originally posted by Chaos
hmm.. may I ask the point of this thread?

I started reading the first "page" and then ended scrolling faster and faster while reading.. sorry. I just didn't have the patience to read a Huge "how great Wrath was" post.

if that all this thread is? a "hail to me and my ally" thread?

it should have been posted on a webpage somewhere. for ppl with special interest to read.

Apart from near the start where I state it was the best recruitment wing for Fury (which it was because Fury Prov didnt match it in the slightest) it isnt anything of the sort.

It explains some of my thoughts and such during my 'rule' of Wrath and provided a discussion to how alliances can be called evil. (The motivations behind an alliances actions.)

Obviously you didn't read it, so I also wonder why you bothered to post a reply in the first place. If you didnt want to read it, the title of the thread gave a good clue that it involved Wrath. The reason I wrote about Wrath is because of my experience in it and was able to directly relate it to the topic of "evil alliances."

Sorry you can't understand this, perhaps you need 'special help' in reading.

[BLACK_OPPS]

Originally posted by Cryptic
.... /me changes his pitch up



...../me smacks his Lenin up

get back to wacking Via

[JonnyBGood]

This thread is completely relevant to AD and not only tolerated but encouraged. There are few enough alliance discussions as it is. (In response to whoever claimed it was pointless above).

[BDB]

good read zhil few things

LEGION WAS MORE EVIL THAN FURY

warth whould not have even come close to going any where near legion in rnd 5 u whould have got twated in 3 days max with fury backing maybe a week

and tbh u lind of missed the point of illiad illiad was flack for us nothing more well that what it was suposed to be set up as and did a very good job of it the better players where usposed to be moved over to legion rather quick wile letting the noobs who nwated the legion name sit there and die wile we used them for flack
only problem that came up was slinkee who was put as HC decied she wnated to make an allince out of it and well all hell broke lose still the best 2 players to come from illiad where SNOW and BONG

[Kileman]

I miss Fury

And R4 Fury-prov gave Fury some of the most resilient mother f^^kers in the game. If you can handle being in the crappiest recruitment wing of an alliance that is getting its ass completely smashed and still play on.... that has to say something for your character and ability

Wrath in R7 was leet. Fury wouldnt have won R7 without it.

It also made a significant contribution to the plotting against DTA and ultimately Legion. Muhahahhahahhaahahahaha!!!!
________
Life Saber

[Kileman]

Originally posted by Cryptic
........ and I believe we did rather well in r7 when I was CEO - obviously my 'personal wars and 100k planet or what ever' didn't hamper the troups too badly ..... boy

Although to some extent I wouldnt attibute as much of our success to your "CEOing" although a good sign of leadership is when you dont rely on your CEO for direction or for *everything*, Fury basically ran itself without you (or sid or any CEO), which atests to its success... as since R4 Fury tried to not be so reliant on ONE person, and with the execs and MO's etc, Fury in many respects didnt "need" a CEO.
________
MERCEDES-BENZ M123 ENGINE SPECIFICATIONS

[Zh|l]

Originally posted by BDB
good read zhil few things

LEGION WAS MORE EVIL THAN FURY

Possibly but I can't begin to even speak for all the plots and such Fury had and the motives behind its decisions. That would require Sid

Originally posted by BDB

warth whould not have even come close to going any where near legion in rnd 5 u whould have got twated in 3 days max with fury backing maybe a week

Fury/Wrath together was easily a match for Legion in terms of sheer firepower. There might not have been a winner of this war, but you are right that Wrath would have got twatted alone vs Legion. I would never have gone that route though It really depends on when it would have kicked off also - a Fury/Wrath joining in on Legion when the majority of the universe was anti-Legion at the time could have tipped the scales in Fury's favour especially without Elysium on your side. But its all moot. Legion was good, but Fury was equal to Legion once Wrath was set up.

Originally posted by BDB

and tbh u lind of missed the point of illiad illiad was flack for us nothing more well that what it was suposed to be set up as and did a very good job of it the better players where usposed to be moved over to legion rather quick wile letting the noobs who nwated the legion name sit there and die wile we used them for flack
only problem that came up was slinkee who was put as HC decied she wnated to make an allince out of it and well all hell broke lose still the best 2 players to come from illiad where SNOW and BONG

I probably did miss the point, but then so did Legion HC at the time at a guess. It was supposed to be a Legion version of Wrath originally to improve upon VeA and this is what its original command was supposed to be doing. As far as I know, Iliad showed its first sign of problems when there was some debate over BD/Slinkee using Iliad members to fill up attacks which angered other elements of Iliad command. I could be wrong, but I distinctly remember that as being key.

I agree that Iliad was treated as flak in the end at least. This probably helps your "Legion was more evil" arguement though. Damn it.

[BDB]

Originally posted by Zh|l
Possibly but I can't begin to even speak for all the plots and such Fury had and the motives behind its decisions. That would require Sid



Fury/Wrath together was easily a match for Legion in terms of sheer firepower. There might not have been a winner of this war, but you are right that Wrath would have got twatted alone vs Legion. I would never have gone that route though It really depends on when it would have kicked off also - a Fury/Wrath joining in on Legion when the majority of the universe was anti-Legion at the time could have tipped the scales in Fury's favour especially without Elysium on your side. But its all moot. Legion was good, but Fury was equal to Legion once Wrath was set up.



I probably did miss the point, but then so did Legion HC at the time at a guess. It was supposed to be a Legion version of Wrath originally to improve upon VeA and this is what its original command was supposed to be doing. As far as I know, Iliad showed its first sign of problems when there was some debate over BD/Slinkee using Iliad members to fill up attacks which angered other elements of Iliad command. I could be wrong, but I distinctly remember that as being key.

I agree that Iliad was treated as flak in the end at least. This probably helps your "Legion was more evil" arguement though. Damn it.

at the end nah more so the start we traed them as flack

so yes LEGION EVIL > FURY EVIL

tbh i think both allinces wnated a shot at each othert just to see what whould happen imo in rnd 5 fury/warth vs LEGION i think legion whould have won hands down

just imo ofc

[Cryptic]

Originally posted by Kileman
Although to some extent I wouldnt attibute as much of our success to your "CEOing" although a good sign of leadership is when you dont rely on your CEO for direction or for *everything*, Fury basically ran itself without you (or sid or any CEO), which atests to its success... as since R4 Fury tried to not be so reliant on ONE person, and with the execs and MO's etc, Fury in many respects didnt "need" a CEO.

Tbh - you wouldn't have a clue what exactly was and was not done behind the scenes - or the amount of time execs and ceo's spent doing it....... since your were never at the postion or level to have any envolvement.

The day to day running was left often to basic level operations - but as for direction that was watched and steered.
All my concerns were directed to and at the execs of fury and the HC's of other alliances.
Hence why I had no interaction with you or other peons on a daily basis.

[MAdnRisKy]

Originally posted by Cryptic
basically Kileman, suck my C0CK!

[SpazMonster]

Originally posted by Kileman
Although to some extent I wouldnt attibute as much of our success to your "CEOing" although a good sign of leadership is when you dont rely on your CEO for direction or for *everything*, Fury basically ran itself without you (or sid or any CEO), which atests to its success... as since R4 Fury tried to not be so reliant on ONE person, and with the execs and MO's etc, Fury in many respects didnt "need" a CEO.

You know, that's a sign of good management. Successfull delegation, competant command, members etc etc.

[Kileman]

Originally posted by Cryptic
Tbh - you wouldn't have a clue what exactly was and was not done behind the scenes - or the amount of time execs and ceo's spent doing it....... since your were never at the postion or level to have any envolvement.

The day to day running was left often to basic level operations - but as for direction that was watched and steered.
All my concerns were directed to and at the execs of fury and the HC's of other alliances.
Hence why I had no interaction with you or other peons on a daily basis.

Much in the way you had no clue what was happening in regards to the 'behind the scene' galaxy and planet politics But all were dependent on the success of each other, and an intricate part to Furys success.
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Yamaha xs400 history

[Kileman]

Originally posted by SpazMonster
You know, that's a sign of good management. Successfull delegation, competant command, members etc etc.

Yes, which is why I said "although a good sign of leadership is when you dont rely on your CEO for direction"

@_@
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COLORADO DISPENSARY

[BDB]

Originally posted by Kileman
Much in the way you had no clue what was happening in regards to the 'behind the scene' galaxy and planet politics But all were dependent on the success of each other.

yea u mean like he had no clue u where a twat ****er and relised the only way u where gonna win the round was 1 have others delated oh and lets not mention your other accts as well that whould be bad right ....

i always thoght good of cryptic as far as an exec i think he did a dam good job to be he did not know what type of scume bag u where or maybe he whould have booted u from fury and left u to be roided to the ground

[Kileman]

Originally posted by BDB
yea u mean like he had no clue u where a twat ****er and relised the only way u where gonna win the round was 1 have others delated oh and lets not mention your other accts as well that whould be bad right ....

i always thoght good of cryptic as far as an exec i think he did a dam good job to be he did not know what type of scume bag u where or maybe he whould have booted u from fury and left u to be roided to the ground

lol

what other accounts were these? : )

sour grapes again BDB? still upset about r7 and 8?
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Mz Engine

[BDB]

Originally posted by Kileman
Much in the way you had no clue what was happening in regards to the 'behind the scene' galaxy and planet politics But all were dependent on the success of each other, and an intricate part to Furys success.

like it or not kile what cryptic did was far more important than what lil fag behind the scenes deals u where problly makeing

and tbh u followed any ways what was laid down by fury/legion command if not i am sure some one whould have had your ass thrown

[BDB]

Originally posted by Kileman
lol

what other accounts were these? : )

sour grapes again BDB? still upset about r7 and 8?

ah yes guess u forget after time right

rnd 7 yes i am rnd 8 **** knows what your tlaking about if i rember right we ****ed the **** out of u and did dam good fro are selfs rnd 8

[Hala]

you both suck...
Good thread Zhil|, though tbh I think thats taking PA a bit seriously when you hold massive long grudges against people. Not that I can claim to be devoid of emotions but I've always been amazed that people can build there rage up over an online strategy game into something which almost seems to consume them. Perhaps its more of a reflection on how powerful a drug PA can be at times.

[Zh|l]

Originally posted by BDB
at the end nah more so the start we traed them as flack

so yes LEGION EVIL > FURY EVIL

tbh i think both allinces wnated a shot at each othert just to see what whould happen imo in rnd 5 fury/warth vs LEGION i think legion whould have won hands down

just imo ofc

Again without Sid I can't make any case about that.

r5 would have been a tough one, it depends when in r5 really. Legion certainly looked stronger, but in reality it didnt seem stronger. Again from what I saw. It was close though, far too close which is why nothing ever happened.

Anyway, we can at least both congratulates ourselves on a good round for both our alliances then. At least we both won and had our fun that round.

[Kileman]

Originally posted by BDB
ah yes guess u forget after time right

rnd 7 yes i am rnd 8 **** knows what your tlaking about if i rember right we ****ed the **** out of u and did dam good fro are selfs rnd 8

I believe we ****** the **** out of each other But you guys did awfully good taking out my farm/scan planet But it was still big enough to have mundo farm it

But thats aside from the point.... and we shouldnt hijack Zhils thread any further...

Lets just say we are both evil :>
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Honda H5 Transmission Specifications

[BDB]

Originally posted by Kileman
I believe we ****** the **** out of each other But you guys did awfully good taking out my farm/scan planet But it was still big enough to have mundo farm it

But thats aside from the point.... and we shouldnt hijack Zhils thread any further...

Lets just say we are both evil :>

ok i guess i can live with that back to zhils tread

plus ill go have fun on the other thread about BG's as i am being told there was a secrate allince in rnd 3 that swang the rnd away from LEGION and it was not WP now i wait to see

[K-W]

Originally posted by Illegal

Apart from the close to Civil war and the dissloyal officers and members with fancy positions in whatever the new thing killing Fury would be. But I agree with you, the problem was not really you or any of the other 3 execs attitude. It was due to your absence at times and not noticing how some members used Fury for their own gain.

The biggest problem in Fury rd 7 was that alot of members made up thier mind before the round started that Fury was going downhill and carried that attitude into things, along with an overall decentralization that started rounds before but came to a head. With people far more socially active in thier BG's and gals etc it made Fury ripe for lots of rumors and splintering.

[K-W]

Originally posted by BDB

tbh i think both allinces wnated a shot at each othert just to see what whould happen imo in rnd 5 fury/warth vs LEGION i think legion whould have won hands down

Throwing "hands down" in there pretty much discredits your analysis. A statement that confident lacks credibility

[Cryptic]

Originally posted by Kileman
Much in the way you had no clue what was happening in regards to the 'behind the scene' galaxy and planet politics But all were dependent on the success of each other, and an intricate part to Furys success.

I think you'll find we knew alot more of what was going on than you think.
- People are always either blabbing in general
- people are telling tales on other members
- people are trying to gain postion , power or influence
- people are spying and giving intel out to other groups and alliances ..... and in full circle it came back to us.

We simply can't know everything, but the general gist of things we heard.
What we didn't do was to react in any overt way.
Most of the time we left internal galaxy politics and squables to sort themselves out.
We noted down the plots and schemes and then wieghed up the pros and cons or either dealing with or allowing to go unpunished.
Sometimes it would be a case of making sure that info was leaked - defence was screwed up etc.
Other times it was decided it was simply to damaging to deal with - and subtly encouraged or backed without the players realising.
Ie the direction of the macro politics slanted to damage limit - or in the best of cases gain from what would have been a severe issue internally or with allies.

.......... thats how we tried to run things in general.

like any soldier - you and the majority of fury were never party to this in any global way.
So I would not expect you to be knowlegible on the subject.
There are alot of parts of playing PA and its politics that a great majority of players never experienced - or in alot of cases were aware of.
In fact - for the most part a certain amount of players were playing a complety different planetarion to the rest. For example, in the game I played I didn't even need a planet.

[Bootlord]

Originally posted by Zh|l
the whole story

what can i say? I agree with the whole story. I was a part of Wrath R5. Tbh is has been one of my best rounds galwise. The funniest thing is we started as a NOCEX galaxy with 3 fury's in it. I was the first to join wrath. Later also Jent and Smasher joined in. I have nothing but respect the way wrath was reigned and how it performed. Glad to have been a part of it

[Anakin]

Great read Zh|l ... not so sure Fury + Wrath would have taken Legion , but certainly Wrath > Iliad in a major way heh.

btw... Xanadu r5 >* @ been evil... heh.

Anyway... from one fallen jedi to another *wink*, well played.

[Morden]

Originally posted by Kileman

Wrath in R7 was leet. Fury wouldnt have won R7 without it.

It also made a significant contribution to the plotting against DTA and ultimately Legion. Muhahahhahahhaahahahaha!!!!

Well from my view, Wrath r6 was probably the biggest determining factor of Fury's success in r7, wrath in r7 wasnt working nearly as well for obvious reasons, such as how short staffed we were as most of our Officers were doing work for Fury leaving only 1 active Pure Wrath Mo(Kileman) then you come to the charactor type of most of the r7 wrath, they were damned good people and players, and they knew it, coupled with the fact that we won, kinda screwed the pooch unity wise, we never managed to get the bond of the members up to the same point we had done in r5 and r6.

As for Wrath r6, we had a whale of a time, even when we were losing we were still defending relentlessly, the Command team did an excellent job keeping everything together under difficult circumstances, and without wrath keeping going regardless of how bad things got, I dont think Fury would have been able to come back or to win r7, mainly due to the attitude of the r6 wrath, you ask them to send to X, they send even if they know they could lose there fleet in the defence of another member, they trusted the MO's inplicetly, there was none of this "I need my ships for my attack" or "I want to see the status so I know im not suiciding" and with this attitude wrath did over time increase its coverage to close to 90% most days, with an average of 60% of the active memberbase launching each day sometimes more.

This attitude which was passed onto the r7 Fury was instrumental In fury's success, most of the top defenders in r7 came from the core of wrath r6.

anyways thats my view.

[HobbieRogue4]

The "Fury vs. Legion" debate will stand the test of time, possibly longer than anyone who actually was a member of either alliance. Knights of the Old Republic as it were...

Regarding Legion's recruitment/junior alliances, here's how I rate them (being involved in all except for CpV):

CpV - Served its purpose of containing many members, went through "cutting the fat," and finally having its best members absorbed directly into Legion Round 2 (along with a few minor alliances).

FoL - Being a member, I'm proud of it to this day. At the time, it was highly successful, especially in member activity. Much of this was due to having a command staff superb at the time (Rampage, EvilCEO, Xanthes, and WarBat) and highly dedicated members (Chinese for example). What remained of it was absorbed into Round 4's Dominion.

Dominion - Contained one of the most "talent consoldated" groups I've ever seen in a recruitment alliance. Wrath Round 5 is the only thing comparable in my eyes, member for member. Credit is due to the likes of Petru and Aviendha, who brought a good portion of NewDawn and also appointed dedicated Dominion leadership in developing a tight community bond; the remnants of that group ultimately becoming Titans.

VeA Round 4 - Absolutely the worst project ever undertaken, mismanaged, and disadvantaged group of leaders, members, etc. ever. Ever. Ever. Those responsible for the problems that plagued it know who they are.

VeA Tail end of Round 4 throughout Rounds 5 & 6 - Improved, but lost focus at times. Merely a tool used to acquire new blood into Legion, but more as a way to better manage the influx of Legion-affiliated players during rounds 4 and 5.

Iliad - Formed in Round 6 to bring about an improvement to the old recruitment system and provide a junior alliance "testing ground" for potential Legion recruits. Probably second only to the earliest VeA in lack of actual strength. Improved considerably towards the end of Round 6, but tapered off when it was clear among inner-circle command that Legion would not continue in Planetarion after Round 7.

As much as I'd rather not be, I'd end up being a Jedi Knight rather than a Dark Jedi. :/

Zhil, highly entertaining read.

[Fifth_teletubbie]

Originally posted by Morden
mainly due to the attitude of the r6 wrath, you ask them to send to X, they send even if they know they could lose there fleet in the defence of another member, they trusted the MO's inplicetly, there was none of this "I need my ships for my attack" or "I want to see the status so I know im not suiciding

This is imho the most important thing you need to have a well-functioning alliance, the correct attitude.
Members with the correct attitude are worth their weight in gold.

Apart from its direct implications in gameterms, having a good/bad attitude in your members seems to feed upon itself, increasing its effects for better or worse.
When I organized defence, the ones that were 'difficult' and need to be soothed and want to see scans etc somehow always stayed stuck in my brain, and I'd remember it when they needed def themselves. They'd get it if freely available, but when choices needed to be made they were pretty low on the priority list.
Conversely, for those that responded to 'DE killers, eta7, c23' with nothing more than ' <ships> coords?' I always tried to put in the extra mile and gather def from alternative resources if required to make sure they wouldnt lose a ship nor roid.


Ps. nice read Zhil

[hydridia]

one of the best written posts ive read on these boards nice one zhil

[Jykke]

Originally posted by Zh|l
Needless to say more officers were promoted
and a new Executive was made (the rather unknown but brilliant guy who went
under the nick known as WonderBra and was one of the original Esthar in Fury.)

Most of the Esthar people were rather unknown outside the 'phoenix',
was a basicly well working plan to dominate the sectors we played in (r4,5,6,9)
because people had little idea whom they were playing with, ie in r6 the let lose
rumor of Sid being with us (the top 10 Wrath planet) was a good sign
why people always knew too late..



as whole -
very interesting writting Zhil even as im not a huge star wars fan, this is what AD needs more
As always, the little nostalgia feeling is great, those times are are
gone now but always gives me a smile to read about them.